So let me get this straight.....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

12 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

 

As its New Years Eve... I will share with you 'My Opinion' on the subject..... people you don't have to believe me and neither will I name my sources, so save yourselves posting 100 times asking for them.

Nogbad is correct in what he says above!

This happened twice on big deals which led to them big scuppered and then being turned down. The two main targets of the Summer!!

Both deals were agreed in principal at the end of May.

The first deal scuppered was Harry Maguire, KB & SC had negotiated the deal to sign HM from Hull, a fee of £2.5 Million was agreed, personal terms agreed.

The second deal scuppered was Andre Gray, again KB & SC had negotiated a deal to sign AG from Brentford for £4.5 Million and £14k a week.

The deals were presented to JP who discusses them with SL

SL has the final say on all signings.

Beginning of June SC & KB go on holiday for 3 weeks and 2 weeks respectively. During this time JP & SL decide to negotiate the HM deal as they think they can get a better deal. They offer £1.25 million to Hull. Hull's response is that BCFC are trying the micky.... the deal had been agreed and now the club are trying to get him on the cheap. Hull's response is, you can buy HM but the price was then £4 Million and there was no negotiation. Deal falls through.

Next up is the Andre Gray deal, as mentioned above the deal was all agreed in principal by the end of May, this deal was scuppered due to SL/JP deciding to 'wait' on the deal, they believed that he was valued at £3 Million and were prepared to play cat and mouse with Brentford in order to get him cheaper. June passes and we are still waiting it out. In the mean time Burnley come sniffing but with no firm offers. We then try again at the end of July but Brentford are happy to hold out and tell BCFC that the price is now £8 Million. Andre Gray is now reluctant to move to us as we held out on the deal and were not offering any more than £14k a week. 

Burnley then offer £6 Million fee, which is agreed. They agree personal terms of £26k a week and £3k a week in bonuses. Deal dead for BCFC.

This then sends the board into panic..... Enter the Dwight Gayle saga.

The deal was £9 Million and was made up of two parts. the first part was would see CPFC buyout the sell on clause of YB, they value him at between £15-£20 Million. Our sell on clause is 20 %, Both clubs negotiated that the sell on clause was worth £3.5 Million, so BCFC would pay £5.5 Million adding in the sell on clause would take the deal to £9 Million. The deal fell down through our wage structure. DG is on £21k a week at CPFC, BCFC offered £14k a week, DG said he would sign for £19k a week as he would receive a % of the transfer fee. SL/JP would not break the wage structure which is capped at £15k a week for any one player. Deal Dead.

That leaves us at square one with none of our main targets secured, in a nut shell the above is what led to our disastrous transfer window in the Summer!!

 

 

This has a definite ring of truth to it.

But I would like people to consider this, if true SL might be guilty of being naive but to be fair to him if he appoints a manager, a director of football and a director of finance, surely he needs to believe them for the job he employed them to do and not interfere.

So if his director of finance tells him we can probably get these players cheaper, just leave it to me boss, if this guy is soooooo respected within his field and SL has employed him because of that, why would he not believe the guy knew what he was talking about?. The lesson learned needs to be the next time deals are agreed don't let anyone whoever they are interfere with that already agreed deal because they will always end in the way that they did.

 

[Maesknoll Red]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

This post doesn't really make any sense. So we've only been outplayed in a few games, therefore in most games we've held our own 

 

The stats and league table position suggest we have been outplayed in more than a few games....

[Shtanley]

26 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The stats and league table position suggest we have been outplayed in more than a few games....

It suggests simply that we have lost more than a few games. It has no outplayed colum as far as I'm aware. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

This post doesn't really make any sense. So we've only been outplayed in a few games, therefore in most games we've held our own (and in the ones I've seen, we certainly have). Sounds like he's doing alright to me. 

By the way, why should this squad not be third from bottom? Most of the players were picked from lower league clubs. Yes we won League One at a canter, but we've done roughly as well as the other two promoted teams, and are only a few points off a respectable position.

