Cowshed Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, BigTone said: I'm sure it does but has zero relevance to what we are talking about here. Cycling is beneficial and should be encouraged. A poster raised a point in the thread about the benefits of cycling, the economy and health in opposition to your view. I'm sure it does ... Appears to agree with that view. It was relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cowshed said: I'm sure it does ... Appears to agree with that view. Cycling is beneficial and should be encouraged. A poster raised a point in the thread about the benefits of cycling, the economy and health in opposition to your view. It is relevant. How is it relevant to insurance ? Have you read my original post ? Did I question the health benefits of riding a bike ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, BigTone said: How is it relevant to insurance ? The poster made a parallel with other Countries and insurance discouraging cycling rates ands being impractical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The poster made a parallel with other Countries and insurance discouraging cycling rates ands being impractical. I'll take that as a don't know and 2 no's to my questions then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, BigTone said: I'll take that as a don't know and 2 no's to my questions then. You need to read the posters post again. He/she made a factual point. Your view if reality would have a negative impact on society and its health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Cowshed said: You need to read the posters post again. He/she made a factual point. Your view if reality would have a negative impact on society and its health. The other poster can post what he / she likes. Please can you explain to me how having compulsory insurance on cyclists can have an impact on society and it's health ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 13/09/2017 at 18:54, BigTone said: Ok, so it's agreed that the roads are funded from the general tax pot which our income tax etc covers. It is also agreed that VED paid by vehicle owners also goes in this pot. It would therefore be reasonable to say that vehicle owners are paying more for the upkeep of our roads. no I am paying my share for doing more damage to the environment and causing congestion etc. happy to pay it. fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: no I am paying my share for doing more damage to the environment and causing congestion etc. happy to pay it. fair. Fair enough. I too would be damaging the environment if riding a bike the day after a good Indian curry. As for congestion, that rarely happens to me after said curry but the exact opposite hence the reason I wear bicycle clips ! Thinking again I wouldn't even need to be on my bike to pollute the atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 18 hours ago, BigTone said: I'm sure it does but has zero relevance to what we are talking about here. I am, however, glad to hear that Charlie Alliston was participating in good cardio vascular activity when he hit and killed a pedestrian whilst riding an unroadworthy bike.. And now jailed for 18 months. At least he has a healthy heart and won't put the prison hospital under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, BigTone said: And now jailed for 18 months. At least he has a healthy heart and won't put the prison hospital under pressure. he should of been locked up for longer, horrible person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: he should of been locked up for longer, horrible person Indeed he should and indeed he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 22 hours ago, BigTone said: The poster can post what he / she likes. Please can you explain to me how having compulsory insurance on cyclists can have an impact on society and it's health ? Using precedence in other nations it would be reasonable to surmise that your desire would lead to less participation in cycling. This would logically increase sedentary lifestyles and associated health risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Using precedence in other nations it would be reasonable to surmise that your desire would lead to less participation in cycling. This would logically increase sedentary lifestyles and associated health risks. And that is a complete load of bollox not even associated with this thread. READ THE ORIGINAL POST !!!! I honestly cannot understand how someone can continually miss the point of what is being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkymatt Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 Can't believe I'm using my first post in the forum in ages commenting on this thread but here goes! i regularly cycle, 20 mile commute, since I stopped driving so much the benefits have been huge (more beer and cake) but I hate it when ALL cyclist get tarred with the same brush. i always respect the rules and hate it when I see cyclists flount them, if I have to ride on a pavement because it's safer I slow right down and give way to pedestrians. We're not all A holes honest! Ps I once chased a cyclist (when on my bike) and had a go at him for not stopping at a zebra crossing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, BigTone said: And that is a complete load of bollox not even associated with this thread. READ THE ORIGINAL POST !!!! I honestly cannot understand how someone can continually miss the point of what is being discussed. People are providing answers and explanation to a question in your opening post. Your view becoming reality would lead to less people, cycling. I agree with WTTJ. My view is the opposite. I want to see more people cycling, not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 11 hours ago, Cowshed said: My view is the opposite. I want to see more people cycling, not less. Fine, but at least be responsible and take out insurance like others on this thread have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Cowshed said: People are providing answers and explanation to a question in your opening post. Your view becoming reality would lead to less people, cycling. I agree with WTTJ. My view is the opposite. I want to see more people cycling, not less. more people cycling is