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Monkeh
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An excellent, if somewhat scathing article by Tanya Aldred.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/jan/16/england-are-collapse-specialists-but-hobart-ignominy-sets-new-low

Interestingly, she writes:

Wouldn’t it, you found yourself thinking to yourself, against all odds and the evidence of the last four Tests, be something for Joe Root to win the game and salvage something from the series with that longed-for Australian Ashes hundred?

Fool!

Great Minds, and all that....

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1 hour ago, tin said:

Aggers is usually bang on the money and while I agree it’s time for radical change, I’m not sure this is the way to go. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60016410

Glos and Somerset to merge into Wessex, for example, in a new 10-team first-class county setup? 

I ******* despair at this.   What we need to be doing is prioritising the CC not killing it off. 

 

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Focus needs to return to Test cricket for the ECB and it needs to be the ongoing priority.

The review and changes to our one day cricket were needed after the 2015 World Cup but our T20 / ODI team is now one of the best in the world and will continue to be. As new, young players come through they will be used to this aggressive, expansive form of cricket and I see no reason why we won’t continue to thrive. In short, if it’s not broke don’t fix it. 

Test cricket as the name suggests is a mental and physical test over 5 days, often in unfamiliar conditions and can include being away from home for months at a time.  We need to do all we can to prepare players for this rather than chuck them in at India or Australia and hope for the best. 
 

I hope there are changes for the upcoming WI tour, the England camp seems to comfy for one. Get Kirsten in and identify players who have the temperament as much as the skill to succeed in Test cricket. 

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1 hour ago, TomF said:

I ******* despair at this.   What we need to be doing is prioritising the CC not killing it off. 

 

I can see the potential benefits, but I'd rather my county (Glos) wasn't taken away from me when we're finally looking like we mean business. 

As far as Aggers' proposal goes, we already have a 10-team First Division of County Cricket. How would an 8-team Second Division going down to three days (from four) benefit the Test XI, especially when there are some big counties in it?

I loathe The 100 and franchise sport in general, and the concept of potentially rewarding some of the big ground counties (Glamorgan being a prime example) turns my stomach. 

Edited by tin
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1 hour ago, tin said:

I can see the potential benefits, but I'd rather my county (Glos) wasn't taken away from me when we're finally looking like we mean business. 

As far as Aggers' proposal goes, we already have a 10-team First Division of County Cricket. How would an 8-team Second Division going down to three days (from four) benefit the Test XI, especially when there are some big counties in it?

I loathe The 100 and franchise sport in general, and the concept of potentially rewarding some of the big ground counties (Glamorgan being a prime example) turns my stomach. 

There wasn't an issue with the county game between 2009-2011 when England were the best team in the world however.  What changed was the complete dominance of the short form at the expense of the CC and ten years down the line we're reaping our just deserts.

The CC should be at the forefront of the season, not crammed in to April & September.    Get rid of the 100, have a 50 over tournement run alongside the T20 Blast with fixtures only on Fri/Sat/Sun and then lace the CC around that.  It's perfectly achievable given we used to have the CC + Sunday League 50 Overs AND a 50 overs knockout tournement. 

Unfortunately the idiots at the ECB will most likely ditch the T20 blast meaning the biggest revenue earner for all 18 clubs is lost (Excluding test venues/matches) and then wait till they're in such financial dire straits that they'll float the plan to merge them down to 10 teams with zero identity. 

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25 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Apart from anything else, I don't understand how you can hope to aid development and increase your player pool by almost halving the amount of First Class sides. Makes no sense.

Not least all the academic/local cricket that feeds into them.  Get rid of somerset and you loose the influx of players rising up through schools like Milford and good minor counties like Devon etc. 

 

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3 hours ago, TomF said:

I ******* despair at this.   What we need to be doing is prioritising the CC not killing it off. 

 

I can sympathise with your view, but County Cricket just isn't producing battle hardened Test players for England these days. Contrast this with Sheffield Shield in Australia where just 6 teams play the sort of cricket that produces Test players.

