Subway

[And Its Smith]

Some is, just like some meat is stunned in normal abattoirs, many abattoirs regularly mistreat animals.  

 

What  if Religion offends me and I do not want to eat Blessed meat?  Serious question.

It offends you that someone talks to the animal as he dies? I really cannot understand why it matters.

[TRL]

Then why would you worry about which imaginary deity has been invoked before your meat was killed? Serious question.

 

It would be very difficult to live in this country (or most western societies) and be offended by Christmas presents, Easter eggs and St George's day.

Not really, as you choose to partake in Christmas, Easter etc etc, any foodstuffs geared to it is clearly labelled, so you know what you are buying.  When you are buying meat and it isn't labelled, then the choice has gone.

[TRL]

It offends you that someone talks to the animal as he dies? I really cannot understand why it matters.

No it doesn't offend me, I should have said it was hypothetical, but as people get offended when someone calls their religion backward, then surely people have the right to be offended if their meat is blessed and they are say, a atheist?  And in turn surely the meat should be labelled as halal, as to give such atheist the chance not to buy such meat?

[chipdawg]

_{Most modern factory farming methods are disgusting. I don't like halal, I don't like kosher, I don't like battery farming either.}

_{I think it is a positive thing that people are starting to reject the dominance of halal meat. Liberal left types should be calling for a total ban on non-stunned animal slaughter - not pandering to some backward religion.}

But can you gaurantee that all the meat you eat is slaughtered in the most humane way possible, halal or not? I can't so I try not to criticise

One thing that has struck me though is that the "85% of halal is stunned" figure seems to be a badge of pride, when it still means that thousands of animals every year are being needlessly put through a painful death. I'd apply the same logic to any cruel slaughter, I just don't have the stats!

[chipdawg]

I've never been. Would you recommend it for a family trip? Kids are 5 and 7

I don't have kids so can't comment, but there's a beach and a theme park on underground routes. It's prob a little high culture/bar culture for young kids for an extended trip, but you could fill a few days for sure

[Cambridge Batch Red]

What you said is offensive. Calling someone's religion "backward" is insulting. I'm sure you didn't mean to be rude and simply dislike animal cruelty. You may consider all religions to be out dated in a modern society, but the way you have phrased your post is not making that point.

All religions, including ones that are enlightened or backward should be scrutinised in the same light. That does not mean that all Religions are the same, they do not have some sort moral equivalence. Religions espousing inhumane treatment of animals, children, women or gay people should be condemned and have no place in our civilised society.

[And Its Smith]

If you are an atheist then the blessing of meat is someone talking gibberish to an animal. Hardly something that warrants offence.

[Davros]

_{Most modern factory farming methods are disgusting. I don't like halal, I don't like kosher, I don't like battery farming either.}

 

_{I think it is a positive thing that people are starting to reject the dominance of halal meat. Liberal left types should be calling for a total ban on non-stunned animal slaughter - not pandering to some backward religion.}

 

Honest question when was the last time you had a curry?

[TRL]

If you are an atheist then the blessing of meat is someone talking gibberish to an animal. Hardly something that warrants offence.

Who are you to say it is not offensive?  Offence is taken by the individual, not your say so!

 

A person blessing something he she is killing can be just as offensive as calling a religion backwards!

[Cambridge Batch Red]

Honest question when was the last time you had a curry?

Honest answer - day before Easter Sunday with friends - quorn chicken strips - some sort of methi dish.

[chipdawg]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/shocking-hollywood-actually-takes-decisive-action-radical-sharia-laws/

Seems people outside of this little forum have more open minds.

Let Islam gain a hold and Sharia is not far behind. There are some very important people boycotting Brunei - but they must be bigots as well. Especially that homophobe Stephen Fry, right nazi that bloke........

You do know that Brunei has been a culturally Islamic country for hundreds of years don't you? And that as a jungle-covered, oil-rich sultanate on the Island of Borneo it's one of the least comparable countries to the UK you could come up with?

Don't get me wrong; I think it's absolutely right that pressure is being put on the Sultan of Brunei to reverse laws (almost all of which already applied to 70% of the population) which are barbaric and contrary to every idea of 'human rights' going. But let's not pretend this is part of the creeping rise of Islamification; it's an autocratic ruler making a bad decision for the people he rules. In the name of his religion, yes. But in the name of a religion that has been an intrinsic part of Brunei culture for hundreds of years

As for all the celebrity boycotts, good on them for standing up for what they believe in. It's a shame that they haven't previously boycotted other hotels owned by rulers that enforce Sharia law, such as Fairmont Hotels owned by the Saudi royal family

[Davros]

Honest answer - day before Easter Sunday with friends - quorn chicken strips - some sort of methi dish.

well that confounded my answer that is where the other 15% of non stunned meat mostly ends up. But as you ate quourn are you veggie

[Esmond Million's Bung]

If you are an atheist then the blessing of meat is someone talking gibberish to an animal. Hardly something that warrants offence.

