freeman

[Sleepy1968]

11 hours ago, Buckeyed said:

I think the issue was that we were forced to play Golbourne on Saturday rather than Bryan. Freeman was continually looking for the overlap, however this is not how Golbourne plays.

I agree. You'll not often find Golbourne advancing much over the half way line, so Freeman had limited riskless options.

The manager summed it up quite nicely: basically we stop the ball open play becomes a series of set pieces which teams find comparatively easy to defend. Goals come from dynamic play and we need to take risks in the final third to open up defenses. This is something Tomlin does naturally, Bobby Reid is getting better at, and Freeman for whatever reason refuses to or can't do. 

[AshtonGreat]

12 hours ago, The Bard said:

Couldn't disagree with you more.  I thought Tomlin could stagger around with a can of 8ace and still produce more attacking threat than Freeman.   As others have said on this thread and in the countless others last season, he plays with his head down, meaning he needs far too many touches and time before considering delivering the ball.  He clearly has the ability and technique but until he properly adapts his game he will be frustrating, ineffective and slow the game down.  I'd rather see Bobby Reid have a dodgy game knowing that when he's on his game we are a better side,  than watch Freeman do the same things and see the same results.  We have to acknowledge that Cotts' decision to use him in the middle worked at the level we were at with the quality of team we had and the lack of quality opposition we had.  He was completely exposed last season in the middle and needs to wake up and smell the coffee if he is to have a future with us.  One suspects he'll end up at either low end Championship or high end League 1.

So he'll be staying with us then?

[AshtonGreat]

In case anyone needs reminding of Freeman's performance on Saturday. Two fantastic crosses that could and should've led to goals, as well as a good run and shot that was only thwarted by a last-gasp block.

[Londoner]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

In case anyone needs reminding of Freeman's performance on Saturday. Two fantastic crosses that could and should've led to goals, as well as a good run and shot that was only thwarted by a last-gasp block.

So Tammy was shoved in the back by Lascelles while shoulder barged by Clark....even clearer penalty than I first thought.

[Super]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

In case anyone needs reminding of Freeman's performance on Saturday. Two fantastic crosses that could and should've led to goals, as well as a good run and shot that was only thwarted by a last-gasp block.

I don't need reminding thanks. He got worse as the game went on.

[AshtonGreat]

33 minutes ago, Super said:

I don't need reminding thanks. He got worse as the game went on.

The aforementioned shot was in the second half. To be fair, I don't remember any of our players doing anything of note in the second half.

[Leveller]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

The aforementioned shot was in the second half. To be fair, I don't remember any of our players doing anything of note in the second half.

No point - Super's eyes are closed whenever Freeman does anything good.

[Davefevs]

I don't mind people's opinions that overall a Freeman has disappointed, but that doesn't mean every game he plays is not up to scratch.  He was fairly bright on Saturday, especially first half.  Of course he's got his deficiencies - but he was no less than a 6/10 for me on Saturday.

[Red_Nine]

Think freeman generally performances ok, does create 2-3 goal scoring opportunities per game (mainly crosses) it's his lack of goals and our lack of taking chances that generate negative comments towards him, if he scored 6-8 goals a season he'd be a top player, 

well in my opinion anyway 

 

p.s for such a good striker of a football I've never seen anyone panic like he has for the last 12 month when the ball lands at his feet 18 yards out! 

[exAtyeoMax]

I think Luke's doing alright. He definitely needs more confidence in front of goal, perhaps some sports psychology. He looks trimmer than last year and a lot brighter.

[054123]

On 21/08/2016 at 08:48, bs3 said:

I thought Freeman played really well in the first and was a threat going forward.

In the second half when he moved across to right I thought he still played well but he cut into to many times to get the ball on to his his left foot.

I would pick Freemam over O'Dowda every time on the left.

