Eni Aluko / Mark Sampson (Merged)

[Stortz]

15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

This makes no sense. She has more of a financial incentive to keep it quiet. 

I think you're in entirely the wrong place to talk any sense about this, sadly.

Incredible how many people can read Sampson's and Aluko's mind from afar though- it's almost as if some sort of prejudice is at work isn't it...

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, BigTone said:

How so ?  Did she take the original payment ?

She did. And, with a confidentiality agreement signed, it is not in her interests for it to come out as it would risk her losing the confidentiality money. Financially her interests were best served by taking the £80k and saying nothing. 

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

 

 

I would imagine most people of whatever colour, creed or race would have taken the throw away comment as a little inappropriate and nothing else without going down some formal complaint process. Her comments in the guardian article suggests she can give and take comments/jokes and is not sensitive or precious...........

"I’ve been at Chelsea five years and been the butt of many jokes. And I give it back sometimes. That is the beauty of team spirit in a healthy dressing room. I’m not a sensitive, precious person. I’ve been in the [England] team for 11 years, I’ve been through ups and downs. I’ve played for boys’ teams. I’ve played for Chelsea, at the top level, and I’ve been dropped by Chelsea before but I can recognise something toxic when I see it".

Sounds to me like she is the one with a personal vendetta, taking a comment and calling it "toxic" and, being a lawyer, no doubt knew she could get some mileage by using the old race card......as I say, she knew what she was doing. 

I know I'm aping what someone has said above but I'm a bit confused as to your ability to read her state of mind and how confident you are in understanding the thought process of someone you have never met. 

[BigTone]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

She did. And, with a confidentiality agreement signed, it is not in her interests for it to come out as it would risk her losing the confidentiality money. Financially her interests were best served by taking the £80k and saying nothing. 

Then why hasn't she done that ?  She has the £80k and frankly blind Ediie can see she is looking for something more. What is so difficult here ?  This is someone now consumed with a grudge combined with greed. Let it rest, you have £80k, move on and forget.

[RaspberryRed]

1 hour ago, alexukhc said:

It's borderline, it's like saying to a gay person, sorry I can't talk to you I don't want to catch aids. It's stupid and naive, you'd expect better from your boss.

If my boss said anything like the above to a peer. Not only would I instigate a formal complaint I would expect action from their boss. I would also struggle with our working relationship. It's totally homophobic and ignorant as oposed to stupid and naive

[RedRaw]

16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I know I'm aping what someone has said above but I'm a bit confused as to your ability to read her state of mind and how confident you are in understanding the thought process of someone you have never met. 

What an odd comment.......I am only doing what everyone on this thread is doing including your good self.........taking the information that has been published and making our own minds up.

You appear to be satisfied with her side of the story, I tend to think she is manipulating the situation for her own gains and some form of 'retribution' against Sampson who could possibly lose his job based on a nothing comment. This after she has already received a more than generous pay out......but hey, what do I know......I'm no lawyer

[Sir Colby-Tit]

20 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I know I'm aping what someone has said above but I'm a bit confused as to your ability to read her state of mind and how confident you are in understanding the thought process of someone you have never met. 

Are you not guilty of doing exactly the same, but drawing a different conclusion? 

[shelts]

Thought he didn't say it and has been proven not guilty 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

38 minutes ago, MarkRed! said:

Because we live in a politically correct society where anyone who takes offence (however minor) responds either with a claim of harassment or discrimination in order to secure attention.  It actually impacts on those who are really prejudiced against. This player is clearly playing the "race" card because she has been dropped by Sampson and this is her way or attempt to damage his reputation and career. Nasty stuff.  

Here we go again.  'Politically correct'.  'Playing the race card'.  Anything to imply that discrimination doesn't exist.  It was exactly the same after Gareth Thomas's recent programme about gay footballers.

Look, the woman clearly feels she was discriminated against and if she was, then she is entitled to say so.  Why are people so keen to jump on black people who claim to have been victim of racism?

A suggestion that all people from her country are likely to have ebola would be a clear case of racial stereotyping.  That is exactly what racism is.

 

'

[spudski]

39 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

Yay. Another forum for (largely) white men to tell black people what they can and can't find offensive. Goody. It's free speech you know?

