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21st


DavidNoble

21st  

180 members have voted

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On 31/12/2016 at 18:27, JoeAman08 said:

This time last year we were what 23rd? on what? 20 points? 6 places higher and 7 points more seems an improvement especially when we've lost our main striker in the last week of the window. 

As for the main question, I'd take 21st. Staying up is important. We had no problems recruiting this year(opinions on players aside). We wouldn't have problems next summer. Our young players are a year older and wiser. It's like you guys expect top 6 every year. Our second year up and staying up is still important. You can go from relegation candidates to promotion contenders in a year. We're still progressing behind the scenes the pitch bit will catch up soon. 

This time last year we were 22nd. With 21 points. But a significantly worse goal difference, -21. So if there is "progress" it is most obvious in the "we're only losing by the one goal!" thing.

What is causing the panic is the current trajectory of our form and fortunes. What would it look like if someone knocked up one of them graphs illustrating this? Worrying? We have made some progress (two more wins than last season; a much better GD) but is it enough? And have we seen the last of it?

Our current form is ten defeats in thirteen league games, and none of us know when or if this run will end this season. This leads to anxiety and some of us flapping more than others.

 

Finally, please stop saying that we "lost" our main striker in August. That makes us sound powerless, hopeless. Like we have no say in these matters. We decided to sell him and take the money, when he had two years left on his contract (I believe?) So, we chose to take the large amount of money now (thus meeting spectacularly one of the 5 pillars requirements) before signing a replacement/or another forward, and run the risk of not getting someone in; or we thought an 18 year old and Wilbs would be enough, at least until January. 

All this in the knowledge that the new loan situation would not allow us to bring anyone under contract in until January, in the event of injury or poor form etc to our two forwards.

This was an assessment made by LJ, MA and SL. And a decision they took, just like every other club was doing. 

 

There are many things in football where we have little or no power to decide or determine what happens. Or where chance is involved. Don't add to them.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

This time last year we were 22nd. With 21 points. But a significantly worse goal difference, -21. So if there is "progress" it is most obvious in the "we're only losing by the one goal!" thing.

What is causing the panic is the current trajectory of our form and fortunes. What would it look like if someone knocked up one of them graphs illustrating this? Worrying? We have made some progress (two more wins than last season; a much better GD) but is it enough? And have we seen the last of it?

Our current form is ten defeats in thirteen league games, and none of us know when or if this run will end this season. This leads to anxiety and some of us flapping more than others.

 

Finally, please stop saying that we "lost" our main striker in August. That makes us sound powerless, hopeless. Like we have no say in these matters. We decided to sell him and take the money, when he had two years left on his contract (I believe?) So, we chose to take the large amount of money now (thus meeting spectacularly one of the 5 pillars requirements) before signing a replacement/or another forward, and run the risk of not getting someone in; or we thought an 18 year old and Wilbs would be enough, at least until January. 

All this in the knowledge that the new loan situation would not allow us to bring anyone under contract in until January, in the event of injury or poor form etc to our two forwards.

This was an assessment made by LJ, MA and SL. And a decision they took, just like every other club was doing. 

 

There are many things in football where we have little or no power to decide or determine what happens. Or where chance is involved. Don't add to them.

 

 

Re Kodjia i get that. It was a decision they made and they thought we lose our short term hopes but gain finances that help us grow for the future.That should be taken into account by the fans though. I imagine SL gives LJ some slack by knowing this. The club may have to take a step back at times to take 2 steps forward. It seems really silly now that relegation seems more possible than ever but I don't think we are serious relegation candidates. Staying up may not be progress from last year to this but we've progressed in the academy and in the young players we bought. Also shown bigger clubs we can improve their young players for loans. It's all small things that'll help us grow next year and beyond. 

The current form is shocking and I've got no problem with people being nervous about our form and prospects for staying up. Personally, while concerned with the form, think we'll end up quite comfortably mid table after this window. I just feel we as fans should be a little more patient with the club and staff. Know that not everything we do has this year in mind and have faith that we will stay up and get better in the coming years. 

