Red-Robbo Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said: Perhaps those questioning the loan deals on here should tell us whether they think Brian Tinnion should resign...? What a ridiculously OTT response. Leaving aside whether we might deduce a hand other than Tin's might be behind these moves, he's doing a decent job and why would anyone want him gone over one misjudgement? This is Otib however. Not Pravda. We are allowed to question the club's judgement. 19 minutes ago, spudski said: Did Darren Ferguson and Nigel Clough get as much stick as LJ? City are not Man United with talented youngsters from all over the UK overflowing from their books. As for Nigel Clough, hadn't dad retired by the time he began management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, spudski said: Forget the Family connection, and relationship between the Lansdowns and Johnsons. Other Championship Clubs would be ripping your hand off, to have the 'connection' we have between our Club and another Club in the football league, especially as it's also geographically close as well. Take into consideration the family connection, both are going to look out for one another, and talk about development a lot more freely. All some people are doing is focussing on the family connection....and seeing it as a negative. Why not make the connection? I can only see positives for the players development tbh. Hence the ' '.....of course it's because of GJ. But why not? Why is it so wrong? I can only see benefits. No different to say Watfords owners, owning other clubs abroad and using them to develop and borrow players from. Different scenario, but using a 'connection' of some sort of trust. Hi Spud, I don't think you can forget the family connection. Why would you as a club loan out players to a club with a manager you've previously sacked? A manager who seems to, for the last couple of seasons, struggled to keep Cheltenham from league 2 relegation scraps. These moves for me are all about GJ trying to save his ass again and aren't in the best interests of the players. Surely these players could have gone to better teams from the lower leagues that are challenging more at the top end of their respective tables than the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, RumRed said: Ridiculous, if I were Hinds or Moore I'd be looking for a way out asap. Not so sure about Morrell. This is a ridiculous comment. They both would have had to have agreed the loan move . We can't force a player to go out on loan. I think this sort of deal suits all parties. Cheltenham get some decent young players on the cheap. The players get game time whilst not having to move away from Bristol and I highly suspect they will still train with us a few days of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, spudski said: Think about it RR....no way would SL or LJ undermine the development of the Clubs players, to help out Cheltenham. Regardless of being 'Friends'. No way would players join us, if we had a reputation of nepotism. Young players are willing to join us now, as they know they will be fast tracked and developed quicker here, than just sitting playing U23 football for years. They are kids...they aren't ready for Championship football yet over a whole season. Don't underestimate the value they will get playing League 2 football. I remember lowly Mangotsfield outplaying and bullying our U23's in a Glos Cup final when we had Cotts here. That was an eye opener as to how far behind these kids are physically and mentally. We'll have to agree to disagree, Spud. I'm not arguing that any of these players should be starting in the Championship. However, to develop them, I'd be happier if Hinds and Moore were getting game time alongside decent L1 players rather than poor L2 ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, spudski said: Totally agree...but it is a completely different scenario now. When GJ was at City, SL was throwing money around on 'experienced' players like it was going out of fashion. The Academy was neglected and none of those kids were getting the development they needed or anywhere near good enough to play Championship level. We are now looking to develop players. GJ is at a Club with no money, and the players we give him, will get valuable experience, plus they are a good standard for that division. It's a win win scenario. To others saying GJ is awful at developing youngsters....others have pointed out, that's not the case. What he did here, cannot be compared to what he has done at other clubs. Seriously Spudski, this is a manager that closed down Yeovil Town's academy. When he left Yeovil they opened it up again!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 55 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Good move for all of them. League 2 is a good standard to test these three and learn how to cope in men's football. Taylor Moore played half a season for Bury in League One. Is League Two a high enough standard for him. And also perhaps the other two as well. That's my big reservation about them going to Cheltenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: What a ridiculously OTT response. Leaving aside whether we might deduce a hand other than Tin's might be behind these moves, he's doing a decent job and why would anyone want him gone over one misjudgement? I guess I was just wondering that if Brian's professional judgement is being overruled... I certainly don't want him gone. But I wouldn't want to be in his position if his integrity is in doubt with dubious quotes being put out in his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: It's being viewed negatively because Cheltenham are a poor L2 side who nearly ended up non-league themselves last season. If we want to develop the careers of Hinds and Moore they are good enough to take on the best L1 has to offer. A decent-sized club there would've been a better loan. Otherwise you may as well keep them in the development squad here. We were a poor championship side who almost were a L1 side but didn't seem to hinder Tammy Abraham's development. Point is, the most important thing is regular time in the league. Cheltenham not a great side but that's