Magnussen

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don't get why we can't afford it though. These are low fees compared to what some in the division spend. We spent 7m roughly on Engvall, Mags, COD and Moore. Mags has already been linked to the prem for 8 figures. Point is, the investment is made knowing we can nurture them into players that command a bigger fee. Kodjia 3m sold for 15m. I think it's a relatively low amount for opportunity of a high return. Not just in money either but in returns on the pitch when they come good. Dwight Gayle as an example is a low risk 10m signing but they're paying him a 10m signings worth of wages. Whereas when developed we have top players on salaries we can afford. There is some risk in it of course but the amount we've spent on individuals is low for the league. 

Bristol's City's transfer budget is?

Each season BCFC make a loss. Each season those losses have to be covered under FFP etc. These losses are being covered by Mr Lansdowns equity and loans. 

What other clubs spend in relation to Bristol City is irrelevant to the above.

 

[BRISTOL86]

12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Well let me put it this way, he has certainly made that judgement regarding Joe Bryan and Golbourne and look at their abject performances over the past 5 months in that position, my point is maybe as the case of Bryan and Golbourne prove training prowess is one thing but doesn't mean a thing if that prowess is not transferred into match day performances.

As I said he has also seen Bryan and Golbourne in training and more importantly in 5 months of match time.

Your comment about conspiracy is a little wasted on me, because I have not suggested that all, my point is can he have been any worse than Bryan and Golbourne in 'real game time' during matches over the past 5 months? and if the answer is yes, then wow 2.2mil wasted?.

 

Not sure it's '£2.2m wasted' just because he's not being played at left back, a position he wasn't signed for....it's a squad game and he lost his place to another good defender. His time will come around again no doubt. 

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

To spend £7m on someone who has not proved himself, is moving to a new country etc is too risky. Yes we have made a great deal on Kodj, but imagine we had spent £6m of that on Engvall alone, there would have been very little in the kitty for Djuric, Wright, Taylor, etc in January and currently it looks like we wouldn't see our money back at the price we have paid. Also I think if you value a player at £6m, he and his agent would expect wages commensurate with that valuation, that then get s the other players knocking on the door. SL wants the club to become self sustaining as far as possible, we are a long way from those kind of deals being the norm, Gayle and Gray had already proved themselves at this level, hence their valuation.

Yes but we didn't spend 6m on Engvall. That's the point, it's higher risk then because that's a fee we basically paid for 4 players. We did spend the money on the players so you'd assume we can afford it. 1.5m on Engvall for example is probably high for him personally but that's due to the country we are in and the fees being paid in this league. We want a player we'll have to pay double what he'd go for in Europe. It's the reality of the league. There are probably some decent deals in the lower league we should keep an eye out for like Preston does but I think Preston have a better location draw for many players. 

 

53 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol's City's transfer budget is?

Each season BCFC make a loss. Each season those losses have to be covered under FFP etc. These losses are being covered by Mr Lansdowns equity and loans. 

What other clubs spend in relation to Bristol City is irrelevant to the above.

 

Yes but a club can have a loss up to 13m per season with owner investment to cover it or that as an average over 3 years. Kodjia's sale has paid for most transfer fees and it is SL who agrees to pay the fees so if he says yes we can afford them. He knows he isn't paying for finished products. It's a gamble he is willing to take because it can mean less investment on his part in the future. So the transfer budget is whatever SL says it is. Most championship clubs post losses because there is no tv money. It's why we have invested in these young players. So we can sell them on for big money to cover said losses and to reap the rewards of development on their manageable wages. Championship football is very risky financially and Bristol City have the advantage of an owner willing to cover some loss right now for the future gains. We are lucky to have that and on paper it's a good plan. We just need to have the scouts to execute. So far with Kodjia we've made money. Magnusson's value has gone up if rumours are to be believed. Callum O'Dowda is looking more a steal every day and everyone raves about Taylor Moore. Even Engvall is a similar investment and age to Taylor Moore so that chapter isn't complete yet either. 

Point im making is SL is covering the loss and he doesn't have to. So if he says yes spend my money then it's affordable and that's really the end of it. We'll post losses this season most likely but won't be close to that 13m allowed when you factor in fees for players sold and other sell ons. Plus the higher attendances will cover more than they ever have. The club is becoming self sustainable. 

[RaspberryRed]

5 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I agree with the OP as I feel Mags is our best footballing CB. He and Taylor Moore would be a good young combination. Until the last few games we were leaking goals and I am not that convinced that Flint/Wright is a combination that will move us up to the next level.

For now though we desperately need points and continuity in the team. Whatever league we are in next season I would like to see Magnusson starting as first choice CB personally. We need quality footballers in the team, not hoofers, if we are to progress.

