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Concourse seating (lack of)


Rich

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

So every club in the country lacks the desire to 'overcome the obstacles' to provide can concourse seating? 

I don't know if it IS a healh and safety issue or not, but if the HSE say you can't do something, then you can't do something. Doesn't matter how much 'desire' there is. 

I don't believe for one second that the club are wilfully not installing seats in the concourse because it costs too much. 

I'm saying that I don't believe there is a desire to do it. As such it is not a priority. And that probably goes for all football clubs. Though obviously some (Burton) no doubt there are others, do provide seating.

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16 minutes ago, Rich said:

May I suggest that you take your head from out of your backside and show a little respect to a fellow supporter.

Of course I have considered all of those things you mention and yes, I do believe it's for the reasons I've stated. The ground has been developed to provide as much income as possible, That's why it's full of bars, shops and places to relieve you of your money.

Am I grateful, yes, of course I am but I'm not gullible or stupid enough to think the problem, if there truly is one, could not have been overcome by now, if there was a desire to so do.

My head is just fine where it is, I just don't buy into this common occurrence of blaming the club for everything that they can or can't do.

And to blame it on the club not being willing to spend the money is quite honestly ridiculous after supplying the facilities they have & at the cost that they have.

Unfortunately there are just some things that are out of the clubs hands & it's not for the want of trying.

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5 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

The club are as frustrated as you are about this, it's something so basic & so easy but simply put, if the club installed seats in the concourse, it would mean no fans being allowed in the stadium as the club wouldn't get the necessary safety certificates!!

What would you prefer?

BTW, makes no difference to me as I've been unable to attend a game for 2 & a half years but I can assure you it has nothing to do with cost (although I still think you must be joking about that being a reason).

How many people do you think may injure / fall over such seating while entering / exiting the stadium? Those that then fall could get stood on & then you have a massive incident on your hands. And just imagine the legal proceedings that would be lodged against the club for injuries or worse!!

Yes it's extreme but it is very much a possibility especially when 20,000 people are all trying to exit & people are in such a rush, not everyone is 30 years old & able bodied but everyone exits the stadium at the same time.

Have you actually been in the areas I refer to then, because if you haven't been for two and a half years, you wouldn't know that there are many obstacles situated around and through the concourse which cause obstructions. Unfortunately, apart from bins, they mostly produce some form of income. The area under the Dolman stand is more than adequate to accommodate hundreds of seating around the perimeter. And there are several areas within the South Stand and Lansdown stand which could also provide seating without causing obstruction.

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4 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

My head is just fine where it is, I just don't buy into this common occurrence of blaming the club for everything that they can or can't do.

And to blame it on the club not being willing to spend the money is quite honestly ridiculous after supplying the facilities they have & at the cost that they have.

Unfortunately there are just some things that are out of the clubs hands & it's not for the want of trying.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying the club won't provide seating purely down to the cost. I'm saying that they won't invest voluntarily because, they think the retail income is providing sufficient levels, that they don't feel the need to provide it.

You make statements as if you are part of the decision making process, or in the know, regarding what happens within the stadium and the regulations regarding H&S and, how they hinder the club in it's operations. Can you inform me of the discussions that you know have taken place between the club and the safety advisory group regarding concourse seating. I would genuinely like to know.

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5 minutes ago, Rich said:

Have you actually been in the areas I refer to then, because if you haven't been for two and a half years, you wouldn't know that there are many obstacles situated around and through the concourse which cause obstructions. Unfortunately, apart from bins, they mostly produce some form of income. The area under the Dolman stand is more than adequate to accommodate hundreds of seating around the perimeter. And there are several areas within the South Stand and Lansdown stand which could also provide seating without causing obstruction.

Yes I have been, I had a complete ground tour & asked the question as to why there was no seating or tables throughout the entire concourse & the response I got was that the club have explored every avenue but have been given the same answers & they are as frustrated as everyone else but they really do have no option.

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2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Yes I have been, I had a complete ground tour & asked the question as to why there was no seating or tables throughout the entire concourse & the response I got was that the club have explored every avenue but have been given the same answers & they are as frustrated as everyone else but they really do have no option.

That's what I was told, over a year ago, I don't believe it.

Thousands of people rush through airport terminals every hour, and there are seating areas. You get them in corridors, in public areas within cinemas and theatres, outside courtrooms, in bus stations, in fact most public areas provide some seating.

I believe, as in other instances, football supporters are treated more shabbily than other members of the human race. Whether that be by the clubs or the SAGS it still boils down to the same thing. Plebs.

I'm more than willing to be proven wrong though, perhaps someone can provide the legislation regarding football stadia having different rules than other public areas.