I think this is the problem in that he posed no threat what so ever and became very easy to mark or indeed let have possession.  People then think he has had an impact on the game purely because he touched the ball a lot

 

[Davefevs]

The highlights also missed off the chance for Abraham in second half where Freeman went down the left and clipped a great ball into the far post.  Abraham swivelled a left foot volley but Lascelles got there at the same time to thwart the chance.  So he does pose a threat, but agree re lack of composure.

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 8/21/2016 at 00:07, bearded_red said:

52 games at Ashton Gate. 0 goals.

How many goals has Pack scored at Ashton Gate in that time?

Or another midfielder, Korey Smith?

Or Bobby Reid?

Have any of them scored a lot of goals at AG?

We have plenty of regular midfield players who don't score many goals, at AG or anywhere else.

Why are you fixated on Freeman?

[bearded_red]

10 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

How many goals has Pack scored at Ashton Gate in that time?

Or another midfielder, Korey Smith?

Or Bobby Reid?

Have any of them scored a lot of goals at AG?

We have plenty of regular midfield players who don't score many goals, at AG or anywhere else.

Why are you fixated on Freeman?

 

If you think Korey Smith or Pack are comparable with Freeman than I'd suggest football isn't the game for you. As it happens I do actually think that both should be looking to chip in more than they do, but goals from them would be a bonus.

As for Reid, don't know how many games, 4 goals though? 3 since April? Not good enough to be honest and even as a fully paid up member of the Bobby Reid fan club I've said all along that a player of his type needs to offer a goal threat and I hope the recent upturn is more than just a flukey run.

Im 'fixated' because I find it utterly ludicrous that an 'attacking' player can go 2 whole seasons without scoring a goal at his home ground. Laughable in fact. Genuinely stunned that such pointlessness in front of goal from an attacking player isn't deemed worthy of note. You can add the fact that he created one goal in open play all of last season as well if you want.

Even before we signed him Cotterill said Freeman doesn't score enough goals, no goals in 52 (fifty-two) home games would suggest he hasn't exactly improved.

[adamski]

He's out of his depth and can't swim at this level!

if we want to push on then a much better midfield is required. Sorry guys Dill the Dog must find a tree to dribble round else where!

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, bearded_red said:

 

If you think Korey Smith or Pack are comparable with Freeman than I'd suggest football isn't the game for you. As it happens I do actually think that both should be looking to chip in more than they do, but goals from them would be a bonus.

As for Reid, don't know how many games, 4 goals though? 3 since April? Not good enough to be honest and even as a fully paid up member of the Bobby Reid fan club I've said all along that a player of his type needs to offer a goal threat and I hope the recent upturn is more than just a flukey run.

Im 'fixated' because I find it utterly ludicrous that an 'attacking' player can go 2 whole seasons without scoring a goal at his home ground. Laughable in fact. Genuinely stunned that such pointlessness in front of goal from an attacking player isn't deemed worthy of note. You can add the fact that he created one goal in open play all of last season as well if you want.

Even before we signed him Cotterill said Freeman doesn't score enough goals, no goals in 52 (fifty-two) home games would suggest he hasn't exactly improved.

They are absolutely comparable, and football is very much the game for me.

Freeman, Pack, Smith (and Reid) are all midfield players.

Their job requires stamina, determination in the tackle, the ability to pass, fight for the ball, mark and close down opponents, track back, link up with each other, spread the ball to the wings, feed the forwards, run up and down for 90 minutes etc. etc. etc.

All basics for a midfield player in the modern game. On top of that you have defensively minded midfielders, and more offensive and creative ones, but either way all of them generally get the opportunity to shoot during a game, sometimes several times. In the main though they will try and feed a forward in a better position or be the one crossing the ball. The point is for them goalscoring itself is not a high priority, or a big part of their game. It's a bonus for most midfielders, and it's a fairly rare one who can do all of the above and weigh in with more than a handful of goals per season and such players are very highly prized assets indeed. 

Midfield players are not strikers, to be judged on their goal tallies, but on what they add to the team as a whole.

Why are your expectations so high of Freeman, and not equally high of the other midfielders whose record is little better?

Have you been keeping a similar list of barren AG runs for all of them?