If we assume that MS did say what is reported (as the OP seems to have done), at best Sampsons remarks to Aluko were grossly insensitive and ignorant (Ebola, which didn't significantly effect Nigeria, killed thousands of people), at worst it was straight up racism. His remarks to the unnamed mixed-race player are racial profiling. Look it up, people don't like it

Some people seem to insist that 'the race card' is being played unless they see a body swinging from a tree surrounded my men in pointy white hats. Racism takes many forms

Yes...it is free speech. And I find her comments 'offensive'...is that ok with you? It swings both ways.

If Sampson is racist and said it with prejudice and hate, then of course it would be wrong.

If he said it as a joke, with no thought, with no hatred, malice or prejudice, then it's unprofessional at most.

Are you no longer able to joke with people these days...without having to look at their skin colour? Why can you not just see them as people...and joke accordingly.

As soon as you see skin colour, then imo, that becomes a problem.

Surely we are all aiming to see one another as the same...without colour in our eyes?

If this was said to a White Nigerian about her family...would there be a fuss? No.

There is no mention of race in his comment.

I find it offensive and disgusting when any race uses the race card. Regardless of colour. It's just sick and below the belt.

This kind of insinuation does nothing but harm the whole ethos of kicking racism in to touch.

[BigTone]

15 minutes ago, RaspberryRed said:

If my boss said anything like the above to a peer. Not only would I instigate a formal complaint I would expect action from their boss. I would also struggle with our working relationship. It's totally homophobic and ignorant as oposed to stupid and naive

Surely talking to a pier (Clevedon or WSM) is not quite the same but just a sign of being a tad odd.

[BigTone]

6 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

 

Look, the woman clearly feels she was discriminated against and if she was, then she is entitled to say so. 

 

 

'

Because she has taken her £80k compensation to settle her case and should now move on.  Why oh why is it now an issue again ? It is no longer to do with racism or discrimination but all to do with greed.

[BCFC Jimmer]

58 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

Yay. Another forum for (largely) white men to tell black people what they can and can't find offensive. Goody. It's free speech you know?

If we assume that MS did say what is reported (as the OP seems to have done), at best Sampsons remarks to Aluko were grossly insensitive and ignorant (Ebola, which didn't significantly effect Nigeria, killed thousands of people), at worst it was straight up racism. His remarks to the unnamed mixed-race player are racial profiling. Look it up, people don't like it

Some people seem to insist that 'the race card' is being played unless they see a body swinging from a tree surrounded my men in pointy white hats. Racism takes many forms

Thank you providing one of the only thoughtful and intelligent posts I have seen on Otib for about 2 years. You have made my day.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, alexukhc said:

It's borderline, it's like saying to a gay person, sorry I can't talk to you I don't want to catch aids. It's stupid and naive, you'd expect better from your boss.

 

1 hour ago, Collis1 said:

That's borderline? If I heard my boss making a comment like that I would report him immediately.

Let's put it into context, at the time there was a REAL threat of Ebola spreading around the world and the WHO were talking about blocking people travelling around the world, and especially those people travelling from areas with largely affected numbers

[BigTone]

Looking at this thread is really quite interesting. My family all come from around Penge and are nearly all Palace fans (I am the intelligent exception).  If we could take £80k for every inappropriate comment made to us by Millwall fans about our parentage then I would be richer than Bill Gates. Not racist I grant you but certainly the same principle.

[Sir Leigh of Somerset]

I knew very little about this case until this morning when the lady in question was interviewed on BBC Breakfast News following a bit of a build-up.

I sat watching the interview intently, wondering just what had caused yet another accusation of racism in sport ...... and then the explanation came out .... followed by a tearful moment.

I shook my head very sadly at being reminded, yet again, of just how far and how fast this country has sunk when it comes to the application of common sense to any situation.

Here's my summary;

Fading sports star with no sense of humour or proportion whatsoever suffers inappropriate jibe and, rather than responding in kind at the time, decides to play the usual unchallengeable race card and get her 15 minutes of fame.

We're all doomed, I tell 'ee. 

[Sir Colby-Tit]

1 hour ago, chipdawg said:

Yay. Another forum for (largely) white men to tell black people what they can and can't find offensive. Goody. It's free speech you know?

