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Concourse seating (lack of)


Rich

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3 hours ago, Rich said:

My comment about "self closing shutters" was an attempt at humour, shutters closing by themselves? I work in the construction industry and have enough experience of meeting building regulations, regarding containment of fire, detection of fire, door release systems and means of exit, though not in terms of stadium design I admit, I don't suppose many have,  I've yet to see shutters that close by themselves.

If you look at the concession shutters, you'll see the signage that says they're closing. Presumably this lights up (with an audio signal too) should the fire alarm activate and they close.

Something similar is shown top right here: https://www.ukrollershutters.co.uk/products/fire-shutters-curtains/fire-rated-roller-shutters/productsfire-rated-productsfire-rated-roller-shutterstwin-skin-fire-shutters/

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26 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

Just noticed this on the fans experience webpage. Even back then the club were listening to their fans feedback. Obviously they don't have the same Health & safety group as we have. 

"March 2013:

Further to feedback from fans, new mobile tables have been introduced in the lower Kop concourse. These tables provide an area for fans to rest their food/drinks and also contain a waste bin in the centre."

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/fans/fan-experience/lfc-is-listening

 

Just demonstrates how remote from us fans, sorry consumers, the Club has become and how lacking they are in their ability to understand fan issues. Sad. 

Clearly, our suits just want to maximise profit at the expense of customer comfort. May work in the short term lads, but the local pubs are becoming a more attractive proposition for some now the novelty of our somewhat soulless concourses is wearing off. 

Dont worry, I'm sure those who naively believe your excuses for not providing drinks stands will continue to patronise your bars.

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1 hour ago, Taxi for Johnson said:

Is that true?

 

tfj

Especially if there's nowhere to put your drink, other than the floor.

As I posted earlier, they turn the music up gradually in bars, which makes people talk less and drink more, studies have been made about it. Bit like product placement in supermarkets.

This is big business, they know how to maximise profits, we're talking in association with Heineken and Thatchers here mind, they're no mugs when it comes to selling.

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16 minutes ago, Rich said:

Especially if there's nowhere to put your drink, other than the floor.

As I posted earlier, they turn the music up gradually in bars, which makes people talk less and drink more, studies have been made about it. Bit like product placement in supermarkets.

This is big business, they know how to maximise profits, we're talking in association with Heineken and Thatchers here mind, they're no mugs when it comes to selling.

As someone who has run bars & pubs in the recent past, I can assure you that the music was never turned up to maximise drinking.

Customers would want to listen to music while drinking, those that also wanted to talk would then talk louder to be heard & the music would then in turn need to be turned up so that the paying public could enjoy their music, similarly with TV's for sporting events in pubs & bars, one battles the other.

Many pubs / bars are music based, especially on Thursday, Friday & Saturday evenings & when their not musically based, they are sport based, so the TV's are turned up especially for live football & rugby.

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10 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

As someone who has run bars & pubs in the recent past, I can assure you that the music was never turned up to maximise drinking.

Customers would want to listen to music while drinking, those that also wanted to talk would then talk louder to be heard & the music would then in turn need to be turned up so that the paying public could enjoy their music, similarly with TV's for sporting events in pubs & bars, one battles the other.

Many pubs / bars are music based, especially on Thursday, Friday & Saturday evenings & when their not musically based, they are sport based, so the TV's are turned up especially for live football & rugby.

Yours might not have been, I'm not lying. Google drinking and music and see for yourself. You'll find where studies have taken place and bars have used the music to drive up drink sales and consumption.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080718180723.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2432699/Loud-music-in-bars-makes-customers-drink-more-say-scientists.html

https://www.bighospitality.co.uk/Article/2011/12/14/Loud-music-could-improve-pub-and-bar-sales

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036389/Loud-music-pub-makes-drink-say-scientists.html

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33 minutes ago, Rich said:

Yep you’re right about this. A friend of mine who runs a bar swears by it. More applicable to busy / livelier places than a quiet country pub of course but what you’re saying is true.

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8 minutes ago, Rich said:

Are these similar researches that have stated the reasons for putting salty snacks on the bar in the past was to get people to drink more? (Again something that I never done or had ever been instructed to do).

If you look hard enough you'll find research done for just about everything, only this morning on the BBC Breakfast program was a story of research being done into honey bees & the fact that they are now superglueing trackers onto the back of said bees because no one knows how long a bee spends in it's hive or outside of it's hive or collecting pollen or doing whatever else & so they can see how long a bee lives!!