I doubt it. It seems to me you've just decided you really don't like Freeman and it's a convenient stick to mock and beat him with.

[bearded_red]

7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

They are absolutely comparable, and football is very much the game for me.

Freeman, Pack, Smith (and Reid) are all midfield players.

Their job requires stamina, determination in the tackle, the ability to pass, fight for the ball, mark and close down opponents, track back, link up with each other, spread the ball to the wings, feed the forwards, run up and down for 90 minutes etc. etc. etc.

All basics for a midfield player in the modern game. On top of that you have defensively minded midfielders, and more offensive and creative ones, but either way all of them generally get the opportunity to shoot during a game, sometimes several times. In the main though they will try and feed a forward in a better position or be the one crossing the ball. The point is for them goalscoring itself is not a high priority, or a big part of their game. It's a bonus for most midfielders, and it's a fairly rare one who can do all of the above and weigh in with more than a handful of goals per season and such players are very highly prized assets indeed. 

Midfield players are not strikers, to be judged on their goal tallies, but on what they add to the team as a whole.

Why are your expectations so high of Freeman, and not equally high of the other midfielders whose record is little better?

Have you been keeping a similar list of barren AG runs for all of them?

I doubt it. It seems to me you've just decided you really don't like Freeman and it's a convenient stick to mock and beat him with.

What are you talking about?

Can you not see that Freeman is a completely different player to Smith/Pack and plays in a completely different way? Do you not see that they are asked to do different jobs and their performances are rated for their ability to do completely different aspects of the game?

Smith and Pack will be valued for completely different things. How many times did they regain possession? How many passes did they make? How far did they run? Freeman is surely there to be a threat? To create chances? To score goals? If all midfielders are the same?! Lets just play Freeman and O'Dowda holding midfield on Saturday and see how we get on. At it's very simplest the defenders and midfielders like O'Neil, Smith and Pack are there to get a foundation in the game and provide a platform (how well did O'Neil do this Saturday!) for the attacking players further forward to win the game. One deflected goal and one assist in open play in a season ain't winning too many games.

N'Golo Kante is not expected to do the same job as Eden Hazard. Fernandinho is unlikely to create or score as many as Kevin De Bruyne. If Eric Dier doesn't score all season nobody will really notice whereas they will if Christian Eriksen doesn't. Gary Neville was only saying on Sky the other day how someone with Hazard's ability needs to score more often. You clearly rate Freeman, if he is the talented player you make out surely he should be scoring more goals?

If at the end of the season O'Dowda or Tomlin haven't scored a goal that would be rather disappointing. If Gary O'Neil hasn't then it isn't even worthy of mention.

Who said my expectations of Freeman are high? I'm hardly saying he should get twenty goals am I? I'm saying that going over two years without scoring a goal at home, scoring one highly deflected goal last season, is dreadful. I repeat again, the guy that signed him for this club said he doesn't score enough goals. He was spot on.

As for the last two sentences, give me a break. I've seen you pop up and try and be a killjoy on every single bit of positive feedback Reid has deservedly received over the last few months. Somebody praises him for how he played Saturday? You have to pipe up about the manager picking the right games for him? As if playing deeper in midfield against Newcastle and Diame doesn't prove the manager rates him. (Personally I wouldn't ever really play him that deep, certainly not against teams as strong as Newcastle). You piped up on another thread today without having even seen Reid's goal and tried to downplay it by saying he was just in the right place at the right time (as if that's a bad thing), when actually it is decent, composed finish.

As I've said I would never judge Pack, O'Neil or Korey Smith's games on the goals they score in any way, but since you've asked no I haven't kept a 'list of barren runs', but just because I actually have quite an interest in this club (and arguably a bit of a nerd) I could tell you that O'Neil hasn't scored at Ashton Gate (well you did ask), Pack hasn't scored at home since the 8-2 Walsall game (that could be wrong), and Korey hasn't ever scored a league goal for us. Doesn't really fit into your narrative that I know that last one though as Korey is possibly my favourite ever City player and apparently I'm only aware of Freeman's complete lack of goals as I want to 'mock and beat' him.

