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Samuel Armenteros


BCFC OF SWEDEN

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5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So a city official seeks out someone who can translate in to Dutch, to email them, but it’s only them that are interested..?!

I don’t think anyone bar a couple of hundred city fans could give 2 hoots about Willem. And then it’s a bit of banter and a drinking club, hardly any sort of official link, or even the basis of such. 

I would imagine that a friendly between the 2 clubs would hardly even be understood by the vast majority of fans and certainly not be attractive. 

And no, I wouldn’t class a Facebook post as an “official approach”! 

Most Dutch people can communicate fine in English so communication wouldn't be a problem.

I think it would be good. They play at a good level, surely it's a better test than friendlies against Yeovil, Weston and Cheltenham that we do every single year. Would get a bigger crowd too at AG because Willem would travel.

I can't see anything other than positives from going further and sharing ideas on training, scouting and coaching. We aren't competing with them and would definitely learn something new.

 

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10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Most Dutch people can communicate fine in English so communication wouldn't be a problem.

I think it would be good. They play at a good level, surely it's a better test than friendlies against Yeovil, Weston and Cheltenham that we do every single year. Would get a bigger crowd too at AG because Willem would travel.

I can't see anything other than positives from going further and sharing ideas on training, scouting and coaching. We aren't competing with them and would definitely learn something new.

 

There is no reason not to create a link with them, but there is no actual reason to do so either, with them. 

There is absolutely no link between us, other than a few fans who use it as a bit of a jolly, which is great, but hardly the basis for an official club link. 

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9 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

There is no reason not to create a link with them, but there is no actual reason to do so either, with them. 

Well, for the reasons above. I can't really see any downside, they're a good Dutch team. It would be incredibly arrogant to think we couldn't possibly learn something from them in terms of coaching, scouting or training. Sounds like they're open to the idea and this relationship between fans of the two clubs has been going on for over 10 years now. Seems to be like a no brainer to open dialogue and share ideas. Certainly something i'd look into if it were up to me.

I've heard their matchday entertainment and hospitality is far better than ours! Maybe Mark Kelly would fancy a trip over there for some new ideas.

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There is absolutely no link between us, other than a few fans who use it as a bit of a jolly, which is great, but hardly the basis for an official club link. 

Well there is, hundreds of fans from the two clubs have attended games together either here or in Holland. You may not like the idea of it for whatever reason, but that's a link. Official or not.

So what if fans use it as a 'bit of a jolly', has to start somewhere. Seems to me slightly strange that City haven't explored a more official relationship with them personally. It's not like it's Welton Rovers - Willem are a very respectable side.

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

So a city official seeks out someone who can translate in to Dutch, to email them, but it’s only them that are interested..?!

I don’t think anyone bar a couple of hundred city fans could give 2 hoots about Willem. And then it’s a bit of banter and a drinking club, hardly any sort of official link, or even the basis of such. 

I would imagine that a friendly between the 2 clubs would hardly even be understood by the vast majority of fans and certainly not be attractive. 

And no, I wouldn’t class a Facebook post as an “official approach”! 

Seeing as he never managed to send an email, then no I do not think he took it seriously.

Regardless of if there is any link, city decided that it was better to play against a Dutch side who are worse than willem in a friendly. So on your logic there it doesn’t make sense. 

Was a friendly agaisnt twente understood by the masses? I doubt it due to the poor turnout from both home and travelling fans.

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33 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Seeing as he never managed to send an email, then no I do not think he took it seriously.

Regardless of if there is any link, city decided that it was better to play against a Dutch side who are worse than willem in a friendly. So on your logic there it doesn’t make sense. 

Was a friendly agaisnt twente understood by the masses? I doubt it due to the poor turnout from both home and travelling fans.

I had a few pints with a bunch of West Brom fans on holiday. 

I now demand that the club arrange a friendly and “like” each other on Facebook! 

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20 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I had a few pints with a bunch of West Brom fans on holiday. 

I now demand that the club arrange a friendly and “like” each other on Facebook! 

We have played West Brom in the past in a friendly im sure? 

Your missing my points completely in your normal scarcastic manner. 

