Results poor, performances not so

[BS3_RED]

That was the line given by Ashton yesterday and even though I am now firmly in the LJ out camp I do so some extent have to agree with that view. How many games since the run started have we played well ( at least for a good period) but what for ever reason not picked up the points our performance warranted?

 

Yes, I know that LJ does still not know his best formation or 11 players and will try 4 different systems in the same game but I can think of many games where we should have picked up points and if we did the view would be a little different. 

 

I do still think he is out of his depth though, and as mention above as well as the transfers and then not playing them shows this.

[Unan]

We're shit obvious to see

[NorfolkInChance]

Ashton is obviously in to turd polishing as a hobby

[Eddie Hitler]

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Mark Ashton is the new SOD. Football is a game where you can dominate teams and still lose the odd game, that is why we like it. However be consistently losing and declare that we have been playing well is naive at best. 

[Davefevs]

We've rarely been the better team for more than 45 minutes of a game.  Performances have been mixed.  I couldn't say we've been crap (`Fulham aside), but nor have we been great fir a whole game.

There was a table created a while back that took each team based on how many minutes they'd been ahead, drawing, behind.

This was at a time where we were top 10 in real life, but we were near the bottom in terms of percentage time ahead.  Maybe that was telling.

[KURTZ]

What  Ashton sez is always pure spin, pretending things are not so bad, while all the time the Club sinks like a Brick, and us Fans are hating every Saturday.

This situation is a nightmare, we are scared, whilst the Board sleeps.

The Horror...the Horror.

[Mr Hankey]

I think we have been bloody awful, as far back as Derby at home, we have rarely been the better side in any game for a full 90 minutes, can say what you want about the Burton game and chances ect but shouldnt be drawing a game like that 0-0.

[Tears in rain]

Afraid to say games last longer then 30,45,75 minutes and so often we have played well got to winning positons and thrown it away through sheer incompetence. 

Chnages that don't need making, players make errors, an attitude of not closing people down and happy to camp in our half when 2-1 up etc.

To an extent we have played well agreed just want a full 90 minute performance and a win from it without any **** ups

[lager loud]

Good teams find ways to win games when they're not playing particularly well. 

Bad teams find ways not to win games when they're not playing particularly badly.

So even if I agreed with MA - which I don't - I wouldn't find it particularly encouraging.

[BCFChayden]

Everything is great then Mark Ashton we are clearly in a false position because now we are going on performances. Those good performances wouldn't even total 90 minutes the ****.

[The hand of RO'D]

I'm sorry we've been poor since the opening game against Wigan.

Not once have we dominated a game (apart from 0-4 at Fulham) all season. I personally think we've papered over cracks since the start and have been blinkered by Tammys goals.

[Red Homer]

I was talking to a very tall defender yesterday who was with a certain ex-manager of ours. He basically said that the performances are there or thereabouts, they just need to get a bit of luck and play with the same level of intensity they did at Newcastle. He was positive that results would turn around.

[DT The Optimist]

42 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

I'm sorry we've been poor since the opening game against Wigan.

Not once have we dominated a game (apart from 0-4 at Fulham) all season. I personally think we've papered over cracks since the start and have been blinkered by Tammys goals.

We did not dominate game a Fulham, something like 28% possession and kept hitting them on break. That result got people thinking that we were better than we were.  It was a freak result imho and in hindsight did us no favours with expectations.

 

[ciderbeans]

The exact problem is that we don't have a consistent starting team. It's proven that with consistancy come results as was shown in our double winning season. If we had that, regardless of formation, we would still stand a chance of gaining points.

however, inconsistency combined with irregular tactics simply equate to what we have offered so far. This solely lands at the doorstep of LJ. He could turn it round if he stuck with the same starting lineup for a while but he simply does not have that ability and clearly cannot coach as we have seen no improvement in any of our players over his tenure so far.

