The Humble Realist Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Seeming as there are so many polls out there i thought it would be interesting for us to conduct our own poll on the topic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumpylegs Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Given the usual nature of the comments posted on political threads on this forum - would predict a landslide for leave. Fortunately for the rest of us though, this forum is not even close to representative of the U.K as a whole!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Scrumpylegs said: Given the usual nature of the comments posted on political threads on this forum - would predict a landslide for leave. Fortunately for the rest of us though, this forum is not even close to representative of the U.K as a whole!! It's not even close to representative of City supports as whole !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I'm voting the opposite of Collis1. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Remain. There don't appear to be any decent arguments for leaving and there is zero information on what will happen if we do leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 14 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: Remain. There don't appear to be any decent arguments for leaving and there is zero information on what will happen if we do leave. How can you have information on what will happen if we leave when the government position is to remain? Do you know what will happen if we stay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, screech said: How can you have information on what will happen if we leave when the government position is to remain? Do you know what will happen if we stay? There's not even information/agreement on what Vote Leave campaigners want to happen when we leave. The question basically is "do you think things are currently bad enough in the country to justify taking a blind leap into the dark or do you think things in this country could be significantly worse if we take that blind leap without even knowing what we're leaping into?" I tend toward the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, screech said: How can you have information on what will happen if we leave when the government position is to remain? Do you know what will happen if we stay? We kind of know what will happen if we stay, things will stay roughly as they are. Leave are unable to tell us anything about what will happen if they win. Are we going it completely alone or staying in the EEA? How long until we are out? Will we have good trade agreements with the EU? Will the Brits living abroad have to come home? Etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: There's not even information/agreement on what Vote Leave campaigners want to happen when we leave. The question basically is "do you think things are currently bad enough in the country to justify taking a blind leap into the dark or do you think things in this country could be significantly worse if we take that blind leap without even knowing what we're leaping into?" I tend toward the latter. Then Conservatives are in government, blame Cameron and Osbourne for not providing the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: We kind of know what will happen if we stay, things will stay roughly as they are. Leave are unable to tell us anything about what will happen if they win. Are we going it completely alone or staying in the EEA? How long until we are out? Will we have good trade agreements with the EU? Will the Brits living abroad have to come home? Etc etc. See above, the government wont change unless we hold a general election, they are not providing any information on what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 59 minutes ago, screech said: See above, the government wont change unless we hold a general election, they are not providing any information on what will happen. Why would they? They support Remain! I don't know why this weird idea is out there that the government should be impartial or give out information or ideas that help the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: Why would they? They support Remain! I don't know why this weird idea is out there that the government should be impartial or give out information or ideas that help the opposition. They will be in power after a leave vote, so your question is answered. David Cameron will be negotiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, screech said: They will be in power after a leave vote, so your question is answered. David Cameron will be negotiating. Will he? Cameron wouldn't survive long after a leave vote and it will take YEARS to negotiate an exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: Will he? Cameron wouldn't survive long after a leave vote and it will take YEARS to negotiate an exit. Well if you don't think it will be him as Prime Minister it will be Osbourne or whoever the Tories vote in, I'm not sure why this is important. The person who does it will be acting in the best interest of Britain and it's partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, screech said: Well if you don't think it will be him as Prime Minister it will be Osbourne or whoever the Tories vote in, I'm not sure why this is important. The person who does it will be acting in the best interest of Britain and it's partners. You brought up the Torys would still be in charge so I'm unsure why you think I think it's important who is in charge. The point I was making was that we have zero idea of what situation we will be if we leave. Will we be members of the EEA? Will we get a decent trade deal with the EU? The Leave campaign have not answered this at all. If you think that whoever is in charge will do the best for Britain then why vote leave? The people in charge are currently telling us to stay in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, screech said: Well if you don't think it will be him as Prime Minister it will be Osbourne or whoever the Tories vote in, I'm not sure why this is important. The person who does it will be acting in the best interest of Britain and it's partners. If Cameron goes on the back of the EU vote, it will not be Osborne. You can be sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, screech said: Then Conservatives are in government, blame Cameron and Osbourne for not providing the information. What information can they provide? Nobody has made clear to the public what it is they are voting for so how can Osborne or Cameron, who are campaigning for the other side, expect to know what Vote Leave are campaigning for if Vote Leave don't