where we benefit from each other. They get better and our players get experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: We were a poor championship side who almost were a L1 side but didn't seem to hinder Tammy Abraham's development. Point is, the most important thing is regular time in the league. Cheltenham not a great side but that's where we benefit from each other. They get better and our players get experience. But Tammy was only one league below his parent club Chelsea. Moore has already helped Bury to stay up last season - no bench warming for him. I consider this is the easy option due to family connection. Hinds and Moore should be in League One. Probably ok for Morrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Weirdly it's not MY job to arrange loans for City's players. I guess if you think the only clubs willing to take two highly promising players are ones where the manager has Sunday lunch with our manager then you might have a modicum of a point. So you don't actually know how any of this works (like me) but you are an expert at knowing what shouldn't happen. I guess of the 23 teams in Lge 1 that maybe 6 want to take "promising players" but 1 of those could be Rochdale and you wouldn't send anyone to Rochdale least of all a youngster. That leaves 5 teams some of whom may not play football or have the coaching facilities that suit us. So, we're down to a handful of teams but some of them may have managers with sons in the game so that rules them out as they will have sorted it all out over the Roast Beef. If only City had your expertise to get the last couple of clubs available in Lge 1 to take our "promising youngsters" rather than the other 43 teams, in Championship and Premiership, who are also plying their wares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Scotty Murray Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Chalkie said: I'm more concerned with McCoulsky going to Newport only to find himself on the bench, not even getting on as a sub. That's not going to develop his game at all Agreed that it is a concern but I think we should give that one a bit more time. Strange he is not getting game when he has scored a few goals for them but to be fair they are doing well in the league so we shouldn't question their selection too much and it is still early days in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Scotty Murray Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: yes lets bash both johnsons for loaning 3 under 23 players that aren't ready or near the first team, that makes sense doesn't it, Lets stunt their progress by not letting them play mens football and onlying give them 90 mins if a cup and the odd 5 minutes here and there, Is hinds going to get in the team infront of Reid, Fam, Taylor or Woodrow? Is morrell going to get in the first team infront of ONeil, Pack Smith Brownhill? Is Moore going to get into the first team in front of Baker, Wright, Maggers, Vyner, Pasion, Flint? I don't think anyone is questioning that they should go out on loan, it is more where they have gone that is the issue, mainly for Moore & Hinds, not so much for Morrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: We were a poor championship side who almost were a L1 side but didn't seem to hinder Tammy Abraham's development. Point is, the most important thing is regular time in the league. Cheltenham not a great side but that's where we benefit from each other. They get better and our players get experience. We were a league below Joe regardless of where we were in the league. Tammy played week in week out against players a league below his parent club and reaped the rewards (as did we of course). But it was 1 league not 2 leagues. He wouldn't have been here if we were div 1. I think Hinds and Moore should be doing the same and playing in Div 1, one league below their parent club. Cheltenham are currently 23rd in Div 2. Big big difference imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 As long as they play the majority of available minutes, I think this works. Yes; league one would maybe be a better level to test them at, but not concerned if they get matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 There seems to be consensus that for Morrell, it's the right move. For Hinds - end of the day he's an 18 year old with less than 300 minutes game time. He's good - but to suggest that a league 1 team would have him as any more than a bench player initially with that in mind is barmy. And the loan is short enough that there isn't much time to turn that around. League 2s the right level, and somewhere where he should start. Moore - only seen a few times. I rate him purely from those times (Hull) but reviews at Bury were mixed. There's a case for higher but guaranteed games in league 2 rather than possibles in league 1 has to be better for his development. Regardless of what we may think, no league 1 team would have been falling over themselves for any of the three as starters so getting them game time in league 2 makes perfect sense, when you consider the loan length. My one hope, as with any loan, is if they don't play we think twice about sending others - even if GJ is the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, super_scotty_murray said: I don't think anyone is questioning that they should go out on loan, it is more where they have gone that is the issue, mainly for Moore & Hinds, not so much for Morrell. You would have to ask loans manager Brian Tinnian about that, as far as we know, no club have been interested and Gary is doing us a favor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 It a day before the window shuts, they will get games at Cheltenham for 4 months. Does anybody have any information that they are League one clubs hammering on LJ's door demanding that these players be sent there instead of Cheltenham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Monkeh said: You would have to ask loans manager Brian Tinnian about that, as far as we know, no club have been interested and Gary is doing us a favor If no club was interested, which I'd be very surprised, we should be selling them to Cheltenham, not loaning