Realistically, what would LJ have to do?

[RidgeRed]

I'm looking forward to the new season but with a real sense of unease that keeps surfacing. LJ gets a fresh start for me but any hint of last season's near disaster & the alarm bells will ring. That's the sense of unease I have. That the LJ Out debate will start up again although I believe he will be gone if another 5+ losing streak occurs.

I've never bought into "he's learning his trade, learning from his mistakes". That has to stop now. No excuses, shifting the blame & giggly interviews. Get on with the job in the way we expect from a football boss. He's lucky to be in the job after last season but I really hope he can show that he is the great coach, tactician etc etc we were told to expect. It's taken a while & we've suffered enough!

[downendcity]

8 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Thanks Lee

Not a problem. 

I will however continue to do my after match interviews, so can't make any promises in that respect.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, RumRed said:

1. Decide on a style of play that defines us as a team.

2. Consistency in results, preferably good ones!

3. Mid table this season please without flirting with the relegation zone at any point from 5 games in.

4. Consistency in team selections with none of this 'players I can trust' bollocks.

5. Avoid weirdness like the Engvall signing, it doesn't generate much trust in our methods amongst some of the fan base.

 

think that pretty well sums up what any of us could ask for.

[BigTone]

4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Not a problem. 

I will however continue to do my after match interviews, so can't make any promises in that respect.

I expect nothing less

[numbeast]

Just like every pre season I'm filled with hope as opposed to optimism. I am prepared to give Lee Johnson time to get things right. But in saying that I will want to see progress with, not only with our youngsters but also with the January purchases.

 

 We do have a young average age in the squad and the progress may be gradual but any player not progressing needs to be shipped out. We need to see Engval given a chance to impress and I'm sure he is a real talent. But to prove this he has to be given the opportunity. I'm in two mind with regards to Bobby Reid, can he play to Championship standard? There is no excuse with regards a lack of experience because a relegation fight should have given these youngsters plenty of experience the hard way.

 As for LJ himself, he needs to have learnt from last season and not make the same mistakes again. Yes there were plenty of examples where we should have got better results but for the referee  but that's the game and generally they balance out over the course of a season. The excuses need to be binned, when he gets it wrong he should admit he was wrong, there's no shame to honesty. This season will be telling not only for Lee but also for Steve Lansdown. Lee has to justify SL's decision not to sack him when on that dreadful run. I'm hoping last season was just the ground work for building a club that fits in with dreams of all of us, but only time will tell

[Olé]

Responsibility.

The language Johnson used last season whenever things didn't go well (and that happened a lot) routinely exhibited such a nasty, petulant streak for blaming all those around him as some sort of self-defence (at times clearly ego driven). It demonstrated a total lack of leadership and was at odds with everything I've seen and read about the game's top managers. It was no way to lead a football club and I'm afraid I don't listen to Johnson interviews any longer because of it.

As far as the football is concerned, some visible improvement on the pitch would be nice. Right from the first day of last season, on almost every aspect, I saw a team and individual players regress. There are no two ways about it. And it only improved in that final run when he left the whole thing well alone. I gather LJ has recently said that perhaps he "over coached" the team. I don't think there is a more shocking remark. So coaching inspired improvement would be nice too.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That's the way I feel 100% and surprised that there are still a fair chunk on here that won't let last season go.

For me it makes no sense to hold a grudge over a manager based on a season that's finished. You can only judge his position on the here and now.

Huddersfield fans wanted Wagner out at the end of 15/16, I wonder how they feel now. Not saying we'll get anywhere close to emulating that but the point stands that the prior season really is no reliable measure of what's to come. 

So you don't take into account 'performance to date'  ?

How bizarre

If he had got us promoted last year you would disregard that too ?

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So you don't take into account 'performance to date'  ?

How bizarre

If he had got us promoted last year you would disregard that too ?

Not like you to twist my words Bob! 

What I actually said - you quoted it - is it makes no sense to hold a grudge based on a season that's finished. 

