We are worse under Johnson....

[NickJ]

4 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Give some people a little rope and they'll hang themselves. 

I notice you've very conveniently added 'Scottish premier league' to suit your profile list.

Funny that, our very own LJ played in the Scottish premier league, didn't he?

Brilliant. Just brilliant. Who's the smarty pants now. 

Again, I refer you back to my previous post, which referred to "top foreign clubs".

What you are very good at, because it is very easy, is making up comments which you allege I have said.

Admittedly, I didn't specify whether I included Scottish clubs such as Celtic and Rangers in my profile of "top foreign clubs".

So let's just say that Scottish football does not have any "top foreign clubs", and that in fact Scottish football is a shit league for shit players, which on reflection is probably the case, and so we take Owen Coyle out of my list (the others from Scottish football also meet the other criteria), that leaves 34 of the 36 successful managers meet my profile criteria.

My comment, that the profile of LJ does not meet the profile of the vast majority of promoted managers (94.4%) over the past 12 years, still holds good, doesn't it.

Christ I don't even know why I'm debating with such an imbecile.

Fact is, as a statement of fact, not opinion, LJ does not have the playing/managing Premier/Championship pedigree that 34 of the 36 previously promoted managers has had.

 

[Alessandro]

20 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Again, I refer you back to my previous post, which referred to "top foreign clubs".

What you are very good at, because it is very easy, is making up comments which you allege I have said.

Admittedly, I didn't specify whether I included Scottish clubs such as Celtic and Rangers in my profile of "top foreign clubs".

So let's just say that Scottish football does not have any "top foreign clubs", and that in fact Scottish football is a shit league for shit players, which on reflection is probably the case, and so we take Owen Coyle out of my list (the others from Scottish football also meet the other criteria), that leaves 34 of the 36 successful managers meet my profile criteria.

My comment, that the profile of LJ does not meet the profile of the vast majority of promoted managers (94.4%) over the past 12 years, still holds good, doesn't it.

Christ I don't even know why I'm debating with such an imbecile.

Fact is, as a statement of fact, not opinion, LJ does not have the playing/managing Premier/Championship pedigree that 34 of the 36 previously promoted managers has had.

 

 you're embarrassing yourself. The time to quit was before you wished you had.

[spudski]

What I don't understand is how someone thinks LJ can't take us up because his 'profile' doesn't fit with some stats...yet thinks SC could of, especially when you look at his stats in this league.

The mind boggles...seems you can find 'facts' to back up any argument.

The other fact is...there are 20 odd managers in the Championship every year, that have 'experience' yet never get promoted...funny that.

It's not just about managers...it's about the whole of the club....apparently not by some.

 

[NickJ]

34 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 you're embarrassing yourself. The time to quit was before you wished you had.

Really.

So you've moved on from incorrectly saying what I've said, to incorrectly purporting to know how I should feel.

For giving my opinion, and supporting that with some facts, I don't feel in the slightest embarrassed.

Didn't really want to, but I've proved you wrong, and proved my point. Not gut feeling, facts.

Opinions are opinions, nobody is right nobody is wrong, although you seem - hiding behind your pseudonym - to resent my having an opinion.

But as a stickler for factual accuracy, I will beat you on factual accuracy, every time.

[Alessandro]

7 hours ago, NickJ said:

Really.

So you've moved on from incorrectly saying what I've said, to incorrectly purporting to know how I should feel.

For giving my opinion, and supporting that with some facts, I don't feel in the slightest embarrassed.

Didn't really want to, but I've proved you wrong, and proved my point. Not gut feeling, facts.

Opinions are opinions, nobody is right nobody is wrong, although you seem - hiding behind your pseudonym - to resent my having an opinion.

But as a stickler for factual accuracy, I will beat you on factual accuracy, every time.

You really are the slipperiest of slippery snakes, it's very amusing. Do you hear how childish you sound, probably not. Now you've deflected and diverted the conversation to a rant about opinion.

And telling someone you are better than them doesn't give your argument validity, just shows everyone you've lost class and control.

Opinions are opinions, nobody is right nobody is wrong, although you seem - hiding behind your pseudonym - to resent my having an opinion.

Oh, feeling got at?? Here's the thing, Mr Factual (NickJ - stickler for factual accuracy, funniest thing i've read on OTIB!), everyone is welcome to an open on an open forum. But equally on that open forum everyone is free to challenge it. 