them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generation1 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 leaving the family connection out is difficult but I am sure Fergusan jnr was helped out by his dad from time to time however I think that the larger picture is being ignored here , while everyone is talking about where we should send them perhaps we should look at the pattern which is emerging . in Bath ,Cheltenham and Yeovil we are starting to develop a feeder club system where we can farm out players for development in leagues where we otherwise have no control. whats to say that we will not also get the pick of any promising players they have by this connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydneybcfc Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 If they get regular EFL football week in week out its got to be better than u23/bench warming no matter what the level, as others have said we've no idea if anyone was knocking on the door for them anyway! And 3 young lads, with Cheltenham they can live at home and pop up the road for training and home matches. The last thing a young player needs to be is in the Kodjia situation, sat in some hotel or temporary accommodation in Fleetwood texting all their mates/partners in Bristol all night because they are lonely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 32 minutes ago, Up The City! said: This is a ridiculous comment. They both would have had to have agreed the loan move . We can't force a player to go out on loan. I think this sort of deal suits all parties. Cheltenham get some decent young players on the cheap. The players get game time whilst not having to move away from Bristol and I highly suspect they will still train with us a few days of the week. Let's get some reality here, if GJ was manager of Carlisle, that's where these players would be going. Because if GJ wasn't managing Cheltenham they wouldn't be going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sydneybcfc said: If they get regular EFL football week in week out its got to be better than u23/bench warming no matter what the level, as others have said we've no idea if anyone was knocking on the door for them anyway! And 3 young lads, with Cheltenham they can live at home and pop up the road for training and home matches. The last thing a young player needs to be is in the Kodjia situation, sat in some hotel or temporary accommodation in Fleetwood texting all their mates/partners in Bristol all night because they are lonely. I don't think you'd get anybody arguing that these players would be better off getting game time. I'm just amazed that we couldn't find a club in league 1 or upper league 2 to take them on. I get the point about setting up connections with lower league clubs and farming off players to them for game time. I'm just not convinced at all that GJ is the best coach for young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 OTIB in 'ridiculous overreaction' shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said: It's literally being viewed negatively because GJ is there. Any other L2 club and there wouldn't be a word. Think most think Morrell is the best fit for them but people are being blinded by Hinds cup goals. He needs more experience and in L1 they'll be looking for a more proven player. Taylor Moore because he's played England U20 people think that means he's ready to play men's football but in reality he's been playing some of those games against smaller countries u20 as well. He's got a long way to go before he's ready for the championship and that is fine because he is a 20 year old CB!!! If Cheltenham were in the conference I could see why people complain but reality is they're a league club and close to Bristol. It's not only a good connection to have for the club but good for the young players who can still be around their family and friends in the area. If anything we should be hoping Cheltenham keep getting better and we help make that happen because it benefits our young players. You'd honestly think that we never loaned any players to Cheltenham before GJ was manager there . You are quite right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 It's worth considering when talking about loans...would Chelsea let Tammy come here, and WBA let Leko come here, if our coach and club were deemed useless at understanding developing players? I think not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: OTIB in 'ridiculous overreaction' shocker. Or OTIB in 'ridiculous Bristol City football discussion on a Bristol City fans discussuion board' shocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: I don't think you'd get anybody arguing that these players would be better off getting game time. I'm just amazed that we couldn't find a club in league 1 or upper league 2 to take them on. I get the point about setting up connections with lower league clubs and farming off players to them for game time. I'm just not convinced at all that GJ is the best coach for young players. Even a bad coach can be a good experience for young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, spudski said: It's worth considering when talking about loans...would Chelsea let Tammy come here, and WBA let Leko come here, if our coach and club were deemed useless at understanding developing players? I think not... If that manager were your father though would that not cloud your judgement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: We were a poor championship side who almost were a L1 side but didn't seem to hinder Tammy Abraham's development. Point is, the most important thing is regular time in the league. Cheltenham not a great side but that's where we benefit from each other. They get better and our players get experience. I take your point there, but I feel poor management made us a poorer side than we needed have been last season. Anyway, let me put the lid back on that particular cans of worms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Even a bad coach can be a good experience for young players. True but not as good as a good coach you'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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