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2 minutes ago, Rich said:

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying the club won't provide seating purely down to the cost. I'm saying that they won't invest voluntarily because, they think the retail income is providing sufficient levels, that they don't feel the need to provide it.

You make statements as if you are part of the decision making process, or in the know, regarding what happens within the stadium and the regulations regarding H&S and, how they hinder the club in it's operations. Can you inform me of the discussions that you know have taken place between the club and the safety advisory group regarding concourse seating. I would genuinely like to know.

The club would make more money from their food / drinks outlets if people had somewhere to sit / put their food / drink because as things stand it is more or less impossible for anyone to have a boiling hot drink in one hand & eat a pie with just one hand, so the club know people won't buy 2 things (or more) at once because it is virtually impossible to consume what they have bought without spilling or dropping what they've bought.

I was able to ask the question on a one on one basis, face to face with the staff member, so there wasn't lots of people trying to ask various questions, his attention was fully on what I was saying / asking & my attention was fully on what he had to say as I didn't have to listen to other people asking questions & him having to answer them.

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5 minutes ago, Rich said:

That's what I was told, over a year ago, I don't believe it.

Thousands of people rush through airport terminals every hour, and there are seating areas. You get them in corridors, in public areas within cinemas and theatres, outside courtrooms, in bus stations, in fact most public areas provide some seating.

I believe, as in other instances, football supporters are treated more shabbily than other members of the human race. Whether that be by the clubs or the SAGS it still boils down to the same thing. Plebs.

I'm more than willing to be proven wrong though, perhaps someone can provide the legislation regarding football stadia having different rules than other public areas.

But cinemas & airports etc don't have concourses.

There is nothing stopping anyone from taking their food or drinks (non alcoholic) into the stadium are to their seats, the same as there is nothing stopping anyone from taking their food & drinks into the cinema or airport waiting areas.

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2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

The club would make more money from their food / drinks outlets if people had somewhere to sit / put their food / drink because as things stand it is more or less impossible for anyone to have a boiling hot drink in one hand & eat a pie with just one hand, so the club know people won't buy 2 things (or more) at once because it is virtually impossible to consume what they have bought without spilling or dropping what they've bought.

I was able to ask the question on a one on one basis, face to face with the staff member, so there wasn't lots of people trying to ask various questions, his attention was fully on what I was saying / asking & my attention was fully on what he had to say as I didn't have to listen to other people asking questions & him having to answer them.

I'm glad you are happy to accept that answer from the club employee you spoke to.

As I have witnessed, because I have been there, the bars are selling more than one item per customer, as most customers have two hands and actually are, capable of holding a pie/pasty in one hand and a drink in their other hand. Many purchases are of two pints at a time, in those cases the floor is used to rest the other drink and the person stands over it, protecting it like a small child.

Honestly, takings are massive, and as a result, like in most instances of retail, they don't have to try too hard to make oodles of cash. Why do any more than they have to? 

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5 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

But cinemas & airports etc don't have concourses.

There is nothing stopping anyone from taking their food or drinks (non alcoholic) into the stadium are to their seats, the same as there is nothing stopping anyone from taking their food & drinks into the cinema or airport waiting areas.

What on earth are you talking about? The whole area at the front entrance to Bristol airport is a concourse. The areas outside multiplex cinemas are concourses, it's where people congregate before going into the cinema or airport lounges and internal concourses.

My family group would like to include my brother in law within that group, when we attend football matches. Because there is no seating in the concourse area, you are suggesting that we all go to the stadium seating and partake in our refreshments in the cold soulless bowl prior to kick off time. You have now just hit the nail on the head, we want to enjoy the concourse facilities, as a group, we cannot presently do that. What happens now is, we go our separate ways prior to a match, my brother in law does not attend, and as such probably two other members of the family also don't attend.

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I can see the interest in having seating in the concourse areas but it is never going to happen.  Too many hot potatoes, who would want to sign that off as a "yes / go ahead" to then take responsibility when a serious incident arises.  Even around the edges HSE would have major concerns but don't forget there would be concerns also from Fire & Rescue Service and critically the stadium liability insurers.

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HSE, SAG and fire safety certificates.

Particularly the last bit but they would all feed into each other IMO in the event of a fire taking hold for example, seconds count.

Concrete doesn't burn yes, but there are other serious complexities. I suspect that, along with space ratio differences at Wembley someone alluded to will see clubs and especially licensing bodies err on side of caution. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

HSE, SAG and fire safety certificates.

Particularly the last bit but they would all feed into each other IMO in the event of a fire taking hold for example, seconds count.

Concrete doesn't burn yes, but there are other serious complexities. I suspect that, along with space ratio differences at Wembley someone alluded to will see clubs and especially licensing bodies err on side of caution. 