[Red white and red]

Hmmm, more spin from the doctor of spin himself. We are an absolute shambles. It has been mentioned on this post above that we never play consistently good football for 90 minutes. We never keep on the front foot for 90 minutes. We are so slow going forward, players have to take 4 or 5 touches in midfield then go back to flint or wright, who then lump the ball 90 yards up the pitch for a 37 year old to try and win the ball with nobody within 20 yards of him. The manager is so tactically naive that he sets us up not to concede, we then concede and he shits himself with the subs! If these are good performances then I'd ******* love to know what he thinks if we were top 6...

[Mr Popodopolous]

Barely all season have we played good football for 90 mins, agree with the poster above. LJ's set up is bewildering at times, his rotation. I think the only good 90 minute performances this season were the Fulham and Leeds games back in September. That's it- without exception, that's it.

Let's have a look at some performances vs results though from Barnsley onwards- not on a half by half basis but overall:

• 2-2 v Barnsley away- Decent result, not bad performance. Can't complain really.
• 0-2 v Brighton Home- They DO look a strong bet for promotion but 1st half was particularly poor. They only had 2 shots on target though- and scored both! Played within themselves a bit tbh.
• 0-1 v Birmingham away- Don't think anyone can knock the display tbh. We had chances, they had some chances- with a bit of luck Draw? Remember this was before they sacked Rowett and went on a long slump.
• 1-2 v Reading away- Promotion contenders. 2nd half seemed pretty good, strong home record. Disappointing but not a disaster.
• 2-0 v Ipswich home- Win, solid display, hung on a bit in 2nd half as they hit woodwork.
• 1-2 v Huddersfield away- Played crap, they were very dominant, very good,. Could have lost by more.
• 0-1 v Brentford home- Result not good but we hit woodwork and had some good periods, had Tammy not hit woodwork draw perhaps.
• 1-2 v Preston home- Result poor, Preston 1st half certainly looked good, could have been winning by more. We did well 2nd half and could have pulled a draw out IMO.
• 2-3 v Wolves away- Dug in to turn it round...then lost again. Doesn't suggest a terrible display but to not get at least a draw is disappointing. Their winner came late so a draw perhaps.
• 1-2 v Ipswich away- We played ok at times, but a loss about right. Shame it came in the last 5 again!
• 2-3 v Reading home- Good 1st half but embarrassing possession. They deserved to win but again last 10 mins, shipping 2 goals is terrible.
• 2-3 v Cardiff home- Cardiff had 3 shots on target. Scored 3 goals. Harsh- I think we merited more. Last 10 mins yet again, concede 2 goals.
• 0-1 v Forest away- We were very poor and lost deservedly so.
• 2-2 v Sheff Wed home- I think a draw was a fair outcome, we showed spirit tbh. We played not too bad either.
• 1-0 v Rotherham home- A terrible, desperate game but we deserved to win. Just, Triple sub ultimately played a key role.
• 3-3 v Derby away- Fantastic first half, threw it away in 2nd. In game management a problem, Taylor miss, wrong substitutions wrong time, manager too slow to react. So mixed emotions on that- ultimately 2 points dropped.
• 1-2 v Leeds away- High end side at this level with a strong home record. Perhaps we deserved more, let's not forget Flint hit the woodwork at 2-0, we could with a bit of luck have got a draw but probably deserved to lose.
• 0-2 v Fulham home- Lost, terrible display, fans turned finally- no excuse just hopeless.
• 2-2 v Newcastle away- Who expected this. I think criticism for only drawing is a bit harsh as Newcastle especially on home soil are well capable of this. We missed a very good chance just after their 1st though, and that may have sealed it. Also next away game Newcastle turned it round from 1 down to win 2-1 away to Brighton reckoned by quite a few on here to be the best side at the level. A good point, but a bit of disappointment too.
• 0-2 v Villa away- Crap, say no more. Deserved to lose, absolutely.
• 0-0 v Burton home- Overall disappointing and edgy display but we did have some very good chances. Set the team up wrong again.
• 1-1 v Norwich home- Mixed views. 2nd half only one side in it, O'Dowda also hit woodwork in 1st half and we could have had a pen. On the other hand, Norwich could have scored several in 1st half. Not a terrible result in general circs but could and should have got more. Set team up  wrong again.

