Smoke

[Calculus]

2 minutes ago, finbarr_in_z said:

Can't we organise simultaneous setting light to farts? The pie & beer / zider induced flatulence at every game could be countered by instant ignition & thus elimination of the  odour.

The pyro fans would be happy, the authorities would be happy, and my nose would be happy. Everyone wins!

Wouldn't recommend it - blowback can be a serious issue...

[Mr Popodopolous]

I agree with the compromise in theory, in principle even but without a law change all such talk is meaningless unfortunately.

I've changed my views a bit too...anything that gets the club into trouble or risks doing so, even if it has positive elements, can't be a good thing, that bit I always thought. Club get in bother over it, we all suffer ultimately. So tbh, even if it has atmosphere enhancing qualities while the law is as it is, people probably shouldn't be going anywhere near this.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

This issue, like standing in seated areas and waving flags when people want to watch the game are all solved by compromise and intelligence.

You create areas for people to stand, you create areas for people to let of pyro and you have areas where flags can be waved throughout the 90 mins. These areas would probably overlap in places. 

It means that if you don't like smoke you can sit far away from it as you know where it could be. It also means you could have a responsible adult setting it off with sand buckets on standby when they have extinguished so there isn't a hot firework just in the foot well. I'd rather that than some pissed up 19 year old who will throw it as soon as it is lit to avoid prosecution. 

Have you been following any of this! Unless there is a change in the law you can't create areas to let off pyros - IT'S ILLEGAL. 

As for thousands of people having the choice to sit far away from the brain dead few who want to set off smoke bombs - where do you suggest. Are you some sort of savant who can accurately predict the direction of the wind for  each match at the beginning of the season?

[Wolf Island]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

you create areas for people to let of pyro 

Not an option. No point in discussing it.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

12 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Have you been following any of this! Unless there is a change in the law you can't create areas to let off pyros - IT'S ILLEGAL. 

As for thousands of people having the choice to sit far away from the brain dead few who want to set off smoke bombs - where do you suggest. Are you some sort of savant who can accurately predict the direction of the wind for  each match at the beginning of the season?

 

3 minutes ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

Not an option. No point in discussing it.

We discuss safe standing enough which is currently illegal for our club. I appreciate it is illegal but I'm advocating that it becomes legal but only by certain people. 

As for the wind, have you seen the massive hole in the top of AG. The only time I've ever seen smoke cross the entire pitch to the opposite side is when the army were invited down and filled the ground with smoke. 

[BCFC Jimmer]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-on-flaressmoke-bombs/ 

They use the picture that shows how awesome the smoke bombs look.  

[Monkeh]

6 minutes ago, Collis1 said:

They use the picture that shows how awesome the smoke bombs look.  

let one off Tomorrow and see what happens

[Monkeh]

27 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

 

We discuss safe standing enough which is currently illegal for our club. I appreciate it is illegal but I'm advocating that it becomes legal but only by certain people. 

As for the wind, have you seen the massive hole in the top of AG. The only time I've ever seen smoke cross the entire pitch to the opposite side is when the army were invited down and filled the ground with smoke. 

its not illegal nore has it ever been illegal to stand at a football ground, it is illegal to take pyro technics into a sports stadium

 

THE LAW ON STANDING IN ALL-SEATED GROUNDS

• Ever since the introduction of all-seater stadia, many supporters have continued to stand in front of their seats, often for the duration of the game.
• It is widely believed that this practice is illegal. This is not the case, even within Premier League and Championship grounds. The law only provides that these clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them.
• The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area’ (Source: Letter to Football Supporters’ Federation, 2008)
• Standing in seated areas, is, however, contrary to ground regulations. For example, the Football League’s model set of ground regulations states: ‘Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the ground’.
• It is notable that the two rules are contradictory, the first bars all ‘standing’, the second only ‘persistent standing’. In practice, standing to go to the toilet or snack bar and standing at ‘moments of excitement’ is permitted. The boundary between ‘moments of excitement’ and ‘persistent’ is rather grey and open to very wide interpretation.
• Dr Steve Frosdick is an independent safety expert who has worked in sports grounds across Europe for more than 20 years. He says that standing at the Cardiff City Stadium is neither illegal, nor inherently unsafe, and can be managed to suit the needs of those who prefer to sit or stand. The club agree and have since formalised this approach. Read more here.