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2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

This time last year we were 22nd. With 21 points. But a significantly worse goal difference, -21. So if there is "progress" it is most obvious in the "we're only losing by the one goal!" thing.

What is causing the panic is the current trajectory of our form and fortunes. What would it look like if someone knocked up one of them graphs illustrating this? Worrying? We have made some progress (two more wins than last season; a much better GD) but is it enough? And have we seen the last of it?

Our current form is ten defeats in thirteen league games, and none of us know when or if this run will end this season. This leads to anxiety and some of us flapping more than others.

 

Finally, please stop saying that we "lost" our main striker in August. That makes us sound powerless, hopeless. Like we have no say in these matters. We decided to sell him and take the money, when he had two years left on his contract (I believe?) So, we chose to take the large amount of money now (thus meeting spectacularly one of the 5 pillars requirements) before signing a replacement/or another forward, and run the risk of not getting someone in; or we thought an 18 year old and Wilbs would be enough, at least until January. 

All this in the knowledge that the new loan situation would not allow us to bring anyone under contract in until January, in the event of injury or poor form etc to our two forwards.

This was an assessment made by LJ, MA and SL. And a decision they took, just like every other club was doing. 

 

There are many things in football where we have little or no power to decide or determine what happens. Or where chance is involved. Don't add to them.

 

 

What you fail to take account of however is Kodjia didn't want to be here and in the week before the window shut asked not to be played. When he did play prior to that he was a shadow of himself and took to social media to force the move. 

We had a choice to make but only one viable option; the one we took. We lost him no doubt by the actions he took. 

What I find refreshing however is that we didn't allow ourselves to get caught pants down and panic buy straight after. 

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5 hours ago, 29AR said:

What you fail to take account of however is Kodjia didn't want to be here and in the week before the window shut asked not to be played. When he did play prior to that he was a shadow of himself and took to social media to force the move. 

We had a choice to make but only one viable option; the one we took. We lost him no doubt by the actions he took. 

What I find refreshing however is that we didn't allow ourselves to get caught pants down and panic buy straight after. 

Oh, I have taken that into account.

If this were the first example of this sort of thing happening in football, you could understand us getting caught out. But it happens over and over. Berahino, anyone? We have a coach with "emotional intelligence." And he and Ashton didn't see a bid coming in late for a 20 goal striker? And a 20 goal striker not wanting to move to one of the big guns in this league?  How often does a 20 goal striker in any league get through a transfer window without serious bids being made for him? You are far too kind to LJ and MA.

It is the job of LJ and Ashton to be on top of exactly this sort of thing. If they are not, we are always going to struggle at this level of football. If they are incapable, we need people who are capable. What good is that £11m doing us now? 

 

We have been caught pants down - the past two months show that. To my eyes, LJ is having his "pants pulled down" by this level of football every week. Adam Matthews at centre half? 

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6 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Oh, I have taken that into account.

If this were the first example of this sort of thing happening in football, you could understand us getting caught out. But it happens over and over. Berahino, anyone? We have a coach with "emotional intelligence." And he and Ashton didn't see a bid coming in late for a 20 goal striker? And a 20 goal striker not wanting to move to one of the big guns in this league?  How often does a 20 goal striker in any league get through a transfer window without serious bids being made for him? You are far too kind to LJ and MA.

It is the job of LJ and Ashton to be on top of exactly this sort of thing. If they are not, we are always going to struggle at this level of football. If they are incapable, we need people who are capable. What good is that £11m doing us now? 

 

We have been caught pants down - the past two months show that. To my eyes, LJ is having his "pants pulled down" by this level of football every week. Adam Matthews at centre half? 

Berahino? That's the perfect example of us doing the right thing. He's now 6m of his deal left and West Brom going to get a fraction of prior offers; if even f all. 

Yes we should have planned to replace and ought to have replaced. Unfortunately until the money is in the bank we don't know what we have to spend; if we spend before suitors know what to offer for Kodjia and we might cut ourselves short. 

I agree it didn't end up perfect for us, but with Tammy stepping up as he has it did near about close enough. 

