Jack Dawe Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 1. Derby 29,500 2. Brighton 24,900 3. Boro 23,400 4. Leeds 23,061 5. Wednesday 21,600 6. Wolves 20,100 7. Forest 19,900 8. Ipswich 19,400 9. Reading 17,900 10. Birmingham 17,500 11. Fulham 17,400 12. Hull 17,200 13. Burnley 16,100 14. QPR 15,600 15. Charlton 15,300 16. Us 15,099 17. Bolton 15,050 18. Cardiff 14,400 19. Blackburn 13,700 20. MK 12,900 21. PNE 12,800 22. Huddersfield 12,500 23. Brentford 10k 24. Rotherham 9k So, we're doing well on this front. Pat yourself on the back. It's worth remembering we must have the smallest away allocation (yet not always full) and MK probably the biggest. I think we'd be somewhere around Hull's crowd this year if the ground was finished, ie, top half. Surprised by this? Look at Cardiff's crowds. Give them another year or two of midtable mediocrity or worse and you would think their crowd will fall even more. Hull and Burnley are modestly supported, in this league. They need their parachute payments. And they need promotion. Preston and Huddersfield are small fry. Reading's crowd is bloody good, better than Birmingham's! Brum being a city of over 1m people. Brighton's crowd is very impressive, it's not just because they are doing well this season. If we can stay up, we should, I reckon, be aiming to be somewhere between Reading and Brighton (as a fellow southern town/city, with enough wealth and business to tap into). This would put us top 8, top third, for support. Where would that leave our "budget"? Derby's crowd is excellent, not a huge place. That's a football town. Leeds' population is about three times that of Derby. So, we're not bad for support. Not giant, not massive, but worth our place at the Championship table. Just think where we might be in the table above with a "competitive" team in this league.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Superb figures considering the way the season has gone, I don't think we've been out of the bottom 5 since September. 15k average is brilliant and shows the loyalty of our fans considering that success on the pitch is generally the biggest factor of good crowds in any division. In answer to your question 'Jack Dawe', I think that with crowds of 15k when we're doing badly it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that we could expect crowds of around 20k in this division if we were doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfctim Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 When I saw the attendance at Leeds on Sat was 20,100 and something, I did think to myself there's a fair chance we'd beat that if we're in the Championship next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 38 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. I'm guessing that's that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingtonRed Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Would be interesting to see those figures as percentages of available seating. Think we'd be in the top 3! Wed for example look decent at 21k but that's only half a stadium for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Very good I'd say. The size of the population is just an indication of potential. Decades of achieving nothing in the top half of the league have a far greater influence. Look at almost all of the teams above us in that list, they've all recently made it to the top flight or have regularly been pushing for it. Not so long ago the likes of Reading and Brighton had no more going for them than Rovers, look what a bit of success and a new stadium has done for them. Put on something worth watching and the crowds will come, look at the JPT/Playoffs etc. Brighton couldn't come anywhere near us. We've started building big, when Cotterill was sacked the board we're talking big, now it's time to start acting big. We've got to bring someone in with experience of getting to the promised land. It'll cost an uncomfortable amount money for the people at the helm, but football is an expensive hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said: The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. Agree to a point, but the Bristol region has always had an apathy towards football in terms of attendances. Us and them down the road have always done alright without being anything special. I think given our lowly position bringing in 15k+ in the second tier is pretty good. Everything's relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 5 hours ago, Jack Dawe said: 1. Derby 29,500 2. Brighton 24,900 3. Boro 23,400 4. Leeds 23,061 5. Wednesday 21,600 6. Wolves 20,100 7. Forest 19,900 8. Ipswich 19,400 9. Reading 17,900 10. Birmingham 17,500 11. Fulham 17,400 12. Hull 17,200 13. Burnley 16,100 14. QPR 15,600 15. Charlton 15,300 16. Us 15,099 17. Bolton 15,050 18. Cardiff 14,400 19. Blackburn 13,700 20. MK 12,900 21. PNE 12,800 22. Huddersfield 12,500 23. Brentford 10k 24. Rotherham 9k So, we're doing well on this front. Pat yourself on the back. It's worth remembering we must have the smallest away allocation (yet not