-21 GD (joint worse) most goals conceded and bottom 3 would suggest otherwise... On that basis, how have we held our own?

[Maesknoll Red]

36 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

It suggests simply that we have lost more than a few games. It has no outplayed colum as far as I'm aware. 

Only two columns count, points, then GD and in both of those we are seriously deficient, that negates the need for an outplayed column so not sure what your point is,  

[fgrsimon]

My recollection was that we tried to sign Dwight Gayle before Andre Gray?

[Shtanley]

8 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Only two columns count, points, then GD and in both of those we are seriously deficient, that negates the need for an outplayed column so not sure what your point is,  

That using the table to disprove the fact we have been outplayed every game is stupid. Same thing you're saying. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

19 minutes ago, fgrsimon said:

My recollection was that we tried to sign Dwight Gayle before Andre Gray?

It was... you are correct.

[ChippenhamRed]

6 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

My recollection was that we tried to sign Dwight Gayle before Andre Gray?

I had the same thought.

Tetbury's post does have a ring of truth, but why is this being accepted as fact whereas other "ITK"s are generally dismissed and ridiculed? This is a genuine question and I'm not criticising Tetbury Massive. Is he known to have contacts close to the club?

[Lanterne Rouge]

39 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I had the same thought.

Tetbury's post does have a ring of truth, but why is this being accepted as fact whereas other "ITK"s are generally dismissed and ridiculed? This is a genuine question and I'm not criticising Tetbury Massive. Is he known to have contacts close to the club?

He`s been on the money before.

[Frenchay Red]

53 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I had the same thought.

Tetbury's post does have a ring of truth, but why is this being accepted as fact whereas other "ITK"s are generally dismissed and ridiculed? This is a genuine question and I'm not criticising Tetbury Massive. Is he known to have contacts close to the club?

It appears more plausible to me, as whatever he posts is done so on a purely matter of fact, take it or leave it basis. No smugness, no I know more than you so I'm right, attitude. Unlike one or two who come to mind.

IMO there are a few posting B/S on here on the basis of self importance, TM certainly does not fall into that category.

[Ian M]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I had the same thought.

Tetbury's post does have a ring of truth, but why is this being accepted as fact whereas other "ITK"s are generally dismissed and ridiculed? This is a genuine question and I'm not criticising Tetbury Massive. Is he known to have contacts close to the club?

Lookout for posts that contain TM saying "My opinion" (with the quotation marks). I don't think they have ever been wrong about a signing when used.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Lookout for posts that contain TM saying "My opinion" (with the quotation marks). I don't think they have ever been wrong about a signing when used.

Fair enough - sounds credible enough to me.

[Davefevs]

Cotts came out and said earlier in the summer that they'd been quoted £7m (think that was the amount) for a Champ striker...assumed to be Gray.  From what TM says, looks like we were in for Gray very early, way before Gayle....and it went wrong.

[Portland Bill]

10 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

My recollection was that we tried to sign Dwight Gayle before Andre Gray?

That's what we were led to believe, but it seems that the Gray deal was being done before last season had finished. But because of us trying to get him on the cheap the deal went cold. We obviously then went in for Gayle and when that was a no no we went back in for Gray.

[AshtonGreat]

13 hours ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

-21 GD (joint worse) most goals conceded and bottom 3 would suggest otherwise... On that basis, how have we held our own?

I was quoting the OP, who suggested we'd only been outplayed in a few games

[Thatwasclose]

19 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

This post doesn't really make any sense. So we've only been outplayed in a few games, therefore in most games we've held our own (and in the ones I've seen, we certainly have). Sounds like he's doing alright to me. 

By the way, why should this squad not be third from bottom? Most of the players were picked from lower league clubs. Yes we won League One at a canter, but we've done roughly as well as the other two promoted teams, and are only a few points off a respectable position.

 

When I say we have been outplayed a handful of times in mean games where there opposition was just too good such that we didn't stand a chance of getting something.

My point is we are actually better than most teams who have beaten us or taken points of us, i.e. games we should have put away had we been set up better.