Regardless of an official link between the two, can you explain how twente for example was a better friendly than one against williem? 

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1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

Seeing as he never managed to send an email, then no I do not think he took it seriously.

Regardless of if there is any link, city decided that it was better to play against a Dutch side who are worse than willem in a friendly. So on your logic there it doesn’t make sense. 

Was a friendly agaisnt twente understood by the masses? I doubt it due to the poor turnout from both home and travelling fans.

FC Twente are a bigger club than Willem, having won the Dutch league less than a decade ago and been consistantly in Europe most of the time since.

However severe financial troubles have meant they've had to get rid of most senior players.

So yes, Willem are a better team this season, but more often than not Twente are the better team.

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10 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

FC Twente are a bigger club than Willem, having won the Dutch league less than a decade ago and been consistantly in Europe most of the time since.

However severe financial troubles have meant they've had to get rid of most senior players.

So yes, Willem are a better team this season, but more often than not Twente are the better team.

In the last four years, willem have finished above them twice and the other two times were by around 10 points. Hardly that much better, for just this season?

i still fail to see, even if you are going on past glories how a friendly against twente was any more beneficial than one agaisnt twente, even more on barbs3’s getting the attention of the masses. As the friendly agaisnt twente clearly failed in that.

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3 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

In the last four years, willem have finished above them twice and the other two times were by around 10 points. Hardly that much better, for just this season?

I think we're at risk of diluting the discussion a bit here into something it isn't. 

I think when it comes to Dutch clubs, there's not that much to pick between them unless they're one of the biggest clubs in that league (Ajax, PSV etc). A friendly vs Twente compared to a friendly vs Willem wouldn't have been dramatically different in quality of opposition. 

What is strange however is why the club repeatedly chooses to ignore the foundations which have already been laid with Willem by supporters.

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6 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

In the last four years, willem have finished above them twice and the other two times were by around 10 points. Hardly that much better, for just this season?

http://www.league321.com/netherlands-football-historic-league-tables.html

I picked 12 of these tablea at random

Willem finished above Twente 1 time out of those 12

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

http://www.league321.com/netherlands-football-historic-league-tables.html

I picked 12 of these tablea at random

Willem finished above Twente 1 time out of those 12

Historically yes, but surely clubs don’t pick friendlies on teams historical ability?

Otherwise we might aswell play Portsmouth in a friendly as they used to be in the Prem, won fa cups, been in Europe etc.

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I wouldn't be surprised if age was a factor in us not taking him on permanently, whether he was good enough or not. He's 28 and I guess he would have been 26 then? Been club policy for a while, so far as I know, to only sign players over the age of 24 in exceptional circumstances - although I'm sure you can point to exceptions!

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19 hours ago, Harry said:

Fair play. Good finish that. 

I’m so inclined to shout “Willem II” so loud to BCFC!! 

Really don’t know why the club don’t embrace the fan connections and build a relationship with the club. Mutual beneficiaries of detail of existing players, scouting networks, loan arrangements, friendlies, youth coaching etc etc. 

Numerous years on now and still silence. Oh what could’ve been. 

because most of us don't care about Willem II

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10 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

Historically yes, but surely clubs don’t pick friendlies on teams historical ability?

Otherwise we might aswell play Portsmouth in a friendly as they used to be in the Prem, won fa cups, been in Europe etc.

Fair point, but

1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

Regardless of if there is any link, city decided that it was better to play against a Dutch side who are worse than willem in a friendly. So on your logic there it doesn’t make sense. 

At the time of the friendly Twente were the better team, having finished in a Europa League position last season while Willem were bottom half.

So your "team worse than Willem" point is invalid- at the time they were a side who had finished half a dozen places higher and in the top 7 of their division.

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5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Fair point, but

At the time of the friendly Twente were the better team, having finished in a Europa League position last season while Willem were bottom half.

So your "team worse than Willem" point is invalid- at the time they were a side who had finished half a dozen places higher and in the top 7 of their division.

Come on James this is almost @BS4 on Tour... esque debating of minutiae :P 

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23 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think we're at risk of diluting the discussion a bit here into something it isn't. 