[54-46]

I'm trying to invent one that works along the same lines as vaping devices with a little battery operated fan inside that will allow plumes of vapour to be blown into the air. Will even be able to make it fruit scented

Only problem is I'm not clever enough to make one or have enough cash. Other than that, Dragon's Den here I come. Also I don't think you can vape at AG so I may be onto a loser here 

[BCFC Jimmer]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

let one off Tomorrow and see what happens

I'm genuinely intrigued how anyone could be so unbelievably anal about something so trivial. Condemning them lightly is one thing, but the witch hunt that follows is cringe worthy. 

I can't wait till the copper comes back on here tomorrow evening and tells us off again...

 

 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Collis1 said:

I'm genuinely intrigued how anyone could be so unbelievably anal about something so trivial. Condemning them lightly is one thing, but the witch hunt that follows is cringe worthy. 

I can't wait till the copper comes back on here tomorrow evening and tells us off again...

 

 

its against the law,

I can't believe are so thick that they don't understand that

[Monkeh]

Specific Offences

Football (Offences) Act 1991

• Throwing of missiles onto the playing area or into the crowd - s.2
• Racialist or indecent chanting at a football match - s.3
• Going onto the playing area - s.4

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

• Unauthorised persons ('ticket touts') selling or otherwise disposing of a ticket to a designated football match - s.166

Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985

• Carrying alcohol in vehicles on route to designated sporting events - ss.1 and 1A
• Possession of alcohol at or upon entering a designated sporting event - s.2(1)
• Being drunk at a designated sporting event - s.2(2)
• Having a flare or firework etc. whilst entering, trying to enter or being at a designated sports ground during the period of a designated sporting event - s.2A.

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Charges

In selecting charges that adequately reflect the nature and seriousness of the offending and give the court adequate sentencing powers, prosecutors should note that:

• Where there is sufficient evidence, it would normally be preferable to charge one of the offences under more general legislation as the football-specific offences referred to above are summary only and non-imprisonable, thereby limiting the court's sentencing powers.
• Most of the offences that are likely to be charged are relevant offences for the purposes of obtaining a football banning order, but it is advisable to check the list at Annex B: Schedule of Relevant Offences before proceeding to ensure that the court is not deprived of the ability to impose such an order on conviction.

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Resulting in 

Penalties for offences.

A person guilty of an offence under this Act shall be liable on summary conviction—

(a)in the case of an offence under section 1(2) [F1or 1A(2)], to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale,

(b)in the case of an offence under section 1(3) [F2, 1A(3)], 2(1) [F3or 2A(1)], to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months or both, . . . F4

(c)in the case of an offence under section 1(4) [F5, 1A(4)] or 2(2), to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

F6(d). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

F6(e). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Up The City!]

23 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

comment from a Fulham fan:

 

I wish him all the best, but he's really not very good.

 

2 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

This issue, like standing in seated areas and waving flags when people want to watch the game are all solved by compromise and intelligence.

You create areas for people to stand, you create areas for people to let of pyro and you have areas where flags can be waved throughout the 90 mins. These areas would probably overlap in places. 

It means that if you don't like smoke you can sit far away from it as you know where it could be. It also means you could have a responsible adult setting it off with sand buckets on standby when they have extinguished so there isn't a hot firework just in the foot well. I'd rather that than some pissed up 19 year old who will throw it as soon as it is lit to avoid prosecution. 

But isnt that then excluding someone from a fun vibrant part of the ground if they have a medical condition?

[BCFC Jimmer]

8 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

its against the law,

I can't believe are so thick that they don't understand that

You miserable old toad. Grab hold of yourself please.

