Sparkz 76 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Right probably get shot down here but how many of these foreign players are actually paying off. Ok Kodjia was very good and this is one instance with Cotts bringing him in not LJ. Some are yet to prove theirselves as in Famara and Niclas and even Milan but is this taking us forward as a decent championship side. My question is do we sign players from the EFL or continue to persist with players that we have no idea what their talents really are as the league they play in are as good as the English championship. In my opinion our reserve players would be good in the Swedish league. I hope I'm wrong about these players and they need time to settle in to this country and this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastside Moonwalker Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 The problem is inflation in my opinion. a player that costs 2 million in say Germany will cost 8 million in the championship so in the long run you're better off buying 2 or 3 players that will add to your squad opposed to one that might flop - that way you have more to fall back on. Steve Lansdown is never going to spend 10m on Ross McCormack or even 10-15m on Jordan Rhodes so we have to do it this way - which initially is stats based as we can't have scouts in every country (hence the Gustav singing) I'd love to have a team of championship ready players but sadly a club our size can't justify it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeneys Penalties Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Ive no issues buying foreign players as long as they fit the clubs DNA... ask Arsenal. Their French recruits haven;t done too badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Established Championship British players are expensive which is why clubs like City look overseas for quality players at relatively cheap prices. Kodjia is a perfect example and City made a huge profit on the deal. Who knows if Diedoo will turn out to be as successful as Kodjia was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Robbored said: Established Championship British players are expensive which is why clubs like City look overseas for quality players at relatively cheap prices. Kodjia is a perfect example and City made a huge profit on the deal. Who knows if Diedoo will turn out to be as successful as Kodjia was? Dont you mean C.o.d.g.e.r? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Why haven't Diedhiou and Eliasson proven themselves yet!? Johnson out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Just now, cidercity1987 said: Dont you mean Kodjia? Forget that...Diedoo!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, David Brent said: Forget that...Diedoo!?!? Our Alan above has a habit of deliberately misspelling the names of foreign black players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Henry Mckop was decent..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Pisano will be a quality asset Two league games already looking a strong imposing RB and it normally takes a while to adapt from slower European leagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said: Our Alan above has a habit of deliberately misspelling the names of foreign black players. Like Hegler you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Robbored said: Like Hegler you mean? Get it right, it's Hegelar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Which ones haven't worked then? As you say - Đurić, Diedhiou and Eliasson (you forgot Pisano too) still are establishing themselves at the club. Magnússon looks like a decent signing but with work to do. Engvall - who knows; however he's only 21 and has plenty of time. Unless I'm missing someone - no foreign permanent signings under LJ have been failures.. yet. I can understand the concerns about Engvall given how the management talked him up but he needs to be given time in my opinion. You could argue the very same point about LJ's domestic signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 Until recently with Kodja, and I hope the latest crop, most (but not all) of our forays into the overseas market were poor. But as others have pointed out, if you're seeking value for money then the European leagues are inevitable. Clubs like City, playing in the championship but without pyramid payments, would be stupid to pay £8M for an Englishman when you can buy from France for half the price. Are they better than the English equivalent, in the case of some of the superstars yes, but overall the juries out for me. If you want to see lots of incredibly average foreign players look no further than the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 We need to bring in experience. One or two proven pro's would have seen us get a point at least yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 13, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 What is there to gain from trying to look educationally subnormal? Diedoo? Hegler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 13, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Which ones haven't worked then? As you say - Đurić, Diedhiou and Eliasson (you forgot Pisano too) still are establishing themselves at the club. Magnússon looks like a decent signing but with work to do. Engvall - who knows; however he's only 21 and has plenty of time. Unless I'm missing someone - no foreign permanent signings under LJ have been failures.. yet. I can understand the concerns about Engvall given how the management talked him up but he needs to be given time in my opinion. You could argue the very same point about LJ's domestic signings. The slight concern I have about the Alssvenskan is that a reserve striker who has only had minutes on the field for us is gonna end up the top scorer there. I guess you look more at their attributes and see which you think would fare well in the Championship like Johnson was saying about crossing. If Niclas' quick feet are good enough to put him in a position to cross, a dangerous area in the Swedish League is still a dangerous area in the Championship. We've then got to ensure Diedhiou is able to get on the end of it by getting him in the box, Bobby's fine for picking up knock downs but I don't see him beating too many Championship centre backs in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolcityyatton Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 10 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said: The problem is inflation in my opinion. a player that costs 2 million in say Germany will cost 8 million in the championship so in the long run you're better off buying 2 or 3 players that will add to your squad opposed to one that might flop - that way you have more to fall back on. Steve Lansdown is never going to spend 10m on Ross McCormack or even 10-15m on Jordan Rhodes so we have to do it this way - which initially is stats based as we can't have scouts in every country (hence the Gustav singing) I'd love to have a team of championship ready players but sadly a club our size can't justify it Not sure about wages but it certainly isnt always true that players based abroad have lower transfer fees than those from england. Bailey Wright cost less than Magnússon or Moore. Matty Taylor cost less than Đurić, Diedhiou or Engvall O'Dowda and Paterson cost less than Eliasson O'Neil and Brownhill were free (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 At least we have restructured our Overseas scouting this week , and made an appointment , though I've seen no announcement on the official ,site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 12 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said: The problem is inflation in my opinion. a player that costs 2 million in say Germany will cost 8 million in the championship so in the long run you're better off buying 2 or 3 players that will add to your