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6 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Berahino? That's the perfect example of us doing the right thing. He's now 6m of his deal left and West Brom going to get a fraction of prior offers; if even f all. 

Yes we should have planned to replace and ought to have replaced. Unfortunately until the money is in the bank we don't know what we have to spend; if we spend before suitors know what to offer for Kodjia and we might cut ourselves short. 

I agree it didn't end up perfect for us, but with Tammy stepping up as he has it did near about close enough. 

You are being very, very generous to the people that make the big decisions at this club.

To my mind, when you are relying on the January transfer window to save your neck/season, you probably made a mess of the previous window. It's not like we have been plagued with injuries. Quite the opposite, I'd say

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2 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

You are being very, very generous to the people that make the big decisions at this club.

To my mind, when you are relying on the January transfer window to save your neck/season, you probably made a mess of the previous window. It's not like we have been plagued with injuries. Quite the opposite, I'd say

Perhaps I am. But the again nigh on 75% rely upon January to save their neck or season. Half to save their neck, half to consolidate their promotion/playoff push. 

I think you're being very harsh. 

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5 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Perhaps I am. But the again nigh on 75% rely upon January to save their neck or season. Half to save their neck, half to consolidate their promotion/playoff push. 

I think you're being very harsh. 

Probably somewhere between your generosity, and my harshness, lies the truth of the matter! Not that we'll ever know, or be able to put a finger on it

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3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Probably somewhere between your generosity, and my harshness, lies the truth of the matter! Not that we'll ever know, or be able to put a finger on it

Agree.

I'm probably a bit too lenient for sure. Today really has tested my patience. I'm still seething that our club sees fit to not have Moore on the bench when a 'made of glass' rb who has flattered to deceive plays centre back (albeit AM had a respectable game). 

My patience is wearing thin; and I wanted and still want LJ. I believe Cardiff is a big game though. 

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1 hour ago, 29AR said:

Agree.

I'm probably a bit too lenient for sure. Today really has tested my patience. I'm still seething that our club sees fit to not have Moore on the bench when a 'made of glass' rb who has flattered to deceive plays centre back (albeit AM had a respectable game). 

My patience is wearing thin; and I wanted and still want LJ. I believe Cardiff is a big game though. 

Agree with pretty much all that, except I'm wavering even more than it sounds like you are on whether I still want LJ in charge.  For me we have to beat Fleetwood and Cardiff, especially given the tough run of fixtures we have coming up after that. Anything less than two wins and I think it has to be the end of the road. 

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3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Agree with pretty much all that, except I'm wavering even more than it sounds like you are on whether I still want LJ in charge.  For me we have to beat Fleetwood and Cardiff, especially given the tough run of fixtures we have coming up after that. Anything less than two wins and I think it has to be the end of the road. 

To be honest I've ran out of love with the domestic cups so I kinda ignore them - I won't be at the game. Probably why fleetwood I'm not interested in the result. As a squad for confidence can see why it's massively important. 

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3 minutes ago, 29AR said:

To be honest I've ran out of love with the domestic cups so I kinda ignore them - I won't be at the game. Probably why fleetwood I'm not interested in the result. As a squad for confidence can see why it's massively important. 

Fair enough. I won't be at the game either. As you say, it's about confidence more than the fact I want a cup run.  Losing to a team a division below us is the last thing we need at the moment (plus if we win it pushes the Villa game back a few weeks due to fixture congestion which makes our January run of games look easier!) I also think that, if LJ cannot beat a team a division below us at home, it becomes that much harder to justify him continuing in the job. 

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I think the reality is that we all expected a lot more from the team given the finish to last season and the early form shown. The loss in form has come really from nowhere and was not expected. We have picked up few points and are now in a relegation fight. We have lost winnable games and also in games from winning positions. The conceding of late goals shows a lack of composure to see games out. We need some reinforcements to strengthen the team and I think we are not as good as we thought we were. The key now is simply to stay in the division and then re-evaluate at the end of the season. This should also include the manger's position. Sacking him now is not what is needed when he was the "stand out candidate" less than 1 year ago according to MA.  

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