 

R.E The Scottish premier league, you were happy to use it to suit your argument, and then when you realise LJ played in there and you've made yourself look rather like a tit, you want to move the goal posts again and take it out. That is why it's pointless talking to you any longer.

[downendcity]

16 hours ago, NickJ said:

I refer you to my previous post below. I have highlighted the profile I was referring to, as maybe you missed it the first time around.

So, lets examine the last 12 years, 3 teams each season, 36 managers.

The outcome is that ONE out of 36 does not fit the profile I have listed above, ie PRIOR TO getting promotion from the Championship to the Premiership the manager had:

Played/managed in the Premiership (or in earlier years its Division One equivalent) OR managed in the Championship OR played/managed at a top foreign club.

Team- Club - Previous Relevant Experience as follows:

2014/15
Bournemouth - Eddie Howe - Championship Manager
Watford - Slaviša Jokanović - Premier Player
Norwich - Neil Adams - Premier Player

2013/14
Leicester - Nigel Pearson - Premier Player
Burnley - Sean Dyche - Championship Manager
QPR - Harry Redknapp - Premier Player & Premier Manager

2012/13
Cardiff - Malky Mackay - Championship Manager
Hull - Steve Bruce - Premier Player & Championship Manager
Crystal Palace - Ian Holloway - Championship Manager & Premier Player

2011/12
Reading - Brian McDermott - Premier Player
Southampton - Nigel Adkins - Championship Manager
West Ham  - Sam Allardyce - Premier Player & Premier Manager

2010/11
QPR - Neil Warnock -  Championship Manager & Premier Manager
Norwich - Paul Lambert - Scottish & German Premier Player
Swansea - Brendan Rodgers - Championship Manager

2009/10
Newcastle - Chris Hughton - Premier Player
West Brom - Roberto di Matteo - Premier Player
Blackpool - Ian Holloway - Premier Player

2008/09
Wolves - Mick McCarthy - Premier Player & Premier Manager & International Manager
Birmingam - Alex McLeish - Scottish Premier Player; International Manager
Burnley - Owen Coyle - Scottish Premier Player & Manager

2007/08
West Brom - Tony Mowbray - Premier Player & Scottish Premier Player
Stoke - Tony Pulis - Championship Manager
Hull - Phil Brown - Championship Manager

2006/07
Sunderland - Roy Keane - Premier Player
Birmingham Steve Bruce - Premier Player
Derby - Billy Davies - Championship Manager

2005/06
Reading - Steve Coppell - Premier Player & Premier Manager & Championship Manager
Sheffield United - Neil Warnock -  Championship Manager
Watford - Ady Boothroyd - NONE

2004/05
Sunderland - Mick McCarthy - Premier Player & International Manager
Wigan - Paul Jewell - Premier Manager
West Ham - Alan Pardew - Premier Player

2003/04
Norwich - Nigel Worthington - Premier Player & Championship Manager
West Brom - Gary Megson - Premier Player & Premier Manager & Championship Manager
Crystal Palace - Ian Dowie - Premier Player & Championship Manager
 

So there you are smarty pants, I'm right, the facts, not my gut feeling, support the statement I have made.

Let's hope Lee Johnson is the next Ady Boothroyd.

 

 

The average height of managers achieving promotion from the championship over the last 10 years is 5' 11", so once again Lee Johnson falls well short of the required profile!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ivorguy]

Yes, but we are planning for the future, remember ; and the average height of managers achieving promotion from league one is around 5' 4"

[Spike]

On 10/03/2016 at 10:32, Alessandro said:

Whose opinion carries less ignorance, the opinion of the people who actually run the club, who understand the day to day runnings, who've actually met and spoken to the man in question, seen how they work, conducted the interviews, met the other candidates etc.

Or the opinion of an armchair fan who has created a judgement without ever even meeting the person, seeing how they conduct themselves, take training, talk of plans and strategies for the future.

So who should one trust more, the ignorant or the informed? I trust the boards decision was transparent and with the best intentions of the club at heart

So basically you're saying the board members of our club that are complained about endlessly on how they run the club should be trusted because of their position? 

Let's face it, this board may have appointed the very few good managers we've had but they also appointed the dross and crap we've had. I don't know why people think a board member knows better based on the position they hold, they may be better informed but their passion to see us succeed is more about finances than results. If we came 7th but turned a profit I'm sure the board would be happy, however the fans would probably be happier with 6th and a gamble of promotion in the play offs at a loss. Those factors make a difference in who the club employ. 

