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DavidNoble

Marlon Pack

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Not in the matchday squad but did the warm up so not injured and I didn't see anything about him being suspended?

Anyone know what went on there?

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Hopefully on his way out.  Dont rate him.

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4 minutes ago, FlintWonderwall said:

So underrated because of the job he does. Similar to Skuse when here.

Skuse is twice the player Pack is..

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6 minutes ago, DavidNoble said:

Not in the matchday squad but did the warm up so not injured and I didn't see anything about him being suspended?

Anyone know what went on there?

Think it's just a position we've got lots of options in. The midfield LJ picked today was high energy and designed to press Reading. It worked for the most part. I guess the plan was to shift the central midfielders about if we were losing early on. Probably not a game for Marlon today.

 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Think it's just a position we've got lots of options in. The midfield LJ picked today was high energy and designed to press Reading. It worked for the most part. I guess the plan was to shift the central midfielders about if we were losing early on. Probably not a game for Marlon today.

 

Press?? Did you watch the game? 9 defenders behind the ball inviting pressure is not pressing. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Think it's just a position we've got lots of options in. The midfield LJ picked today was high energy and designed to press Reading. It worked for the most part. I guess the plan was to shift the central midfielders about if we were losing early on. Probably not a game for Marlon today.

 

Maybe not, but if you are going to try and hold on to a lead (as we clearly did), how much more useful on the bench would he be than having 2 wingers, 2 strikers and Bobby Reid? 

Apart from a kid who had never featured before all our outfield subs were attacking players.

This just sums up the complete lack of planning by him, what would have happened if Flint had gone over on his ankle after 5 minutes?

His subs, in fact even more than his bizarre starting XI (Matthews at CB, FFS) were a complete shambles.

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6 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Press?? Did you watch the game? 9 defenders behind the ball inviting pressure is not pressing. 

 

Spot on - we pressed on half a dozen occasions and it worked quite well.  The rest of the time we stood offor them and let them have it like they were ******* Barcelona - inept and embarrassing again....

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If someone asked me today who I wanted holding CDM, Smith or Pack; 90% sure I would choose Pack, much quicker to offload the ball, and his passes wide could've made us much more effective.

Smith made one tackle I was in the first half that was not a foul. 

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Pack has been one of our best midfielders all season, only to be subbed when he is playing very well, would not blame him if he wanted out. Yet we start with Smith who has been a liability since coming back from injury - makes no sense unless injured in warmup

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He probably had the same impact on the game from the stand (bar missing a good chance) as Korey the passenger.

Should have been in the team in my opinion, but to not even have him on the bench is utter madness. But to be fair not a level of madness that compares with playing an unfit, uninterested right back at centre half.

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Not having Pack on the bench could have cost us the game today ! He would have been perfect to bring on at 2-1 today . Instead we went 442 because we had no defensive midfielder on the bench ! 

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9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Maybe not, but if you are going to try and hold on to a lead (as we clearly did), how much more useful on the bench would he be than having 2 wingers, 2 strikers and Bobby Reid? 

Apart from a kid who had never featured before all our outfield subs were attacking players.

This just sums up the complete lack of planning by him, what would have happened if Flint had gone over on his ankle after 5 minutes?

His subs, in fact even more than his bizarre starting XI (Matthews at CB, FFS) were a complete shambles.

He'd always be in the squad if it was me. I rate his ability to keep possession as well as his height winning the ball in the air. I felt our midfield were a bit intimidated by Maite's size and directness and couldn't handle Kelly's movement - Pack could've helped with that.  

I was trying to unpick the theoretical reasons why he may not have featured but it's also possible he's fallen out with LJ like the rumours about Tomlin and O'Neil.

That said, I was pretty impressed with Bryan/Brownhill today (especially Brownhill) and felt they had the makings of a good balanced pairing. 

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10 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Maybe not, but if you are going to try and hold on to a lead (as we clearly did), how much more useful on the bench would he be than having

2 wingers, 2 strikers and Bobby Reid? 

Apart from a kid who had never featured before all our outfield subs were attacking players.

This just sums up the complete lack of planning by him, what would have happened if Flint had gone over on his ankle after 5 minutes?

His subs, in fact even more than his bizarre starting XI (Matthews at CB, FFS) were a complete shambles.