 

What if you are religious but the religious blessing given to the dying animal doesn't meet with your beliefs?, surely unknowingly you could be eating contaminated meat.

 

Just imagine the outrage if muslims were sold kosher killed meat and vice versa?.

 

This is allegedly what the supermarkets and Cameron think.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2623805/Our-shoppers-dont-care-meat-halal-claim-supermarkets-Retailers-face-backlash-saying-unnecessary-label-meats.html

[chipdawg]

So, again, what's your point!

And how do you know people don't boycott other chains? You don't.

Cos it's not like the UK, that makes the sharia shit ok does it?

And that's you lefty ***** in a nutshell - "yay for religions - just not anywhere near me".

It is happening now you muppet - people are being stoned to death for adultery, being in love with a person of the same gender, stealing- yay for Islam! Yay for multiculturalism! Yay for Halal!

If Islam becomes the dominant religion - and your wife plays away, she'll be killed, or whipped or raped by the Sharia "Po-Po" as well. And you can do nothing about it.

Your silly left wing liberal ideology won't protect you, or your wife, or your gay son when Islam is the only game in town.

I'm always reminded of Peter Thachell - holding a "Gays and Muslims Unite" poster in a London east end demo.

The Muz kicked the snot out of him.

This rubbish should not be allowed - period.

And for you, and the rest of your pathetic wishy-washy liberal pseudo-elitist currently in control mob - be very careful what you wish for.

You can't understand why millions of Brits aren't listening to you, and indeed despise you.

Read the newspaper comments.

2p

I do so enjoy our chats SX225. Or the lectures you give, I guess would be a more appropriate term

Please read what I said again. I don't agree with this interpretation of Sharia law anywhere in the world. I did say that previously. What I object to is you scaremongering by saying "if it's happened in Brunei, we're next!" You're the one that brought the example of Brunei's new legal system into a thread about whether or not it's right for Subway to stop stocking pork products in some of their stores, not me

So insult my "wishy-washy" political outlook all you like, feel free to call me a "muppet" and (rather perversely) envisage a future where my wife both cheats on me and is stoned to death for it, but at least read the post your responding to and try to join the debate rather than ranting and insulting those who don't share your world view

I will concede that I probably shouldn't be so harsh on the George Clooney's and Richard Branson's of those world. They may well be boycotting all manner of businesses for all manner of reasons and not crowing about it

[...]

Who, exactly, eats in Subway?

[chipdawg]

You are slowly coming around. No, really, you are.

If you wife cheats on you here - that is a matter for you both.

If she cheats on you in Brunei - she is stoned to death and nothing happens to you. Or the man who bonked your missus.

Don't take this personally. I have nothing against you in the past, now, or in the future.

In fact, I'd like nothing better for both of us and our partners to go out for a meal and put the world to rights.

But Sharia Law is an intrinsic part of Islam - be it in Brunei, Botswana or Boston.

If your wife cheats on you in a sharia law country - she will be stoned to death, and the man who ruined your life will walk away scott free.

Just the same as me and my wife if she did the same.

Sharia law has no place on the planet, let alone pockets of the UK.

Halal is the thin edge.

We both know that - however, you are afraid to admit it.

If you pay for the flights to Sydney it's a deal! I'd give it less than an hour before we've fallen out and the missus has told me off!

But the point is that the outrage caused by Brunei's actions are because of the change in the law, yet it's been a Muslim country for centuries. While Sharia law applies in most Islamic countries, there are many, many interpretations of that- as there have been in countries who's rule of law had been derived from Christian teachings. I'm fairly confident (though couldn't prove it) that if you surveyed British Muslims as to whether they wanted a Brunei-style Sharia system across the whole of the UK, the overwhelming majority would want no such thing. Some would and that should always be a concern, but then again if you surveyed British Christians there would unfortunately be a minority who, for example, would want to make homosexuality illegal. Not to the same extremity as Muslim extremists but there would be a breadth of opinion. I do agree that to an extent the adoption of Halal as the norm is the thin end of the wedge, but it's being driven by commercial concerns rather than religious ones. Could it be hijacked by religious zealots? Perhaps, but I refuse to live my life in fear of what might happen. Perhaps that's niaive, but it's my decision

[chipdawg]

Again - you miss the point.

Nobody is going to do a survey of Muslims in an Islamic country!

England isn't, and hopefully never will be, so the issue is pointless.

But the debate is a valid one.

Oh and if you can't be civil for 60 minutes over a good meal in decent surrounds, then consider my offer withdrawn. We are too polite to ruin a meal over religion.

I never said you would have to come here. If you like, we'll see you guys before the end of the year . You can choose the restaurant - Anywhere in York/Harrogate is fine by us.