[Garland-sweden]

At this very moment the most important thing that we avoid relegation. Ferguson, Ranieri or LJ. We will stay up I hope. Support City Always.

[Alessandro]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

So basically you're saying the board members of our club that are complained about endlessly on how they run the club should be trusted because of their position? 

Let's face it, this board may have appointed the very few good managers we've had but they also appointed the dross and crap we've had. I don't know why people think a board member knows better based on the position they hold, they may be better informed but their passion to see us succeed is more about finances than results. If we came 7th but turned a profit I'm sure the board would be happy, however the fans would probably be happier with 6th and a gamble of promotion in the play offs at a loss. Those factors make a difference in who the club employ. 

Spike they're only complained about endless by some. Many, like myself, can see mistakes are of course made, but on the whole, when compared to ownership of some other clubs out there, we are in an enviable position. I posted a list once of championship clubs debt, have a look at that and realise our club is being 'sensibly' managed.

I also never said that people should be trusted blindly because of their position only. What I'm saying is this - the board have met LJ, know how we works and speaks. They also know the other candidates and were in the interviews and understand the detailed finances etc of the club. If they say right now that LJ is the best fit for the club, I would trust their judgement over someone (who doesn't work in football, has never run a football club, or even met LJ or seen him work) on an open forum who has decided that LJ will be failure at BCFC because of some criteria they've made up from their couch.

That's not me saying you can't have an opinion, or either is right or wrong, that's me asking, who's judgement is worth trusting more?

And as I've said before, choosing a manager is always a gamble, some pay off, most don't. That is the same for EVERY club in the country. If you can give me examples of clubs that constantly gets it right, please do, but I can give you more examples of clubs who've got it wrong. That's football.

You, along with some others seem automatically suspicious of the board. Im sorry but SL does this for the love of the game, not to make money. That is your opinion that the board care more about making money. Remember this is a man who only a few years ago plunged 35 million of his own cash into the club after we 'had a go' for the premiership, and yet those same people would critise the board for the debt created 'having a go'. Double standards. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I couldn't imagine how some people would be if we had Lerner, or Cellino or Tan as our chairman.

[Andy082005]

Great win yesterday!

Always knew Lee Johnson was the right man for the job 

[SedRA]

10 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Great win yesterday!

Always knew Lee Johnson was the right man for the job 

I reckon Tomarse should close down the forum for 24-48 hours after every defeat to keep the place sane

Although that would've led to quite an inactive forum this season! 

[Barrs Court Red]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I can see Johnson being here for a long time. Looking back, lansdown showed as much loyalty as he could to Cotterill but he had to go. Now I think we have the perfect man who will try his best to follow the lansdown strategy. I could not believe the starting line up, playing 2 up top and 2 attacking wingers, it was no surprise that Fulham dominated in the middle of the park. But to change the system on 30 minutes to impove us before half time and then make those subs was brilliant management. Plenty to look forward to.

That assumes Lansdowns strategy will remain in place for longer than two seasons.

[NickJ]

On ‎12‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 07:23, Alessandro said:

You really are the slipperiest of slippery snakes, it's very amusing. Do you hear how childish you sound, probably not. Now you've deflected and diverted the conversation to a rant about opinion.

And telling someone you are better than them doesn't give your argument validity, just shows everyone you've lost class and control.

Opinions are opinions, nobody is right nobody is wrong, although you seem - hiding behind your pseudonym - to resent my having an opinion.

Oh, feeling got at?? Here's the thing, Mr Factual (NickJ - stickler for factual accuracy, funniest thing i've read on OTIB!), everyone is welcome to an open on an open forum. But equally on that open forum everyone is free to challenge it. 

 

R.E The Scottish premier league, you were happy to use it to suit your argument, and then when you realise LJ played in there and you've made yourself look rather like a tit, you want to move the goal posts again and take it out. That is why it's pointless talking to you any longer.

Apologies for the late reply, however I have been celebrating a superb second half performance at Fulham.

Of course opinions can be challenged, however doing that with personal digs and insults under cover of anonymity is rather cowardly, IMO.

As for the facts, sorry but I am right. I repeat, my original point was that the majority of promoted managers from the Championship have previously managed in the Championship, or played/managed in the Premiership or a top foreign club. I did not define "top foreign club", but I think it is safe to say that Kilmarnock would not be included in that, whereas Celtic or Rangers might - but even if they are not, it hardly dilutes the proof that I have provided. 