And I'm sure they will be over the next few seasons

[TDarwall]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Flint moved in the Summer to a "bigger" Championship club, leaving us Wright & Maggers as 1st choice centre halves. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

I would hardly say it's £2.2m wasted because LJ has decided that HM isn't a left-back, it's been well documented that HM wasn't expected to play as many games as he did during the first half of the season & this is where LJ having a chat with HM comes into place & possibly why HM has been seemingly missing for the last month or so.

HM has stated that he's happy & not injured, so I would expect things have been explained to him & with him not being expected to play so many games, that would point towards HM clearly being seen as 'one for the future' so there is plenty of time for us to get our money's worth out of him & as has been roundly acknowledged, his value has probably already risen.

To be honest the waste of money sentence was a throwaway line, in frustration at both of you ignoring my point and adding red herrings like 'conspiracy theories' and telling me that he is happy none of which I have disputed or brought up.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Not sure it's '£2.2m wasted' just because he's not being played at left back, a position he wasn't signed for....it's a squad game and he lost his place to another good defender. His time will come around again no doubt. 

 

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

To be honest the waste of money sentence was a throwaway line, in frustration at both of you ignoring my point and adding red herrings like 'conspiracy theories' and telling me that he is happy none of which I have disputed or brought up.

I didn't aim any comments at you with regards conspiracy theories. Just the general OTIB trend to look for something sinister in something fairly mundane. We have 2 or 3 options for most positions and at present the good performances of one player are limiting the opportunities of another.

Fairly normal I'd say. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I didn't aim any comments at you with regards conspiracy theories. Just the general OTIB trend to look for something sinister in something fairly mundane. We have 2 or 3 options for most positions and at present the good performances of one player are limiting the opportunities of another.

Fairly normal I'd say. 

At left back? really?, probably one good game in 5 months from our 2 left backs?.

[Tears in rain]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

At left back? really?, probably one good game in 5 months from our 2 left backs?.

Joe Bryan did had a cracker Friday night which means that will cement his place till the end of the season 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

At left back? really?, probably one good game in 5 months from our 2 left backs?.

I was referring to Bailey Wright. Magnusson is a centre back as far as I can tell. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I was referring to Bailey Wright. Magnusson is a centre back as far as I can tell. 

And Korey Smith is a midfielder as far as I can tell.

[BRISTOL86]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And Korey Smith is a midfielder as far as I can tell.

I don't know why you're being argumentative with me. I don't choose where he plays.

[Tears in rain]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And Korey Smith is a midfielder as far as I can tell.

Touché sir! 

Korey smith has been good at RB... highlights how good a player he is for us. 

[Up The City!]

He's a potential left back all day long imo. 

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Tears in rain said:

Touché sir! 

Korey smith has been good at RB... highlights how good a player he is for us. 

You could put Korey in goal and he'd do it with 110% gusto. But the right back position is a bit different to others in that one is injured and the other is Adam Matthews, which is arguably a fate worse than injury.  

My take on Magnusson is that its pointless putting him in a secondary position when we have actual left backs fit and ready.

LJ sees him as an out and out CB - he's said as much - so if another CB is in better form he doesn't play right now. That's not to say it won't change. 

I don't see how Wright could be dropped at present.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I don't know why you're being argumentative with me. I don't choose where he plays.

Excuse me?, I never replied to any of your posts until you chipped in with my reply to another poster.

My point is I believe as do quite a few others that Magnusson could have been tried, he certainly could not be much worse than the other 2 have been over the past 5 months and the fact that he is predominantly a CB is moot when considering how quickly he converted a midfielder to right back when he ran out of options.

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yes but a club can have a loss up to 13m per season with owner investment to cover it or that as an average over 3 years. Kodjia's sale has paid for most transfer fees and it is SL who agrees to pay the fees so if he says yes we can afford them. He knows he isn't paying for finished products. It's a gamble he is willing to take because it can mean less investment on his part in the future. So the transfer budget is whatever SL says it is. Most championship clubs post losses because there is no tv money. It's why we have invested in these young players. So we can sell them on for big money to cover said losses and to reap the rewards of development on their manageable wages. Championship football is very risky financially and Bristol City have the advantage of an owner willing to cover some loss right now for the future gains. We are lucky to have that and on paper it's a good plan. We just need to have the scouts to execute. So far with Kodjia we've made money. Magnusson's value has gone up if rumours are to be believed. Callum O'Dowda is looking more a steal every day and everyone raves about Taylor Moore. Even Engvall is a similar investment and age to Taylor Moore so that chapter isn't complete yet either. 

Point im making is SL is covering the loss and he doesn't have to. So if he says yes spend my money then it's affordable and that's really the end of it. We'll post losses this season most likely but won't be close to that 13m allowed when you factor in fees for players sold and other sell ons. Plus the higher attendances will cover more than they ever have. The club is becoming self sustainable. 