In England we have gone for one day comps, the blast, the hundred all to attract spectators and generate cash to support the existing structure. If you want to see the best players you'll see them in these comps and rarely in the county champs, where red ball contracted test players don't even play anymore. 

Much as I've loved county cricket I can see that it's no longer fit for purpose, doesn't produce Test players, is of little interest and attracts a diminishing number of spectators.

Perhaps reducing the number of counties would be sensible, which would leave space for the money making stuff, and also make sure that the best players play in the 4 day game against the best opposition.

Edited by Calculus
Typos
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I was at a sportsman's charity dinner about 3 years ago where Agnew was the guest speaker and did a Q&A. The subject of county cricket was raised and he thought it was inevitable that the number of counties would reduce at some point. He made the point that his own county Leicestershire would likely be one of the prime casualties so he had no desire to see it happen, but he couldn't see how all of them could remain competitive and viable long term. He was also very much not in favour of the Hundred, though his view may have changed since.

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Personally, to help the England Test team I would: 

  • Play the 50-over stuff throughout April
  • Play County Cricket from the first week of May to the first week of Sept, Mon-Thurs, a total of 18 games in 18 weeks, put it on free-to-air TV and promote it
  • Play T20 Blast on Fridays alongside the County Cricket season, two nine-team North/South divisions (minimum 8 games each) plus knock-out rounds and Finals Day
  • Play The 100 after Finals Day solely in September. 

Anyone available but not playing Tests for England should play for their county, instead of carrying the drinks all summer. 

For the big Test tours, like the Ashes and India, schedule in at least two first-class games as warm-up matches and maybe a third midway through the five-Test series.

Get rid of Root, Silverwood, Bobat, Giles, and Harrison. Reinstate a national selector. Employ a Test coach and a white-ball coach. Two coaches, two different formats. 

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59 minutes ago, tin said:

Personally, to help the England Test team I would: 

  • Play the 50-over stuff throughout April
  • Play County Cricket from the first week of May to the first week of Sept, Mon-Thurs, a total of 18 games in 18 weeks, put it on free-to-air TV and promote it
  • Play T20 Blast on Fridays alongside the County Cricket season, two nine-team North/South divisions (minimum 8 games each) plus knock-out rounds and Finals Day
  • Play The 100 after Finals Day solely in September. 

Anyone available but not playing Tests for England should play for their county, instead of carrying the drinks all summer. 

For the big Test tours, like the Ashes and India, schedule in at least two first-class games as warm-up matches and maybe a third midway through the five-Test series.

Get rid of Root, Silverwood, Bobat, Giles, and Harrison. Reinstate a national selector. Employ a Test coach and a white-ball coach. Two coaches, two different formats. 

Trouble is they want the 100 on during the school holidays, its a total mess.  

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Saw this posted on Facebook 

 

England’s test cricket side batting woes since the tour of the West Indies in January 2019. All you cricket fans take note!

 

Windies v England 2019

 

1st test-

1st inns 77 all out

2nd inns 167-3 to 246 all out. Collapse 7/79

 

2nd test-

1st inns 187 all out

2nd inns 132 all out

 

3rd test-

1st inns 232-4 to 277 all out. Collapse 6/45.

 

England v Ireland 2019 one off test match

 

Eng 1st inns 85 all out

 

England v Australia 2019 Ashes

 

1st test

Eng 2nd inns 146 all out

 

3rd test

Eng 1st inns 67 all out

 

4th test

Eng 2nd inns 197 all out

 

NZ v England 2019

 

1st test

Eng 1st inns 277-4 to 353 all out. Collapse 6/76

 

SA v Eng 2019

 

1st test 

Eng 1st inns 181 all out

Eng 2nd inns 204-3 to 268 all out. Collapse 7/64

 

2nd test

Eng 1st inns 185-4 to 269 all out. Collapse 6/84. 