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have doubts about whether he's the right man to take the club forwards, simply that he should have a clean slate as of now and that people should judge him here and now based on what happens here and now. 

The league table has been reset to zero. What happened last season is done and consigned to the history books. History books which will show that it was our highest league placing in six seasons.

If he has us sat in 1st after 40 games the sad fact is that there would STILL be an element who would resent the fact that he'd succeeded based on last season (or more likely based on the fact that he had the cheek to play for his Dad, but that's another debate...)

If 'performance to date' is the metric we're going for, then he has a win rate comparable with several other established Championship managers. So the hyperbole is all just a bit grating after a while.

Yes, he had an appalling run of defeats. But here's the thing - a season lasts 46 games, not 20 odd. And over 46 games we fell short of mid table - widely acknowledged as being a good outcome - by about 2 wins.

It baffles me how people can be so overly fixated over what is - in our history - a very very tiny period of time. 

Do I think he's the messiah? No, far from it. I wanted him replaced during the darkest hours of the season, but the reality is not quite the doom and gloom scenario that a few love to wallow in on here.

[RED4LIFE]

Personally, its a new season and a new start and I hope we start well and build on it as I do every season.

Can LJ/we be better than last season? Of course, as this year he doesn't have to try and bed-in 11 first team players and get results at the same time which is never an easy job. 

Don't get me wrong, he is a long way from being blameless for the shambles that occurred at times last year and come Jan/Feb I was firmly in the 'get rid' camp but we mustn't forget there was definitely extenuating circumstances that put him in that position like the threadbare squad he was left with before last summer.

I would like to think he now knows his best team and formation and has learnt from his many mistakes, but I still have a nagging doubt that some of the old mistakes will keep happening and he will roll out the same excuses and put the blame on something/someone other than himself.

It's a big season for LJ, lets hope he's up to the task for everyone's sakes.

[jayjay]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

 

Huddersfield fans wanted Wagner out at the end of 15/16, I wonder how they feel now. Not saying we'll get anywhere close to emulating that but the point stands that the prior season really is no reliable measure of what's to come. 

Absolutely right ......................... we might get relegated.

[BobBobSuperBob]

19 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Not like you to twist my words Bob! 

What I actually said - you quoted it - is it makes no sense to hold a grudge based on a season that's finished. 

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have doubts about whether he's the right man to take the club forwards, simply that he should have a clean slate as of now and that people should judge him here and now based on what happens here and now. 

The league table has been reset to zero. What happened last season is done and consigned to the history books. History books which will show that it was our highest league placing in six seasons.

If he has us sat in 1st after 40 games the sad fact is that there would STILL be an element who would resent the fact that he'd succeeded based on last season (or more likely based on the fact that he had the cheek to play for his Dad, but that's another debate...)

If 'performance to date' is the metric we're going for, then he has a win rate comparable with several other established Championship managers. So the hyperbole is all just a bit grating after a while.

Yes, he had an appalling run of defeats. But here's the thing - a season lasts 46 games, not 20 odd. And over 46 games we fell short of mid table - widely acknowledged as being a good outcome - by about 2 wins.

It baffles me how people can be so overly fixated over what is - in our history - a very very tiny period of time. 

Do I think he's the messiah? No, far from it. I wanted him replaced during the darkest hours of the season, but the reality is not quite the doom and gloom scenario that a few love to wallow in on here.

Twisting words ?

From you !!!!

LJs own Alaistair Campbell

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Twisting words ?

From you !!!!

LJs own Alaistair Campbell

And then completely ignore every perfectly valid point I make when you can't refute them.  

Standard.

[Mtimmy11]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I'll reiterate that I want us to do well... I thought that the off season might see my displeasure ebb away, but it hasn't. 

What has the world come to if I cannot get excited about a £5m striker - at little old Bristol City! I find myself unable to watch any interviews with LJ, in fact just talking about him here is making my blood pressure rise slightly. 