City cannot spend spend spend. City cannot lose more than six million pounds a season unless Mr Lansdown covers further losses. Mr Lansdown is hardly investing his money covering debts via equity and a personal loan (twenty million plus?) to the FC.

Even with the sale of Kodja City will still most likely lose money. His sale will not cover the above loan.

The club is far off self sustainable.

Millions are being spent on players who are not playing in the starting XI. For a club of limited means I would question if that is a good plan.

[Tears in rain]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You could put Korey in goal and he'd do it with 110% gusto. But the right back position is a bit different to others in that one is injured and the other is Adam Matthews, which is arguably a fate worse than injury.  

My take on Magnusson is that its pointless putting him in a secondary position when we have actual left backs fit and ready.

LJ sees him as an out and out CB - he's said as much - so if another CB is in better form he doesn't play right now. That's not to say it won't change. 

I don't see how Wright could be dropped at present.

So true Korey throws himself in all the time which I value so highly! 

I see what you mean LJ was forced in to putting Korey at RB whilst he had JB and SG at his disposal for LB. 

I tend to agree I think he is one of those Centre Backs who can play ful back when required.

However I do really want to see him given ago at that position.

No way can you drop Wright again agree with this.. since he's come in it's clear to see how much he wants to be physical and tackle people.

Rotherham made a cracking tackle on the halfway line, against Villa he was doing his best to bully Kodjia. (Physicality we have missed)

[OldlandReddies]

11 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

He's a left sided CB and Bailey Wright has been better than him. It's really that simple IMO. 

As above. Magners will of course be dissapointed but he knows the score and his chance will come again. To be a successful Championship side you need a quality squad with at least two players covering each position. Just because players cant get in the 11 doesnt mean they are unhappy or that they should move on, its the norm these days.

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Excuse me?, I never replied to any of your posts until you chipped in with my reply to another poster.

My point is I believe as do quite a few others that Magnusson could have been tried, he certainly could not be much worse than the other 2 have been over the past 5 months and the fact that he is predominantly a CB is moot when considering how quickly he converted a midfielder to right back when he ran out of options.

Like I said how do you know he hasn't tried HM at left back in training and seen nothing improving on what we have and thus no reason to play someone out of position?

The change to the loan rules has resulted in teams having to maintain larger squads and part of that conundrum is players not getting games. But form changes and I'm sure he'll get his chance to stake a claim again before long.

[cityred exile]

5 hours ago, TDarwall said:

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Flint moved in the Summer to a "bigger" Championship club, leaving us Wright & Maggers as 1st choice centre halves. 

NO NO NO                 Why not go back to  352   like for the Burton match ,  Wright Flint Maggers       easy !

[Tipps69]

32 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

To be honest the waste of money sentence was a throwaway line, in frustration at both of you ignoring my point and adding red herrings like 'conspiracy theories' and telling me that he is happy none of which I have disputed or brought up.

 

 

 

 

My point of HM seemingly being happy was in response to you saying that he hadn't been afforded the opportunity to play left-back.

HM has stated himself that he is happy & that there are no problems as far as he's concerned  so he doesn't have an issue with not being given the chance to replace JB or SG......... or that is what he has said in the public domain.

I would expect that part of what has gone on with HM not playing so much recently is that he was due to have a period of rest once we brought someone in to afford him that opportunity & once BW had joined, it gave HM the chance for a rest.

His reason for needing the rest have been mentioned before on here, he had a lack of any break during the summer because of the Euro's & joined us more or less straight after Iceland were eliminated. He also wasn't expected to play the amount of games that he has (or not straight off anyway) & this has led to him having a break which coincided with his birthday on a Saturday as well.

[dunsteral]

He may get an opportunity to play at centre half in the next match at brentford on the

1st april, cos bailey wright is in the socceroos squad to play a game in sydney on

Tuesday 28th march. Having recently flown back from sydney myself I would be

Surprised if he is considered for our game due to jetlag.

[JamesBCFC]

3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And Korey Smith is a midfielder as far as I can tell.

Korey Smith is primarily a midfielder, but has had experience at Right Back during his time at Norwich (during which I believe they were promoted) and Oldham, that we have been forced (to an extent) to play at that position because of injuries.

[JamesBCFC]

14 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I agree with the OP as I feel Mags is our best footballing CB. He and Taylor Moore would be a good young combination. Until the last few games we were leaking goals and I am not that convinced that Flint/Wright is a combination that will move us up to the next level.

For now though we desperately need points and continuity in the team. Whatever league we are in next season I would like to see Magnusson starting as first choice CB personally. We need quality footballers in the team, not hoofers, if we are to progress.

A combination I'd like to see tested in pre season and perhaps a few cup games next season. Think they could/would work well together.