I think when it comes to Dutch clubs, there's not that much to pick between them unless they're one of the biggest clubs in that league (Ajax, PSV etc). A friendly vs Twente compared to a friendly vs Willem wouldn't have been dramatically different in quality of opposition. 

What is strange however is why the club repeatedly chooses to ignore the foundations which have already been laid with Willem by supporters.

With regards to the final paragraph, yes the question could be asked, but how many induvidual fans of ours are actually active in this?

2-300 tops?

If so thats 1% of our attending crowd, 1.5% at the higher end.

If its more than that then obviously its a higher percentage but still a very small amount.

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10 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Fair point, but

At the time of the friendly Twente were the better team, having finished in a Europa League position last season while Willem were bottom half.

So your "team worse than Willem" point is invalid- at the time they were a side who had finished half a dozen places higher and in the top 7 of their division.

Problem is, with stats it can be looked at in any way really. 

Yes the season prior twente finished higher, but if you look it was 9 points, 3 wins. Hardly huge over the course of a season?

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Come on James this is almost @BS4 on Tour... esque debating of minutiae :P 

Come, come PF - I only deal in facts rather than believe some of the made up guff that is often posted on here....and I’d never stoop to the alarming depths of using foul language and personal abuse just because someone disagrees with me...you know, the kind of thing @JamesBCFC does....

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3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

With regards to the final paragraph, yes the question could be asked, but how many induvidual fans of ours are actually active in this?

2-300 tops?

If so thats 1% of our attending crowd, 1.5% at the higher end.

If its more than that then obviously its a higher percentage but still a very small amount.

Still far more than fans involved with Twente for example. 

I just think if the foundations are already in place and Willem are keen, why not explore a more official connection? To me it's obvious we could share knowledge, ideas, scouting - maybe even loan players over where suitable. Perhaps players with ability who need a bit of time to adapt to the Championship (Liam Walsh for example). Just seems like potentially quite a fruitful idea with no risk.

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3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Come, come PF - I only deal in facts rather than believe some of the made up guff that is often posted on here....and I’d never stoop to the alarming depths of using foul language and personal abuse just because someone disagrees with me...you know, the kind of thing @JamesBCFC does....

You do like your facts! 

I won't comment on the rest :shocking:

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7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Still far more than fans involved with Twente for example. 

I just think if the foundations are already in place and Willem are keen, why not explore a more official connection? To me it's obvious we could share knowledge, ideas, scouting - maybe even loan players over where suitable. Perhaps players with ability who need a bit of time to adapt to the Championship (Liam Walsh for example). Just seems like potentially quite a fruitful idea with no risk.

It is, but when have club friendlies been about who the fans like?

You wont see an friendly between Utrecht and Manor Farm this season but there are Utrecht fans who fly over to watch Manor Farm (I accept the cases arent identical by a long shot, but an example to highlight things).

Sharing knowledge and scouting could definitely benefit, but is the Eredivisie really weaker than the Championship? I'd suggest most teams are on a par, so the likes of Walsh wouldnt necessarily get game time on a loan, nor would the Eredivisie necessarily help him get used to the Championship.

 

A link with a club overseas is definitely something City should look at, Willem or not.

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9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Come, come PF - I only deal in facts rather than believe some of the made up guff that is often posted on here....and I’d never stoop to the alarming depths of using foul language and personal abuse just because someone disagrees with me...you know, the kind of thing @JamesBCFC does....

Recent example?

Particularly of the abuse, otherwise that is slander.

I accept I have been abrasive on here at times- usually in response to a similar comment, but have taken a step back from the forum and am actively making sure not to do those things now- no matter how many digs you make at me.

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

It is, but when have club friendlies been about who the fans like?

They haven't, but that's not to say that in some cases it wouldn't be a good thing.

4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

You wont see an friendly between Utrecht and Manor Farm this season but there are Utrecht fans who fly over to watch Manor Farm (I accept the cases arent identical by a long shot, but an example to highlight things).

I think the difference in level between the two clubs make that a totally different comparison. Besides, this Willem thing is hundreds of fans, not a handful.

