Another fantastic performance - now with added grit!

[Robbored]

On 27/09/2016 at 23:49, Super said:

Not sure about that, the only threat they had came down our left side. JB struggled with thst winger all night.

If you think that, you weren't watching the same game as me. 

JB was superb and at one point second half slipped over against their winger but got up instantly and tackled the guy. Fantastic athleticism on his part. 

He was superb all game.

[Super]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

If you think that, you weren't watching the same game as me. 

JB was superb and at one point second half slipped over against their winger but got up instantly and tackled the guy. Fantastic athleticism on his part. 

He was superb all game.

Think my post was about Leeds game a year ago!

[kevthered]

:laugh: ...Keep up Robbo

[spudski]

10 hours ago, Olé said:

This is pretty desperate stuff digging up old reports selectively. You've picked out my comments from one of our two good games last season vs Fulham and Leeds to insist that this is a repeat of last season and that I said the same all along then.

Actually last season outside of those games and including our first two away games of last season at Wycombe and Burton I was consistent in highlighting how limited our forward play was and how little control of games our midfield got.

This is obviously nothing like this season nor my summaries of games this season, and mentioning one off praise for Tomlin is a bit rich when I was mainly on his case from early in the season and was called out by a lot of folks on here for doing so.

Literally no idea what point you're trying to make but it isn't a very good one. City this season and last, are chalk and cheese, the game at Norwich was good evidence of that and today was more of the same. All games that we'd have struggled last year.

I think the only lesson that can be learnt from all this mate...is that when a new manager/coach comes in, and he's trying to implement a new style, new coaching, new players,,new ideas etc with a long term plan, then it takes time.

Yes our season was horrible in parts to watch last season....very fragmented and only in parts did we see what style of play LJ was trying to achieve.

It's a transformation period. And mistakes will happen, either on the field or off it.

Players are targeted and brought in to play the system he wants....hence needing so many transfer windows. The coaching has to be ingrained over a period of time, and the players have to fully understand what their jobs are.

In that period of transition....mistakes and bad performances happen.

That period of time has happened, and we are starting to bear fruit from it. It's still an ongoing learning and improving process....but for anything to work long term, it has to have a transformation period, which does take time.

You said to me last season, that you couldn't understand what I and a few others saw that was positive. Change was the positive....and that transition in what we were trying to do, but not necessarily achieving.

Unfortunately we as fans fall into that trap of seeing seasons being successful or not, just on that one seasons performance.

As long as you don't go down, if you are in 'transition', you need more than one season. Often because of the transfer window system, contracts and their lengths on players owned, and what money we can release in the budgets....especially now with FFP.

If a coach or manager comes in and is told....'right that's your players, you aren't getting anymore', then you would have to play to a system that suited those individuals best.

However...LJ has come in, and the Club have a plan on how they want to operate. LJ has been given that opportunity to turn things around for the better...long term.

That all takes more than one reason to implement.

Hope that makes sense....and is not any dig at all. As I enjoy all your posts and reports. Just thought it was a good opportunity to explain myself when you asked before. :-)

[SedRA]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think the only lesson that can be learnt from all this mate...is that when a new manager/coach comes in, and he's trying to implement a new style, new coaching, new players,,new ideas etc with a long term plan, then it takes time.

Yes our season was horrible in parts to watch last season....very fragmented and only in parts did we see what style of play LJ was trying to achieve.

It's a transformation period. And mistakes will happen, either on the field or off it.

Players are targeted and brought in to play the system he wants....hence needing so many transfer windows. The coaching has to be ingrained over a period of time, and the players have to fully understand what their jobs are.

In that period of transition....mistakes and bad performances happen.

That period of time has happened, and we are starting to bear fruit from it. It's still an ongoing learning and improving process....but for anything to work long term, it has to have a transformation period, which does take time.

You said to me last season, that you couldn't understand what I and a few others saw that was positive. Change was the positive....and that transition in what we were trying to do, but not necessarily achieving.

Unfortunately we as fans fall into that trap of seeing seasons being successful or not....as long as you don't go down, if you are in 'transition' you need more than one season. Often because of the transfer window system, contracts and their lengths on players owned and what money we can release in the budgets....especially now with FFP.

If a coach or manager comes in and is told....'right that's your players, you aren't getting anymore, then you would have to play to a system that suited those individuals best.

However...LJ has come in and the Club have a plan on how they want to operate. LJ has been given that opportunity to turn things around for the better...long term.

That all takes more than one reason to implement.

Hope that makes sense....and is not any dig at all. As I enjoy all your posts and reports. Just thought it was a good opportunity to explain myself when you asked before. :-)

Yeah, fair play Spud, you stood firm in defence of this argument last season. 

Personally, I was someone who liked this viewpoint and hoped it was the case, but without being able to see what was going on behind the scenes was very much losing faith/belief by the time of Preston away. Although I was pretty much back on side by the end of the season as I think you could already tell from performances/interviews that LJ had learned a lot by then.   

Glad to see it looks like you were probably right! 

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, RedSA said:

Yeah, fair play Spud, you stood firm in defence of this argument last season. 

Personally, I was someone who liked this viewpoint and hoped it was the case, but without being able to see what was going on behind the scenes was very much losing faith/belief by the time of Preston away. Although I was pretty much back on side by the end of the season as I think you could already tell from performances/interviews that LJ had learned a lot by then.   

Glad to see it looks like you were probably right! 

I take no pleasure in it mate...just a simple realisation that as fans, we are wayyyyyy too reactionary to what happens in one season or over a period of games.

