Can LJ be trusted to spend wisely in the next window

[GrahamC]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Even so, being at Bayern is no mean feat. Lucic clearly has something about him, for me though he needs a run of starts with a settled defence before we see what he's about.

I agree with that, but I don't think the midst of a lengthy losing run is the time for a keeper for whom English is not his first language and who has virtually no first team experience to suddenly start playing.

[JoeAman08]

I just don't get how Engvall, O'Dowda, Lucic, and Moore get the bad signing label already. They're all super young and we were told they're for the FUTURE! Some of you just look at the fee and expect them to be a Knockaert or Chester. They're here to be grown into those players not that they are now. The club obviously feel they can invest in youth so maybe you should feel that way too. SL was told he's investing a good amount of money now and with training they'll be worth 3,4,even 5 times as much. He's OK with it so I can't figure out why it's not good enough for you guys. 

You could say the biggest investments, especially wage wise, are the ones who haven't worked out as well as we wanted. Tomlin, out of position or not, hasn't been the same as last year where he also played on the left numerous times. GON has been solid if unspectacular and has now probably missed as many games as he's featured or at least will by the time he returns. Paterson was always a gamble. A player that has gotten it done at this level but has needed many chances and only really took the one and that was last season at Huddersfield. 

Point is, transfers are never guaranteed. The club feel like they can invest now for returns down the road. Those investments are being nurtured. Those investments should be supporter by us. Everyone wants to see more of them and we will when they're ready. 

Also, you can't give a coach 10m with most of that invested in youth, 4 months to succeed. Regardless what you think about him as a coach, he did the dirty work last year and deserves this year to do the same. If we go down under him, by all means do the I told you so speech everywhere. Until then, get behind him. There's a plan and you can see it. Invest in youth in transfers and academy. 4 academy players have made their debut in the last year, theyre going out on loan when ready and they're getting chances here. The results are secondary at the moment. As long as we stay up it's a success. Progress has been made as we've got about 8-9 points more at this one of the year as we did this time last year. That's with an awful run of form which I don't think is our true identity. 

Just give the club a chance to get everything into place. They're doing years worth of work all at the same time because it was ignored before. The club is progressing in almost every facet. Maybe the results are leaving some to be desired but January is about here and I'm sure we'll address it to finish comfortably mid table. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I agree with that, but I don't think the midst of a lengthy losing run is the time for a keeper for whom English is not his first language and who has virtually no first team experience to suddenly start playing.

Agreed, especially one with such an unconventional style. 

[RumRed]

11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agreed, especially one with such an unconventional style. 

Depends on your definition of unconventional and whether it relates to all keepers or just the ones we've got used to recently at AG.

I'd just like a keeper that:

1. stays where he's meant to so doesn't get lobbed from god knows how many yards.

2. can trap a ball and get shot of it when necessary.

3. Looks commanding and comes for the ball at corners.

4. Can get the ball to a player (preferably ours) that's in a useful position from kicks and throws.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Depends on your definition of unconventional and whether it relates to all keepers or just the ones we've got used to recently at AG.

I'd just like a keeper that:

1. stays where he's meant to so doesn't get lobbed from god knows how many yards.

2. can trap a ball and get shot of it when necessary.

3. Looks commanding and comes for the ball at corners.

4. Can get the ball to a player (preferably ours) that's in a useful position from kicks and throws.

From what I've seen of Lucic he's a bit different from most keepers we've had. He's very comfortable passing the ball and coming off his line.

We're not really used to this at AG or in England generally so to some fans this style will seem risky. My point was about the defence because it'll require trust, communication (made harder with his second language English) and practice to form a cohesive defensive unit.

He looks the biggest of our keepers physically but is probably closer to Basso stylistically than Heaton for example.

[RedM]

January windows are always a bit odd aren't they. Add to that the recent newly appointed managers who will want to invest and make their mark on their team and there could be a lot of competition for players. You will either have to pay over the odds or look at players who aren't featuring for their teams for one reason or another. 

I have to trust Lee and Co to spend wisely, but I'm unsure if he knows what he wants due to him not convincingly knowing who he has now or how best to use them. We certainly haven't been settled at all. I can imagine we might again buy players who will be good in 2 years time, but we need for the here and now. By the time these players come good they might be off benefiting someone else as I've seen too many times, we lost a few after we were relegated last time. I doubt if Taylor Moore etc came here to sit on the bench, I hope we aren't hampering their development. 

