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Is there someone providing reports on BCFC matches to the Willem II supporters?

 

I don't speak Dutch nor do I attend many BCFC matches so am not volunteering.  I'd be pleasantly surprised to learn if we had a forum-dwelling, match-attending, dutch-speaking fan who could commit to providing them...but you never know.

 

Also this. http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/165015-friendly-bcfc-willem-ii/?hl=willem

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What's this ? Load of City fans planning to all go over for a match ? Imagine if a few hundred City turned up for a Willem game.

 

They already do, and have been doing so for a while now. Only just coming onto the radar of many in BS3 now

It is safe to say the amazing welcome City fans get in Tilburg is not reciprocated by our club.

Luckilly the Willem fans understand the limitations of our club, and that the amazing rapport between both sets of supporters is the key

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It would not be feasible to attempt to equal that within the ground.

 

Just out of interest, why is it not feasible?

 

I often read comments such as this (from yourself and others), but then I also read comments from DaveL suggesting that any flags are able to be displayed, so just end up being a bit confused.

 

What exactly are the hurdles that have to be overcome? What rules & regs do City have in place to actually stop it from happening?

 

I realise this might come across as a 'challenge' to your statement - it's not meant to be at all, merely intrigued as to the details behind the consistently contradictory posts..

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Just out of interest, why is it not feasible?

I often read comments such as this (from yourself and others), but then I also read comments from DaveL suggesting that any flags are able to be displayed, so just end up being a bit confused.

What exactly are the hurdles that have to be overcome? What rules & regs do City have in place to actually stop it from happening?

I realise this might come across as a 'challenge' to your statement - it's not meant to be at all, merely intrigued as to the details behind the consistently contradictory posts..

Dave L is the clubs liaison and does not "always" cross reference his remarks and evidence base them.

Bristol City have rules, not national regulations that are arbitrary and peculiar to Bristol City and those in charge of safety. Bristol City's "own" rules are different to numerous other clubs e.g Accrington, Aldershot, Aston Villa, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Exeter, Lincoln, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Oxford ... It really all comes down to will, and wanting to be different.

Meanwhile In Tilburg depending on level of match you can drink in your seat, smoke, seats are reserved / unreserved [they do not seem to care], the stewarding is hands off, there is colour everywhere in the stadium. City fans here should go there, or to other Dutch clubs and get educated on how aspects [not everything] of their fandom, their relation between fans and club would improve parts of the FC here.

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Bristol City have rules, not national regulations that are arbitrary and peculiar to Bristol City and its head of safety. Bristol City's "own" rules are different to numerous other clubs e.g Accrington, Aldershot, Aston Villa, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Exeter, Lincoln, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Oxford ... It really all comes down to will, and wanting to be different.

 

Yeah, I've read this several times too. Can you clarify how they are different? I don't know the rules at any of the above clubs (I can see the result of said rules, but am not privy to the rules themselves), nor do I know them at City.. Size restrictions? Unnecessary paperwork? Certain restrictive protocol?

 

If I were to approach the club and say "I have this big surfer flag, can I use it at x match", what would the response be?

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Yeah, I've read this several times too. Can you clarify;how they are different? I don't know the rules at any of the above clubs (I can see the result of said rules, but am not privy to the rules themselves), nor do I know them at City.. Size restrictions? Unnecessary paperwork? Certain restrictive protocol?

If I were to approach the club and say "I have this big surfer flag, can I use it at x match", what would the response be?

Bristol City have had rules on number of flags, size and "concerns" regarding materials used - flag and poles. Flags have been restricted to areas. These decisions at Bristol City really do NOT affect all clubs, they are arbitrary, and change season to season as those responsible for safety bring in their new ideas.

Since 2007 Bristol City have had five [?] safety officers, there has been a lack of continuity. Job roles have been downsized. The present officer [from fans experience appears to be a decent bloke] is in his role for the second time, and has different ideas to previous people in charge.

If I were to approach the club and say "I have this big surfer flag, can I use it at x match", what would the response be? Bristol City will require fire certification [fire retardancy]. Again that is no nationally enforced regulation.

If you want to know more http://www.whenthemoonshines.co.uk/

Back on topic, hopefully the brilliant spectacle pictured from Saturday will lead to interest here becoming visual in BS3 in some form. The Tricolores are setting some standard over there, reacting to that can be challenging fun, fun which might create a bit more interest in both clubs.