 

[Harry]

On 31/12/2015 at 09:41, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

 

As its New Years Eve... I will share with you 'My Opinion' on the subject..... people you don't have to believe me and neither will I name my sources, so save yourselves posting 100 times asking for them.

Nogbad is correct in what he says above!

This happened twice on big deals which led to them big scuppered and then being turned down. The two main targets of the Summer!!

Both deals were agreed in principal at the end of May.

The first deal scuppered was Harry Maguire, KB & SC had negotiated the deal to sign HM from Hull, a fee of £2.5 Million was agreed, personal terms agreed.

The second deal scuppered was Andre Gray, again KB & SC had negotiated a deal to sign AG from Brentford for £4.5 Million and £14k a week.

The deals were presented to JP who discusses them with SL

SL has the final say on all signings.

Beginning of June SC & KB go on holiday for 3 weeks and 2 weeks respectively. During this time JP & SL decide to negotiate the HM deal as they think they can get a better deal. They offer £1.25 million to Hull. Hull's response is that BCFC are trying the micky.... the deal had been agreed and now the club are trying to get him on the cheap. Hull's response is, you can buy HM but the price was then £4 Million and there was no negotiation. Deal falls through.

Next up is the Andre Gray deal, as mentioned above the deal was all agreed in principal by the end of May, this deal was scuppered due to SL/JP deciding to 'wait' on the deal, they believed that he was valued at £3 Million and were prepared to play cat and mouse with Brentford in order to get him cheaper. June passes and we are still waiting it out. In the mean time Burnley come sniffing but with no firm offers. We then try again at the end of July but Brentford are happy to hold out and tell BCFC that the price is now £8 Million. Andre Gray is now reluctant to move to us as we held out on the deal and were not offering any more than £14k a week. 

Burnley then offer £6 Million fee, which is agreed. They agree personal terms of £26k a week and £3k a week in bonuses. Deal dead for BCFC.

This then sends the board into panic..... Enter the Dwight Gayle saga.

The deal was £9 Million and was made up of two parts. the first part was would see CPFC buyout the sell on clause of YB, they value him at between £15-£20 Million. Our sell on clause is 20 %, Both clubs negotiated that the sell on clause was worth £3.5 Million, so BCFC would pay £5.5 Million adding in the sell on clause would take the deal to £9 Million. The deal fell down through our wage structure. DG is on £21k a week at CPFC, BCFC offered £14k a week, DG said he would sign for £19k a week as he would receive a % of the transfer fee. SL/JP would not break the wage structure which is capped at £15k a week for any one player. Deal Dead.

That leaves us at square one with none of our main targets secured, in a nut shell the above is what led to our disastrous transfer window in the Summer!!

 

 

Hi Tets,

Thanks for posting this, it is a true shambles of a summer.  But might I put an alternative spin on it :

Signings are agreed all the time in football and take while to finalise, often changes are made to the terms and often the deals fall through as a result.  We won't be the only club who has experienced this.
Think back to Summer 2014.  The Korey and Freeman deals were all agreed pre-May, but they weren't finalised until the end of June, some 8 weeks or more later.  What was agreed pre-May was not the final terms on the table come the end of June.  Things frequently change in transfer saga's, even after a price and terms have been AGREED - not until the pen is put to paper is it final, and we are not the only club in the land who look to get what they can out of a deal.
Was this wrong in the cases of Maguire and Gray - judging by your evidence, yes, so it would appear.

An alternative slant on it could be that although Brentford had agreed a £4.5m deal with ourselves by the end of May, does not necessarily mean that the deal was secured.  QPR were already sniffing around Gray in May and were also in negotiation with Brentford.  Clubs are of course happy for the players agents to filter their names round the market and Burnley clearly thought he was worth more than £4.5m and were willing to blow everyone out of the water with their offer (let's not forget that Hull were also in talks during June).  Again, happens all the time - just because an agreement has been made in principal, doesn't mean it's a done deal.  Perhaps the negotiation went more along the lines of Brentford saying that they'd received a better offer, and Mr Pelling and Mr Lansdown not willing to up their offer - to the understandable disappointment of Messrs Cotterill & Burt.  Your source is claiming that we negotiated downwards, but perhaps it was more a case of not willing to negotiate upwards?

