Roadrunner Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Yes i agree the timing is a problem. But you could still play them in the u23s, and sell them or loan them in January. Why the transfer window is still open weeks into the European football season is beyond me.Should be closed the day before the season starts in which ever division, country the player is going to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Imagine my surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Hinds, Morrell and Moore. If it goes wrong at Cheltenham they could open a firm of personal injury claims specialists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Another one that needs to handle the tougher side of the game better? He is certainly going to come up against some tough nuts in that league. Exactly...the downside to having players come in from abroad, regardless of experience, is that it is a shock to their system just how fast and physical the Championship is. Some adapt quicker better than others...others don't, both physically, mentally, turn of speed, strength, mind, tactics etc. Even an old head like Pisano is finding the pace and physicality brutal. It's imo, the toughest league in the world to play football in. Take into consideration also how we are proposing to play, fast high tempo, with lots of pressing and movement, then you need to be spot on, as the margins are so fine. Just a deflected shot, like against Villa, make all the difference between 3 points or 1....do that over a season and it costs you. Interesting what Holden was saying yesterday when being interviewed at the training session. Two for each position. Moore will find games harder in this league and below, than playing U20's for England and for Lens, as it was against far less physical players and more time on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjam!n Ultra Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 THIS IS EXTREMELY SURPRISING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Roadrunner said: I know it only till the end of the year. I know his only trying to help daddy out. I for one am getting feed up with loaning out this players for us only to replace them with other loan players from other clubs.Give them a run of 5 to 6 games in the first team, if they are not good enough after that then loan them out. But the point is, now that the transfer rules have been changed so that no loans are allowed outside of the windows, after playing 5-6 games and realising they're not ready yet, we can't do anything with them until the January window opens, other than playing them in the under 23s. This way they're getting games at a decent level, and if they can't hack it there, then they most definitely aren't ready for our first team. If you ask me the loan window should have been left alone, largely due to the reasons you state in your first post. Too many clubs were using it though as an addition to the permanent window, by signing loans, and then making the deals permanent as soon as possible after that. I'm not sure of the exact reasons for it changing, but wouldnt be surprised if that was one of the reasons for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Buckeyed said: We only have 1 day to find them loans if they aren't going to be first team regulars. If there wasn't any League 1 clubs interested then I can certainly see the logic. I very much doubt if any timescale came into this, Johnson junior and senior would have had this set up for a while. To me it's a case of, helping Dad is more important than what's best for BCFC. These players should be going to teams where they will be coached into becoming better players, it won't happen at Cheltenham. Johny Smith was on loan there last season, he's now gone down a level to the Conference?? That loan really worked for BCFC then!. It seriously makes me wonder if the 'supposed' signing players for the future,is actually, signing players to loan out to Dad. I personally have had enough of the Johnsons being more important to each other than our football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 With regard to Taylor Moore, he joined Bury on loan in January this year at the age of 19 making 13 appearances At the same age, Joe Bryan was joining Plymouth on loan, making 10 appearances I'd like to think both Taylor and the club are in it for the long term so as long as he is committed and progresses, there's no reason why he cant emulate what Joe has achieved to date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster3 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Roadrunner said: I know it only till the end of the year. I know his only trying to help daddy out. I for one am getting feed up with loaning out this players for us only to replace them with other loan players from other clubs.Give them a run of 5 to 6 games in the first team, if they are not good enough after that then loan them out. Seems like Daddy is still running this club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 What a complete waste we are making of Taylor Moore. Youth level England captain. Made radio Bristol co-commentator for a game. Now in lower league L2 on a pitch that regularly has about 30% grass on it. **** sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: I very much doubt if any timescale came into this, Johnson junior and senior would have had this set up for a while. To me it's a case of, helping Dad is more important than what's best for BCFC. These players should be going to teams where they will be coached into becoming better players, it won't happen at Cheltenham. Johny Smith was on loan there last season, he's now gone down a level to the Conference?? That loan really worked for BCFC then!. It seriously makes me wonder if the 'supposed' signing players for the future,is actually, signing players to loan out to Dad. I personally have had enough of the Johnsons being more important to each other than our football club. Unfortunately I think the Johnsons are more important to SL and JL