 

 

[AshtonGreat]

8 hours ago, adamski said:

He's out of his depth and can't swim at this level!

if we want to push on then a much better midfield is required. Sorry guys Dill the Dog must find a tree to dribble round else where!

Dill the Dog, who was our most dangerous player against probably the best team in the division

[Nogbad the Bad]

14 hours ago, bearded_red said:

What are you talking about?

Can you not see that Freeman is a completely different player to Smith/Pack and plays in a completely different way? Do you not see that they are asked to do different jobs and their performances are rated for their ability to do completely different aspects of the game?

Smith and Pack will be valued for completely different things. How many times did they regain possession? How many passes did they make? How far did they run? Freeman is surely there to be a threat? To create chances? To score goals? If all midfielders are the same?! Lets just play Freeman and O'Dowda holding midfield on Saturday and see how we get on. At it's very simplest the defenders and midfielders like O'Neil, Smith and Pack are there to get a foundation in the game and provide a platform (how well did O'Neil do this Saturday!) for the attacking players further forward to win the game. One deflected goal and one assist in open play in a season ain't winning too many games.

N'Golo Kante is not expected to do the same job as Eden Hazard. Fernandinho is unlikely to create or score as many as Kevin De Bruyne. If Eric Dier doesn't score all season nobody will really notice whereas they will if Christian Eriksen doesn't. Gary Neville was only saying on Sky the other day how someone with Hazard's ability needs to score more often. You clearly rate Freeman, if he is the talented player you make out surely he should be scoring more goals?

If at the end of the season O'Dowda or Tomlin haven't scored a goal that would be rather disappointing. If Gary O'Neil hasn't then it isn't even worthy of mention.

Who said my expectations of Freeman are high? I'm hardly saying he should get twenty goals am I? I'm saying that going over two years without scoring a goal at home, scoring one highly deflected goal last season, is dreadful. I repeat again, the guy that signed him for this club said he doesn't score enough goals. He was spot on.

As for the last two sentences, give me a break. I've seen you pop up and try and be a killjoy on every single bit of positive feedback Reid has deservedly received over the last few months. Somebody praises him for how he played Saturday? You have to pipe up about the manager picking the right games for him? As if playing deeper in midfield against Newcastle and Diame doesn't prove the manager rates him. (Personally I wouldn't ever really play him that deep, certainly not against teams as strong as Newcastle). You piped up on another thread today without having even seen Reid's goal and tried to downplay it by saying he was just in the right place at the right time (as if that's a bad thing), when actually it is decent, composed finish.

As I've said I would never judge Pack, O'Neil or Korey Smith's games on the goals they score in any way, but since you've asked no I haven't kept a 'list of barren runs', but just because I actually have quite an interest in this club (and arguably a bit of a nerd) I could tell you that O'Neil hasn't scored at Ashton Gate (well you did ask), Pack hasn't scored at home since the 8-2 Walsall game (that could be wrong), and Korey hasn't ever scored a league goal for us. Doesn't really fit into your narrative that I know that last one though as Korey is possibly my favourite ever City player and apparently I'm only aware of Freeman's complete lack of goals as I want to 'mock and beat' him.

 

 

As I said, there are defensive minded midfield players and more offensive, creative ones, but all get the opportunity for a shot or 2 during the game.

I don't think there's any real excuse for players like Pack, Smith, and O'Neil to score so infrequently. You do need midfield players to weigh in with a few each over the season in a fairly attacking team like ours, and yes, that includes Freeman. Lots of free kicks are taken by midfield players for instance. and, no, not just by Freeman.

You've admitted how much you rate Reid, almost it seems to the point where he can do no wrong, but there's really no need to have a hate figure to compare him with just because they might sometimes compete for the same position.

Imo, you over rate Reid (who is improving, and I have noted such and complimented him in recent posts, contrary to your comments above) and you under rate Freeman who offers far more than goals. That he had few assists last season does not mean he didn't create good chances for others, it may well be there were many occasions when they simply didn't take them. Similar to the the 2 superlative crosses he put in against Newcastle last week.