This is a very long winded post and I apologise for that but from Barnsley to present in the League, I don't think many of our performances have been all that bad. Notable exceptions are Huddersfield away, probably Reading at home, Forest away, Villa away and Fulham at home! Rotherham and Burton were not great displays either. I don't think we've been awful for much of this run though. Still though LJ should be gone and should have gone already.

[SedRA]

17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Barely all season have we played good football for 90 mins, agree with the poster above. LJ's set up is bewildering at times, his rotation. I think the only good 90 minute performances this season were the Fulham and Leeds games back in September. That's it- without exception, that's it.

Let's have a look at some performances vs results though from Barnsley onwards- not on a half by half basis but overall:

• 2-2 v Barnsley away- Decent result, not bad performance. Can't complain really.
• 0-2 v Brighton Home- They DO look a strong bet for promotion but 1st half was particularly poor. They only had 2 shots on target though- and scored both! Played within themselves a bit tbh.
• 0-1 v Birmingham away- Don't think anyone can knock the display tbh. We had chances, they had some chances- with a bit of luck Draw? Remember this was before they sacked Rowett and went on a long slump.
• 1-2 v Reading away- Promotion contenders. 2nd half seemed pretty good, strong home record. Disappointing but not a disaster.
• 2-0 v Ipswich home- Win, solid display, hung on a bit in 2nd half as they hit woodwork.
• 1-2 v Huddersfield away- Played crap, they were very dominant, very good,. Could have lost by more.
• 0-1 v Brentford home- Result not good but we hit woodwork and had some good periods, had Tammy not hit woodwork draw perhaps.
• 1-2 v Preston home- Result poor, Preston 1st half certainly looked good, could have been winning by more. We did well 2nd half and could have pulled a draw out IMO.
• 2-3 v Wolves away- Dug in to turn it round...then lost again. Doesn't suggest a terrible display but to not get at least a draw is disappointing. Their winner came late so a draw perhaps.
• 1-2 v Ipswich away- We played ok at times, but a loss about right. Shame it came in the last 5 again!
• 2-3 v Reading home- Good 1st half but embarrassing possession. They deserved to win but again last 10 mins, shipping 2 goals is terrible.
• 2-3 v Cardiff home- Cardiff had 3 shots on target. Scored 3 goals. Harsh- I think we merited more. Last 10 mins yet again, concede 2 goals.
• 0-1 v Forest away- We were very poor and lost deservedly so.
• 2-2 v Sheff Wed home- I think a draw was a fair outcome, we showed spirit tbh. We played not too bad either.
• 1-0 v Rotherham home- A terrible, desperate game but we deserved to win. Just, Triple sub ultimately played a key role.
• 3-3 v Derby away- Fantastic first half, threw it away in 2nd. In game management a problem, Taylor miss, wrong substitutions wrong time, manager too slow to react. So mixed emotions on that- ultimately 2 points dropped.
• 1-2 v Leeds away- High end side at this level with a strong home record. Perhaps we deserved more, let's not forget Flint hit the woodwork at 2-0, we could with a bit of luck have got a draw but probably deserved to lose.
• 0-2 v Fulham home- Lost, terrible display, fans turned finally- no excuse just hopeless.
• 2-2 v Newcastle away- Who expected this. I think criticism for only drawing is a bit harsh as Newcastle especially on home soil are well capable of this. We missed a very good chance just after their 1st though, and that may have sealed it. Also next away game Newcastle turned it round from 1 down to win 2-1 away to Brighton reckoned by quite a few on here to be the best side at the level. A good point, but a bit of disappointment too.
• 0-2 v Villa away- Crap, say no more. Deserved to lose, absolutely.
• 0-0 v Burton home- Overall disappointing and edgy display but we did have some very good chances. Set the team up wrong again.
• 1-1 v Norwich home- Mixed views. 2nd half only one side in it, O'Dowda also hit woodwork in 1st half and we could have had a pen. On the other hand, Norwich could have scored several in 1st half. Not a terrible result in general circs but could and should have got more. Set team up  wrong again.