fine, its the ones that don't know or obey the laws of the road and that land, the ones that cycle full speed at you on a pavement forcing you to jump out of the way or get hit (which happened to me and it was some how my fault for not getting out of the way on the ******* pavement), The ones that don't think traffic lights apply to them, The ones that cycle on the road next to the ******* cycle lane! the ones that cycle in a lorrys blind spot then have ago when the lorry doesnt see them If the minority weren't such asshats and elitist ***** then there wouldn't be a problem and cyclists wouldn't have a bad name with not only other road users but the vast majority of pedestrians as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, BigTone said: Fine, but at least be responsible and take out insurance like others on this thread have. why do want to see less people cycling? is it cycling in general you do not like? why would insurance make cyclists more responsible? lot of road ragers out there who are insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 15 minutes ago, Monkeh said: The ones that cycle full speed at you on a pavement forcing you to jump out of the way cant see how anybody would get up to full speed on the pavement as it would be difficult to get through the gears to get there let alone at you. full speed is about 40 - 45 mph with twenty one gears. never seen anyone do that on a pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: cant see how anybody would get up to full speed on the pavement as it would be difficult to get through the gears to get there let alone at you. full speed is about 40 - 45 mph with twenty one gears. never seen anyone do that on a pavement. Then spend some time in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 53 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: why do want to see less people cycling? is it cycling in general you do not like? why would insurance make cyclists more responsible? lot of road ragers out there who are insured. I don't want to see less people cycling and never on this thread have I said so. I want to see cyclists insured like other vehicles to cover any injury or loss they may cause others in the event of an accident. Very simple concept really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 34 minutes ago, BigTone said: I don't want to see less people cycling and never on this thread have I said so. I want to see cyclists insured like other vehicles to cover any injury or loss they may cause others in the event of an accident. Very simple concept really. how will that work? how will it not lead to less cycling? why would people on bikes become more responsible cyclists when it clearly does not work for drivers? why do no government have this in place by law? what are they missing? people on bikes quite obviously can still be prosecuted without insurance. heres the thing when you cycle you learn responsibility because unlike drivers you cannot have accidents because you will get seriously injured or worse the same cant be said about many people driving. isn't that about scales where drivers regularly can cause massive damage easily and apart from the extreme of the extreme cases cyclists wont? ive never caused an accident on my bike however what the cyclists on here say about drivers targeting cyclists is real. but that's the world sadly. that is cycling. I don't want to see drivers having more laws because a tiny number target cyclists and are very dangerous. it does come across that it is cycling you do not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 36 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: how will that work? how will it not lead to less cycling? why would people on bikes become more responsible cyclists when it clearly does not work for drivers? why do no government have this in place by law? what are they missing? people on bikes quite obviously can still be prosecuted without insurance. heres the thing when you cycle you learn responsibility because unlike drivers you cannot have accidents because you will get seriously injured or worse the same cant be said about many people driving. isn't that about scales where drivers regularly can cause massive damage easily and apart from the extreme of the extreme cases cyclists wont? ive never caused an accident on my bike however what the cyclists on here say about drivers targeting cyclists is real. but that's the world sadly. that is cycling. I don't want to see drivers having more laws because a tiny number target cyclists and are very dangerous. it does come across that it is cycling you do not like. It will work in the same way insurance works for those cyclists who already have taken cover. Why will it lead to fewer cyclists ? Why does it not work for drivers ? I believe that you will soon see the government put something into law. Strangely in my life I have learnt to ride a bike and have even owned one or two. I can honestly say I have never felt targeted by any driver at any time. Even stranger is that I am in the process of buying a new one and will take out an insurance cover on same. Again a very simple process. Also when I ride a bike I ride the correct way down a one way street, obey red lights and certainly do not ride on a pavement. Why is it people are turning this into "everybody hates us cyclists" or worse still "we are helping the NHS by riding our bikes". Both are bizarre and in no way relevant to my original questions which were asked after recent events in London and also my own experience of seeing an innocent pedestrian being seriously injured by a cyclist riding the wrong way down a one way street. To save you scrolling back through the pages here is my original post: Ok given the media coverage of that guy Charlie Alliston who killed a pedestrian while riding a bike with no brakes, I ask this question: Should cyclists be required to take a test for a license, tax their bikes, MOT their bikes and have insurance in the same way that a vehicle driver must ? Given my own experience of cyclists I have to answer with a very large YES. One way streets are exactly that. Red lights are exactly that. Pavements are exactly that. Why is it different if you ride a bike ? Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 BT to provide a little more balance, and end the cyclic posting look at the factual experiences of other Countries which have explored what you propose. It did lead to less cycling participation and was not pragmatic to enforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 51 minutes ago, BigTone said: It will work in the same way insurance works for those cyclists who already have taken cover. Why will it lead to fewer cyclists ? Why does it not work for drivers ? I believe that you will soon see the government put something into law. Strangely in my life I have learnt to ride a bike and have even owned one or two. I can honestly say I have never felt targeted by any driver at any time. Even stranger is that I am in the process of buying a new one and will take out an insurance cover on same. Again a very simple process. Also when I ride a bike I ride the correct way down a one way street, obey red lights and certainly do not ride on a pavement. Why is it people are turning this into "everybody hates us cyclists" or worse still "we are helping the NHS by riding our bikes". Both are bizarre and in no way relevant to my original questions which were asked after recent events in London and also my own experience of seeing an innocent pedestrian being seriously injured by a cyclist riding the wrong way down a one way street. To save you scrolling back through the pages here is my original post: Ok given the media coverage of that guy Charlie Alliston who killed a pedestrian while riding a bike with no brakes, I ask this question: Should cyclists be required to take a test for a license, tax their bikes, MOT their bikes and have insurance in the same way that a vehicle driver must ? Given my own experience of cyclists I have to answer with a very large YES. One way streets are exactly that. Red lights are exactly that. Pavements are exactly that. Why is it different if you ride a bike ? Rant over. because they are saving the planet, screw the pedestrians who get in the way and injured by those selfish lady gardens, thats why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 25 minutes ago, Cowshed said: BT to provide a little more balance, and end the cyclic posting look at the factual experiences of other Countries which have explored what you propose. It did lead to less cycling participation and was not pragmatic to enforce. But where is the proof ? If no one has implemented the idea how does anyone know this as fact. Remember exploring is a bit different from actually doing. In saying that it is also a good idea to do your homework on bike law in other countries before making such a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, BigTone said: But where is the proof ? If no one has implemented the idea how does anyone know this as fact. Remember exploring is a big difference from actually doing. Last post. Look it up. Post 117 is not a lie. Personally I would like to see massive investment in cycling infra structure/public transport which would provide vulnerable cyclists and pedestrians with far more protection, ease congestion and move the UK away from its ridiculously high car usage rates, low cycling rates and work towards improving high obesity levels. People in this Country are shamefully unfit. Its a pipe dream until attitudes move away from my car and only my car first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Last post. Look it up. Post 117 is not a lie. Personally I would like to see massive investment in cycling infra structure/public transport which would provide vulnerable cyclists and pedestrians with far more protection, ease congestion and move the UK away from its ridiculously high car usage rates, low cycling rates and work towards improving high obesity levels. People in this Country are shamefully unfit. Its a pipe dream until attitudes move away from my car and only my car first. Obesity has no relevance to this discussion. How can you continually miss the point ? Bikes are required to be registered in USA by the way (ID plate etc). In NSW in Australia cyclists over 18 must always carry approved photo ID. Good idea to do your own research. Not saying post 117 is a lie but factually inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 43 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Last post. Look it up. Post 117 is not a lie. Personally I would like to see massive investment in cycling infra structure/public transport which would provide vulnerable cyclists and pedestrians with far more protection, ease congestion and move the UK away from its ridiculously high car usage rates, low cycling rates and work towards improving high obesity levels. People in this Country are shamefully unfit. Its a pipe dream until attitudes move away from my car and only my car first. In New Zealand: Cyclist skills training Learning to ride a bicycle takes lots of practice so you should consider taking a course. Courses vary and cover a range of skills depending on who they are designed for. If you are interested in taking a course, contact your local council, bike club or bike shop to find a local training provider. The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), Bike NZ and CAN have recently developed national guidelines for cyclist skills training. The training is separated into three grades of learning. Grade 1 - Beginner: Skills for full cycle control in non-traffic environments. Grade 2 - Intermediate: Skills to cycle in a variety of traffic environments. Grade 3 - Advanced: Skills to cycle confidently in all traffic environments. Grade 1 - Beginner If you are a beginner cyclist, learn to cycle in a safe place off the road. Beginners need to learn about their bicycle and how to control it. You should learn to: do a bicycle check do a helmet check understand the legal requirements and safety equipment for bicycles get on and off the bicycle without help start off and pedal without help stop quickly and with control steer the bicycle and manoeuvre safely to avoid objects look behind signal (stop, left, right) use the gears. Grade 2 - Intermediate Grade 2 cyclists need to learn skills to ride safely in a variety of traffic situations. Practice needs to take place on quiet roads. You should learn to: do all of the grade 1 skills understand road signs and the road rules start from