 

So, it's acceptable for you to stereotype white men? 

[chipdawg]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes...it is free speech. And I find her comments 'offensive'...is that ok with you? It swings both ways.

If Sampson is racist and said it with prejudice and hate, then of course it would be wrong.

If he said it as a joke, with no thought, with no hatred, malice or prejudice, then it's unprofessional at most.

Are you no longer able to joke with people these days...without having to look at their skin colour? Why can you not just see them as people...and joke accordingly.

As soon as you see skin colour, then imo, that becomes a problem.

Surely we are all aiming to see one another as the same...without colour in our eyes?

If this was said to a White Nigerian about her family...would there be a fuss? No.

There is no mention of race in his comment.

I find it offensive and disgusting when any race uses the race card. Regardless of colour. It's just sick and below the belt.

This kind of insinuation does nothing but harm the whole ethos of kicking racism in to touch.

Why would you find her comments offensive? They weren't about you in any way

As I said, racism comes in many forms. By your reckoning the racist jokes of a Jim Davidson or Jethro are entirely acceptable and we should all stop getting our knickers in a twist. 

Just to break it down for you, making an Ebola joke to a black African is a) insensitive since it killed thousands of black Africans and b) racist because she's Nigerian and Ebola affected Sierra Leone and Liberia and implies that they're "all the same". Whether Sampson meant it in that context is irrelevant. 

People don't seem to get that context is essential in considering racism. If Aluko had been here just 40 years ago (certainly within the memories of many posters on here), she'd have been barred from many pubs, a lot of people wouldn't have rented her a flat and she'd probably have found it difficult to become a qualified solicitor. So for her white boss to make a joke which, on any level, reflects on her race is unacceptable. And it's certainly not for white blokes on the internet to decide whether or not it is. Free Speech is not the right to say whatever you want, it's about the right to express views which can be debated and moderated by society. The view that what Sampson said (if we continue to accept that he said it) is acceptable is not one that's accepted by British society. If you don't accept that, find a society which agrees or work to change that societal view

I should add that while the investigation appears to be significantly flawed, Sampson has been proven guilty of nothing and if Aluko really had the courage of her convictions she shouldn't have accepted the £80k pay out, but I continue to disagree with your assertion that the comments as stated are not racist

[BigTone]

6 minutes ago, Collis1 said:

Thank you providing one of the only thoughtful and intelligent posts I have seen on Otib for about 2 years. You have made my day.

Collis, you know me from threads in the past and I hope you would agree that I am no way racist. I have stood up for you and your principles on many occasions because I believe that they have been misunderstood and misconstrued in a totally inappropriate manner.  This issue isn't race related at all but is fuelled by greed and nothing less. Compensation was offered, accepted and paid. End of issue in my mind so why rake over old coals unless you want something more.

[Luxo Jr.]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes...it is free speech. And I find her comments 'offensive'...is that ok with you? It swings both ways.

If Sampson is racist and said it with prejudice and hate, then of course it would be wrong.

If he said it as a joke, with no thought, with no hatred, malice or prejudice, then it's unprofessional at most.

Are you no longer able to joke with people these days...without having to look at their skin colour? Why can you not just see them as people...and joke accordingly.

As soon as you see skin colour, then imo, that becomes a problem.

Surely we are all aiming to see one another as the same...without colour in our eyes?

If this was said to a White Nigerian about her family...would there be a fuss? No.

There is no mention of race in his comment.

I find it offensive and disgusting when any race uses the race card. Regardless of colour. It's just sick and below the belt.

This kind of insinuation does nothing but harm the whole ethos of kicking racism in to touch.

It's definitely not the same thing. The whole reason why racism is so disgusting is that it's discrimination based on things nobody can choose. 

Her comments were in response to something someone chose to say (allegedly) directly to her - he could choose to keep it to himself if he wished. In its very basic detail, there's very little similarity to your taking of offence and hers. And even if you don't believe it's a comment is racist or should be considered offensive, that's not your decision to make.

[LondonBristolian]

30 minutes ago, Sir Colby-Tit said:

Are you not guilty of doing exactly the same, but drawing a different conclusion? 

I'm curious to know what conclusions you think I have drawn?