I think we will be okay, survive this year and end up mid table as I predicted pre-season. We have to let the Manager do his job, but he has to make us believe he knows what he is doing and can do it too. Show us and we will back you Lee.

[Malago]

It's not your money so why worry.

[AshtonGreat]

I don't get why everyone is buying this idea that City are investing in young players who they can develop and turn into top players. In my many years of following City, I don't ever recall a time when we've been adept at doing this.

[ChippenhamRed]

4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't get why everyone is buying this idea that City are investing in young players who they can develop and turn into top players. In my many years of following City, I don't ever recall a time when we've been adept at doing this.

Does that mean we can't become good at it?

In the many years you've been following City we've also poured money down the drain year after year and relied on a rich benefactor to bail us out. This is part of the process of ending that cycle.

[redsquirrel]

i worry because i like watching us in the championship as opposed to league one.

as redm said,its all well and good investing in players for the future but we need a squad that can equally compete comfortably in this league now so i would hope we buy what ever proven championship players we need this window to tie us over until our super squad for the future has developed enough to take over.

boys vs men springs to mind,

more caulkers who  struck me as old head on young shoulders might be the answer if we must buy youth vs experience,if they are out there

[BobBobSuperBob]

With regards to the transfer window - Anyone expecting some serious money to be spent or some big signings may be disappointed 

(Personally I think we may see more loan activity than permanent ins)

 

(From Various articles in Evening Post)

Head coach Lee Johnson admits he may have to move players on during the January transfer window.
As the halfway point of the Championship campaign approaches, it is already apparent that certain individuals have dropped down the pecking order, and some of those could henceforth become surplus to requirements.
Johnson has talked openly of his desire to recruit "one or two" new faces when the January transfer window opens and he acknowledges that others may have to leave in the interests of balancing the books.

But City's head coach also recognises the difficulty of doing business in this particular window and did not rule out a scenario whereby those who are unable to break into City's 18-man Championship squad might spend most of the rest of the season watching from the stands.

Johnson told The Post: "There has to be a possibility (of players leaving) for sure."
But he warned: "In any deal, the wages have to be right and January is always a difficult window.
"If you are in that middle block of Championship clubs like we are, then it can be particularly difficult to get away. The wages are normally too steep for League One clubs and there may not be takers in the Championship.

"It is also difficult to get a move abroad and, if you look closer to home again, you might not want to lose a player to a rival.

"It is different if a club offers an astronomical feel, like the one we received for (Jonathan) Kodjia, but those deals are few and far between."

But Johnson fears City's recent form and current league position may render Ashton Gate a less desirable destination for players in the January window.
"It could have an effect on it (transfers)," said Johnson. "Sometimes it can be about perceptions and maybe the perception is that we are not doing so well.
"I don't see it that way, but it means I might have to re-sell the project. If we were sixth in the table, then there would not be a problem, but this is what happens in football.
"I still personally think we can go on a run, if we can get two or three of the right players. We have irons in the fire and we'll deal with it."

In a brave attempt to be honest with Bristol City fans, Lee Johnson admits he will more than likely have to rob Peter to pay Paul in the January transfer window.
City's head coach is determined to recruit at least a couple of players with the quality to go straight into his Championship starting line-up and make an immediate impact.
But he is warning supporters not to expect the Robins to compete with bigger and wealthier Championship rivals. City will instead adhere to their long-held principle of financial prudence and shop in an altogether more modest market than the likes of Newcastle, Norwich and Aston Villa.

Johnson told the Post: "We have to shop smart and this is why we need understanding. Our supporters don't need educating, but I want to be honest and open with them, so they understand where we are as a football club.
"We have a great club because of the ownership we have. It is consistent, it is steady, it is passionate and it is understanding. As a head coach, I'm trying to deliver the philosophy of the ownership and give them what they want.

"I see it as a spiral. There are always going to be little dips in the progression and that is when you have to stay strong as a playing staff and as supporters, because that is our way of getting to where we want to be.
"We cannot go and spend £50m in one transfer window – we have to do it our way and that means shopping in a different bracket."

Although City tabled multi-million pound bids for the likes of Andre Gray and Dwight Gayle in 2015, they are no longer prepared to spend over the odds in an inflated domestic market. Then manager Steve Cotterill lost his job, in large part, because his recruitment strategy did not accord with the club's, and Johnson was brought in earlier this year to do things differently.
Aided and abetted by chief operating officer Mark Ashton and chief scout Des Taylor, City's head coach will again be scouring the market for value-for-money additions who can further improve a team that is making steady if unspectacular progression.

