Subway

[BigTone]

I like you Tone, I really do - but why do all the Loons have to be Allahs loons?

 

And with that - bon chance in Saudi. Enjoy your year.

 

What we need to understand is that the world is full of Loons of all religions. As an example in the Bible Belt of America the KKK are not exactly boy scouts

 

Another example is the Memorial Ground......................I rest my case your Honour.

 

Thank you for your kind wishes.

 

I must now find a team in Riyadh to support in addition to my beloved.

 

The bad news is my joke thread will continue

[Nibbler]

 

We don't want to be informed about Islam 

And that says it all. Why educate yourself when you can just rant and shout ill conceived nonsense with no discernible point beyond - But I don't like it Waaaaah.  Grow up, most Muslims are just ordinary people like the rest of us, trying to get by and be left alone by the extremists (on all sides). The Quilliam group have their critics which is as it should be but they make an effort and of course they entirely falsify your argument that Muslims don't speak out about extremism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Husain

 

But hey why let the facts get in the way of your prejudice.

[richwwtk]

What I don't quite understand is how a "wave of Muslims intent on forcing Sharia Law onto all of us" becomes "A tiny minority of only 3%" according to the argument people are trying to win.

 

I've not lived in a city for quite a few years (horrible, smelly places) but the last time I did it was in a mainly Muslim area of East London (Leytonstone) and the only trouble I ever had from anybody was a white guy living opposite who accused me of being a copper and spying on him merely because I wore a shirt to work! Apart from that it was all pretty quiet and most people just kept themselves to themselves just the same as everywhere else I've lived.

 

Maybe if people just all tried to get along, then the need for 'extremism' would go away and this forum would be a much more pleasant place to visit, rather than having to put up with spiels of drivel about how the country is going to the dogs because people who believe in a slightly different version of a mystical being to some of the people already here are moving in.

 

On the bright side, maybe the hordes of Muslims will drag the country so far down the pan that it will no longer be an attractive option for the hordes of East Europeans we've being invaded by. Thank god that EU rules will allow us all to go and move to Poland or Bulgaria to get away from it. Just be careful where you place your vote next week, because if UKIP get in not even that option will be available to us!

[phantom]

 

I've not lived in a city for quite a few years

 

To me this has gained more profile in the past few years - maybe Leytonstone may not be so accomodating today?

[Davros]

[Davros]

[TRL]

[Nibbler]

I'm not having a pop at you personally here, but a belief system based on many many interpretations, it is time people got real and understood just how bloody ridiculous it is.

That's a different argument though. I'm an atheist but I don't really see that Islam is any worse than the other Abrahamic religions, they all share a common root after all. The Old Testament is full of terrible genocidal and misogynist violence and plenty of modern day Christians interpret the Bible to suit their political agenda. 

[TRL]

That's a different argument though. I'm an atheist but I don't really see that Islam is any worse than the other Abrahamic religions, they all share a common root after all. The Old Testament is full of terrible genocidal and misogynist violence and plenty of modern day Christians interpret the Bible to suit their political agenda. 

I did say the sooner it is gone, along with all other religions, they are all as bad as one another,, interpreted, rewritten and altered for the population and politics of the day.  Yet people bizarrely still follow them, an interpret them, into a meaning that they think is right!  I would just not make sense in any other walk of life, to go through life believing rewritten twaddle!

 

I think it is worse though, not many other religions you can be killed for leaving,or joining another religion... unless of course that is to be interpreted differently as well

[Davros]

[Davros]

Only a racist would call people from Sudan, Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Brunei and Pakistan etc etc  "backward and uneducated".

 

Only an idiot would make that supposition from what I wrote, however you can call me liar again if you like.  Like a child when faced with facts you call people liars, the number of things I have said that you have twisted to mean something else I have lost count.

 

Is there something missing in your life?

[TRL]

[Nibbler]

 

I think it is worse though, not many other religions you can be killed for leaving,or joining another religion... unless of course that is to be interpreted differently as well

Apostasy and heresy are very much part of Christianity and the penalty is death - usually by stoning. Most of these barbaric laws and penalties come from the Old Testament you know, the OT is part of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I'm not sure exactly how many people the Inquisition burned for heresy and apostasy but it's substantial and of course the Reformation and Counter Reformation burned a fair few more here. If you're interested have a look at the history of the Cathars in France - Christianity in its full glory. Of course Christians tend to ignore the laws of the OT these days, there's no reason to believe Islam won;t do the same.

[Aizoon]

Apostasy and heresy are very much part of Christianity and the penalty is death - usually by stoning. Most of these barbaric laws and penalties come from the Old Testament you know, the OT is part of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I'm not sure exactly how many people the Inquisition burned for heresy and apostasy but it's substantial and of course the Reformation and Counter Reformation burned a fair few more here. If you're interested have a look at the history of the Cathars in France - Christianity in its full glory. Of course Christians tend to ignore the laws of the OT these days, there's no reason to believe Islam won;t do the same.