This is a very long winded post and I apologise for that but from Barnsley to present in the League, I don't think many of our performances have been all that bad. Notable exceptions are Huddersfield away, probably Reading at home, Forest away, Villa away and Fulham at home! Rotherham and Burton were not great displays either. I don't think we've been awful for much of this run though. Still though LJ should be gone and should have gone already.

I think this is a fair assessment and agree that in general whilst we haven't dominated any games we have been unfortunate to lose/not win quite so many and have looked on par with most teams we have played.

It could also probably be said that the reason we've looked pretty even with most teams is more to do with the quality of player we have than LJ's tactical ability. 

[JamesBCFC]

2 hours ago, Red Homer said:

I was talking to a very tall defender yesterday who was with a certain ex-manager of ours. He basically said that the performances are there or thereabouts, they just need to get a bit of luck and play with the same level of intensity they did at Newcastle. He was positive that results would turn around.

What was Per Mertesacker doing with Joe Jordan?

[JamesBCFC]

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Barely all season have we played good football for 90 mins, agree with the poster above. LJ's set up is bewildering at times, his rotation. I think the only good 90 minute performances this season were the Fulham and Leeds games back in September. That's it- without exception, that's it.

Let's have a look at some performances vs results though from Barnsley onwards- not on a half by half basis but overall:

• 2-2 v Barnsley away- Decent result, not bad performance. Can't complain really.
• 0-2 v Brighton Home- They DO look a strong bet for promotion but 1st half was particularly poor. They only had 2 shots on target though- and scored both! Played within themselves a bit tbh.
• 0-1 v Birmingham away- Don't think anyone can knock the display tbh. We had chances, they had some chances- with a bit of luck Draw? Remember this was before they sacked Rowett and went on a long slump.
• 1-2 v Reading away- Promotion contenders. 2nd half seemed pretty good, strong home record. Disappointing but not a disaster.
• 2-0 v Ipswich home- Win, solid display, hung on a bit in 2nd half as they hit woodwork.
• 1-2 v Huddersfield away- Played crap, they were very dominant, very good,. Could have lost by more.
• 0-1 v Brentford home- Result not good but we hit woodwork and had some good periods, had Tammy not hit woodwork draw perhaps.
• 1-2 v Preston home- Result poor, Preston 1st half certainly looked good, could have been winning by more. We did well 2nd half and could have pulled a draw out IMO.
• 2-3 v Wolves away- Dug in to turn it round...then lost again. Doesn't suggest a terrible display but to not get at least a draw is disappointing. Their winner came late so a draw perhaps.
• 1-2 v Ipswich away- We played ok at times, but a loss about right. Shame it came in the last 5 again!
• 2-3 v Reading home- Good 1st half but embarrassing possession. They deserved to win but again last 10 mins, shipping 2 goals is terrible.
• 2-3 v Cardiff home- Cardiff had 3 shots on target. Scored 3 goals. Harsh- I think we merited more. Last 10 mins yet again, concede 2 goals.
• 0-1 v Forest away- We were very poor and lost deservedly so.
• 2-2 v Sheff Wed home- I think a draw was a fair outcome, we showed spirit tbh. We played not too bad either.
• 1-0 v Rotherham home- A terrible, desperate game but we deserved to win. Just, Triple sub ultimately played a key role.
• 3-3 v Derby away- Fantastic first half, threw it away in 2nd. In game management a problem, Taylor miss, wrong substitutions wrong time, manager too slow to react. So mixed emotions on that- ultimately 2 points dropped.
• 1-2 v Leeds away- High end side at this level with a strong home record. Perhaps we deserved more, let's not forget Flint hit the woodwork at 2-0, we could with a bit of luck have got a draw but probably deserved to lose.
• 0-2 v Fulham home- Lost, terrible display, fans turned finally- no excuse just hopeless.
• 2-2 v Newcastle away- Who expected this. I think criticism for only drawing is a bit harsh as Newcastle especially on home soil are well capable of this. We missed a very good chance just after their 1st though, and that may have sealed it. Also next away game Newcastle turned it round from 1 down to win 2-1 away to Brighton reckoned by quite a few on here to be the best side at the level. A good point, but a bit of disappointment too.
• 0-2 v Villa away- Crap, say no more. Deserved to lose, absolutely.
• 0-0 v Burton home- Overall disappointing and edgy display but we did have some very good chances. Set the team up wrong again.
• 1-1 v Norwich home- Mixed views. 2nd half only one side in it, O'Dowda also hit woodwork in 1st half and we could have had a pen. On the other hand, Norwich could have scored several in 1st half. Not a terrible result in general circs but could and should have got more. Set team up  wrong again.