 

The SAGS are a combination of these people, are they not? They do err on the side of caution but, the seating within the ground is plastic, the bins with rubbish in them are plastic and an obstruction, the portable booths are an obstruction, the lane segregation at the food/drink outlets are an obstruction, a person with no seat, that sits on the floor is an obstruction, locating a food and drink outlet at the narrowest part of the concourse is an obstruction. There is room for seating within the large concourses without the risk to health and safety of the people using the concourses. I'd say it's down to interpretation and our SAGS interpret the rules more stringently than perhaps other groups. I think our club need to challenge this for the benefit of those less able bodied, who'd like to enjoy the facilities of the concourse.

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37 minutes ago, Float'n Over said:

I can see the interest in having seating in the concourse areas but it is never going to happen.  Too many hot potatoes, who would want to sign that off as a "yes / go ahead" to then take responsibility when a serious incident arises.  Even around the edges HSE would have major concerns but don't forget there would be concerns also from Fire & Rescue Service and critically the stadium liability insurers.

The restrictions on stairs and gangways within the stadium should be much more of a concern than the wide spaces within the concourse. Access is much worse within the stadium.

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Not wanting to turn this into a different angle. Forget white plastic chairs.

I am fully in support of the OP. It is totally nonsensical that seating of particulary a 'drop down' type, cannot be encompassed within the concourses or immediately outside of the stadium. 

The whole match day experience could benefit the masses with a more user friendly approach.

To be honest, protecting your treasured plastic pint, whilst eating a pie, trying to text a mate and having a crafty vape, would be so much better served with some form of basic seating. Therfore giving your hands the basic ability to perform these basic footballing supporters skills.

Furthermore, obviously for those of less able means, it can only be a good thing. 

ps how often have you thought on match day that you would have had the opportunity to have been able to have a pew, inside or directly outside of the stadium?

 

 

 

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We are unable to provide traditional seating areas with the concourses due to the following stipulation in the planning application:

Concourse's are both a means of escape and a first sterile area of safety should a stand have to evacuate.  No extra fire loading or obstruction can be introduced within these areas.

The bins are perceived as reasonable as they are a means to remove rubbish (itself a risk) 

The vendors trolley had to go be customised to be fully fire proofed.

I can assure you that if we could add seating areas and other aspects to the concourses we would.  Clearly after investing £40m +, there would be no aspiration to skimp on a small cost.

There are a couple of solutions we are looking at with our fire risk assessors on leaner shelving which will help. 

Mark 

 

 

 

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How's about a chair hire scheme for the fans village? A folding chair can be hired for those who are unable to stand for any period of time and a gazebo erected during bad weather so they can still use the fan village? 

1 steward to ensure chairs/gazebo are returned and not misused. 

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I think its this bunch of clowns known as the stadium advisory group who seem to have complete say over what we can or cannot do since the rebuild.  No seats, lights on during the game, no chip fyers etc.

They seem to not acknowledge they are 100 x overkill compared to over similar groups in the country. Personally its time fans and the club started fighting back.. its redic that we have to have lights on during a game after what.. 30-40 years of not having to do so and every other ground in the country not doing so either. 

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19 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

I think its this bunch of clowns known as the stadium advisory group who seem to have complete say over what we can or cannot do since the rebuild.  No seats, lights on during the game, no chip fyers etc.

They seem to not acknowledge they are 100 x overkill compared to over similar groups in the country. Personally its time fans and the club started fighting back.. its redic that we have to have lights on during a game after what.. 30-40 years of not having to do so and every other ground in the country not doing so either. 

There's guidance that SAGs should consult with supporters but Bristol City Council have refused FoI requests on the basis that they should be able to consider things privately without scrutiny. They seem to have a different approach to other areas for sure who freely publish minutes etc.

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14 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

There's guidance that SAGs should consult with supporters but Bristol City Council have refused FoI requests on the basis that they should be able to consider things privately without scrutiny. They seem to have a different approach to other areas for sure who freely publish minutes etc.

I have noticed this- they seem to like it in secrecy.

I did a bit of casual research a while back and the last one which published some minutes on this was 2014, just before 2014-15 season.

@Tomarse @Rich I think they are overkill, I would agree on that in a number of areas.

For all that though, Mark Kelly is of course right. Absolutely right- this is all legit.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I have noticed this- they seem to like it in secrecy.

I did a bit of casual research a while back and the last one which published some minutes on this was 2014, just before 2014-15 season.

@Tomarse @Rich I think they are overkill, I would agree on that in a number of areas.

For all that though, Mark Kelly is of course right. Absolutely right- this is all legit.

I note the SAG for Hull City for example publish all minutes of meetings.  Ours refuses to do so even via FOI requests. 

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