We had 2 wingers on the bench? and yet when we took our wide men off we replaced them with a CM and a Target man ...... odd

and we had a RB at CB and dropped a £2m CB ...... again odd

Pack would have started in front of Smith for me, since he's come back he has been very poor. Nearly set up another goal today.

 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That said, I was pretty impressed with Bryan/Brownhill today (especially Brownhill) and felt they had the makings of a good balanced pairing. 

I wouldn't mind us playing 5 in midfield more often, Pack in the middle of Brownhill/Bryan allowing them to break when possible could work. 451 worked for 70 minutes today, we just bottled it when trying to settle. 

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20 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Think it's just a position we've got lots of options in. The midfield LJ picked today was high energy and designed to press Reading. It worked for the most part. I guess the plan was to shift the central midfielders about if we were losing early on. Probably not a game for Marlon today.

 

Sorry but designed to press reading I can't remember us doing that once all game

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8 minutes ago, stokes7 said:

Sorry but designed to press reading I can't remember us doing that once all game

I think the game plan was to let them have the ball in their half but close them down, win the ball and break quickly when we had a chance in our own half. Brownhill, Bryan and Smith are all - at their best - athletic and impetuous. I think that was the intention and for 70 mins we did pretty well at it.

I get that people don't like seeing an away team dominate position at home, but I'm pretty sure that's what we were trying to do. We haven't got the ability or confidence to try and out-pass them but at the same time we don't have the personnel to effectively pressure them into making mistakes for an entire game. Considering the lineup, especially the weaknesses in defence, I don't think we played that badly for the majority of the game. We just don't have the know-how, ability or perhaps the composure to see out games against superior opponents.

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We weren't set up to press. We were set up to frustrate them, not concede, then hit them on the break. 

I apologise as it seems we were away to Real Madrid, I could've sworn we were at home to Reading. 

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I saw a lot of things I liked today and a few I didn't. First off, the game plan was working. We didn't press until they were in our half(and until about 70th min). They had no answers and maybe one true chance up until they scored. 

Brownhill and Bryan I really like in midfield. Both strong enough and athletic enough. O'Dowda and Freeman had good games but I want to highlight O'Dowda. Good athlete and draws fouls. One of my wingers from now on. 

We really tired out which was part of the reason they got back in it. I have to say LJ really messed it up at the end putting players out of position and changing the formation. Individually I though most had a good game. Flint and Little were solid. Golbourne I think was good if not spectacular and Matthews did a job. 

I was most disappointed with our captain and holding midfielder Korey Smith. Didn't really notice him other than a few fouls and misplaced passes. Also Frank Fielding I think should've saved at least one of the goals. None in the corners and none hit particularly hard. Not good enough in the build up but keepers are asked to make saves when the defence breaks down. He needed to be better. Wilbraham added nothing when he came on. Not his fault he came on and I don't know why LJ expected of him but we weren't going to have much of the ball for him to hold up. Reid looked like he wasn't synced up with when to press and not to. Again not his fault the coach put him out of position but made no impact. 

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9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think the game plan was to let them have the ball in their half but close them down, win the ball and break quickly when we had a chance in our own half. Brownhill, Bryan and Smith are all - at their best - athletic and impetuous. I think that was the intention and for 70 mins we did pretty well at it.

I get that people don't like seeing an away team dominate position at home, but I'm pretty sure that's what we were trying to do. We haven't got the ability or confidence to try and out-pass them but at the same time we don't have the personnel to effectively pressure them into making mistakes for an entire game. Considering the lineup, especially the weaknesses in defence, I don't think we played that badly for the majority of the game. We just don't have the know-how, ability or perhaps the composure to see out games against superior opponents.

That's my point we weren't pressing just allowing them to come on to us all game, only once or twice did we attempt to break quickly and low and behold that resulted in chances when you play one up top the midfield is meant to support and yet again it wasn't happening 

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11 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I saw a lot of things I liked today and a few I didn't. First off, the game plan was working. We didn't press until they were in our half(and until about 70th min). They had no answers and maybe one true chance up until they scored. 

Brownhill and Bryan I really like in midfield. Both strong enough and athletic enough. O'Dowda and Freeman had good games but I want to highlight O'Dowda. Good athlete and draws fouls. One of my wingers from now on. 

We really tired out which was part of the reason they got back in it. I have to say LJ really messed it up at the end putting players out of position and changing the formation. Individually I though most had a good game. Flint and Little were solid. Golbourne I think was good if not spectacular and Matthews did a job. 