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For clarification: There are two large surfer flags (The Scott Murray and Pride of the West) which have been displayed and surfed at Ashton Gate before. There are currently no rules or regulations which would stop them being surfed again. For reasons best known to himself, WTMS has decreed that all flags should be locked away this season and not surfed or displayed. This is entirely down to him and his mates, and has nothing to do with any restrictions imposed by BCFC.

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Well now I'm just confused again.

 

Thanks for your clarification though, Dave.

 

To try and get my head round it though: were these two surfer flags required to have a fire certificate? Are they restricted to any specific areas? And would additional flags be allowed?

 

WTMS: why, specifically, have neither been displayed this season? Considering what Dave has said, have you been told otherwise, or made your own decision?

 

 

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder why I asked...  :rolleyes:

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To try and get my head round it though: were these two surfer flags required to have a fire certificate? Are they restricted to any specific areas? And would additional flags be allowed?

 

They do require a certificate, which they both have. They are not restricted to certain areas. All we ask is that we know in advance when they are going to be surfed. Additional flags are generally welcome in all areas of the ground, providing they don't obstruct emergency exits, gangways etc.
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Thanks Dave.

 

WTMS, I can definitely see why the additional costs to fireproof/certificate the flags would be prohibitive & frustrating. That does seem unnecessary - especially considering the test carried out.

 

Is the "George" flag you mention the same as the "Pride of the West" one Dave mentions? If so, why does Dave seem to think it does have a certificate (suppose Dave could also/would better answer this question)? If not, why has the "Pride of the West" one not been displayed?

 

Similarly (and I appreciate you may be bored of repeating things you may have mentioned many times in the past), but could you please elaborate on "the reasons why it [the Flying Murray] no longer appears at Ashton Gate"?

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Thanks Dave.

WTMS, I can definitely see why the additional costs to fireproof/certificate the flags would be prohibitive frustrating. That does seem unnecessary - especially considering the test carried out.

Is the "George" flag you mention the same as the "Pride of the West" one Dave mentions? If so, why does Dave seem to think it does have a certificate (suppose Dave could also/would better answer this question)? If not, why has the "Pride of the West" one not been displayed?

Similarly (and I appreciate you may be bored of repeating things you may have mentioned many times in the past), but could you please elaborate on "the reasons why it [the Flying Murray] no longer appears at Ashton Gate"?

Is the "George" flag you mention the same as the "Pride of the West" one Dave mentions? If so, why does Dave seem to think it does have a certificate (suppose Dave could also/would better answer this question)? If not, why has the "Pride of the West" one not been displayed?

It is not the same flag. Who knows. Maybe those behind it also tired of the uneven treatment of fans by a club who are demonstrating within this thread they cannot get their act / facts straight.

Similarly (and I appreciate you may be bored of repeating things you may have mentioned many times in the past), but could you please elaborate on "the reasons why it [the Flying Murray] no longer appears at Ashton Gate"?

There are more detailed threads stretching back years here - http://www.whenthemoonshines.co.uk/index.php?act=idx

The effort becomes wearing. It all becomes arduous and boring. Eventually fans say no more. You cannot make Bristol City be different if they do not want to be, but the opportunity with Willem II is still there to be.

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There are more detailed threads stretching back years here - http://www.whenthemoonshines.co.uk/index.php?act=idx

 

Ok, guess I'll have to sign up & have a read through.

 

Just thought you might be able to provide a succinct couple of reasons to save me reading "years" of threads - particularly as I'm asking about this season, not any other.

 

If it is indeed more complicated than that, then fair enough - although you state that Dave L is not addressing the reasoning and yet you're not directly addressing the reasoning either..

 

Anyway, hopefully some sort of resolution will come about sooner rather than later, would be good for everyone to work together to create a new AG of which we (and Willem) can be proud!

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Just thought you might be able to provide a succinct couple of reasons to save me reading "years" of threads - particularly as I'm asking about this season, not any other.

The years of threads are the reasons. Mr Llyods post here demonstrates he has not taken care to check his facts. That is a norm, but hey ho its only fans efforts, they will keep coming back for more, but eventually reasons accumulate to such a degree people ask why do something beyond the normal, when you can just attend.

An opportunity to do better, to learn could be gained from a club around 400 miles away.