You are starting to lose me here. You brought the whole Brunei thing into the debate as a comparison to the UK- a warning of what might happen, a look at what might become of us. I am not and never have contested that such extreme interpretations of Sharia law are not awful. I agree that the debate is valid I just don't think that the context is in this case. You also mis-interpreted my survey point, which again was related to the idea that Brunei and The UK (and specifically their Muslim populations) could be directly compared

I was of course joking; I'm sure we'd have plenty in common away from religion and politics. But with that greatest of respect, that's all we ever interact about and I'm sure we'll both have family and friends we wish to catch up with over Christmas; especially as I'm going to Canada for much of it. I also may have some trouble selling "would you like to go to Harrogate for dinner with a bloke I met on an Internet forum and his wife?" to be honest

PS while you're in Harrogate visit the 'Harrogate Tap' at the railway station. Some friends of mine run it, excellent beer

[Aizoon]

Who, exactly, eats in Subway?

 

People who find it's the only place open that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[Davros]

[Eddie Hitler]

People who find it's the only place open that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

Yep, I discovered in the States many years ago as a decent alternative to the ubiquitous burger in a bun rubbish.

 

Now i would rather go hungry than eat in a Subway.

[Davros]

http://www.dw.de/sharia-in-brunei-the-sultans-new-laws/a-17627008

Well it says it here and in most of the other national newspapers. Guess you're wrong again.

You can live your life by the media or go speak to a scholar its your choice.

[Paddy31]

Can you justify this comment please.

If I called you "backward", would you find it complimentary?

[Nibbler]

It's no wonder every Muslim woman is forced to have 8 kids - there seems to be a need for a lot of virgins lately.

 

I take it that's just some more ridiculous hyperbole? Using Brunei as an example of Islam is like using The Westborough Baptists as an example of Christianity. Unscrupulous autocratic bigots have always used passages in the Bible/Koran/'holy book of choice' to justify their actions, it's not exactly new news. Try reading Wolf Hall if you wan an insight into the horrors of Christianity mixed with politics. The good old CoE hasn't turned out so bad and I don't suppose modern Islam will either.

[Davros]

You're an idiot, you know nothing of what is happening in Nigeria, modern Islam is just as much a target as the girls hence both Muslims and christian girls were taken. Boko harram is an innovation of Islam for the self serving purposes of that group. They have targeted everyone including mainstream Islam.

[BigTone]

How on earth did a post about Subway descend into this  

[Davros]

How is anything I wrote a contradiction to your post.

Where is the outrage?

Post a picture of old Paedo Mo and people get stabbed, churches get burnt and hell comes to Frogtown.

Abduct 200 kids, and auction them off to any old Paedo willing to buy them and the silence from you, and the rest of your faith is astounding.

Where's your thread condemning this?

Or Sharia in Brunei - where homosexuals can be stoned to death now. Legally.

Where is your disgust at the arranged and forced marriage of cousin child-brides?

But no - you'd rather babble on about listening to "scholars" than actually looking at what Islam is doing to human beings because of ridiculous utterings in a stupid book.

Isn't your wife African? She must be disgusted by your complete silence on this forum about the atrocities commited by Muslims every single day in Africa - against Christians and Muslims.

Have a bow and a mutter - Allah wills all this crap eh?

"Modern Islam" - in the mind of white middle class Davros, is letting little Muslim girls go to school in 2014.

Do I need to repeat the year?

Have another bow and mutter. It'll hide the shame.

How dare you make terrorism my responsibility. Its not mine or any other law fairing Muslims, any more so than it is yours.

my wife and i have in our home discussed the aborant nature of boko harram. Mainly because its disgusts us both that they are described as Muslims, there is nothing Islamic about what they are doing, its all about there own political agenda.

I strongly suggest until you properly educate yourself about Islam, you take you're offensive views and stick them where the sun don't shine.

[Nibbler]

 

 

No? Any ideas why Nobbler?

You know I usually find that when people resort to childish insults they've run out of arguments - if they had any in the first place. We all know that some extremist organisations use religion to justify what they do, it's not new news and it's not exactly confined to Islam. The idea that ALL Muslims agree with them is ludicrous, of course there are organisations that oppose extremism - for instance the Quilliam foundation, I've read Ed Hussain's excellent and informative book. Perhaps you should get a bit better informed about Islam and our own history. 

[BigTone]

I strongly suggest until you properly educate yourself about Islam, you take you're offensive views and stick them where the sun don't shine.

 

Yate ?

[BigTone]

 

 

Just like after all those poor little girls were stolen as Islam decreed it was Allahs will.

 

 

No, a complete Nigerian Loony decreed it was Allah's will NOT Islam.

This Loony also killed his own followers in front of their families because they dared to question his violent tendencies.

Sorry, but this isn't Islam and most Muslims I know would be happy for him to receive a bullet between his eyes for the disgrace he brings on each and every one of them in the name of Allah.

Go and live & work in an Islamic country and maybe just maybe you might just change your way of thinking.

[BigTone]

 

 

We don't want to be informed about Islam

 

Maybe in order to understand then you should