I was most disappointed with our captain and holding midfielder Korey Smith. Didn't really notice him other than a few fouls and misplaced passes. Also Frank Fielding I think should've saved at least one of the goals. None in the corners and none hit particularly hard. Not good enough in the build up but keepers are asked to make saves when the defence breaks down. He needed to be better. Wilbraham added nothing when he came on. Not his fault he came on and I don't know why LJ expected of him but we weren't going to have much of the ball for him to hold up. Reid looked like he wasn't synced up with when to press and not to. Again not his fault the coach put him out of position but made no impact. 

Excellent post, I agree with everything other than that Matthews did a job.

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27 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Maybe not, but if you are going to try and hold on to a lead (as we clearly did), how much more useful on the bench would he be than having 2 wingers, 2 strikers and Bobby Reid? 

Apart from a kid who had never featured before all our outfield subs were attacking players.

This just sums up the complete lack of planning by him, what would have happened if Flint had gone over on his ankle after 5 minutes?

His subs, in fact even more than his bizarre starting XI (Matthews at CB, FFS) were a complete shambles.

spotted that too.  I said pre-game, that if Matthews hammer went, Kelly would be making his debut.  I did wonder if the Cluedo pieces line-up was a ruse and that we were going with a three of Matthews-Flint-Golbourne

6 minutes ago, petehinton said:

We weren't set up to press. We were set up to frustrate them, not concede, then hit them on the break. 

I apologise as it seems we were away to Real Madrid, I could've sworn we were at home to Reading. 

On the back of the run, that we are on, had we got a point or 3 playing 460 with 10% possession, I'd have accepted that.

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I saw a lot of things I liked today and a few I didn't. First off, the game plan was working. We didn't press until they were in our half(and until about 70th min). They had no answers and maybe one true chance up until they scored. 

Yep, never really threatened.

Brownhill and Bryan I really like in midfield. Both strong enough and athletic enough. O'Dowda and Freeman had good games but I want to highlight O'Dowda. Good athlete and draws fouls. One of my wingers from now on. 

They were good and disciplined today, good to see.

We really tired out which was part of the reason they got back in it. I have to say LJ really messed it up at the end putting players out of position and changing the formation. Individually I though most had a good game. Flint and Little were solid. Golbourne I think was good if not spectacular and Matthews did a job. 

I'm not convinced they were knackered at 2-0, 2-1 even, but the shift to a midfield 4 meant more ground to cover, which ultimately did tire them.

I was most disappointed with our captain and holding midfielder Korey Smith. Didn't really notice him other than a few fouls and misplaced passes.

That's Korey to some extent.  I rave on about Danny Williams, but thought he was fairly anonymous today, because he didn't have any mopping up to do, or need to draw niggly fouls like he normally does against attacking focussed teams.

Also Frank Fielding I think should've saved at least one of the goals.

Don't think the 3rd should've gone in.  1st through Flint's leg, 2nd a good hit from Kermogant.

None in the corners and none hit particularly hard. Not good enough in the build up but keepers are asked to make saves when the defence breaks down. He needed to be better. Wilbraham added nothing when he came on. Not his fault he came on and I don't know why LJ expected of him but we weren't going to have much of the ball for him to hold up. Reid looked like he wasn't synced up with when to press and not to. Again not his fault the coach put him out of position but made no impact. 

Couple of embedded comments Joe.

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11 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

 

We really tired out which was part of the reason they got back in it. I have to say LJ really messed it up at the end putting players out of position and changing the formation. Individually I though most had a good game. Flint and Little were solid. Golbourne I think was good if not spectacular and Matthews did a job. 

 

What job did Matthews do?

Win the competition for showing the least willingness of a member of the back four to put a challenge in, probably in case it messed up his hair?

Lose his man twice in the first half which could have easily resulted in goals?

Watch the goals again, he makes a totally token challenge in a couple of them.

Fact is that he simply does not care, contrast that with the effort put in by the OTIB scapegoat Mark Little, who gave everything he had and limited as he obviously is, did not deserve to be on the losing side.

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Simple question;

If Pack and Moore were available, why was an untried left back and a striker who LJ seems utterly disinterested in playing under any circumstance in the bench instead?

Weirder than Matthews starting at centre back for me, and has more worry undertones tbh.