However, another slant on it could be that the deals for HM and AG that had been agreed by SC/KB in May were over the odds of what Mr Pelling had been advised by 'the Board' was the budget.  Mr Pelling then had to try to rescue the situation but by this stage it was not recoverable.  Mr Pelling then becomes the target of wrath, and suffers the consequence of a job loss.

One thing I am straight on, is that I was acutely aware of a rift between SC and SL in June, due to the the transfer saga's.  I am also aware of disappointment from SL toward his son for how he was handling the matters of the budget.  I am also aware that Mr Pelling jumped, and wasn't pushed, because he found working with JL and KD impossible.  KD/JL gave Pelling a budget.  SC/KB pushed their luck with it.  JP tried to stay within the given budget, and KD/JL then sided with SC/KB.  JP walked as he'd been completely undermined.

Your stories around these bids may well have a lot of truth in them (in terms of the offers we made), but your source, in my opinion, is coming from the point of view of Mr Cotterill and does not necessarily reflect the whole truth.  Truth is, negotiations continue until pen is put to paper, so none of this was a done deal, even if agreements had been made.  Having agreed with Maguire and Gray that they were wiling to come to us, should we have pulled out all the stops to make it so?  Hell yeah, of course we should've.  But your source only tells one side of a very complicated story.

[Lew-T]

Well this just confirms that SL isn't a football businessman, I've said that from the start and nothing will change my opinion.

What a shambles!

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I think between both TM and Harry's comments you are close to where the summer went wrong, and as I have politely suggested, they were all involved and SC was far from absent in all this. I have no inside info on any of this, apart from the one element that has not been detailed, and that is the role of the agents in all of these cases. Clubs may well agree a deal between them, and that appears to have happened. But the agents were not online. They also had a good hand in derailing the deals. Bottom line is, and remains, we were not sufficienly organised from top to bottom or experienced enough to conclude deals in the Championship, deals that are more like Prem transfers (that are another world again) . The real concern is who now is running the show for their transfer window. In any case, whilst Maguire never happened, we did get Baker, a Prem experienced CB, so of this saga, it is the striker that was not completed. What was the real summer plan for a GK, CM for example ? 

It's rather amateurish to not know the going rates at Championship level and Prem level of Agents and their players.

Contracts like you and others have implied, are ridiculously complicated these days.

If memory serves me right, SL or SC implied before that they didn't pay the going rate and maybe should have paid more.

I find it frustrating that a businessman of SL's ability, makes such basic errors running a football club. What's even more annoying is the likes of JP leaving.

It's not the first time people have left, because they can't work with certain people at the Club.

So frustrating on so many accounts...but it's been like it for years....so no surprise. Such a shame...

[BCFC Jordan]

The mess of this summer was always quite clearly down to the board. Same patters persist manager after manager - been saying it since the summer! I don't understand how people thought the two experienced football men (KB and SC) would be the ones getting the figures wrong. Hence my sympathy for SC and full backing of him, regardless of what happens this year - he's been dealt the worst hand imaginable.

 

Close to confirmation from TM is nice though.

 

Wonder if it means we let JET go because we thought we had Gray signed, sealed and delivered.

 

Hope the board learn from past mistakes and make amends by giving Cotterill their full backing this month. You have to respect the man for braving it out, despite not being given the tools to deliver. As he said in his post-match Burnley interview, the fans are a main factor in what keeps him going. He's shown what he can do when given the resources and wants what's best for the club.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Hi Tets,

Thanks for posting this, it is a true shambles of a summer.  But might I put an alternative spin on it :

Signings are agreed all the time in football and take while to finalise, often changes are made to the terms and often the deals fall through as a result.  We won't be the only club who has experienced this.
Think back to Summer 2014.  The Korey and Freeman deals were all agreed pre-May, but they weren't finalised until the end of June, some 8 weeks or more later.  What was agreed pre-May was not the final terms on the table come the end of June.  Things frequently change in transfer saga's, even after a price and terms have been AGREED - not until the pen is put to paper is it final, and we are not the only club in the land who look to get what they can out of a deal.
Was this wrong in the cases of Maguire and Gray - judging by your evidence, yes, so it would appear.