always full) and MK probably the biggest. I think we'd be somewhere around Hull's crowd this year if the ground was finished, ie, top half. Surprised by this? Look at Cardiff's crowds. Give them another year or two of midtable mediocrity or worse and you would think their crowd will fall even more. Hull and Burnley are modestly supported, in this league. They need their parachute payments. And they need promotion. Preston and Huddersfield are small fry. Reading's crowd is bloody good, better than Birmingham's! Brum being a city of over 1m people. Brighton's crowd is very impressive, it's not just because they are doing well this season. If we can stay up, we should, I reckon, be aiming to be somewhere between Reading and Brighton (as a fellow southern town/city, with enough wealth and business to tap into). This would put us top 8, top third, for support. Where would that leave our "budget"? Derby's crowd is excellent, not a huge place. That's a football town. Leeds' population is about three times that of Derby. So, we're not bad for support. Not giant, not massive, but worth our place at the Championship table. Just think where we might be in the table above with a "competitive" team in this league.... Comfortably four places below,don't you mean??......if we were fourth you wouldn't say we were comfortable at the top,would you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 5 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. With only 3 stands i think you are being a little unfair. With Westie open next season and the clubs drive to promote the club to a wider audience including the not to be underestimated rugby boys I fully expect us to be over 20k next season, assuming we stay up which i think we will. Thanks for sharing OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 There are some very unfull stadiums amongst that lot - Leeds. Sheffield Wednesday. Middlesborough. Cardiff. MK. We would look really good this season on a stat based on empty seats. Fingers crossed that doesn't go out the window next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 hour ago, havanatopia said: With only 3 stands i think you are being a little unfair. With Westie open next season and the clubs drive to promote the club to a wider audience including the not to be underestimated rugby boys I fully expect us to be over 20k next season, assuming we stay up which i think we will. Thanks for sharing OP. The three stands are a convenient excuse. The last time we were in this division, we had four stands, and our average attendances were roughly the same. However I completely agree that the completion of the redevelopment is a real chance to push up attendances and I am very hopeful we'll see a "new stadium bounce" as has been seen elsewhere. Pricing will be key - not charging non-members £38 to sit in the Dolman would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 7 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. How many of those people actually support a Bristol side though? Years of playing in the lower leagues means that we (and them) are only attractive to locals by and large. You look at somewhere like Manchester where they have two sides who have played in the top league for many years, and you have the locals, the ones from just outside the area, nationwide and even globally. What I'm saying is bearing in mind both teams in Bristols average league position over the years, attendances probably aren't that bad. As they say success brings more money, fans etc. A lot of people who aren't interested in the local side, actually "support" a bigger (prem) team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 For balance I would add that I do think the potential is there. There are a large number of football fans in the region who simply don't come - as others have said that's likely due to a lack of any sustained period of success. Taking 45k to Wembley to play Walsall proves they are there. Again, pricing is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 9 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. I posted this because some posters on here seem to be under the impression that we are a plucky little L1club in terms of crowds and resources. Well, our budget might be bottom 3 or whatever, this year, but we are midtable for support and not out of our depth. There is something to work with there, in this league. Burnley is a small town but their crowd is moderate in relation to the competition. That's what I meant. But it's probably the best per capita. Like Derby, Burnley is clearly a football town. I think it is worth "writing home" to remind people we are not tinpot for support in this league, nor are we huge/giant/massive etc. We are somewhere in between and worthy of our place in this league when it comes to support (and to some extent resources). It's one positive! All we need now is a board administration, a manager and a team to match the crowd and stadium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 6 hours ago, Robert the bruce said: Comfortably four