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33 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Think it's just a position we've got lots of options in. The midfield LJ picked today was high energy and designed to press Reading. It worked for the most part. I guess the plan was to shift the central midfielders about if we were losing early on. Probably not a game for Marlon today.

 

The midfield ran around a lot but I can't agree that they pressed Reading. In the first half Reading passed the ball around at will and in the second half it was even worse. Towards the end the entire City team was playing so deep, that if they had been any deeper they would have been in with the fans in the Atyeo. City only had 28% possession in the game! It was like watching a non league team playing a Premier League team in a cup match. To me it was an admission from LJ that his signings aren't good enough so let's try and get a 0-0 draw. Plus he hasn't a clue on how to make substitutions. Everyone complained that Cotts was stubborn and would never make a substitution till it was too late, but LJ makes them and loses the game 

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40 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Maybe not, but if you are going to try and hold on to a lead (as we clearly did), how much more useful on the bench would he be than having 2 wingers, 2 strikers and Bobby Reid? 

Apart from a kid who had never featured before all our outfield subs were attacking players.

This just sums up the complete lack of planning by him, what would have happened if Flint had gone over on his ankle after 5 minutes?

His subs, in fact even more than his bizarre starting XI (Matthews at CB, FFS) were a complete shambles.

Lloyd Kelly 

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5 minutes ago, samo II said:

Simple question;

If Pack and Moore were available, why was an untried left back and a striker who LJ seems utterly disinterested in playing under any circumstance in the bench instead?

Weirder than Matthews starting at centre back for me, and has more worry undertones tbh.

I've backed Johnson, but you raise some very good points.. He is beginning to puzzle me week by week

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45 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Press?? Did you watch the game? 9 defenders behind the ball inviting pressure is not pressing. 

 

We invited pressure for the final 20 mins but we played a smart pressing game for the first 70 we pinched the ball off of them numerous times, which in turn created most of our chances. 

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6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

What job did Matthews do?

Win the competition for showing the least willingness of a member of the back four to put a challenge in, probably in case it messed up his hair?

Lose his man twice in the first half which could have easily resulted in goals?

Watch the goals again, he makes a totally token challenge in a couple of them.

Fact is that he simply does not care, contrast that with the effort put in by the OTIB scapegoat Mark Little, who gave everything he had and limited as he obviously is, did not deserve to be on the losing side.

I was grateful we had Matthews there as he's used to wingers and he was one on one with McCleary a few times. A position I'd worry about if it was Flint or Magnusson. I never expected him to challenge for aerial balls. He kept his position and I didn't see him put a foot wrong. Exposed a bit on a header that hit the bar end of first half but that was the risk playing a fullback at CB. Didn't see him as someone who didn't care. Seen him as someone playing out of position so didn't take any risks. 

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52 minutes ago, MyBrotherErnie said:

Couldn't disagree more. Runs the game for us in many respects and he was a big miss today

Pack gives us a solid feel,whether you like it or not he isn't the best but when he is in the team we are hard to beat through midfield.

i've never been a lover of his but by Christ almighty he would of been the perfect replacement for o'dowda today,ouch Bryan into his spot and pack into the middle

simple really

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25 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I saw a lot of things I liked today and a few I didn't. First off, the game plan was working. We didn't press until they were in our half(and until about 70th min). They had no answers and maybe one true chance up until they scored. 

Brownhill and Bryan I really like in midfield. Both strong enough and athletic enough. O'Dowda and Freeman had good games but I want to highlight O'Dowda. Good athlete and draws fouls. One of my wingers from now on. 

We really tired out which was part of the reason they got back in it. I have to say LJ really messed it up at the end putting players out of position and changing the formation. Individually I though most had a good game. Flint and Little were solid. Golbourne I think was good if not spectacular and Matthews did a job. 

I was most disappointed with our captain and holding midfielder Korey Smith. Didn't really notice him other than a few fouls and misplaced passes. Also Frank Fielding I think should've saved at least one of the goals. None in the corners and none hit particularly hard. Not good enough in the build up but keepers are asked to make saves when the defence breaks down. He needed to be better. Wilbraham added nothing when he came on. Not his fault he came on and I don't know why LJ expected of him but we weren't going to have much of the ball for him to hold up. Reid looked like he wasn't synced up with when to press and not to. Again not his fault the coach put him out of position but made no impact. 

Pretty much exactly how I saw it. 