Johnson confided: "We will always have to give up on something. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul. When you have an unbelievable pot of cash and can sign anyone you like, you don't have to give up on anything.
"Top echelon Premier League clubs like Manchester City will see a top-quality 6ft 2in footballer with experience at the level and they will go out and get them. Even then, it doesn't always turn out right.

"We might have to give on experience for talent, we might have to give on physicality for technical ability or me might have to give on technical ability for physicality.
"Any good side is a jigsaw, a collection of different attributes that have to be carefully put together. That is what we are trying to do.
"We've lost our way a little bit over the last seven games, but if you break down statistics and performance, there are signs there that we can be a good side. If I'm lying, tell me.
"There are micro steps we are making on the pitch, only it does not feel like that to any of us right now because of results."

 

 

( The underlined bit , could in theory be a 'smokescreen' message to other Clubs who we might make offers to , but personally I do not read it that way )

[Davefevs]

Not going to add much to some reasoned responses, but let's not forget we had to build a squad over the summer....we had a threadbare squad left at end of 15/16.  I didn't expect every signing to be an instant hit....although I did expect better.  In retrospect wow need to given a few a bit more time, e.g. O'Dowda, Engvall.

Paterson, I expected more, but only seen glimpses.

[Redandy]

7 hours ago, FlintWonderwall said:

Paterson had a lot of chances and deserved to be dropped.

So why was money wasted signing him when he appears already surplus to requirements.

[AshtonGreat]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Does that mean we can't become good at it?

In the many years you've been following City we've also poured money down the drain year after year and relied on a rich benefactor to bail us out. This is part of the process of ending that cycle.

Fine if it works. I'll believe it when I see it

[Scrumpylegs]

We're a lot better off than we were this time last year and the players we have signed look mostly decent. The team is not too far away from the majority of our opponents, which was not the case 12 months ago! Many on this forum have seriously unrealistic expectations. This league is tough and the recent run, although painful to watch at times, has illustrated the areas that need strengthening. Confident that LJ will sort out these weaknesses and this team will kick on in the longer term. Nothing to be gained by getting rid.

[Alwaystomorrow]

LJ is a good talker or in other words, a bullshitter. He has achieved very little in the game to date. Always suspected as much when he was bullshitting about 1% gains etc. 

His purchases, with the odd exception, have been poor. Paterson???? For goodness sake! He has to go in January, surely.

So, another mediocre season. We may just survive with the emphasis on the word,"just."

i have no onfidence in the man and that was my view before our current run of bad results.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Alwaystomorrow said:

LJ is a good talker or in other words, a bullshitter. He has achieved very little in the game to date. Always suspected as much when he was bullshitting about 1% gains etc. 

His purchases, with the odd exception, have been poor. Paterson???? For goodness sake! He has to go in January, surely.

So, another mediocre season. We may just survive with the emphasis on the word,"just."

i have no onfidence in the man and that was my view before our current run of bad results.

Rubbish. I bet you weren't thinking that when we thrashed Bolton at home last season or when we beat Villa at home this season. 

[Alwaystomorrow]

You can believe what you want, pal.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Alwaystomorrow said:

You can believe what you want, pal.

So you're telling me that after those two excellent results amongst many others - all that time you thought LJ was just a 'bullshitter' who's achieved very little in the game. Absolute fiction.

[RobintheRed Red]

12 hours ago, KingLear said:

He wants to build his own team, surely as manager he has the right to do that? Otherwise what the hell is he doing here, or any manager in the professional game for that matter!

well if he brings in anymore crap like he has already god help us

[Northern Red]

2 hours ago, Redandy said:

So why was money wasted signing him when he appears already surplus to requirements.

Not like you to be negative... 

[Gert Mare]

2 wins in 13 = Sum of recent "progress". 6th to 17TH.

We have to go all in on Red and pray to god that keeping players in a cage with death by PowerPoint is tactical genius and the rest of us are just mere mortals.

[AshtonGreat]

21 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Rubbish. I bet you weren't thinking that when we thrashed Bolton at home last season or when we beat Villa at home this season. 

Bolton were bottom at the time, weren't they?

[Redandy]

21 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Not like you to be negative... 

Not much to be positive about at the moment. But maybe the game at Ipswich will cheer me up tomorrow.

[Chairman Mao]

Who would want to come to this club? 3 points in 30.

[AshtonGreat]

LJ is out of his depth at this level. Would be better off replacing now