And people get paid for doing this 'research'!!

If people don't like the music or TV loud in their drinking establishment, there is nothing stopping anyone from moving on to another bar / pub but at the same time, there are people who enjoy loud music or the atmosphere created by having the sport turned up on the TV, bars & pubs are paying huge amounts to supply this entertainment, their not going to go to that expense & then have a live band on quietly in the background or the big match on mute.

There are pubs / bars that don't have this line of entertainment & that's fine, so how are they maximising profits without making people drink more by not being able to have a conversation?

People go to football for differing reasons, some go for a few beers & for the atmosphere & to have a good laugh with their mates, others go solely for the football, aren't interested in meeting up with others or having a few drinks or for any form of atmosphere & that's fine.

Unfortunately it is more or less impossible to accommodate everyone in any form of entertainment based business because you can be sure that someone won't like something that is going on at any given venue. You just can't please everyone & unfortunately your issue is something of a minority problem as far as the club is concerned because 90% or so of their paying public are happy with their matchday experience.

As I've mentioned previously, I simply no longer attend games because I don't expect the club to accommodate my needs, my issues aren't a problem of the clubs, they are a problem of mine & because of that I have to miss out on something that I spent nearly 40 years of my life doing & enjoying. Do I miss it? Hell yeah. Do I ever see myself returning to Ashton Gate on match days? If I'm honest, no I don't. But that is my decision & not one I expect the club to try & rectify.

My choice has meant that I miss out on socialising with friends & family, supporting my club & forgetting my troubles for a few hours a week or so because attending a match would simply mean me suffering even more than I already am for even more time & it's just not worth it to me.

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8 hours ago, Rich said:

Especially if there's nowhere to put your drink, other than the floor.

As I posted earlier, they turn the music up gradually in bars, which makes people talk less and drink more, studies have been made about it. Bit like product placement in supermarkets.

This is big business, they know how to maximise profits, we're talking in association with Heineken and Thatchers here mind, they're no mugs when it comes to selling.

How right you are-selling Heineken you would need to know every trick in the book-plus as few that aren't........

Ultimately if the club refuse to adopt common sense and not just keep trotting out the 'party line then there are many excellent venues on the way down to the ground which are accessible/suitable for all-and the food and drink better!

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It's smacks of the man who had threes wishes then wished for three more. We have a nice updated stadium but in crowds of almost 20k you can't please everyone. It's a concourse not a pub, if we had seats would people then be requesting pool tables dart boards or log fires? No other concourse (except maybe Liverpool) have seating. Wembley or the Principality Stadium with wide open concourses do not have seating. I sympathise with those who have problems with standing I have back issues myself and therefore unable to stand for any length of time but there are places around the ground where I can sit. It's not like the concourses are struggling for customers there are people on other threads stating how long it's takes to get served. Are the concourse really that fantastic that people who are unable to stand feel that they are missing out?

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 03:56, Fodbarmyarmy said:

I dont think i can recall any of the away concourse areas ive been to with seating?

Certainly not Newcastle cuz i bloody needed it after that climb...

Most have ledges to put glasses on but not seats....

If you want to sit i guess you go to a lounge?

 

This is not about wanting to sit, it's about "needing" to sit.  Needing to sit close to the main stadium seating prior to a match, to enjoy the facilities with either family and friends, or both.

There are numerous people that need to sit, disabled, back pain sufferers, people with heart conditions, the elderly, asthmatics, add whoever else there might be. Currently those people have to either miss out on the concourse facilities to arrive in time to take their seat for the game, or, use facilities elsewhere, or not attend, like Tipps69. I know the sports bar is available, but, if you suffer with any of the above problems you don't want to first make your way there, then, make your way to your seat through the crowds.

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 11:33, Big C said:

It's smacks of the man who had threes wishes then wished for three more. We have a nice updated stadium but in crowds of almost 20k you can't please everyone. It's a concourse not a pub, if we had seats would people then be requesting pool tables dart boards or log fires? No other concourse (except maybe Liverpool) have seating. Wembley or the Principality Stadium with wide open concourses do not have seating. I sympathise with those who have problems with standing I have back issues myself and therefore unable to stand for any length of time but there are places around the ground where I can sit. It's not like the concourses are struggling for customers there are people on other threads stating how long it's takes to get served. Are the concourse really that fantastic that people who are unable to stand feel that they are missing out?