[JoeAman08]

11 hours ago, Cowshed said:

City cannot spend spend spend. City cannot lose more than six million pounds a season unless Mr Lansdown covers further losses. Mr Lansdown is hardly investing his money covering debts via equity and a personal loan (twenty million plus?) to the FC.

Even with the sale of Kodja City will still most likely lose money. His sale will not cover the above loan.

The club is far off self sustainable.

Millions are being spent on players who are not playing in the starting XI. For a club of limited means I would question if that is a good plan.

If we are spending it then I'm sure SL is alright with covering it. I don't know what you suggest we do if not buy young and develop them. Do we solely rely on our academy? Do we only sign players on free transfers(if we can afford their wages)? Do we rely more on loans from other clubs? How do we compete with parachute payments long term if not this way? In my mind, it's the only option we have. We will look for deals when we can find them like Brownhill but even lower league players are costing 7 figures(Bogle rumoured to be about 1m for half a L2 season, 3m for Roofe and 1.5m for O'Dowda and even the young guy at Exeter has been slapped with a 2m price tag). Point is, we can either spend the going rate as we have or we can try to compete and get better through loansand free transfers. There isn't much in between. People will use Preston as an example but they've got a location advantage and even then, how do they improve from here? They're in a similar position to last year and will struggle to find improvements because of their limited means. We've seen this with Ipswich. You can create a good team on a small budget but when you can't afford to keep players you are left with a task to replace them and stay relevant. 

Basically, if you want to be a self sustainable club in the championship you have to have some years at a loss. With Kodjia, Ayling, Agard and Williams sales we've probably taken home a max of 17.5m add on Adomah and Bolasie sell ons we are in the low 20s of millions in income. Add to that ticket sales and all that other stuff and our losses this year shouldn't be too bad. Take into account most clubs will be posting losses because that's the state of the championship. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Korey Smith is primarily a midfielder, but has had experience at Right Back during his time at Norwich (during which I believe they were promoted) and Oldham, that we have been forced (to an extent) to play at that position because of injuries.

I know all of that, my point is Magnusson has also played left back in fact I suspect more times than Smith has played full back, so why hasn't he even been properly TRIED in the left back position given how poor Golbourne and Bryan have been for most of the past 5 months?, for me it is really that simple, be honest he would have had to have been really poor to be any worse.

 

[Tipps69]

12 hours ago, Cowshed said:

City cannot spend spend spend. City cannot lose more than six million pounds a season unless Mr Lansdown covers further losses. Mr Lansdown is hardly investing his money covering debts via equity and a personal loan (twenty million plus?) to the FC.

Even with the sale of Kodja City will still most likely lose money. His sale will not cover the above loan.

The club is far off self sustainable.

Millions are being spent on players who are not playing in the starting XI. For a club of limited means I would question if that is a good plan.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that City won't see another transfer window like the one of last summer again (or anytime soon).

And I'd be very surprised if LJ looks to sign so many players with an eye to the future in any one window again.

But that being said, it wouldn't surprise me to see City's transfer record broken this summer & possibly not just the once!! From the outside looking in, I would say that we'll be looking for a right-back, right-midfielder (DC possibly), goalkeeper, left-back (maybe as LJ clearly rates JB highly), a central-midfielder (to maybe replace GO'N) & a striker (to replace TA).

But that being said, central-midfield maybe covered by JB (Josh Brownhill) or a now fully fit KS.

But realistically, for decent quality, we'll have to spend a decent amount of money on a goalkeeper, right-back & striker & all of which could cost us more than the £3m or so that is our current transfer record outlay.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could spend another £15m but this time on maybe 5 players instead of 15 or so.

[JamesBCFC]

23 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I think it's pretty safe to assume that City won't see another transfer window like the one of last summer again (or anytime soon).

And I'd be very surprised if LJ looks to sign so many players with an eye to the future in any one window again.

But that being said, it wouldn't surprise me to see City's transfer record broken this summer & possibly not just the once!! From the outside looking in, I would say that we'll be looking for a right-back, right-midfielder (DC possibly), goalkeeper, left-back (maybe as LJ clearly rates JB highly), a central-midfielder (to maybe replace GO'N) & a striker (to replace TA).

But that being said, central-midfield maybe covered by JB (Josh Brownhill) or a now fully fit KS.

But realistically, for decent quality, we'll have to spend a decent amount of money on a goalkeeper, right-back & striker & all of which could cost us more than the £3m or so that is our current transfer record outlay.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could spend another £15m but this time on maybe 5 players instead of 15 or so.

Realistic list, and I'd potentially add a right midfielder to replace Cotterill.

[Kingswoodactor]

I'd say that we desperately need a goal scoring central midfielder, who can bang in 8-10 a season. 

Alan Judge or something very similar would be ideal.