Never have I had such a lack of interest. And I don't like it. 

Hopefully a good start to the season might see things change. 

I don't want to turn it into a L J out thread but I can't watch his interviews either ,I even wait outside the stadium until his interview has been on the big screen .I just don't believe him

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Responsibility.

The language Johnson used last season whenever things didn't go well (and that happened a lot) routinely exhibited such a nasty, petulant streak for blaming all those around him as some sort of self-defence (at times clearly ego driven). It demonstrated a total lack of leadership and was at odds with everything I've seen and read about the game's top managers. It was no way to lead a football club and I'm afraid I don't listen to Johnson interviews any longer because of it.

As far as the football is concerned, some visible improvement on the pitch would be nice. Right from the first day of last season, on almost every aspect, I saw a team and individual players regress. There are no two ways about it. And it only improved in that final run when he left the whole thing well alone. I gather LJ has recently said that perhaps he "over coached" the team. I don't think there is a more shocking remark. So coaching inspired improvement would be nice too.

Good post.  He hasn't quite worked out that it's not down to him when we win, and player's fault when we lose.  Good leaders do it the opposite way around. 

[downendcity]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good post.  He hasn't quite worked out that it's not down to him when we win, and player's fault when we lose.  Good leaders do it the opposite way around. 

On a similar basis, some of our fans haven't worked out that that when we lose it's not always the head coaches fault and when we win the head coach might have had something to do with it. 

[Offside]

3 hours ago, RidgeRed said:

I'm looking forward to the new season but with a real sense of unease that keeps surfacing. LJ gets a fresh start for me but any hint of last season's near disaster & the alarm bells will ring. That's the sense of unease I have. That the LJ Out debate will start up again although I believe he will be gone if another 5+ losing streak occurs.

I've never bought into "he's learning his trade, learning from his mistakes". That has to stop now. No excuses, shifting the blame & giggly interviews. Get on with the job in the way we expect from a football boss. He's lucky to be in the job after last season but I really hope he can show that he is the great coach, tactician etc etc we were told to expect. It's taken a while & we've suffered enough!

This echoes my feelings - especially that sense of unease. 

For this season I hope we will not be in a position where we are spending large chunks of time worrying about relegation. There was also a lot of "odd" stuff that I hope is now in the past (singling players out for blame, the selection tombola, players being labelled as heroes one minute and frozen out the next etc). Golbourne's inclusion as I think the only senior player in the youth team that played at Torquay - which can be interpreted as a very clear and public statement from LJ about him - suggests that some of these issues might be ongoing. Having said that, I have no knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes and might reading too much into that one.

It would also be good to see a greater sense of togetherness in the squad. One of the strengths that was very apparent under Cotts was team spirit, and that seems to have been eroded somewhat. An eight game losing streak is never going to be good for morale in the dressing room, but something didn't feel quite right last season. I think I recall LJ mentioning something about factions in the squad, which can't be a good thing. Maybe Tomlin's departure will be a key factor here.

Finally, it would be great to do the double over Cardiff. We owe them a few beatings.

 

 

[samo II]

Midtable obscurity, bit of effort in the cups; just don't want to be constantly worried about dropping out of this division.  If we play like the side did last two months of the season, even if that is only enough for midtable, I'm fine with that.

And if LJ can do that while blooding some young players like Kelly (and I'm talking regular and notable game time, not token appearances) then I'll be happy to stow my concerns, and revise my opinion.

I worry that LJ has too much to learn before being able to take us forwards properly, but happy to be proven wrong.

[Lew-T]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Technically the 'one step forward, two steps back' thing isn't quite true if you look at league finishes alone. We've finished the season in a progressively higher position every season since our relegation in 2012/13.

You could argue we're are making progress, our scouting is better since then, we've shifted deadwood, we appear far more savvy in the transfer market, we've scouted some great players, we've revamped the u23s, the stadium is finished, we make more revenue off the pitch..