Bit simplistic, we're talking basic human requirements here, try getting my brother in law to sit down on a little ledge, let alone get him up from it. Obviously you can't please everyone and you are correct, it's not like the concourses are struggling for customers. I wonder what the stance would be if they were and, there will come a time, hopefully not soon, when they will struggle.

If Liverpool have met the planning criteria for seating in their concourse, I'm sure we could, given the space available in the Dolman concourse alone. So, if we meet the criteria, give me a good reason in your opinion, why we should not allocate an area,  where seating can be provided for people who are less fortunate than others?

 

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Below is an excerpt from the access to stadium guide for the disabled. It also covers ambulant disabled, which relates to people I have referred to. These represent the greater number of people who are classed as disabled, disabled people amount to twenty percent of the population. We have an ageing population and as such, this group of ambulant disabled person will increase in numbers. I'm not sure the concourse would be classed as a restaurant or bar, possibly not, but, we certainly have bar areas within the concourses. The last sentence seems to suggest that some seating should be available for ambulant disabled people.

 

 

:2.31 Restaurants and Bar Areas
Standards and requirements for accessibility to restaurants and bar areas are given in BS 8300 Chapter11‘Assembly Areas’ and Part M Section 4. Reference should also be made to Section 1.13 of this publication and to the needs of people with impaired vision.
All bars and service counters should be designed so that they can be reached and used by all people including wheelchair users. The accessible part of the working surface of a bars should be at a level of not more than 850mm from the floor with a clear space beneath at least 700mm above the floor. This can be achieved by providing level access and removable seating, or no seating at all, to accommodate the wheelchair users.
Table legs or bases should be set in from the table edge to allow for the approach of wheelchair users. A proportion of seats with armrests, or other aids to sitting and rising, should be included for ambulant disabled people.
 

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8 minutes ago, Rich said:

Should anyone wish to read the guide. If you have a few hours.

http://www.levelplayingfield.org.uk/sites/default/files/contentfiles/accessible_stadia_guide.pdf

Its a bit long as Rich alludes to... (over 100pages) so I suggest anyone wishing to read it should first......

Take a *seat and make yourself comfortable!!!

*(ironic pun intended ;)  ) ..... but until the laws on concourse seating (in reasonable areas,) are reviewed and revised using common sense then in this case the law will remain an absolute Ass!!! 

*If the above is not possible (through sheer bloody mindedness) how about revising the law regarding drinking in sight of the pitch to allow disabled people/carers in designated stadium areas to order drinks that are brought and served to them in their seats?  (hmm, fat chance of that happening but why not eh?  not hard to maintain security with a steward or two on duty in the area after all)... Besides it would be far too civilised for football supporters wouldn't it?

 

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6 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

Its a bit long as Rich alludes to... (over 100pages) so I suggest anyone wishing to read it should first......

Take a *seat and make yourself comfortable!!!

*(ironic pun intended ;)  ) ..... but until the laws on concourse seating (in reasonable areas,) are reviewed and revised using common sense then in this case the law will remain an absolute Ass!!! 

*If the above is not possible (through sheer bloody mindedness) how about revising the law regarding drinking in sight of the pitch to allow disabled people/carers in designated stadium areas to order drinks that are brought and served to them in their seats?  (hmm, fat chance of that happening but why not eh?  not hard to maintain security with a steward or two on duty in the area after all)... Besides it would be far too civilised for football supporters wouldn't it?

 

Seems as if it is covered under this good practice guide.

"A proportion of seats with armrests, or other aids to sitting and rising, should be included for ambulant disabled people".

 

 
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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 03:56, Fodbarmyarmy said:

I dont think i can recall any of the away concourse areas ive been to with seating?

Certainly not Newcastle cuz i bloody needed it after that climb...

Most have ledges to put glasses on but not seats....

If you want to sit i guess you go to a lounge?

 

Currently, the only bar available to Joe public is the Sports bar. If you have mobility problems, that's the last place you want to be before the match and then try and make your way to your seat.

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Ok, a week has passed since this topic was on page one, sorry if it bores some of you folks.

There is a chance for @Mkelly to put this to bed.