places below,don't you mean??......if we were fourth you wouldn't say we were comfortable at the top,would you?? Well, we're unlikely to tumble down into the bottom 3 in this league, unless we only get 4 or 5 thousand from now until May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 We could sell out a couple of games next season if Villa and Sunderland/Newcastle go down (and we stay up). I'd say Villa would almost certainly sell out. I agree top 8 in the league is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Mad Cyril said: There are some very unfull stadiums amongst that lot - Leeds. Sheffield Wednesday. Middlesborough. Cardiff. MK. We would look really good this season on a stat based on empty seats. Fingers crossed that doesn't go out the window next season. It will happen some day, no doubt. But right here, right now: we're doing well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 9 hours ago, KingtonRed said: Would be interesting to see those figures as percentages of available seating. Think we'd be in the top 3! Wed for example look decent at 21k but that's only half a stadium for them. Here you go, quick workings based on Jack Dawes post and data from Wiki... Av Att Capacity Av Att % of Cap City 15099 16500 91.5% Derby 29500 33597 87.8% QPR 15600 18439 84.6% Brentford 10000 12300 81.3% Brighton 24900 30750 81.0% Rotherham 9000 12021 74.9% Reading 17900 24161 74.1% Burnley 16100 21940 73.4% Fulham 17400 25700 67.7% Boro 23400 34742 67.4% Hull 17200 25586 67.2% Wolves 20100 30852 65.1% Forest 19900 30602 65.0% Ipswich 19400 30311 64.0% Leeds 23061 37890 60.9% Birmingham 17500 30016 58.3% Charlton 15300 27111 56.4% Wednesday 21600 39732 54.4% Bolton 15050 28723 52.4% PNE 12800 24500 52.2% Cardiff 14400 28000 51.4% Huddersfield 12500 24500 51.0% Blackburn 13700 31367 43.7% MK 12900 30500 42.3% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malmesbury-Red Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Wouldn't be surprised with decent pricing structure if we get end up getting average crowds of 18,000-19,000. Subject to staying up and being around mid-table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: We could sell out a couple of games next season if Villa and Sunderland/Newcastle go down (and we stay up). I'd say Villa would almost certainly sell out. I agree top 8 in the league is possible. Villa and Leeds, plus a Christmas game, say: all could be 20k plus crowds, given a decent side. When did we last have 3 20k league crowds in one season? The 1970s I reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Interesting stats. Bottom third midtableish, better than I thought. Big potential and big possibility but it isn't a given things will increase. Students. Decent whack of Bristol pop, are they a big market tho? Incomers of which there are increasing numbers. Either dislike football, indifferent towards it or have their own teams. Then you have people born here lived their lives here 'supporting' EPL sides either as glory hunters, or following their incoming parents lead. The potential as ever is major but its no sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Interesting stats. Bottom third midtableish, better than I thought. Big potential and big possibility but it isn't a given things will increase. Students. Decent whack of Bristol pop, are they a big market tho? Incomers of which there are increasing numbers. Either dislike football, indifferent towards it or have their own teams. Then you have people born here lived their lives here 'supporting' EPL sides either as glory hunters, or following their incoming parents lead. The potential as ever is major but its no sure thing. No doubt people in Reading were saying similar things as they left Elm Park and relocated twenty years ago. As I say, we are a wealthy - compared to some smaller northern and midland towns - southern area, much like Reading and Brighton. They both transformed themselves beyond recognition (and BHA without making the PL). We're got 15k now, and demand has outstripped supply more often than not this season, to watch a losing team. No givens, no sure things, but there's something here to build on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Interesting stats. Bottom third midtableish, better than I thought. Big potential and big possibility but it isn't a given things will increase. Students. Decent whack of Bristol pop, are they a big market tho? Incomers of which there are increasing numbers. Either dislike football, indifferent towards it or have their own teams. Then you have people born here lived their lives here 'supporting' EPL sides either as glory hunters, or following their incoming parents lead. The potential as ever is major but its no sure thing. Bottom of the middle third, actually. In a limited capacity ground with a number of games sold out. We would likely be higher placed without that limitation. Midtable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Bottom of the middle third, actually. In a limited capacity ground with a number of games sold