An alternative slant on it could be that although Brentford had agreed a £4.5m deal with ourselves by the end of May, does not necessarily mean that the deal was secured.  QPR were already sniffing around Gray in May and were also in negotiation with Brentford.  Clubs are of course happy for the players agents to filter their names round the market and Burnley clearly thought he was worth more than £4.5m and were willing to blow everyone out of the water with their offer (let's not forget that Hull were also in talks during June).  Again, happens all the time - just because an agreement has been made in principal, doesn't mean it's a done deal.  Perhaps the negotiation went more along the lines of Brentford saying that they'd received a better offer, and Mr Pelling and Mr Lansdown not willing to up their offer - to the understandable disappointment of Messrs Cotterill & Burt.  Your source is claiming that we negotiated downwards, but perhaps it was more a case of not willing to negotiate upwards?

However, another slant on it could be that the deals for HM and AG that had been agreed by SC/KB in May were over the odds of what Mr Pelling had been advised by 'the Board' was the budget.  Mr Pelling then had to try to rescue the situation but by this stage it was not recoverable.  Mr Pelling then becomes the target of wrath, and suffers the consequence of a job loss.

One thing I am straight on, is that I was acutely aware of a rift between SC and SL in June, due to the the transfer saga's.  I am also aware of disappointment from SL toward his son for how he was handling the matters of the budget.  I am also aware that Mr Pelling jumped, and wasn't pushed, because he found working with JL and KD impossible.  KD/JL gave Pelling a budget.  SC/KB pushed their luck with it.  JP tried to stay within the given budget, and KD/JL then sided with SC/KB.  JP walked as he'd been completely undermined.

Your stories around these bids may well have a lot of truth in them (in terms of the offers we made), but your source, in my opinion, is coming from the point of view of Mr Cotterill and does not necessarily reflect the whole truth.  Truth is, negotiations continue until pen is put to paper, so none of this was a done deal, even if agreements had been made.  Having agreed with Maguire and Gray that they were wiling to come to us, should we have pulled out all the stops to make it so?  Hell yeah, of course we should've.  But your source only tells one side of a very complicated story.

This is a mighty message...and it makes me feel weaker for the reading of it-especially at this time of day!!...obviously other 'imponderables' involved in this tale of woe but the tinkering and attempted 'slight of hand' by SL/JL is sickening..talk about 'pull the ladder up.not saying SC is perfect,but no wonders of late he is looking dog tired.trust must be 'on the red.thanks for the Clarity,Tetbury.I'm sure not the whole story,but explains so much..

[leadman]

is the 15k a week still in place???

 

[exAtyeoMax]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

Hi Tets,

Thanks for posting this, it is a true shambles of a summer.  But might I put an alternative spin on it :

Signings are agreed all the time in football and take while to finalise, often changes are made to the terms and often the deals fall through as a result.  We won't be the only club who has experienced this.
Think back to Summer 2014.  The Korey and Freeman deals were all agreed pre-May, but they weren't finalised until the end of June, some 8 weeks or more later.  What was agreed pre-May was not the final terms on the table come the end of June.  Things frequently change in transfer saga's, even after a price and terms have been AGREED - not until the pen is put to paper is it final, and we are not the only club in the land who look to get what they can out of a deal.
Was this wrong in the cases of Maguire and Gray - judging by your evidence, yes, so it would appear.