 

The difference being that the Christians have stopped doing it, and the Muslims haven't.

[chipdawg]

Apostasy and heresy are very much part of Christianity and the penalty is death - usually by stoning. Most of these barbaric laws and penalties come from the Old Testament you know, the OT is part of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I'm not sure exactly how many people the Inquisition burned for heresy and apostasy but it's substantial and of course the Reformation and Counter Reformation burned a fair few more here. If you're interested have a look at the history of the Cathars in France - Christianity in its full glory. Of course Christians tend to ignore the laws of the OT these days, there's no reason to believe Islam won;t do the same.

I would agree that the Cathars and the Albigensian Crusade is the perfect example of the horrors or Christianity. If you want to know more, there's a fascinating book called 'The Perfect Heresy' which chronicles it. However, we do need to remember that it's over 800 years since that took place and it was as much a product of the politics of Medieval Europe as it was religion. It may be valid to argue that as Islam is in effect 400 years younger than Christianity, it is still prone to commit the atrocities that Christianity committed 400 years ago, but it would probably take one hell of a post-doctoral thesis to get anywhere near proving that

[Nibbler]

The difference being that the Christians have stopped doing it, and the Muslims haven't.

That was kind of my point, though there are some pretty scary Christians around.

[Nibbler]

...but it would probably take one hell of a post-doctoral thesis to get anywhere near proving that

Perhaps you should write a grant proposal  But you make the point that the Cathar persecution was as much about politics and power as it was about religion. I agree, ditto the Reformation. Isn't it possible that the current problem with extremist Islam is about politics as well and not religion per se? 

 

The book looks interesting, I may take a look.

[TRL]

Apostasy and heresy are very much part of Christianity and the penalty is death - usually by stoning. Most of these barbaric laws and penalties come from the Old Testament you know, the OT is part of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I'm not sure exactly how many people the Inquisition burned for heresy and apostasy but it's substantial and of course the Reformation and Counter Reformation burned a fair few more here. If you're interested have a look at the history of the Cathars in France - Christianity in its full glory. Of course Christians tend to ignore the laws of the OT these days, there's no reason to believe Islam won;t do the same.

I know this. Along with spit roasting babies on the crusades etc etc. Difference is, it stopped. In many Muslim countries just by leaving your religion or joining another you are on a death sentence. I am purposely leaving out fundamentalist killings now, just the bare bones of a unforgiving religion. If anyone can point to another religion that does this in 2014 I'd be interested to know.

[Eddie Hitler]

I know this. Along with spit roasting babies on the crusades etc etc. Difference is, it stopped. In many Muslim countries just by leaving your religion or joining another you are on a death sentence. I am purposely leaving out fundamentalist killings now, just the bare bones of a unforgiving religion. If anyone can point to another religion that does this in 2014 I'd be interested to know.

 

Scientology comes closest IMO. 

 

But bad as it Scientology does not inspire its adherents to go round killing people at random in its name.

[chipdawg]

Perhaps you should write a grant proposal But you make the point that the Cathar persecution was as much about politics and power as it was about religion. I agree, ditto the Reformation. Isn't it possible that the current problem with extremist Islam is about politics as well and not religion per se?

The book looks interesting, I may take a look.

I think your final point is a fine one to make

And as for the thesis proposal, I should have added "and a bigger brain than mine!"

[richwwtk]

Of course all these atrocities carried out in the name of religion are actually about politics and power. There is no religion in the world that would last hundreds of years if some of the things carried out in it's name were part of it's doctrine.

 

If the laws of Islam were as twisted and cruel as they are made out to be and carried out uniformly across the Muslim world then people would have rebelled and it would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

 

The point of any religion is to take power, control the masses and establish some kind of peaceful existence that keeps the people at the top in power. Executing people for minor infringements is never going to work, as many dictators across the world have discovered to their peril.

 

Whilst I am not religious, I accept that the moral compass of any group of people is initially set by the religion predominant in the region. Christian, Muslim, Hindu.....whatever the religion is, the one thing they all have in common is that they are generally peaceful and fair.

 

You will always get people twisting these religions to their own means, and it tends to happen in the less developed countries, hence the death penalty for apostasy being handed out in Sudan, probably by a local court controlled by the people in power in that area trying to use scare tactics that have always failed in the long run in the past. The very fact that it is being reported in the media is also proof that it really is not the norm for any form of Islamic law.

[Davros]

The difference being that the Christians have stopped doing it, and the Muslims haven't.

its ok to use Africa and its many problems to bash Muslims but when we talk in Christian terms Africa its issues disappear ? I raise you the death penalty in Christian countries for homosexuals, and equally other crazy laws.

[TRL]

its ok to use Africa and its many problems to bash Muslims but when we talk in Christian terms Africa and its issues disappear ? I raise you death penalty in Christian countries for homosexuals, and equally other crazy laws.