I know its illegal you utter buffoon. I have been reminded nearly every day this season, by over zealous nit wits who clearly have nothing better to do than stick their nose in every 5 minutes.

Have you ever smoked pot? Caught caught speeding? Not declared to pay a small bit of tax? There are literally umpteen incidents where people break the law on a daily basis. My point is that given the ills and woes we face in society, a young lad setting off a smoke bomb comes pretty low on my agenda.

Take your pitch fork and do something worthwhile thats what I say. You're coming off a bit odd!

And as for the young policewoman who comes on here nearly every day, I strongly advise her to spend her time on something more worthwhile. I'm thinking about making a complaint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Collis1 said:

You miserable old toad. Grab hold of yourself please.

I know its illegal you utter buffoon. I have been reminded nearly every day this season, by over zealous nit wits who clearly have nothing better to do than stick their nose in every 5 minutes.

Have you ever smoked pot? Caught caught speeding? Not declared to pay a small bit of tax? There are literally umpteen incidents where people break the law on a daily basis. My point is that given the ills and woes we face in society, a young lad setting off a smoke bomb comes pretty low on my agenda.

Take your pitch fork and do something worthwhile thats what I say. You're coming off a bit odd!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No i haven't done any of that,

its nothing to do with a pitch fork ether, the club have been warned the next stage after fines will be shutting parts of the ground or having its licence to hold sporting events revoked

[Welcome To The Jungle]

12 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

its not illegal nore has it ever been illegal to stand at a football ground, it is illegal to take pyro technics into a sports stadium

I said safe standing though. I'm well aware that standing is not illegal, but rail seats, at the moment, are illegal, yet we discuss them. Therefore we can argue that pyro should be allowed as well. 

 

2 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

 

But isnt that then excluding someone from a fun vibrant part of the ground if they have a medical condition?

A very good point. Not something I'd want to do. I might re-think my view slightly, or try and re-work it. 

[BCFC Jimmer]

16 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

No i haven't done any of that

Thanks for your comprehensive answer. 

Let me phrase it another way. Unless you are a Buddist monk, I would put my life savings on you having broken the law at one point in your (apparently rather boring) life. Its is frankly impossible unless you never leave your house.  This is the point and why the hypocrisy of it winds me up. @JulieH probably wouldn't even stop someone for smoking pot, or investigate tax fraud, yet she is spending her  (tax payer funded) time telling people off for setting of a smoke bomb. I find it remarkable! 

Now leave me alone. Your miserable outlook on the world is ruining my Friday!

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I said safe standing though. I'm well aware that standing is not illegal, but rail seats, at the moment, are illegal, yet we discuss them. Therefore we can argue that pyro should be allowed as well. 

 

A very good point. Not something I'd want to do. I might re-think my view slightly, or try and re-work it. 

and thats the point I've made, if you want to change the law you need to educate and show its safe, thats why the trails with safe standing have been consider and looks likey that it would happen, its with hard work from the likes of @Blagdon red and others at FSF thats starting to change the govenments mind,

Acting like cocks thinking the law doesn't apply to you doesn't, it makes things worse for everyone

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

No i haven't done any of that,

its nothing to do with a pitch fork ether, the club have been warned the next stage after fines will be shutting parts of the ground or having its licence to hold sporting events revoked

Monkeh i'm genuinely a bit perplexed as to why you in particular seem so bothered about all this.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Just now, Monkeh said:

and thats the point I've made, if you want to change the law you need to educate and show its safe, thats why the trails with safe standing have been consider and looks likey that it would happen, its with hard work from the likes of @Blagdon red and others at FSF thats starting to change the govenments mind,

Acting like cocks thinking the law doesn't apply to you doesn't, it makes things worse for everyone

Okay. I'm not taking smoke or flares into a stadium. I've never set one off anywhere or even held one. However I enjoy pyro at football, be it with City or another team. That said the idea that someone is likely to set one off and instantly try and ditch it to avoid prosecution does unnerve me and is of course a safety hazard. 