So, we've established that LFC have installed seating in part of their concourse area. So is it against the law.                         https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=nS0b1alK&id=A71D017BAAF6CCF489172F3032CDB4271B303BA1&thid=OIP.nS0b1alK604pXfTKlKGV8QEsCc&q=liverpool+concourse+seating&simid=608036288488344891&selectedindex=8&mode=overlay&first=1

We've established that there are seats which meet planning building regulation requirements.

There are recommendations for ambulant seating in bar areas, in the accessible stadium guide, as previously posted.

We've established that areas within the Dolman concourse would be suitable for seating, without any chance whatsoever of causing an obstruction. 

We've established that it's not a matter of cost, (statement by Mark).

So the question is still the same. Can we have some seating in the concourses, for those less able?

I note from the pictures that LFC have actually put some shelves in for their supporters comfort as well, something our supporters are waiting to enjoy, two years plus after opening. They could even put double shelves into the recesses of the upright RSJs, they wouldn't protrude at all and would hold three pints per shelf, so four per RSJ, of which there are twelve in the South Stand. 144 pints worth of shelving, not protruding and very little cost.

 

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It's almost as if the fans/customers can't be allowed to 'win' with their outrageous demands. The Club dictates what goes on in the stadium, not the great unwashed. They're so entrenched now, there's no back-tracking.

So let's help them.

 

Dear Stadium Manager.

We really don't want any tables/shelves. We're much happier with your pie and pint offers, to balance our pints on our heads while munching our meat pie. We also don't want any seats as we think it's best the elderly/infirm stand until they collapse in a heap on the floor.

Yours Truly. 

 

There we go. Now you watch the furniture go in. 

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41 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

It's almost as if the fans/customers can't be allowed to 'win' with their outrageous demands. The Club dictates what goes on in the stadium, not the great unwashed. They're so entrenched now, there's no back-tracking.

So let's help them.

 

Dear Stadium Manager.

We really don't want any tables/shelves. We're much happier with your pie and pint offers, to balance our pints on our heads while munching our meat pie. We also don't want any seats as we think it's best the elderly/infirm stand until they collapse in a heap on the floor.

Yours Truly. 

 

There we go. Now you watch the furniture go in. 

We are only unwashed because of the bloody cold hand dryers.

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Although our bins are nice and new plastic ones, and I'm sure they get wiped down with a hygienic wipe if not pressure washed after each game(????) it really upsets me to see people being forced to use them as tables for food and drink, would you eat your pie and drink your pint stood at a rubbish bin Mr Kelly, truthfully? @Mkelly

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On 23/09/2017 at 11:33, Big C said:

It's smacks of the man who had threes wishes then wished for three more. We have a nice updated stadium but in crowds of almost 20k you can't please everyone. It's a concourse not a pub, if we had seats would people then be requesting pool tables dart boards or log fires? No other concourse (except maybe Liverpool) have seating. Wembley or the Principality Stadium with wide open concourses do not have seating. I sympathise with those who have problems with standing I have back issues myself and therefore unable to stand for any length of time but there are places around the ground where I can sit. It's not like the concourses are struggling for customers there are people on other threads stating how long it's takes to get served. Are the concourse really that fantastic that people who are unable to stand feel that they are missing out?

Wembley most definitely does have seating in the concourses. My last visit was less than 4 months ago.

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Having spoken with one more wise than myself, he suggested that the reluctance to install seating and shelving within the concourses, might be, because of the adverse effect it could possibly have on those areas versatility and the aesthetics, when holding conferences/exhibitions. I understand this to a point and perhaps that's why they are considering using folding chairs. If this is the case, why don't they just say that?   I cannot for the life of me see how drop down seating in the recessed areas, especially in the Dolman, could impair the use of the concourse for events. And if it were aesthetically unpleasant to the eye, cover them up, or just put bench seating in the recesses. Same goes for shelving, put it in the recesses.

The wise one suggested that if the capacity within the South Stand concourse was an issue, perhaps the mezzanine floor from the original plan could be reinstated for extra capacity, costly perhaps but, it could be linked to the upper level of the sports bar for the services. Or even better, put the "City bar", which was planned for the Atyeo up there, accessed from the South Stand after games.

While we're at it, there is an area between the South and Lansdown stands which could be used for a small seating area, somewhat like a small version of the Liverpool one, there are two doors at each end, one is a cleaners cupboard, I think the other one is where DollyMarie keeps Aden Flint after games. 

I love spending other peoples money.

 

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