 

England v West Indies 2020

 

1st test

Eng 1st inns 204 all out

Eng 2nd inns 249-3 to 313 all out. Collapse 7/64

 

Eng v Pakistan 2020

 

1st test

Eng 1st inns 219 all out

 

India v England 2021

 

1st test

Eng 2nd inns 178 all out

 

2nd test

Eng 1st inns 134 all out 

Eng 2nd inns 164 all out 

 

3rd test

Eng 1st inns 112 all out 

Eng 2nd inns 81 all out

 

4th test

Eng 1st inns 205 all out 

Eng 2nd inns 135 all out 

 

Eng v NZ 2021

 

2nd test

Eng 2nd inns 122 all out

 

Eng v India 2021

 

1st test 

Eng 1st inns 183 all out

Eng 2nd inns 211-4 to 303 all out. Collapse 6/92

 

2nd test 

Eng 2nd inns 120 all out

 

4th test 

Eng 2 nd inns 141-2 to 210 all out. Collapse 8/69

 

I’ve not included the recent ashes debacle

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A video has been leaked showing the police putting an end to a “party” involving some England and Australia players at 6am on Monday. The video only shows a few players from either side having a drink outside but the video was filmed by Graham Thorpe who drunkenly narrates which players are there and said he was videoing it for the lawyers. It’s going to be pretty uncomfortable for him given it has made it to the press. Fitting way to end a shambles of a tour. 
 

 

Edited by SuperRed
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17 minutes ago, SuperRed said:

A video has been leaked showing the police putting an end to a “party” involving some England and Australia players at 6am on Monday. The video only shows a few players from either side having a drink outside but the video was filmed by Graham Thorpe who drunkenly narrates which players are there and said he was videoing it for the lawyers. It’s going to be pretty uncomfortable for him given it has made it to the press. Fitting way to end a shambles of a tour. 
 

 

What always happens at the end of a series. Non story really.

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On 17/01/2022 at 19:42, phantom said:

Saw this posted on Facebook 

 

England’s test cricket side batting woes since the tour of the West Indies in January 2019. All you cricket fans take note!

 

Windies v England 2019

 

1st test-

1st inns 77 all out

2nd inns 167-3 to 246 all out. Collapse 7/79

 

2nd test-

1st inns 187 all out

2nd inns 132 all out

 

3rd test-

1st inns 232-4 to 277 all out. Collapse 6/45.

 

England v Ireland 2019 one off test match

 

Eng 1st inns 85 all out

 

England v Australia 2019 Ashes

 

1st test

Eng 2nd inns 146 all out

 

3rd test

Eng 1st inns 67 all out

 

4th test

Eng 2nd inns 197 all out

 

NZ v England 2019

 

1st test

Eng 1st inns 277-4 to 353 all out. Collapse 6/76

 

SA v Eng 2019

 

1st test 

Eng 1st inns 181 all out

Eng 2nd inns 204-3 to 268 all out. Collapse 7/64

 

2nd test

Eng 1st inns 185-4 to 269 all out. Collapse 6/84. 

 

England v West Indies 2020

 

1st test

Eng 1st inns 204 all out

Eng 2nd inns 249-3 to 313 all out. Collapse 7/64

 

Eng v Pakistan 2020

 

1st test

Eng 1st inns 219 all out

 

India v England 2021

 

1st test

Eng 2nd inns 178 all out

 

2nd test

Eng 1st inns 134 all out 

Eng 2nd inns 164 all out 

 

3rd test

Eng 1st inns 112 all out 

Eng 2nd inns 81 all out

 

4th test

Eng 1st inns 205 all out 

Eng 2nd inns 135 all out 

 

Eng v NZ 2021

 

2nd test

Eng 2nd inns 122 all out

 

Eng v India 2021

 

1st test 

Eng 1st inns 183 all out

Eng 2nd inns 211-4 to 303 all out. Collapse 6/92

 

2nd test 

Eng 2nd inns 120 all out

 

4th test 

Eng 2 nd inns 141-2 to 210 all out. Collapse 8/69

 

I’ve not included the recent ashes debacle

Proves precisely that this recent Ashes shambles is nothing new and the knee jerk media reaction from the cricket media putting the blame on England’s county system is utter nonsense.

Historically England have been hammered pretty much everywhere overseas since the game became international.

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