the side of the road (kerb) stop on the side of the road (kerb) ride along the road pass a parked or slower moving vehicle travel straight through controlled and uncontrolled intersections turn left - at controlled and uncontrolled intersections turn right - at controlled and uncontrolled intersections use cycle lanes (optional) use shared paths (optional) ride through single lane roundabouts (optional) ride through traffic signals (optional). Grade 3 - Advanced Grade 3 cyclists need to learn to ride safely in all traffic situations. Practice in a variety of traffic situations. You should learn to: do all of the grade 1 and 2 skills use multi-laned roundabouts use intersections with traffic signals turn in and out of multi-laned roads overtake to the start of the queue recognise hazards and be an assertive, but also safe and confident cyclist share the road with other users ride in high-speed traffic environments (rural) do hook turns (optional) ride in groups (optional). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 44 minutes ago, BigTone said: Obesity has no relevance to this discussion. How can you continually miss the point ? Bikes are required to be registered in USA by the way (ID plate etc). In NSW in Australia cyclists over 18 must always carry approved photo ID. Good idea to do your own research. Not saying post 117 is a lie but factually inaccurate. 2 hours ago, BigTone said: It will work in the same way insurance works for those cyclists who already have taken cover. Why will it lead to fewer cyclists ? Why does it not work for drivers ? I believe that you will soon see the government put something into law. Strangely in my life I have learnt to ride a bike and have even owned one or two. I can honestly say I have never felt targeted by any driver at any time. Even stranger is that I am in the process of buying a new one and will take out an insurance cover on same. Again a very simple process. Also when I ride a bike I ride the correct way down a one way street, obey red lights and certainly do not ride on a pavement. Why is it people are turning this into "everybody hates us cyclists" or worse still "we are helping the NHS by riding our bikes". Both are bizarre and in no way relevant to my original questions which were asked after recent events in London and also my own experience of seeing an innocent pedestrian being seriously injured by a cyclist riding the wrong way down a one way street. To save you scrolling back through the pages here is my original post: Ok given the media coverage of that guy Charlie Alliston who killed a pedestrian while riding a bike with no brakes, I ask this question: Should cyclists be required to take a test for a license, tax their bikes, MOT their bikes and have insurance in the same way that a vehicle driver must ? Given my own experience of cyclists I have to answer with a very large YES. One way streets are exactly that. Red lights are exactly that. Pavements are exactly that. Why is it different if you ride a bike ? Rant over. 31 minutes ago, BigTone said: In New Zealand: Cyclist skills training Learning to ride a bicycle takes lots of practice so you should consider taking a course. Courses vary and cover a range of skills depending on who they are designed for. If you are interested in taking a course, contact your local council, bike club or bike shop to find a local training provider. The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), Bike NZ and CAN have recently developed national guidelines for cyclist skills training. The training is separated into three grades of learning. Grade 1 - Beginner: Skills for full cycle control in non-traffic environments. Grade 2 - Intermediate: Skills to cycle in a variety of traffic environments. Grade 3 - Advanced: Skills to cycle confidently in all traffic environments. Grade 1 - Beginner If you are a beginner cyclist, learn to cycle in a safe place off the road. Beginners need to learn about their bicycle and how to control it. You should learn to: do a bicycle check do a helmet check understand the legal requirements and safety equipment for bicycles get on and off the bicycle without help start off and pedal without help stop quickly and with control steer the bicycle and manoeuvre safely to avoid objects look behind signal (stop, left, right) use the gears. Grade 2 - Intermediate Grade 2 cyclists need to learn skills to ride safely in a variety of traffic situations. Practice needs to take place on quiet roads. You should learn to: do all of the grade 1 skills understand road signs and the road rules start from the side of the road (kerb) stop on the side of the road (kerb) ride along the road pass a parked or slower moving vehicle travel straight through controlled and uncontrolled intersections turn left - at controlled and uncontrolled intersections turn right - at controlled and uncontrolled intersections use cycle lanes (optional) use shared paths (optional) ride through single lane roundabouts (optional) ride through traffic signals (optional). Grade 3 - Advanced Grade 3 cyclists need to learn to ride safely in all traffic situations. Practice in a variety of traffic situations. You should learn to: do all of the grade 1 and 2 skills use multi-laned roundabouts use intersections with traffic signals turn in and out of multi-laned roads overtake to the start of the queue recognise hazards and be an assertive, but also safe and confident cyclist share the road with other users ride in high-speed traffic environments (rural) do hook turns (optional) ride in groups (optional). something from NSW in Australia which makes little sense about ID, a bit from New Zealand which is optional?? and you want to add that to all the rest and you still claim you are not anti cycling!! You have not found one Government in Europe and further that does what you want. Of course it will all lead to less cyclists. my insurance for my car is nothing like that for bikes. what insurance are you referring to? house insurance for bikes ? link? I can honestly say I have never felt targeted by any driver at any time. Youve been unusually lucky. Why is it people are turning this into "everybody hates us cyclists" You have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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