[chipdawg]

2 minutes ago, Sir Colby-Tit said:

So, it's acceptable for you to stereotype white men? 

How am I stereotyping white men? I'm stereotyping the users of this forum, though with the caveat of 'largely'

As a white male myself, I feel suitably qualified to make all manner of assumptions about myself

[Bianconeri]

1 hour ago, chipdawg said:

Yay. Another forum for (largely) white men to tell black people what they can and can't find offensive. Goody. It's free speech you know?

I find your uniformed sterotyping deeply offensive.

[Sir Colby-Tit]

5 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

How am I stereotyping white men? I'm stereotyping the users of this forum, though with the caveat of 'largely'

As a white male myself, I feel suitably qualified to make all manner of assumptions about myself

You're making assumptions based on skin colour, seems a bit racist. 

[chipdawg]

3 minutes ago, Bianconeri said:

I find your uniformed sterotyping deeply offensive.

I didn't mean it with any malice though so it's fine

[RedRaw]

12 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

I should add that while the investigation appears to be significantly flawed, Sampson has been proven guilty of nothing and if Aluko really had the courage of her convictions she shouldn't have accepted the £80k pay out, but I continue to disagree with your assertion that the comments as stated are not racist

So what you're suggesting is that she blew the unproven 'race' argument and her moral stance out the water in pursuit of the money......hmmm, interesting 

[Luxo Jr.]

I'm interested to know: how many of the people on here angered by this would have had the same level of complaint if there was no money involved whatsoever?

If she'd just publicly complained about the comment and not taken the offered money, would people still be as vitriolic?

I'd like to think that, if that were the case, people would at least say "Well it was a stupid comment, even if I don't find it offensive".

[Red Army 75]

https://mobile.twitter.com/danroan/status/899880965039767552/video/1

. Here's the video. 

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

Why would you find her comments offensive? They weren't about you in any way

As I said, racism comes in many forms. By your reckoning the racist jokes of a Jim Davidson or Jethro are entirely acceptable and we should all stop getting our knickers in a twist. 

Just to break it down for you, making an Ebola joke to a black African is a) insensitive since it killed thousands of black Africans and b) racist because she's Nigerian and Ebola affected Sierra Leone and Liberia and implies that they're "all the same". Whether Sampson meant it in that context is irrelevant. 

People don't seem to get that context is essential in considering racism. If Aluko had been here just 40 years ago (certainly within the memories of many posters on here), she'd have been barred from many pubs, a lot of people wouldn't have rented her a flat and she'd probably have found it difficult to become a qualified solicitor. So for her white boss to make a joke which, on any level, reflects on her race is unacceptable. And it's certainly not for white blokes on the internet to decide whether or not it is. Free Speech is not the right to say whatever you want, it's about the right to express views which can be debated and moderated by society. The view that what Sampson said (if we continue to accept that he said it) is acceptable is not one that's accepted by British society. If you don't accept that, find a society which agrees or work to change that societal view

I should add that while the investigation appears to be significantly flawed, Sampson has been proven guilty of nothing and if Aluko really had the courage of her convictions she shouldn't have accepted the £80k pay out, but I continue to disagree with your assertion that the comments as stated are not racist

I find her comments 'offensive' because they have an effect on how racism is perceived in this country. It affects everyone.

I don't find Jim Davidson or Jethro funny...however...the law of the land find them entirely acceptable, as they wouldn't be able to perform their stand up, and you or me have the choice to pay our £30 and sit and laugh at them.

How ironic and hypocritical that they can make a career out of such comments...yet if you or me said it in the street, we'd be had up for Racial hatred. It's complete bollox.

I don't agree with what she said...I could be black, white, or any colour...it doesn't matter. What she has implied is wrong.

What Sampson said is obviously excepted by British society and law...how else would comics like you mention make a living out of saying such things? Because they say it in joke form...not hatred. However distasteful.

Racism is about hatred...not about having a joke with no malice or hatred in your heart.

 

[chipdawg]

1 minute ago, Sir Colby-Tit said:

You're making assumptions based on skin colour, seems a bit racist. 

I'm not. I'm making assumptions on the ethnic make up of Internet forum users. Though I don't think OTIB asks for such details on sign up, so I suspect it will always be an unproven assumption. My deepest apologies if any offence has been caused.