This is a very long winded post and I apologise for that but from Barnsley to present in the League, I don't think many of our performances have been all that bad. Notable exceptions are Huddersfield away, probably Reading at home, Forest away, Villa away and Fulham at home! Rotherham and Burton were not great displays either. I don't think we've been awful for much of this run though. Still though LJ should be gone and should have gone already.

A good post, I think a few of those descriptions have been a bit harsh on us.

One game (circa Brentford or Preston at home) the person next to me was tallying the "should score" chances for either side and came up with something like 6-6 at the end.

We were profligate in front of goal during those games and it cost us.

[Xiled]

35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is a very long winded post and I apologise for that but from Barnsley to present in the League, I don't think many of our performances have been all that bad. Notable exceptions are Huddersfield away, probably Reading at home, Forest away, Villa away and Fulham at home! Rotherham and Burton were not great displays either. I don't think we've been awful for much of this run though. Still though LJ should be gone and should have gone already.

From the games I've seen I agree with your summaries and we have played well for spells in certain matches.  But those are subjective views from City fans.  Opposition supporters might have seen it differently or described us as soft, predictable, containable etc.  Capitulations against Reading and Cardiff were the markers of a mentally weak team.  The indisputable fact is that we've won twice in 20+ matches and that isn't a good enough return on the time and money that has been invested.  If good performances were taking us somewhere then we would have seen the results by now.  It hasn't worked, it isn't working and I'm afraid to say it isn't going to work.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

A good post, I think a few of those descriptions have been a bit harsh on us.

One game (circa Brentford or Preston at home) the person next to me was tallying the "should score" chances for either side and came up with something like 6-6 at the end.

We were profligate in front of goal during those games and it cost us.

That's it, agreed. Perhaps a bit on the harsh side, but reflecting the mood a little. Brentford or Preston- perhaps both as I say draw. We were prolifigate in a number of games and in some others seemed to concede with each shot on target we conceded. I am sure there are statistical analysts on here who could collate this but I am sure we are conceding more goals per chance now than early on. Confidence? Fragility? Keep changing the keeper- all must play a part.

@RedSA I agree those games where we got less than we deserved- mostly in the first half of this long slump, were most likely despite LJ, not because of him. At first I mentally thought to myself oh god, here we go blame the manager and the players get off Scot free- after all with a poor side there is only so much a manager can do (Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll all attemtping to keep us at this level). However we do have a good squad now, a good range, a good depth so yeah the manager is very much to blame for it mostly. Not saying players are blameless but LJ should shoulder the bulk.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Xiled said:

From the games I've seen I agree with your summaries and we have played well for spells in certain matches.  But those are subjective views from City fans.  Opposition supporters might have seen it differently or described us as soft, predictable, containable etc.  Capitulations against Reading and Cardiff were the markers of a mentally weak team.  The indisputable fact is that we've won twice in 20+ matches and that isn't a good enough return on the time and money that has been invested.  If good performances were taking us somewhere then we would have seen the results by now.  It hasn't worked, it isn't working and I'm afraid to say it isn't going to work.

Agreed with most of this, mentally weak for sure. For it to happen in two successive home games in the last 10 mins from 2-1 up is pretty unforgivable really. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's it, agreed. Perhaps a bit on the harsh side, but reflecting the mood a little. Brentford or Preston- perhaps both as I say draw.