How many times has Freeman hit the woodwork during those 50 odd games? Have you kept a count? I can remember a few, and if 4 of them had gone in instead your obsessive count would be obsolete. It really is as close as a coat of paint sometimes, and it's obviously affected his confidence that he's been bereft of good fortune at AG. He needs one to go in off his backside - mind you, if so, Kid and yourself would probably belittle it so much it would barely count in your eyes, being unable to accept he might be well overdue a bit of good fortune in that respect.

I'm surprised a self confessed student of the game like yourself can't see beyond building up an unfathomable personal dislike of a player - is it because he doesn't have a beard? - to see that Freeman is an extremely good player and a big asset to BCFC. Why is it that opposing fans have so often made a point of praising him? He's just not been playing at his absolute peak for some time now - although real signs recently he's rediscovering his best form - and a goal or 2 would almost certainly make a huge difference to his confidence and set him on his way with more to follow.

As would team mates taking one or two of the very good good chances he does create, but that some fans seem incapable of seeing.

If you've written Luke Freeman off at Bristol City then I think you'll be proved very wrong indeed.

 

[bearded_red]

30 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

As I said, there are defensive minded midfield players and more offensive, creative ones, but all get the opportunity for a shot or 2 during the game.

I don't think there's any real excuse for players like Pack, Smith, and O'Neil to score so infrequently. You do need midfield players to weigh in with a few each over the season in a fairly attacking team like ours, and yes, that includes Freeman. Lots of free kicks are taken by midfield players for instance. and, no, not just by Freeman.

You've admitted how much you rate Reid, almost it seems to the point where he can do no wrong, but there's really no need to have a hate figure to compare him with just because they might sometimes compete for the same position.

Imo, you over rate Reid (who is improving, and I have noted such and complimented him in recent posts, contrary to your comments above) and you under rate Freeman who offers far more than goals. That he had few assists last season does not mean he didn't create good chances for others, it may well be there were many occasions when they simply didn't take them. Similar to the the 2 superlative crosses he put in against Newcastle last week.

How many times has Freeman hit the woodwork during those 50 odd games? Have you kept a count? I can remember a few, and if 4 of them had gone in instead your obsessive count would be obsolete. It really is as close as a coat of paint sometimes, and it's obviously affected his confidence that he's been bereft of good fortune at AG. He needs one to go in off his backside - mind you, if so, Kid and yourself would probably belittle it so much it would barely count in your eyes, being unable to accept he might be well overdue a bit of good fortune in that respect.

I'm surprised a self confessed student of the game like yourself can't see beyond building up an unfathomable personal dislike of a player - is it because he doesn't have a beard? - to see that Freeman is an extremely good player and a big asset to BCFC. Why is it that opposing fans have so often made a point of praising him? He's just not been playing at his absolute peak for some time now - although real signs recently he's rediscovering his best form - and a goal or 2 would almost certainly make a huge difference to his confidence and set him on his way with more to follow.

As would team mates taking one or two of the very good good chances he does create, but that some fans seem incapable of seeing.

If you've written Luke Freeman off at Bristol City then I think you'll be proved very wrong indeed.

 

First of all. 'Self confessed student of the game'? Literally never uttered those words, or nor would I. I mean we can all make things up..

'Obsessive count', 'Personal dislike of a player', 'hate figure'. Not sure where or what that is based on. All I did was provide a fact. I'd argue that pointing out that he has never scored a goal at Ashton Gate is relevant on a thread discussing the merits of an attacking player. Also I mean pointing out that my 'obsessive count' would be obsolete had he scored is pointing out the obvious somewhat? Would a statistic about him not scoring exist if he had scored? No, probably not..

We're still in August and someone on another thread (incorrectly) posted how many games Kodjia had gone without scoring? Is that 'obsessive'?