too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 22 minutes ago, Roadrunner said: I for one am getting feed up with loaning out this players for us only to replace them with other loan players from other clubs. I think this is a short-sighted view. Hinds is currently not considered to be good enough for the championship, but will be in the future. So loan him out and get somebody who is considered competent at this level in on loan until Hinds has stepped up a level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engvall's Splinter Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Disappointing moves for Hinds and Moore. Would've expected somewhere else especially for Moore who's gone backwards it seems. Overdue for Morrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 32 minutes ago, spudski said: It's only for 4 months. Don't knock where they are going to. I think it will suit all parties, more so us tbh. It will be easier to keep an eye on their progression, not just through match's, but in training as well. Plus the relationship with manager will be more trustworthy, I should imagine. For what it's worth, I was really impressed with Plavotic last night....his development has come on leaps and bounds since joining Cheltenham. They'll get plenty of game time and better development at Cheltenham, than some random club we've got no 'affiliation' with imo. Affiliation?? As a football club we have no affiliation with Cheltenham Town. Or at you telling me these deals would still have been done if Dad 'wasn't' their manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Peg Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I just want to know when did Uncle Pete scout these 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Forget the Family connection, and relationship between the Lansdowns and Johnsons. Other Championship Clubs would be ripping your hand off, to have the 'connection' we have between our Club and another Club in the football league, especially as it's also geographically close as well. Take into consideration the family connection, both are going to look out for one another, and talk about development a lot more freely. All some people are doing is focussing on the family connection....and seeing it as a negative. Why not make the connection? I can only see positives for the players development tbh. 3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Affiliation?? As a football club we have no affiliation with Cheltenham Town. Or at you telling me these deals would still have been done if Dad 'wasn't' their manager? Hence the ' '.....of course it's because of GJ. But why not? Why is it so wrong? I can only see benefits. No different to say Watfords owners, owning other clubs abroad and using them to develop and borrow players from. Different scenario, but using a 'connection' of some sort of trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 It's worth remembering with Taylor Moore that whilst he was an exciting signing with international appearances to his name, he'd only ever played a couple of times for Lens and is the same age as Zak Vyner. I'm not sure there'd be as much despair if it were Vyner going out on loan to Cheltenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppello Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm more concerned with McCoulsky going to Newport only to find himself on the bench, not even getting on as a sub. That's not going to develop his game at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 All preparation for Dad returning as Director of Football, and uncle as Chief Scout ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 yes lets bash both johnsons for loaning 3 under 23 players that aren't ready or near the first team, that makes sense doesn't it, Lets stunt their progress by not letting them play mens football and onlying give them 90 mins if a cup and the odd 5 minutes here and there, Is hinds going to get in the team infront of Reid, Fam, Taylor or Woodrow? Is morrell going to get in the first team infront of ONeil, Pack Smith Brownhill? Is Moore going to get into the first team in front of Baker, Wright, Maggers, Vyner, Pasion, Flint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC1990 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, spudski said: Forget the Family connection, and relationship between the Lansdowns and Johnsons. Other Championship Clubs would be ripping your hand off, to have the 'connection' we have between our Club and another Club in the football league, especially as it's also geographically close as well. Take into consideration the family connection, both are going to look out for one another, and talk about development a lot more freely. All some people are doing is focussing on the family connection....and seeing it as a negative. Why not make the connection? I can only see positives for the players development tbh. Hence the ' '.....of course it's because of GJ. But why not? Why is it so wrong? I can only see benefits. No different to say Watfords owners, owning other clubs abroad and using them to develop and borrow players from. Different scenario, but using a 'connection' of some sort of trust. My issue is gj does not have a great record developing youngsters. Did it help jonny smith or diego last season? I also know young players who were aroundthe squad during his reign gj was in charge here and all have said he wasn't interested in young player development it was all about results for the first team. I believe you have mentioned similar in the past I will always be grateful to gj for 2 of my favourite seasons following city and hope i am wrong but do not share you confidence in this arrangement it seems to me more about helping dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Monkeh said: yes lets bash both johnsons for loaning 3 under 23 players that aren't ready or near the first team, that makes sense doesn't it, Lets stunt their progress by not letting them play mens football and onlying give them 90 mins if a cup and the odd 5 minutes here and