I can guarantee you that where I say that my opinions are based on underlying facts, that is because I am certain of that, indeed most of my opinions are based on fact or what I see, not as you claim "gut feeling".

So, in summary, my view is that based on the criteria I have identified as being a common characteristic of promoted clubs from the Championship, we are very unlikely to be promoted from the Championship, under LJ. You can dismiss the criteria as being irrelevant if you like, but you cannot successfully challenge the factual accuracy of the point I have made.

Any opinion on whether LJ is nevertheless a good coach, is an entirely separate debate which, you may have noticed, I have not commented upon.

 

[Robin1988]

Am I the only one who lost all interest in this thread since NickJ and Alessandro started their love spat?

[Fiale]

8 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Am I the only one who lost all interest in this thread since NickJ and Alessandro started their love spat?

 

Yeah - when all your post are basically arguing with one other person then you should take it to Pm's so others don't have to endure it.

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Am I the only one who lost all interest in this thread since NickJ and Alessandro started their love spat?

Yes, it's a struggle following this now. It has lost it's zip, it's a bit like us first half on Saturday. What's more interesting now, perhaps, is to ask if we are worse with Freeman/Kodj, than we are with Bobby/Wingie? 

[The dastardly red]

On 8 March 2016 at 22:31, cityexile said:

We lost today because a goalie who has done ok for us dropped a great big clanger at the end of the game.

Bugger all to do with anything else. Right now what the table does show is just how important winning at Charlton and MK was. If we had drawn tonight, it would have been a decent result, and the gap would still be very tight.

Some on here frankly need to grow a pair. 

Grow a pair? Are you American? Do you say "my bad" as well?

[BigAl&Toby]

On 9 March 2016 at 11:04, Andy082005 said:

Not at all. Again...more myths and lies to fit agendas.

I have always been the type of person/poster to hold my hands up if in wrong. And I have always passed credit on to players or managers when it's deserved.

I will happily come on here and make a public apology if I'm wrong and he keeps us up and we start progressing as a club!   In fact, I'll openly come on here and apologise if he just keeps us up. 

Have you yet? Apologised?

One swallow and all that I grant you and perhaps "The Puppet" took your advice, but I said it last time and I'll say it again albeit now amended slightly.

Bullocks.

I have no doubt LJ will keep us up and take us to greater things.

And if I get that wrong I'll apologise. 

[cityboy]

On 08/03/2016 at 22:32, NickJ said:

Ignore knee jerk reactions to short term results, here is the real issue.

In time, LJ will eventually (A) take us up, (B) take us down, or (C) be sacked.

Is there anyone who seriously believes it will be (A)?

What about (d) stabilise and establish us as a decent championship team and (e) be poached by a bigger club following a successful period in charge here?

On 08/03/2016 at 22:35, Full nelson said:

Bristol vs Bath, glaws, Exeter, wuss, leics, wasps, Saints. These teams will draw crowds of 20k with tickets as high £50. Then when Bristol are in Europe you'll again have big crowds! Rugbt has become a money game and there's money in it but not like football obviously! But the ground will look better and fuller when the rugby play at home xxxxx

£50 for the rugby?!?! No chance, there'd be riots if those prices were attempted. Rugby =\= football

[Alessandro]

2 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Am I the only one who lost all interest in this thread since NickJ and Alessandro started their love spat?

No, I'd lost interest in it aswell, realising the conversation was over, I had moved on to enjoying our win this weekend with fellows OTIB'ers.

Clearly @NickJ didn't get the memo, and after missing out on celebrating with us this weekend is back on Monday (surprise surprise) to lower the mood.

Clearly he either wants to continue to embarrass himself or to have the last word. I'm feeling charitable after the weekend, so he can have it.....I'm done.

Or perhaps for once he will prove me wrong...but I doubt it.

[JamesBCFC]

damn I wanted the last word, I just hadn't worked out which one I was going to use.

[Andy082005]

5 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Have you yet? Apologised?

One swallow and all that I grant you and perhaps "The Puppet" took your advice, but I said it last time and I'll say it again albeit now amended slightly.

Bullocks.

I have no doubt LJ will keep us up and take us to greater things.

And if I get that wrong I'll apologise. 

If Lee Johnson keeps us up, I will hold my hands up and apologise, and will be happy to do so. A little humble pie means Championship football next season....I can certainly handle that .

Going forward...I still have my doubts.