The hypocrisy is superb though. So you feel there is no excuse for Pack, Smith or O'Neil to not score goals and state they should chip in with a few a season, but then feel the need to pick some argument with me for pointing out that Freeman (a much more attacking player) has a poor record in front of goal?

The bit about me thinking Reid can do no wrong is stunning. Other than state the fact that I happen to be a fan of his (which I undoubtedly am, sorry), the only other things I've said about him on this thread are that up until recently, like Freeman, he didn't score enough goals (in fact I openly admitted that the recent upturn may end up being no more than a flukey purple patch) and that I wouldn't ever really play him in that deeper role which he played Saturday. But yeah, I've definitely made out he's absolutely perfect..

Again, back to the obvious hypocrisy pouring out of your post at every orifice, all I've done is a post a statistic on a thread about the guy and criticise his lack of goals. Nothing more. As I stated beforehand, you seem to pop up with a view to the contrary or feel the need to qualify any praise on almost every post in which Reid gets mentioned. And yet I'm the one apparently creating a 'hate figure' because one player competes for a place with another.

Also have a word with yourself about trying to suggest that me or KITR would try and downplay any goal from Freeman if/when he scores. We've all seen you try and take any credit away from Reid's goal this week before you'd even seen it. If Freeman gets himself in the box and scuffs one in/scores off his backside I would quite happily congratulate him for getting into that area. It's pointless me saying anything about Freeman as apparently I hate him, but actually I've pretty much always said he needs to try and get himself in the box more so should he do so and get a scrappy goal than it would show signs that his game is clearly improving. For example Wagstaff's goal against Bolton last season, has Freeman ever made a run into that area? If he starts doing so than goals may begin to come slightly easier for him.

I'd also argue that the two crosses in question are slightly closer to 'good' rather than 'superlative', but again, that's probably just because I 'hate' him. Happen to think he played well first half Saturday (as well as off the bench against Wigan), I won't comment on the second half though as it will probably fuel that 'hate' fire.

[adamski]

15 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Dill the Dog, who was our most dangerous player against probably the best team in the division

Dream on !

[cidercity1987]

Bobby Reid achieved the same in 6 mins against Derby in April, a goal and assist in open play, as Freeman had in the whole season up to that point.

[AshtonGreat]

9 hours ago, adamski said:

Dream on !

I don't need to dream. The evidence is on the video

[adamski]

8 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't need to dream. The evidence is on the video

Yup, 2 mins proves it conclusively ...

Now settle back and watch your CBeebies program like a nice boy!

[Port Said Red]

Helped turn the game today, The burst through their back line on the first half and a tame shot which the goalkeeper made a meal of, boosted everyones confidence. Was a constant thorn for the first part of the 2nd half. Much much better.

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Helped turn the game today, The burst through their back line on the first half and a tame shot which the goalkeeper made a meal of, boosted everyones confidence. Was a constant thorn for the first part of the 2nd half. Much much better.

Played a fine ball to find Tomlin too, switching play to find him in space to run at Villa before shooting and setting up Tammy's goal..

[Donkeeebles]

On 22 August 2016 at 11:29, Londoner said:

His confidence is shot. Would prefer to see him in the middle but needs to lose weight!!!

I'm assuming you're talking about Freeman (Apologies if not) 

i thought exactly the same when I watched the 2 games out in Spain pre season, that was until he took his top off after the LA Manga game. There isn't an ounce of fat on him, 6 packed right up, he looks bigger than he did promotion season but it's definitely muscle not fat 

[Offside]

I agree that Freeman played well today, building on his decent performance vs Newcastle. Hopefully this will be a good season for him.

[redfieldred]

8 minutes ago, Offside said:

I agree that Freeman played well today, building on his decent performance vs Newcastle. Hopefully this will be a good season for him.

I'm desperate for him to score. I know he can cos I saw it several times in late 14 early 15. I really think a goal will see him lift his play more. He was good today and last week. Not good v Norwich though. 

[Red-Robbo]

For me, the usual one touch too many syndrome. He needs to calm down. 

He's a talented lad however and I agree that that first Championship goal will lift him right up.