4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Sharing knowledge and scouting could definitely benefit, but is the Eredivisie really weaker than the Championship? I'd suggest most teams are on a par, so the likes of Walsh wouldnt necessarily get game time on a loan, nor would the Eredivisie necessarily help him get used to the Championship.

Who knows, can't really be bothered to discuss that. I think it is outside of the top teams. I think the likes of Chelsea sending lots of players to Vitesse adds a bit of weight to my point though, it's a less physical league that's for sure. That's why I picked Walsh as an example. I think ability wise he's good, but lacks a bit of nous and time on the ball to thrive. He'd get a bit more playing in Europe and it might help him.

4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

 

A link with a club overseas is definitely something City should look at,  Willem or not.

Agreed - and whilst we've got foundations in place with a club at a good level, surely it makes sense to explore it.

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1 hour ago, AshtonPark said:

We have played West Brom in the past in a friendly im sure? 

Your missing my points completely in your normal scarcastic manner. 

Regardless of an official link between the two, can you explain how twente for example was a better friendly than one against williem? 

No, but was it any worse..?

It’s obviously what was available and selected, mutually.

Maybe it all came about as a result of an “official approach” rather than a Facebook post..?

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Recent example?

Particularly of the abuse, otherwise that is slander.

I accept I have been abrasive on here at times- usually in response to a similar comment, but have taken a step back from the forum and am actively making sure not to do those things now- no matter how many digs you make at me.

Dunno why I was dragged into your conversation with PF - didn’t want to be involved at all....

Have a look back at the names you’ve called people on here and the terms you’ve used....not so long ago you were defending LJ after another awful performance....I disagreed with you using calm and polite language....your reply told me to ‘**** off with this bullsh*t” and you called me an ‘over the top negative bellend’ - pretty abusive I’m sure you’d agree....and countless other examples of what you’ve called others too...I didn’t want to get involved in a conversation with you today....but you and PF decided to mention me and have a little dig....harmless fun I know....pity you can’t be like that all the time....have a good day...

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5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Dunno why I was dragged into your conversation with PF - didn’t want to be involved at all....

Have a look back at the names you’ve called people on here and the terms you’ve used....not so long ago you were defending LJ after another awful performance....I disagreed with you using calm and polite language....your reply told me to ‘**** off with this bullsh*t” and you called me an ‘over the top negative bellend’ - pretty abusive I’m sure you’d agree....and countless other examples of what you’ve called others too...I didn’t want to get involved in a conversation with you today....but you and PF decided to mention me and have a little dig....harmless fun I know....pity you can’t be like that all the time....have a good day...

Apologies didn't mean to stir anything - wasn't aware of any bad feeling, was just having a joke!

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2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Dunno why I was dragged into your conversation with PF - didn’t want to be involved at all....

Have a look back at the names you’ve called people on here and the terms you’ve used....not so long ago you were defending LJ after another awful performance....I disagreed with you using calm and polite language....your reply told me to ‘**** off with this bullsh*t” and you called me an ‘over the top negative bellend’ - pretty abusive I’m sure you’d agree....and countless other examples of what you’ve called others too...I didn’t want to get involved in a conversation with you today....but you and PF decided to mention me and have a little dig....harmless fun I know....pity you can’t be like that all the time....have a good day...

I didnt mention you at all, I responded to a comment where you were.

From memory the "**** with this bullsh*t" was after you had tagged me into a thread I hadnt commented on at the time and had a dig at me, there was certainly at least one occasion where you did that, so to not expect any ire for doing so would be a very foolish thing.

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8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

No, but was it any worse..?

It’s obviously what was available and selected, mutually.

Maybe it all came about as a result of an “official approach” rather than a Facebook post..?

This Facebook post you keep mentioning about, if that did happen and I do not think it did surely someone would have a screenshot? Or was it privately to the city page? 

 

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3 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

This Facebook post you keep mentioning about, if that did happen and I do not think it did surely someone would have a screenshot? Or was it privately to the city page? 

 

No idea, I just remember it being mentioned a year or 2 back, when the conversation did the rounds. 

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