I still don't think Lee Johnson is/was the best man for the job, or even the best applicant ....but I think he is/was the best man for what Lansdown and Co wants. He fits the Bristol City 'DNA'. Or in other words....he does the ****  what he's told!

If we stay up....one.thing is for sure, I'll be expecting Lansdown to put his money where is mouth is this summer. I'll be expecting progress next season, and by progress I mean mid-table/top half positioning all season.

 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

If Lee Johnson keeps us up, I will hold my hands up and apologise, and will be happy to do so. A little humble pie means Championship football next season....I can certainly handle that .

Going forward...I still have my doubts.

I still don't think Lee Johnson is/was the best man for the job, or even the best applicant ....but I think he is/was the best man for what Lansdown and Co wants. He fits the Bristol City 'DNA'. Or in other words....he does the ****  what he's told!

If we stay up....one.thing is for sure, I'll be expecting Lansdown to put his money where is mouth is this summer. I'll be expecting progress next season, and by progress I mean mid-table/top half positioning all season.

 

 

Considering the trillionaire owner who has taken over SGR, they couldn't prise Darrell away. 

Just who should have come in? I don't think we could have considered Mourinho because if he isn't good enough for Chelsea, he's certainly not good enough for City.

[Andy082005]

5 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Considering the trillionaire owner who has taken over SGR, they couldn't prise Darrell away. 

Just who should have come in? I don't think we could have considered Mourinho because if he isn't good enough for Chelsea, he's certainly not good enough for City.

We will never know just how attractive a proposition we were.

I personally feel with the new stadium, top training facilities, Championship football and a billionaire owner...I believe we are a lot more attractive then some give us credit for.

"Over 30 applicants...and you would be shocked at some of the names that have applied" - Mark Ashtons words, not mine.

Now...he could well of meant Ronald McDonald and Krusty  the Clown had applied, admittedly that would have shocked me! ...but the way the question was answered, we were led to believe the shock would have been a pleasant one.

[Cider red]

Johnson has won more games in 8, than cotts did in 27. We need say no more.

[Alessandro]

8 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

We will never know just how attractive a proposition we were.

I personally feel with the new stadium, top training facilities, Championship football and a billionaire owner...I believe we are a lot more attractive then some give us credit for.

"Over 30 applicants...and you would be shocked at some of the names that have applied" - Mark Ashtons words, not mine.

Now...he could well of meant Ronald McDonald and Krusty  the Clown had applied, admittedly that would have shocked me! ...but the way the question was answered, we were led to believe the shock would have been a pleasant one.

I don't doubt we had some bigger name applicants for the job, I suspect we spoke to the likes of Nigel Pearson, Stuart Pearce, Gareth Southgate and considered Warnock.

Of those names I believe that Nigel Pearson was strongly considered, but his back room team demands were a hinderance. I wouldn't have wanted Pearce or Southgate personally either. Neither have a record to get excited about.

Then there was Warnock, but he would only really be considered a fire fighting, short term appointment. LJ was the man who was decided could take us forward, long term. And I believe the board thought we had enough time and quality (with a few additions in jan) to stay up with LJ at the helm, as we weren't cut a drift in the league and clearly, as proven since, under performing with SC in charge.

Can you think of any other names? You can't really argue some mystery applicant 'could' have been a better appointment if you can't give a name!

[JamesBCFC]

I should have applied, that would have been a surprise.

[AshtonGreat]

On 13/03/2016 at 09:56, JonDolman said:

I can see Johnson being here for a long time. Looking back, lansdown showed as much loyalty as he could to Cotterill but he had to go. Now I think we have the perfect man who will try his best to follow the lansdown strategy. I could not believe the starting line up, playing 2 up top and 2 attacking wingers, it was no surprise that Fulham dominated in the middle of the park. But to change the system on 30 minutes to impove us before half time and then make those subs was brilliant management. Plenty to look forward to.

Lansdown has a strategy?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

17 minutes ago, Cider red said:

Johnson has won more games in 8, than cotts did in 27. We need say no more.

I don't get why you see this as an LJ v SC thread at all, I think that SC was rightly sacked and virtually everybody agrees with that.

The thread is more about those who are not fully buying into the LJ appointment in the same way that probably a majority of fans didn't buy into the SC appointment, it's an opinion that's all.

if LJ keeps us up that is part one of his acceptance, even though we have seen that before with GJ, Millen, DMC and SC and only 2 of those then went onto gain success in the following season, so keep us up this season and mid table stability next season, i'll take that because it's progress, what's wrong with that?.