My argument is that this can be done safely and effectively producing visual stunning displays. However as @Up The City! says if it means people cannot be part of an exciting part of the ground for health reasons then I'd not want to restrict them. 

Therefore the case study should be the Pyro section at Orlando City and how successful this section is and how those will health concerns find it, or are they unable to go near it. My view since this thread began has changed, however that doesn't mean it shouldn't be something that is explored and experimented with, and perhaps the law will change. 

[Wolf Island]

33 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

its against the law,

I can't believe are so thick that they don't understand that

And it affects the health of those nearby. And it can go wrong and cause serious burns. So whether you agree with the law or not why would you bring one of these to a match unless you're a****. 

[Dave]

I wonder how noisy the singing/standing area will be when the authorities instruct the Club to shut the area down.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Dave said:

I wonder how noisy the singing/standing area will be when the authorities instruct the Club to shut the area down.

 

Not very if it didn't exist? Not sure what your point is really.

[Dave]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not very if it didn't exist? Not sure what your point is really.

Exactly,  my point is the Club has had a warning, I suspect repitition is going to be a fine, and then probably closure of all or parts of the stadium.

So anyone who contravenes this in the future is risking their own attendance and potentially the attendance of others.

Is everyone happy that the actions of a minority, will impact on their ability to stand and sing at the football?

[Sixtyseconds]

27 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Okay. I'm not taking smoke or flares into a stadium. I've never set one off anywhere or even held one. However I enjoy pyro at football, be it with City or another team. That said the idea that someone is likely to set one off and instantly try and ditch it to avoid prosecution does unnerve me and is of course a safety hazard. 

My argument is that this can be done safely and effectively producing visual stunning displays. However as @Up The City! says if it means people cannot be part of an exciting part of the ground for health reasons then I'd not want to restrict them. 

Therefore the case study should be the Pyro section at Orlando City and how successful this section is and how those will health concerns find it, or are they unable to go near it. My view since this thread began has changed, however that doesn't mean it shouldn't be something that is explored and experimented with, and perhaps the law will change. 

A BCFC that is trendsetters not bedwetters. 

[phantom]

41 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

the club have been warned the next stage after fines will be shutting parts of the ground or having its licence to hold sporting events revoked

No offence @Monkeh but that isn't true

The club have said that they MAY get a fine, NOBODY has ever had part of their ground shut or licences revoked on the back of this

[RedYoshi]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

A 'life ban' is absurd too.

Good job it doesn't say "life ban" then... 

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 minutes ago, Dave said:

Exactly,  my point is the Club has had a warning, I suspect repitition is going to be a fine, and then probably closure of all or parts of the stadium.

So anyone who contravenes this in the future is risking their own attendance and potentially the attendance of others.

Is everyone happy that the actions of a minority, will impact on their ability to stand and sing at the football?

This is the point really. What do the people doing this really think the club will do if it continues?

A lot of people put a lot of time, effort and expense into creating this area and it appears to be growing game by game and certainly adds to the atmosphere.

If there is the threat of heavy fines or worse do they really think the club will continue to allow the relaxed attitude to standing and unreserved seating in this area?

I hope the knobs who insist on doing this enjoy having to sit in their allocated seats far away from their mates after the club enforce the rules due to their selfish actions.

Still, just a bit of fun innit?

[Phileas Fogg]

21 minutes ago, Dave said:

Exactly,  my point is the Club has had a warning, I suspect repitition is going to be a fine, and then probably closure of all or parts of the stadium.

So anyone who contravenes this in the future is risking their own attendance and potentially the attendance of others.

Is everyone happy that the actions of a minority, will impact on their ability to stand and sing at the football?

Out of 3 'offences' this season, only 1 has come from that area of the ground.

[Phileas Fogg]

17 minutes ago, RedYoshi said:

Good job it doesn't say "life ban" then... 

That'll teach me not to skim read