Take a look at this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country

 

Take a look at what you can be put to death for, then come back an try and defend it.  I dare you

[Davros]

[TRL]

[Paddy31]

Yes - religion.

And looking at your murdering raping paedophilic worshiping one - I'm bloody glad.

 

Funny thing is  - when pretty much everyone on this forum is challenging you to defend the atrocities of Muslims - you can't.

 

Because there is no defence.

 

I find it impossible to believe that with your extensive alleged work history, and your plethora of supposed qualifications, you believe all this bollox.

 

You have been challenged by multiple posters. Defend the rapes, paedophilia, child-abductions and murders carried out under the instruction of the highest legal authorities in most Muslim countries.

 

You don't , and prefer to call them all "backward".

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan and Brunei - all backward peoples?

 

I'd be called a racist if I said that.

 

Debate all this with your alleged African wife, or ask the middle class Indian Muslim neighbour you supposedly have, and get back to us.

Or call up your ex-army chums.

I'm sure a white lefty middle class wet liberal like you will fill us in on how we are all missing the "peace" from the Religion of hate.

 

Pretty much the whole forum has called you out. Over to you Dhimmi. Davros.

This kind of abuse of another person is disgusting.

 

SX225 - you should be ashamed of yourself. This is simply vile. You are abusing an actual person here.

 

I am reporting this post .

[richwwtk]

SX225 -

 

All he is doing is trying to explain that the atrocities being carried out are not typical of Muslim culture, which they are patently not. Nowhere does he try and defend that behaviour, in fact he actively condemns it, yet you refuse to see this and instead carry on with your hate filled tirades against him. In my minds eye I see you red in the face with rage spraying spittle all over the screen as you type. You claim to have the majority of the forum behind you, but in reality you are making yourself look a fool.

 

Davros is obviously a reasonable person who happens to be a Muslim. You are upset that an apparently intelligent person can believe in God, that is the case for intelligent people the world over, though not including myself, I wouldn't dare call myself intelligent nor believe in any God (Bob Taylor excepted).

 

I seem to remember you defending the actions of football hooligans in past posts, is that the reasonable behaviour of an intelligent person?

[TRL]

SX225 -

 

All he is doing is trying to explain that the atrocities being carried out are not typical of Muslim culture, which they are patently not. Nowhere does he try and defend that behaviour, in fact he actively condemns it, yet you refuse to see this and instead carry on with your hate filled tirades against him. In my minds eye I see you red in the face with rage spraying spittle all over the screen as you type. You claim to have the majority of the forum behind you, but in reality you are making yourself look a fool.

 

Davros is obviously a reasonable person who happens to be a Muslim. You are upset that an apparently intelligent person can believe in God, that is the case for intelligent people the world over, though not including myself, I wouldn't dare call myself intelligent nor believe in any God (Bob Taylor excepted).

 

I seem to remember you defending the actions of football hooligans in past posts, is that the reasonable behaviour of an intelligent person?

Trouble is, it is a typical Muslim Culture

 

Note the Countries below, these have been the very centre of the Islamic world, as it has spread out across the world, other countries have become Islamic, but not taken on such Brutal laws.  Islam may have a gentle side, but at its core is a hate for those turning their back on Islam, a hate of Homosexuals.  yes people hate Homosexuals, religions have a bad outlook on homosexuals, but none, other than Islamic countries push out death by law!  That is all I need to know about Islam, I care not about the gentle undertones that westernised Muslims try to bring to the table, hell they may not even agree, as Davros suggests with what these countries do, but wake up, this is Islam, This is at the centre of Islam that this is happening, not the nice westernised Islam that Davros seems to be suggesting is the real Islam.  

 

If Davros and other Westernised Muslims felt so detached from the real Islam, then they would not be going to places like mecca, and would be splitting from true Islam and its brutal culture in it's traditional home.  Or marching on mass to mecca, and protesting for change. But i would have thought this may have a bad outcome if this happened.

 

Anyway here is the list of countries, I went searching for countries that kill for crimes that hurt no one.....  i couldn't find any, other than crackpot north Korea and China, which has death for things like embezzlement, Fraud and Arson.

 

Afghanistan Death for Homosexuality Apostasy

Bangladesh Death penalty for Sodomy

Brunei  I won't mention as he has just changed the laws, but you know what has happened

Iran Death penalty for Homosexuality and Apostasy

Pakistan Death for Blasphemy

Qatar Death for Apostasy

Saudi Arabia Death for Apostasy Homosexuality, Atheism, Adultery

Yemen Death for Apostasy, Adultery, Homosexuality

[richwwtk]

Looking through your list TRL, it would appear that whilst most of these countries do indeed have a possible death penalty for the crimes you list, people are very rarely executed for these crimes and it tends to be a theoretical punishment that is discouraged by law. I would be interested if you had examples of where people were actually executed rather than just threatened with it though.

 

On the other hand, shouldn't we be getting more concerned with China that executes several times more people every single year than the rest of the world put together!

[Davros]