An alternative slant on it could be that although Brentford had agreed a £4.5m deal with ourselves by the end of May, does not necessarily mean that the deal was secured.  QPR were already sniffing around Gray in May and were also in negotiation with Brentford.  Clubs are of course happy for the players agents to filter their names round the market and Burnley clearly thought he was worth more than £4.5m and were willing to blow everyone out of the water with their offer (let's not forget that Hull were also in talks during June).  Again, happens all the time - just because an agreement has been made in principal, doesn't mean it's a done deal.  Perhaps the negotiation went more along the lines of Brentford saying that they'd received a better offer, and Mr Pelling and Mr Lansdown not willing to up their offer - to the understandable disappointment of Messrs Cotterill & Burt.  Your source is claiming that we negotiated downwards, but perhaps it was more a case of not willing to negotiate upwards?

However, another slant on it could be that the deals for HM and AG that had been agreed by SC/KB in May were over the odds of what Mr Pelling had been advised by 'the Board' was the budget.  Mr Pelling then had to try to rescue the situation but by this stage it was not recoverable.  Mr Pelling then becomes the target of wrath, and suffers the consequence of a job loss.

One thing I am straight on, is that I was acutely aware of a rift between SC and SL in June, due to the the transfer saga's.  I am also aware of disappointment from SL toward his son for how he was handling the matters of the budget.  I am also aware that Mr Pelling jumped, and wasn't pushed, because he found working with JL and KD impossible.  KD/JL gave Pelling a budget.  SC/KB pushed their luck with it.  JP tried to stay within the given budget, and KD/JL then sided with SC/KB.  JP walked as he'd been completely undermined.

Your stories around these bids may well have a lot of truth in them (in terms of the offers we made), but your source, in my opinion, is coming from the point of view of Mr Cotterill and does not necessarily reflect the whole truth.  Truth is, negotiations continue until pen is put to paper, so none of this was a done deal, even if agreements had been made.  Having agreed with Maguire and Gray that they were wiling to come to us, should we have pulled out all the stops to make it so?  Hell yeah, of course we should've.  But your source only tells one side of a very complicated story.

Also, I seem to remember that Dwight Gayle was at the basis of further deals in the Premier League falling through. He didn't want to leave Palace. Did Norwich put in a bid and he refused to go, so that meant other deals fell through? Like a property chain…

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said:

The mess of this summer was always quite clearly down to the board. Same patters persist manager after manager - been saying it since the summer! I don't understand how people thought the two experienced football men (KB and SC) would be the ones getting the figures wrong. Hence my sympathy for SC and full backing of him, regardless of what happens this year - he's been dealt the worst hand imaginable.

 

Close to confirmation from TM is nice though.

 

Wonder if it means we let JET go because we thought we had Gray signed, sealed and delivered.

 

Hope the board learn from past mistakes and make amends by giving Cotterill their full backing this month. You have to respect the man for braving it out, despite not being given the tools to deliver. As he said in his post-match Burnley interview, the fans are a main factor in what keeps him going. He's shown what he can do when given the resources and wants what's best for the club.

I think JET was always going.  Out of contract, and not starting many games at a lower division....hardly the recipe to sign a new contract in my opinion.

Coupled with signing on fee, improved wage demand because we are now in Champ, for a player Cotts didn't really pick as first choice.  Made sense to let him go.

I get your point that could Cotts have kept him had he known, but I don't think that was ever in Cotts mind.  Only my thoughts though.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think JET was always going.  Out of contract, and not starting many games at a lower division....hardly the recipe to sign a new contract in my opinion.

Coupled with signing on fee, improved wage demand because we are now in Champ, for a player Cotts didn't really pick as first choice.  Made sense to let him go.

I get your point that could Cotts have kept him had he known, but I don't think that was ever in Cotts mind.  Only my thoughts though.

The whole JET thing is a sideshow, IMHO what has happened at QPR is pretty much what most people other than his manlove club expected to happen, what has happened is not unexpected, in fact if anything his career prospects (obviously not his financial prospects) have taken more of a dip since leaving us, in fact even his bench seat is not a given anymore.

JET is lovely guy and an incredibly talented footballer but not I fear a committed footballer.