have a clue themselves. Vote Leave should be providing a clear platform of what it is they are proposing to the British people so the British people can vote on that, knowing what consequences they can expect. Instead the Leave campaign have refused to provide a coherent narrative and failed to explain what they want or what the public should expect? Is i the Swiss model? The Norwegian model? Something else entirely. Nobody can tell you because nobody knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: What information can they provide? Nobody has made clear to the public what it is they are voting for so how can Osborne or Cameron, who are campaigning for the other side, expect to know what Vote Leave are campaigning for if Vote Leave don't have a clue themselves. Vote Leave should be providing a clear platform of what it is they are proposing to the British people so the British people can vote on that, knowing what consequences they can expect. Instead the Leave campaign have refused to provide a coherent narrative and failed to explain what they want or what the public should expect? Is i the Swiss model? The Norwegian model? Something else entirely. Nobody can tell you because nobody knows. You could replace leave with remain in the highlighted portion IMO, the point is because of the shitty way this referendum has been handled by our pathetic excuse for politicians the truth has been lost. What would perk the vote up now is an undertaking by both sides that 18 months after the result of the referendum anything proved to be a falsehood should result in the resignation from politics of it's author, I suspect there wouldn't be too many left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: What information can they provide? Nobody has made clear to the public what it is they are voting for so how can Osborne or Cameron, who are campaigning for the other side, expect to know what Vote Leave are campaigning for if Vote Leave don't have a clue themselves. Vote Leave should be providing a clear platform of what it is they are proposing to the British people so the British people can vote on that, knowing what consequences they can expect. Instead the Leave campaign have refused to provide a coherent narrative and failed to explain what they want or what the public should expect? Is i the Swiss model? The Norwegian model? Something else entirely. Nobody can tell you because nobody knows. They are voting for Britain to be an independent political and trading nation. Vote Leave aren't a political party and you know this, so why keep harping on about them. The governement of the day will be negotiating Britain as an independent nation, whoever is tasked to do it in the government will do so for the benefit of Britain. You are looking into a crystal ball in or out, nobody can predict the future, I don't understand why this keeps getting asked. Do you know if Greece will make their nect payment? Will France elect a right wing government? etc etc. To be honest I doubt it will affect my poxy lot in or out, my working week will be the same, my holidays will be the same, my wage the same, my pension will still be shit if I make it to whatever number they come up with next. I'm happy to go with what ever happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, screech said: They are voting for Britain to be an independent political and trading nation. Vote Leave aren't a political party and you know this, so why keep harping on about them. The governement of the day will be negotiating Britain as an independent nation, whoever is tasked to do it in the government will do so for the benefit of Britain. You are looking into a crystal ball in or out, nobody can predict the future, I don't understand why this keeps getting asked. Do you know if Greece will make their nect payment? Will France elect a right wing government? etc etc. To be honest I doubt it will affect my poxy lot in or out, my working week will be the same, my holidays will be the same, my wage the same, my pension will still be shit if I make it to whatever number they come up with next. I'm happy to go with what ever happens My feelings exactly Sceech, the truth is nobody knows and we are being fed shit, shit and more shit by both sides, is there any wonder that people are confused FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, screech said: They are voting for Britain to be an independent political and trading nation. Vote Leave aren't a political party and you know this, so why keep harping on about them. The governement of the day will be negotiating Britain as an independent nation, whoever is tasked to do it in the government will do so for the benefit of Britain. You are looking into a crystal ball in or out, nobody can predict the future, I don't understand why this keeps getting asked. Do you know if Greece will make their nect payment? Will France elect a right wing government? etc etc. To be honest I doubt it will affect my poxy lot in or out, my working week will be the same, my holidays will be the same, my wage the same, my pension will still be shit if I make it to whatever number they come up with next. I'm happy to go with what ever happens But what does that mean? The public deserve to know whether or not they are voting to leave the EEA, whether or not they are voting to have free trade in place, whether or not freedom of movement will remain in place and whether UK residents in EU countries, and EU residents in the UK, will be at risk of losing their right to remain. Without that information, people are being asked to cast a vote without knowing what they are voting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: But what does that mean? The public deserve to know whether or not they are voting to leave the EEA, whether or not they are voting to have free trade in place, whether or not freedom of movement will remain in place and whether UK residents in EU countries, and EU residents in the UK, will be at risk of losing their right to remain. Without that information, people are being asked to cast a vote without knowing what they are voting for. That has been the case from day one, because of the lies peddled by both sides, nothing has changed in fact it has been made worse by the main mainland EU protagonists Hollande and Merkel saying 'we love you, we want you"........................"we hate you, we will punish you, in the divorce court". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: You could replace leave with remain in the highlighted portion IMO, the point is because of the shitty way this referendum has been handled by our pathetic excuse for politicians the truth has been lost. But we know what will happen if we choose remain. Things stay as they are. There's no need for Remain to set out that vision, we know what it is. Leave on the other hand are asking people to vote out for what exactly? And it's important to know so people can decide, there will be a vast difference between being Leave meaning we would be fully independent of all European treaties and organisations and Leave meaning we remain members of the EEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, BS2 Red said: But we know what will happen if we choose remain. Things stay as they are. There's no need for Remain to set out that vision, we know what it is. Leave on the other hand are asking people to vote out for what exactly? And it's important to know so people can decide, there will be a vast difference between being Leave meaning we would be fully independent of all European treaties and organisations and Leave meaning we remain members of the EEA. and there you have it, it's imperfect, nothing has significantly changed and never will and even the pathetic so called concessions that Dave keeps banging on about have not been ratified and there is a good chance will never be ratified, the EU needs to change radically but when have we actually heard those words from any of it's leaders? or Dave?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: and there you have it, it's imperfect, nothing has significantly changed and never will and even the pathetic so called concessions that Dave keeps banging on about have not been ratified and there is a good chance will never be ratified, the EU needs to change radically but when have we actually heard those words from any of it's leaders?. I'm getting bored of liking your posts to be honest EMB, no offence. Cameron indeed came back with nothing more than Headlines in a paper. It's yesterdays news and it's like those headlines like in 10 years time we will all have so much more spare time because robots will be doing all of our jobs. The best strategy remain can come up with now is hiding David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair et al and just sit it out until after the election, that way it will ensure a victory for them. The more they keep crystal balling and telling people how dreadful their lives will be the more the people will kick back. They are not liked and when you add in that they are running the country down you have a toxic campaign. Neither in or out can prove they know what will happen, it's impossible. Both options to me are equal. 40 hours a week, 20 days holiday, bills to be paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 14 minutes ago, screech said: I'm getting bored of liking your posts to be honest EMB, no offence. Cameron indeed came back with nothing more than Headlines in a paper. It's yesterdays news and it's like those headlines like in 10 years time we will all have so much more spare time because robots will be doing all of our jobs. The best strategy remain can come up with now is hiding David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair et al and just sit it out until after the election, that way it will ensure a victory for them. The more they keep crystal balling and telling people how dreadful their lives will be the more the people will kick back. They are not liked and when you add in that they are running the country down you have a toxic campaign. Neither in or out can prove they know what will happen, it's impossible. Both options to me are equal. 40 hours a week, 20 days holiday, bills to be paid. With driverless cars, freight, longhaul, mechanics, parts, supply chains, car body workshops, garages etc we are going to see a hell of a lot of jobs going just due to them, and that's within a decade probably. There are container ports that are so automated that they have cut staff by over 70% and operate at higher capacity now.. they were well paid manual labour jobs - and along with mechanics, etc we need to see a lot more flexibility in employment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Fiale said: With driverless cars, freight, longhaul, mechanics, parts, supply chains, car body workshops, garages etc we are going to see a hell of a lot of jobs going just due to them, and that's within a decade probably. There are container ports that are so automated that they have cut staff by over 70% and operate at higher capacity now.. they were well paid manual labour jobs - and along with mechanics, etc we need to see a lot more flexibility in employment.... Simples employ everybody unemployed from automation in border control and customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I really do think there will be a universal guaranteed income for everyone in my life time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, screech said: I'm getting bored of liking your posts to be honest EMB, no offence. Cameron indeed came back with nothing more than Headlines in a paper. It's yesterdays news and it's like those headlines like in 10 years time we will all have so much more spare time because robots will be doing all of our jobs. The best strategy remain can come up with now is hiding David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair et al and just sit it out until after the election, that way it will ensure a victory for them. The more they keep crystal balling and telling people how dreadful their lives will be the more the people will kick back. They are not liked and when you add in that they are running the country down you have a toxic campaign. Neither in or out can prove they know what will happen, it's impossible. Both options to me are equal. 40 hours a week, 20 days holiday, bills to be paid. No offence taken. Here's another for you, the remainers keep banging on about the leavers being a single issue campaign, that is exactly what Dave made it when he promised a referendum to head off UKIP in the first place, of course to be honest he almost certainly never believed in his wildest dreams that he would have to follow through with that promise because he never thought that he would win the last election, so the dream became a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, screech said: To be honest I doubt it will affect my poxy lot in or out, my working week will be the same, my holidays will be the same, my wage the same, my pension will still be shit if I make it to whatever number they come up with next. I'm happy to go with what ever happens I wouldn't be so sure of that Screech. It's those with the poxy lot that will suffer and always do suffer in a recession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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