there, Is hinds going to get in the team infront of Reid, Fam, Taylor or Woodrow? Is morrell going to get in the first team infront of ONeil, Pack Smith Brownhill? Is Moore going to get into the first team in front of Baker, Wright, Maggers, Vyner, Pasion, Flint? How dare you post a sensible, well reasoned comment! This is OTIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Well if can't help your family out what's it coming to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, BCFC1990 said: My issue is gj does not have a great record developing youngsters. Did it help jonny smith or diego last season? I also know young players who were aroundthe squad during his reign gj was in charge here and all have said he wasn't interested in young player development it was all about results for the first team. I believe you have mentioned similar in the past I will always be grateful to gj for 2 of my favourite seasons following city and hope i am wrong but do not share you confidence in this arrangement it seems to me more about helping dad well he got the best out of Fontaine, Maynard haynes and Nyatanga while here, helped develop skuse as well, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, spudski said: Forget the Family connection, and relationship between the Lansdowns and Johnsons. Other Championship Clubs would be ripping your hand off, to have the 'connection' we have between our Club and another Club in the football league, especially as it's also geographically close as well. Take into consideration the family connection, both are going to look out for one another, and talk about development a lot more freely. All some people are doing is focussing on the family connection....and seeing it as a negative. Why not make the connection? I can only see positives for the players development tbh. Hence the ' '.....of course it's because of GJ. But why not? Why is it so wrong? I can only see benefits. No different to say Watfords owners, owning other clubs abroad and using them to develop and borrow players from. Different scenario, but using a 'connection' of some sort of trust. "Why not". Because Gary Johnson is not the correct manager/coach to send these players to. He has a zero record of developing younger players, in fact i would go as far as saying his lack of interest in developing young players at City sent us back five years. It took years for the City managers 'after' Johnson to get rid of all the journeymen he had signed. As I said in a previous post, Johny Smith is now playing in the Conference after being on loan at league 2 Cheltenham last season, he's gone down a level!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Key things to think about when sending players on loan: 1. Player will actually get given game time, so can progress. (I'd think it's preferable to play 20 games at L2 level than being a sub and making 5/10 apps at L1 level) 2. Trust between clubs that the player will be developed. Ideally with an experienced manager who can help develop the player. (Whether you like him or not, GJ is an experienced manager) 3. Good relationship to report/discuss progress of player to parent club. 4. The geographical factor shouldn't be estimated either. Not only from the clubs point of view, I.E watching the players or if they have a minor injury but also the players point of view. They are close enough to home to either commute or get back when they can. For me, taking emotion out of it and putting the parent links aside, the move makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, BCFC1990 said: My issue is gj does not have a great record developing youngsters. Did it help jonny smith or diego last season? I also know young players who were aroundthe squad during his reign gj was in charge here and all have said he wasn't interested in young player development it was all about results for the first team. I believe you have mentioned similar in the past I will always be grateful to gj for 2 of my favourite seasons following city and hope i am wrong but do not share you confidence in this arrangement it seems to me more about helping dad Jonny Smith was injured for a lot of last season, Girolamo has added goals to his game and according to @spudski Plavotic has improved a lot. GJ wasn't one for developing youngsters here, but he is in different circumstances at Cheltenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, BCFC1990 said: My issue is gj does not have a great record developing youngsters. Did it help jonny smith or diego last season? I also know young players who were aroundthe squad during his reign gj was in charge here and all have said he wasn't interested in young player development it was all about results for the first team. I believe you have mentioned similar in the past I will always be grateful to gj for 2 of my favourite seasons following city and hope i am wrong but do not share you confidence in this arrangement it seems to me more about helping dad Totally agree...but it is a completely different scenario now. When GJ was at City, SL was throwing money around on 'experienced' players like it was going out of fashion. The Academy was neglected and none of those kids were getting the development they needed or anywhere near good enough to play Championship level. We are now looking to develop players. GJ is at a Club with no money, and the players we give him, will get valuable experience, plus they are a good standard for that division. It's a win win scenario. To others saying GJ is awful at developing youngsters....others have pointed out, that's not the case. What he did here, cannot be compared to what he has done at other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Monkeh said: well he got the best out of Fontaine, Maynard haynes and Nyatanga while here, helped develop skuse as well, Nyatanga was already an established C'Ship centre back. As for Skuse pa ha ha ha. He was kept out of the team most of the time by LJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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