out. We would likely be higher placed without that limitation. Midtable. Looked again at full sets of figures and you're not wrong. Cautiously optimistic about this, fanbase, growth etc. Definitely the size of the place and relative wealth will help...potential is vast at City has been for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cloud Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Annoys me when people (the Gash in particular), call us "fickle" - considering our appalling record in this div, to sell out most weeks with 15k is staggeringly loyal support - the Gash would kill to get support like ours! The Gash only need to lose a game or two before the whining begins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 11 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: The population of Burnley is 73,000 and there are numerous larger clubs in the region. They are fantastically supported. The population of Derby is 248,000. Again, big clubs nearby. 29k crowds are hugely impressive. The population of Bristol is 442,000 and the wider urban area 617,000. There are no Premier League clubs anywhere near. Sorry, but I find it uncomfortable when we start "patting ourselves on the back" about our attendances. They are nothing to write home about. All of these have benefitted from fans getting on the bandwagon after top flight football. We haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: For balance I would add that I do think the potential is there. There are a large number of football fans in the region who simply don't come - as others have said that's likely due to a lack of any sustained period of success. Taking 45k to Wembley to play Walsall proves they are there. Again, pricing is key. I agree with your overall point but it is my estimation that about 10k were there that day to see Wembley and for a day out and actually have no interest in the club what so ever 25k were probably part timers that attend the odd game every season or used to go to a lot of games but now cant go regularly for one reason or another which leaves the 10k (or just over) that currently attend regularly. Regarding prices - that was not a cheep day to go and watch City but loads turned up (I would be interested to see how the tickets sold over time as a big club can sell that in hours where as we probably sold 15k on the first day 10k the next and then everything else dribbled in over the next week or so), IMO prices are about right and seems comparable to other clubs (there must be stats that show what the optimal price point is and there are problems with reducing them such as devaluing the brand (god I hate myself for saying that) and not being able to reduce the ticket prices further plus maximising profit to sustain the club) and its what's happening on the pitch that dictates if we have 10k or 18k next season people find the money when the product is perceived as high enough quality. I see no reason why with a modicum of success we couldn't get to 30k (if the ground permitted). 9 hours ago, Robin1988 said: Agree to a point, but the Bristol region has always had an apathy towards football in terms of attendances. Us and them down the road have always done alright without being anything special. I think given our lowly position bringing in 15k+ in the second tier is pretty good. Everything's relative. I disagree re the Apathy towards football attendance - there are loads of people that travel all over the country from Bristol and the South west to attend football. If we had some success we would be getting these people not just from Bristol and the south west but all over the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 39 minutes ago, Nube Rojo said: Annoys me when people (the Gash in particular), call us "fickle" - considering our appalling record in this div, to sell out most weeks with 15k is staggeringly loyal support - the Gash would kill to get support like ours! The Gash only need to lose a game or two before the whining begins! Yeah , lightweights , we whine even when we're winning . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingtonRed Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 1 hour ago, cityboy said: Here you go, quick workings based on Jack Dawes post and data from Wiki... Av Att Capacity Av Att % of Cap City 15099 16500 91.5% Derby 29500 33597 87.8% QPR 15600 18439 84.6% Brentford 10000 12300 81.3% Brighton 24900 30750 81.0% Rotherham 9000 12021 74.9% Reading 17900 24161 74.1% Burnley 16100 21940 73.4% Fulham 17400 25700 67.7% Boro 23400 34742 67.4% Hull 17200 25586 67.2% Wolves 20100 30852 65.1% Forest 19900 30602 65.0% Ipswich 19400 30311 64.0% Leeds 23061 37890 60.9% Birmingham 17500 30016 58.3% Charlton 15300 27111 56.4% Wednesday 21600 39732 54.4% Bolton 15050 28723 52.4% PNE 12800 24500 52.2% Cardiff 14400 28000 51.4% Huddersfield 12500 24500 51.0% Blackburn 13700 31367 43.7% MK 12900 30500 42.3% Nice one! City still top of one table this season then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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