squad opposed to one that might flop - that way you have more to fall back on. Steve Lansdown is never going to spend 10m on Ross McCormack or even 10-15m on Jordan Rhodes so we have to do it this way - which initially is stats based as we can't have scouts in every country (hence the Gustav singing) I'd love to have a team of championship ready players but sadly a club our size can't justify it He was gonna spend 9m on Andre Gray after scoring 18 championship goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, tinman85 said: We need to bring in experience. One or two proven pro's would have seen us get a point at least yesterday. Disagree. Experience at this stage, and with these players, is not the issue. Our best player, and top scorer last year? A player with no experience in men's football. The season before, our top scorer was another with no Championship experience. Equally, arguably one of our poorer performers last year, O'Neil, has a ton of experience in this league and the Premier League. Tactics change games far more than experience. Johnson went for a gung-ho tactic to push for a win, as he often does. It backfired. Eliasson coming on was a big risk, and it didn't pay off, but then again, he did create chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 The other aspect that people seem to be missing is can you imagine what it would be like if we got to the Prem without figuring out how to buy players from aboard - integrating them into our city, squad and team and ensuring they are comfortable at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 12 hours ago, Eastside Moonwalker said: The problem is inflation in my opinion. a player that costs 2 million in say Germany will cost 8 million in the championship so in the long run you're better off buying 2 or 3 players that will add to your squad opposed to one that might flop - that way you have more to fall back on. Not sure about that. German clubs aren't completely oblivious to the money and fees in this country. They're not going to sell themselves short for the sake of it. Quote Steve Lansdown is never going to spend 10m on Ross McCormack or even 10-15m on Jordan Rhodes so we have to do it this way - which initially is stats based as we can't have scouts in every country (hence the Gustav singing) I'd love to have a team of championship ready players but sadly a club our size can't justify it How does club size come into it? We could afford those sort of fees if we wanted to. We clearly are trying to be sustainable financially so they're almost self-imposed 'limitations' on the sort of players we bring in. Players with sell on value. Is there any evidence that Engvall's signing was initially stats based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastside Moonwalker Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 54 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Not sure about that. German clubs aren't completely oblivious to the money and fees in this country. They're not going to sell themselves short for the sake of it. How does club size come into it? We could afford those sort of fees if we wanted to. We clearly are trying to be sustainable financially so they're almost self-imposed 'limitations' on the sort of players we bring in. Players with sell on value. Is there any evidence that Engvall's signing was initially stats based? Germany was an example, France is probably a lot more relevant to us (and moreso Sweden). Although German zweite Liga teams like Union Berlin, Gruether Furth, Darmstadt and Braunschweig have sold players for cheap who are on a lot less to teams on the up (Norwich and Huddersfield etc) . The other problem is that the German zweite liga (and to some extents although not so much the Bundesliga) get no where near the funding of the premier league, so when a player has a purple patch or has been progressing well over 2-3 years the fee for that player is much more realistically going to be 4-5m max opposed to 8-9 in the championship or even 15-20 in the premier league. The club size is just showing that 1, we don't have the pulling power to be bringing these players in so it's not really realistic in the first place as we've seen with Gayle and Grey turning us down in recent seasons and 2, we can't justify spending 20-30 million every transfer window like other clubs who have had premier league money OR trigger happy owners (Villa, Boro,Shef Weds) because it's a very risky move that could end us up in a similar position to where teams like Portsmouth and Coventry are now. The more expensive the player, naturally, the more expensive the wages you're going to be paying them which agrees with the self imposed limitations you mentioned. Although in regards to the Engvall comment - I think I got the 2 confused, I believe LJ mentioned Eliasson was stats based and then they tracked him. Although I for one can't imagine city have scouts in Sweden throughout the season so it would be natural to assume that the stats were looked at prior to the scouting for Gustav as well (as he had a pretty decent scoring record for Goeteberg at the time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 13 hours ago, Super said: Henry Mckop was decent..... That's Henry F'ckop . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Quote The club size is just showing that 1, we don't have the pulling power to be bringing these players in so it's not really realistic in the first place as we've seen with Gayle and Grey turning us down in recent seasons Grey and Maguire were all but signed. The board moved the goalposts and their own clubs lost patience. Their agents realised they could go to better clubs and the rest is history. If our bored hadn't interfered; we'd have got Grey and Maguire. Gayle was different and a very ambitious target. It's not really about 'pulling power' or club size though; it's about the wages we're prepared to pay. If we'd offered Dwight Gayle 30k per week i'm sure he'd have signed. Quote and 2, we can't justify spending 20-30 million every transfer window like other clubs who have had premier league money OR trigger happy owners (Villa, Boro,Shef Weds) because it's a very risky move that could end us up in a similar position to where teams like Portsmouth and Coventry are now. The more expensive the player, naturally, the more expensive the wages you're going to be paying them which agrees with the self imposed limitations you mentioned. We are in a pretty unique position for clubs that haven't been in the prem in that we've got a genuinely very wealthy owner. If we wanted to we could pay 20-30 per window but we're clearly trying to be sustainable. It's not really a 'risky move' unless Lansdown randomly left. I think our wage structure is again about sustainability, not whether we can afford or not. There are plenty of ways to get around FFP and I think it's right we don't pay totally inordinate wages. Quote Although in regards to the Engvall comment - I think I got the 2 confused, I believe LJ mentioned Eliasson was stats based and then they tracked him. Although I for one can't imagine city have scouts in Sweden throughout the season so it would be natural to assume that the stats were looked at prior to the scouting for Gustav as well (as he had a pretty decent scoring record for Goeteberg at the time) We probably have freelance scouts that submit reports to a number of teams and pay them commission. I think it's plausible we were alerted to Engvall by one of these and tracked him further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 How do you know this re Maguire and Grey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, tinman85 said: How do you know this re Maguire and Grey? Worst kept secret about that summer window. All the credible posters with inside knowledge on here have the same story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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