I know last season was tricky, but as a club we are making progress. Depends what barometer you're measuring on though.

We've struggled in this division for nearly 10 years now, of course we've been in League one for a couple of them but progress on the pitch hasn't happened imo. 

It's usually the same old optimism every summer after a few big signings but as always, flatters to deceive and we end up looking over our shoulder again. If that's down to bad management, ownership, poor quality of players etc.

We need to push on now. Especially with everything off the pitch is now in place. We need to make Bristol City Football Club an attractive football outfit, that's not happening if you're finishing in the bottom 5 every season. 

No more excuses Lee and Steve.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

We've struggled in this division for nearly 10 years now, of course we've been in League one for a couple of them but progress on the pitch hasn't happened imo. 

We're a different club now really. Football moves so fast it's only worth judging infrastructure and things by last 5 years. Back in 07 we didn't have the redeveloped AG or training facilities.. back in 07 we overachieved and then spent wages on poor players. We're in better shape now - 07/08 was an anomaly season.

6 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

It's usually the same old optimism every summer after a few big signings but as always, flatters to deceive and we end up looking over our shoulder again. If that's down to bad management, ownership, poor quality of players etc.

We need to push on now. Especially with everything off the pitch is now in place. We need to make Bristol City Football Club an attractive football outfit, that's not happening if you're finishing in the bottom 5 every season. 

No more excuses Lee and Steve.

That's what we're aiming to do. Our league finishes have improved for the last 4 seasons; that's progress no matter how you dress it up. We've got a new training ground, redeveloped AG, decent scouting.. things are falling into place.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

On a similar basis, some of our fans haven't worked out that that when we lose it's not always the head coaches fault and when we win the head coach might have had something to do with it. 

15-all 

[downendcity]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

15-all 

tie break?

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, downendcity said:

tie break?

New balls

[shelts]

8 hours ago, Chris_Brown said:

What would our Head Coach have to do to change he opinions of those of you that don't believe he can be a success? Good consistent form all season? Reach a certain position? Play a certain way? Show certain managerial skills? What does he have to do?

I'm not looking for a debate as to whether he is good enough or not as that has been done to death so please leave it out, just a genuine question as to what he would have to do to change doubters opinions of him. I am genuinely intrigued as I kind of sit on the fence where Johnson is concerned. 

Win games 

[downendcity]

Just now, Davefevs said:

New balls

No, just wearing Y fronts instead of boxers.

[stephenkibby.]

Well I so regret reading this.  I was looking forward to the new season, but now?

Maybe iv left my head in the sand but still wanted to go into the new season with some hope.

But it appears were ****** and were on a spiral that's out of control.

If it's any consolation  to most, a bad first two months and Johnson will be gone.

[BRISTOL86]

2 hours ago, shelts said:

Win games 

We won as many games last season as several well established championship clubs, and won one less than a club who were relegated from the premier league and spent £40m on strikers. 

[shelts]

8 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

We won as many games last season as several well established championship clubs, and won one less than a club who were relegated from the premier league and spent £40m on strikers. 

And your point is ?!!!

[BRISTOL86]

15 minutes ago, shelts said:

And your point is ?!!!

That 'winning games' is not exactly unfamiliar to us? We won plenty last season. We were just too easy to beat. 

[Juan Domingo Roldan]

RESIGN - IT REALLY IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT (OR HIM)

[Floatn Over]

LJ has a clean slate from me but I'll admit my nerves are a jangling !

For me he has to show that he can get unity, everyone pulling in the same direction and a style that works, something GJ did (looking back we had a cheek getting to the play-off final but we did) same under AD (a squad of no big names, Bristol lads, a few Scots etc but they would run through a brick wall for each other)

I'm just tired of remarks along the lines of "we'll learn from that result" "transition" "we'll look at that" "not quite sure what we've got with...."  I'm just worried these will be wheeled out again.

As stated earlier he has been given one heck of a lot of resources, time to prove its worth; do that and he will be backed.