It still may go wrong results and performance wise...all end of situations can arise. Death, Tax's and football managers being sacked are all given in this life.

A few injuries here, suspensions ( Pack for example will be out after so many cards, so a forced change ) trying out new ideas and players. They don't always come off....and in this league it's the fine margins that count between points or none.

There will come a time when we will be starting to play our youngsters like Vyner more. That's our new philosophy...bring on the academy kids quickly with a faster path to the first team and more opportunities.

Mistakes and errors will happen....we could lose games because of it. It's a catch 22....nothing is perfect. But sometimes along that journey, you have to take thiose steps backward, or 'hits'....for the strength and health long term.

In amongst all of that, you are going to have an opposition trying to stop you.

What worries me most as a fan, is the reaction of some, if our performances throughout the season don't reflect on what we've seen of late. It's just not that simple. This league is so tough, two wins, can make a huge difference in your standings.

Teams will have watched the way we've set up to play, and will find ways of spoiling it....just like yesterday. If we are seen as a threat, then teams will set up to spoil and play to percentages. It could get really messy.

My hope is, now that we have depth to our squad, we can freshen things up when it's needed. That depth and understanding of what to do, has taken time though....which is what was needed.

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

If you think that, you weren't watching the same game as me. 

JB was superb and at one point second half slipped over against their winger but got up instantly and tackled the guy. Fantastic athleticism on his part. 

He was superb all game.

You've had a stinker

[Tom Fleuriot]

On 9/26/2017 at 08:11, glos old boy said:

This and other reading material from this time last year; yes we are doing great.....so far....but we were then as well; in fact 5th on Oct 1st; so I am remaining cautious .....for now.

 

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think to begin with it’s just a bit of a weird thing to do. Sorting through someone’s posts from a year ago just to get some ammunition is slightly odd.

The poster in question was also very selective with the reports he chose and used to make his point.

The other factor is that ‘glos old boy’ remains inherently negative for no real reason. Whilst Olé’s match reports might be well thought out and considered, I can’t say the same for the views of ‘gob’ who just seems to criticise absolutely everything.

 

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Come on mate, my post was clearly not aggressive but if it came across that way I apologise to the poster concerned, although I suspect he was stirring the pot and got what he wanted. I was typing it one handed on my mobile on the train back to London while having a drink with another City fan and discussing another very good result, and seeing the pretty desperate post did dampen my mood little - if I was defensive it was only of the validity of my view that City are playing really well this season.

The implication of the post, which I read as quite snide, was that I always shower praise on City and that this season is nothing new, and a whole report from a year ago (of a very good game) was dug up as evidence. Frankly that's a bit odd when a) last season I was often critical of City (and Tomlin, of whom my 'praise' this one occasion was apparently part of the OP's 'point') and was called out for being so and b) this season the praise I've shared is fairly obviously deserved to anyone who's seen City.

Fully understand @Phileas Fogg and @Olé taking it in that manner.  I just took the OP (requoted above) at more face value.  Also felt that specific match report was detailed, had some responses, and was generated at this time a year ago after two very good results .  Therefore it is the most sensible post to select if saying that we should not get carried away.  I personally found it interesting to re-read it now as evidence of where most City fans felt we were at precisely the same time in the calendar last season.

I stress that as an expat I always go straight to your excellent match reports, and agree that they are well-thought out and considered.  And I agree that there feels to be something different this season to last.  So really not having a dig.  I just didn't read any stirring or implication either that Ole always showers praise or is inaccurate, or even that there is no change from last year.  More a reminder to be cautious because what looked like an upward curve last year went rapidly south.  

But then, I'm incapable of spotting subtext at the best of times...

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Tom Fleuriot said:

 

 

Fully understand @Phileas Fogg and @Olé taking it in that manner.  I just took the OP (requoted above) at more face value.  Also felt that specific match report was detailed, had some responses, and was generated at this time a year ago after two very good results .  Therefore it is the most sensible post to select if saying that we should not get carried away.  I personally found it interesting to re-read it now as evidence of where most City fans felt we were at precisely the same time in the calendar last season.

I stress that as an expat I always go straight to your excellent match reports, and agree that they are well-thought out and considered.  And I agree that there feels to be something different this season to last.  So really not having a dig.  I just didn't read any stirring or implication either that Ole always showers praise or is inaccurate, or even that there is no change from last year.  More a reminder to be cautious because what looked like an upward curve last year went rapidly south.  

But then, I'm incapable of spotting subtext at the best of times...

I see that. I think that there is so many variables in football that it’s almost pointless comparing two seasons - just because you had a similar start in the one before.

All the indicators, visual analysis, statistics, personnel - lots are different. Football, particularly in this league, is so unpredictable that I think comparing two seasons is a very unreliable and ineffective comparison.

[Red Skin]

To a large degree you could argue that we don't matter that much.  As long as SL sees progress and the players do then wherever we finish this year, we have something to build on.

Looking at 'arry's sacking at Brum, the grass isn't always greener as too many clubs seem like basket cases.   Contrast Crystal Palace's short lived experience with FdB and a new style if playing to our own approach that is being instilled into the fabric of the club.

The danger is that if we weren't promoted then we'll become next year's Barnsley and our best players will be poached.  Convincing them that we are the best club to learn and develop at is key to ensure we progress*.   As long as SL and they believe then a few dissenting voices on Otib isn't gonna make me lose any sleep.

(*I think we can losea a couple with the scouting we do these days, but not the quantity Barnsley lost).