 

[chalkeyred]

13 hours ago, Harry said:

However, another slant on it could be that the deals for HM and AG that had been agreed by SC/KB in May were over the odds of what Mr Pelling had been advised by 'the Board' was the budget.  Mr Pelling then had to try to rescue the situation but by this stage it was not recoverable.  Mr Pelling then becomes the target of wrath, and suffers the consequence of a job loss.

One thing I am straight on, is that I was acutely aware of a rift between SC and SL in June, due to the the transfer saga's.  I am also aware of disappointment from SL toward his son for how he was handling the matters of the budget.  I am also aware that Mr Pelling jumped, and wasn't pushed, because he found working with JL and KD impossible.  KD/JL gave Pelling a budget.  SC/KB pushed their luck with it.  JP tried to stay within the given budget, and KD/JL then sided with SC/KB.  JP walked as he'd been completely undermined.

Spot on Harry (IMO).

Let us not forget that BCFC enticed JP to the club, who clearly had a very successful CV in managing the finances at other clubs. 

I would suggest that the previous season went according to plan, with the successful small team of SC/KB/SC taking the club forward in a controlled business manner without too much visible involvement from members of the board. The move to Championship football certainly seemed to open a few eyes regarding required finances and  that must have placed different pressures on different people. JP's role was to manage the finances in accordance with SL's wishes and I would suggest that during the transfer season that business plan became clouded with input from the previously 'quiet' directors and SC/KB.

I can see a scenario where JP's role became difficult, then untenable if he did not have the full backing of SL. It is also interesting that we have not heard of any move to employ a replacement for JP. Will the recently successful management structure change?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 minutes ago, chalkeyred said:

Spot on Harry (IMO).

Let us not forget that BCFC enticed JP to the club, who clearly had a very successful CV in managing the finances at other clubs. 

I would suggest that the previous season went according to plan, with the successful small team of SC/KB/SC taking the club forward in a controlled business manner without too much visible involvement from members of the board. The move to Championship football certainly seemed to open a few eyes regarding required finances and  that must have placed different pressures on different people. JP's role was to manage the finances in accordance with SL's wishes and I would suggest that during the transfer season that business plan became clouded with input from the previously 'quiet' directors and SC/KB.

I can see a scenario where JP's role became difficult, then untenable if he did not have the full backing of SL. It is also interesting that we have not heard of any move to employ a replacement for JP. Will the recently successful management structure change?

Was he really that successful at Florest?, their finances are in a complete mess, which is mainly down to its transfer activities over a long period of time, hence their transfer embargo.

 

[chinapig]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

It's rather amateurish to not know the going rates at Championship level and Prem level of Agents and their players.

Contracts like you and others have implied, are ridiculously complicated these days.

If memory serves me right, SL or SC implied before that they didn't pay the going rate and maybe should have paid more.

I find it frustrating that a businessman of SL's ability, makes such basic errors running a football club. What's even more annoying is the likes of JP leaving.

It's not the first time people have left, because they can't work with certain people at the Club.

So frustrating on so many accounts...but it's been like it for years....so no surprise. Such a shame...

I commented recently on how little heed had been paid to SL's comments after the Sheff Wed game about being surprised at the level of wages in the Championship. This was at the very least a tacit admission of incompetence and seemed to betray SL's own lack of football expertise. The loss of Pelling simply exacerbates the situation, given that we have an invisible Chairman and that there is no reason to believe JL is any more expert than his Dad. One of the latter 2 is presumably fulfilling the Pelling role, in which case I see little cause for optimism. Enthusiastic amateurs are no substitute for professional expertise. If SL believes otherwise, perhaps he would give me a job at Hargreaves Lansdown?

[REDOXO]

I body swerved this thread as the title just gave me a bad feeling, however some very interesting stuff.

I think it was pointed out, comments made although accurate from one perspective could/ would be refuted from another. But if you put a few things together, perhaps a little truth comes out. 

Either way accademic now! The prices have gone up and SL holds the purse strings, regardless of blame and whether he likes it or not!

enjoy the ride people, it's never a dull moment at our club!