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The years of threads are the reasons. Mr Llyods post here demonstrates he has not taken care to check his facts. That is a norm, but hey ho its only fans efforts, they will keep coming back for more, but eventually reasons accumulate to such a degree people ask why do something beyond the normal, when you can just attend.

 

Ah ok, so no specific reasons for this season alone, just a gradual build up of resentment and frustration?

 

That's fair enough, if constant efforts are rebutted or derailed it's certainly not gonna help the situation. Although it does beg the question: if the majority of obstacles were removed by the club, would the resentment and frustration still remain strong enough to prevent any further effort to be put in to bring stuff back, and would it therefore require an injection of energies from another set of fans to rekindle such a culture/atmosphere? Or would you be happy to revive it and dismiss previous issues?

 

It just seems to me that the display at Willem is considered not to be feasible purely due to the fact that those considering it have been knocked back so much in the past that they no longer have the energy and desire to go to the lengths necessary to get it done - which is perfectly understandable.

 

But the display itself is in fact feasible, if it were developed by a group unaffected by previous disagreements, who were happy to produce the flag, get it certificated, alert the club to their intentions & go ahead with it.

 

Or am I wrong here, and there are extra factors that would stop a "new" group (separate to those years of problems) from achieving such a thing?

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Well for one the Murray flag is a good 40ft long and just won't fit in the Williams due to the make up of the stand (same as the Atyeo stand as the Supporters trust chairman got his tape measure out to see if it would fit).

 

Pillars, split walkway from top and bottom seating and along with the directors box and corporate seating it just would not work.

 

 

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Big George is a fair size and made from hot air balloon material

 

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Pride of the west is a fraction of the size and to be honest looks lost when surfed (it would fit in just 1 of the white squares on big george)

 

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Ah ok, so no specific reasons for this season alone, just a gradual build up of resentment and frustration?

That's fair enough, if constant efforts are rebutted or derailed it's certainly not gonna help the situation. Although it does beg the question: if the majority of obstacles were removed by the club, would the resentment and frustration still remain strong enough to prevent any further effort to be put in to bring stuff back, and would it therefore require an injection of energies from another set of fans to rekindle such a culture/atmosphere? Or would you be happy to revive it and dismiss previous issues?

It just seems to me that the display at Willem is considered not to be feasible purely due to the fact that those considering it have been knocked back so much in the past that they no longer have the energy and desire to go to the lengths necessary to get it done - which is perfectly understandable.

But the display itself is in fact feasible, if it were developed by a group unaffected by previous disagreements, who were happy to produce the flag, get it certificated, alert the club to their intentions & go ahead with it.

Or am I wrong here, and there are extra factors that would stop a "new" group (separate to those years of problems) from achieving such a thing?

Ah ok, so no specific reasons for this season alone, just a gradual build up of resentment and frustration? Cutting it short yes.

A similar display to that in Tilburg within Ashton Gate is not feasible [practical]. It is too deep to think of hypothetical scenarios x as of yet an unidentified group of fans with a connection to Willem II.

Situations and possibility do alter. Seven years ago many Bristol City fans would have been unaware of the team from Tilburg. Now Willem II are part of the supporting culture of a section of Bristol City fans, a growing culture - There will be further trips this season to the Netherlands.

The latest display in Vak E has piqued interest here. A positive change in fan culture may yet stem from what was once a unlikely source.

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I had a go at doing something different in the Atyeo (picture above) once.

Got fed up of all the politics and everything else that comes with it. I have 2 great flags on poles and a large parkenders flag. None of them used anymore.

I just want to turn up, sing for 90 minutes and wave / hang a few flags. Who would of thought it can cause such a fuss.

From my perspective the atmos at AG is currently dead until one day it rises again (if ever).

Worth sticking something on wtms when everyone's heading over. I know a few miners lads who would be keen

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Would the owners of these flags consider taking them out of storage for potential trip(s) to Wembley Stadium?

The topic is about Willem II, but there are numerous restrictions on flags at Wembley above 250cm in width, or length.

Worth sticking something on wtms when everyone's heading over. I know a few miners lads who would be keen

Regulars attended Saturday, the Landlord was over there v Fortuna Sittard ...

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Myself and a few lads are planning to come over to Tilburg for Willem's last home game of the season in May.. I've heard a few more City boys are going over as well does anyone know if this is true? and from a Willem perspective is Tilburg lively on the night before your home games I'm sure its lively on matchday but do you have many lads in the pubs the night before? Cheers

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