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3 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

I've backed Johnson, but you raise some very good points.. He is beginning to puzzle me week by week

Ditto.

I've no idea what is going on.

Maybe a handful of signings will sort us, but it feels we do not have a winning mentality.  

And a coach can be as smart, organised and technically savvy as they like, but if you cannot instil a winning mentality into a team, then you're done.

I'm worried that as good as the long term project is, LJ cannot put out a team who believes that they can win matches, regardless of their ability.

Ultimately; great managers/coaches can take limited players and improve them, primarily by making them believe they can win, regardless who they are facing.  It's not a skill you can easily explain or find, but it it vital.

Am concerned that LJ doesn't have this.

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4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I was grateful we had Matthews there as he's used to wingers and he was one on one with McCleary a few times. A position I'd worry about if it was Flint or Magnusson. I never expected him to challenge for aerial balls. He kept his position and I didn't see him put a foot wrong. Exposed a bit on a header that hit the bar end of first half but that was the risk playing a fullback at CB. Didn't see him as someone who didn't care. Seen him as someone playing out of position so didn't take any risks. 

Fair enough, you are a good poster and of course you are completely entitled to your point of view.

I think he is technically a very good footballer but is totally gutless and if we are to get out of this mess we need players who will scrap for everything, which he won't.

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49 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Lj finally realised he's shit

I'm not sure I trust LJ's opinion of any player anymore, but Marlon Pack is far, far from being sh*t as you so eloquently put it.

He's a very competent championship midfielder...

 

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4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Fair enough, you are a good poster and of course you are completely entitled to your point of view.

I think he is technically a very good footballer but is totally gutless and if we are to get out of this mess we need players who will scrap for everything, which he won't.

Which is fair enough in itself. He doesn't seem to be a carer but I just don't want to mistake it for not caring. I don't think his future after this season is with us though. Just thought he did ok today. Though I would've started with Moore. 

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1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I was grateful we had Matthews there as he's used to wingers and he was one on one with McCleary a few times. A position I'd worry about if it was Flint or Magnusson. I never expected him to challenge for aerial balls. He kept his position and I didn't see him put a foot wrong. Exposed a bit on a header that hit the bar end of first half but that was the risk playing a fullback at CB. Didn't see him as someone who didn't care. Seen him as someone playing out of position so didn't take any risks. 

 

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Fair enough, you are a good poster and of course you are completely entitled to your point of view.

I think he is technically a very good footballer but is totally gutless and if we are to get out of this mess we need players who will scrap for everything, which he won't.

Two respected posters, although I'm more with Joe on this one....but I haven't seen the goals back.  I thought he was the organiser back there, calling the line etc.  Happy to be corrected when I see goals back.

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Is it any clearer why Marlon wasn't even on the bench today? In the post match interview, Lee J said how he didn't have many options available to stem the growing Reading tide. Personally think that Pack and probably O'Donnell have been a bit unfairly treated this season under LJ.

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10 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Is it any clearer why Marlon wasn't even on the bench today? In the post match interview, Lee J said how he didn't have many options available to stem the growing Reading tide. Personally think that Pack and probably O'Donnell have been a bit unfairly treated this season under LJ.

I'm really hoping pack was injured? Not sure if correct as didn't see it myself but my old man was convinced pack was out in the warm up? Maybe got injured in warm up hence young lad getting called up to bench.

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3 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I'm really hoping pack was injured? Not sure if correct as didn't see it myself but my old man was convinced pack was out in the warm up? Maybe got injured in warm up hence young lad getting called up to bench.

Kelly was chosen over Moore on the bench due to his height apparently, was watching Pack and he took part in the shooting warm up.

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4 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I'm really hoping pack was injured? Not sure if correct as didn't see it myself but my old man was convinced pack was out in the warm up? Maybe got injured in warm up hence young lad getting called up to bench.

Let's hope that's why then. Always beeen a big Pack fan. Along with a lot of other Championship managers I reckon 

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4 minutes ago, hodge said:

Kelly was chosen over Moore on the bench due to his height apparently, was watching Pack and he took part in the shooting warm up.

Yet, pre-match Lee talked about experience  ???  Odd that one

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7 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Yet, pre-match Lee talked about experience  ???  Odd that one

I heard that, really puzzled me. Said he needed experience for a game like today, but then said Kelly was on the bench because he was taller

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