We were prolifigate in a number of games and in some others seemed to concede with each shot on target we conceded.

I am sure there are statistical analysts on here who could collate this but I am sure we are conceding more goals per chance now than early on. Confidence? Fragility? Keep changing the keeper- all must play a part.

@RedSA I agree those games where we got less than we deserved- mostly in the first half of this long slump, were most likely despite LJ, not because of him. At first I mentally thought to myself oh god, here we go blame the manager and the players get off Scot free- after all with a poor side there is only so much a manager can do (Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll all attemtping to keep us at this level). However we do have a good squad now, a good range, a good depth so yeah the manager is very much to blame for it mostly. Not saying players are blameless but LJ should shoulder the bulk.

Speak to fans from the vast majority of relegated sides and as they scratch their heads they will say the same

Conceding Too Easily

Not taking Chances

 

Two 'check boxes'  / nigh on constants in a relegation side along with a number of others , lots of players used , constant changes, conceding late goals...... etc etc

Unfortunately we are , and have been , ticking just about every one for the majority of this season

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Speak to fans from the vast majority of relegated sides and as they scratch their heads they will say the same

Conceding Too Easily

Not taking Chances

 

Two 'check boxes'  in a relegation side along with a number of others , lots of players used , constant changes, conceding late goals...... etc

Unfortunately we are and have been ticking just about every one for the majority of this season

You're on good form today Bob. That's two of yours I've liked!

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You're on good form today Bob. That's two of yours I've liked!

In that case I'm retiring for a break 

On a serious note RR -

We've seen plenty of relegations and don't you sit there and think blimey ...... tick , tick , tick ..... this has a bad vibe

I have been increasingly since October 

[The Bard]

It's a sign of desperation when you feel the need to separate results from performance.  In the short term maybe you can allow it, but over 25 games absolutely not.  Played 25, won 3 drawn 6 lost 16 is all that counts.  That is not just a bad run..

 

 

[lager loud]

44 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is a very long winded post and I apologise for that but from Barnsley to present in the League, I don't think many of our performances have been all that bad. Notable exceptions are Huddersfield away, probably Reading at home, Forest away, Villa away and Fulham at home! Rotherham and Burton were not great displays either. I don't think we've been awful for much of this run though. Still though LJ should be gone and should have gone already.

Good analysis. I could quibble about some of your specifics e.g. we could easily have been 3 down against Norwich before we scored. If you imagine a Norwich fan carrying out a similar review they might say they should have been out of sight before we ever got into the game. A Brentford fan could look at all the chances they passed up and conclude they might have won the game by more (I think this would be a bit "one-eyed" but that's the problem if you focus on your own "might have beens").

But IMO the key point here is that, to use a cliche, it's a game of fine margins. Finding a way to win games where there's not much between the teams is the bread and butter of a professional manager/head coach. Failing to do so in one game can be down to bad luck/refereeing. Failing to do so a decent proportion of the time over an extended period with an adequate squad isn't a sign of bad luck, it's generally a sign of bad leadership. 

[grove park city]

18 hours ago, NorfolkInChance said:

Ashton is obviously in to turd polishing as a hobby

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I reckon you've been very generous with some of those. Johnson threw away many of them with stupid decisions. Johnson out. 

 

It's not a defence of Johnson! I see various failings of his in a lot of the games too and I thought he should have gone after Fulham- that was the final final straw for me. I certainly think we could have picked up more points than we did though.

@BobBobSuperBob In the big picture I tend to agree, this run smacks of relegation- even more so when it goes on for such a long time such as this.

@lager loud I concur manager is failing, there has been luck and leadership I would say. Leadership the big problem, poor substitutions, or wrong team and rectifying his own errors which cost us time and points. Constant changing of the side, just plain rolling the dice. The prime example of the last one was Rotherham at home IMO- he made a triple sub and through luck, judgement, whatever we won the game with the subs combining. That was not shrewd management even though it worked, that was desperation!