Tyreeq Bakinson

[spudski]

40 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I'm yet to be convinced that LJ's judgement on these things can be trusted. He's spent a relatively large amount on young players. None of them has really made an impact on the first team so far.

We don't seem to have a head scout as many have pointed out. LJ himself keeps dropping hints about the good young players he brought through at Barnsley that went for big money. I somehow doubt that was down to him. They were also all first team regulars - none of ours are yet.

Hope this guy turns out to be mint. Hinds does look promising but only had a few cup appearances to go by. I like the strategy but would be happier if recruitment was guided by someone with proven ability for talent spotting.

GJ's uncle found Ian Wright....imagine the melt down if we employed him :laugh:

A guy who worked as an Ice Cream Van driver/seller spotted Ryan gigs.

What is 'proven ability' in talent spotting? So many variables.

There are lads on here who scout and talent spot. No 'proven ability'....but they have found players in the lower leagues, shared their information with this club and others...ingored by some...but many of those players have gone on and become excellent league players.

You don't need a 'qualification' on paper...just experience and knowledge....and a certain eye that not everyone has.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

ave been "talking him down" and "trying to hold him back" for good reasons. Just trying to keep his feet on the ground and ensure that he continues learning/improving without too much attention to distract him?

If there is something a bit special in him as a footballer, then it is also understandable why LJ is sounding a bit excited. Without trying to compare Bakinson with any other as I've not seen or heard of him before, perhaps Karl Robinson felt the same when he saw Dele Ali at 16.

But if he has that sort of potential, why haven't the big Premier clubs been in the hunt?

1

are we not a big Premiership club? ........................in waiting 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

24 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

How we chuckled last season when LJ said he could be a £5m player.......turns out he did know what he was talking about!

sorry but it been obvious to any one with any sense of football that Reid has shown a great ability since he was first at the club ......... wake up

[Hampshire reds]

Be interesting to see how the new boys get on next week in a under 23 fixtures v Crewe if selected. 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Luton could have been "talking him down" and "trying to hold him back" for good reasons. Just trying to keep his feet on the ground and ensure that he continues learning/improving without too much attention to distract him?

If there is something a bit special in him as a footballer, then it is also understandable why LJ is sounding a bit excited. Without trying to compare Bakinson with any other as I've not seen or heard of him before, perhaps Karl Robinson felt the same when he saw Dele Ali at 16.

But if he has that sort of potential, why haven't the big Premier clubs been in the hunt?

Maybe they have, which is why he was fairly costly for that level of player.

Sounds like we spent circa 650-700k on Holden and Bakinson which is a fair amount. I think all our other u23/development signings have been frees, tribunals or small fees.

[Dolman_Stand]

6 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

sorry but it been obvious to any one with any sense of football that Reid has shown a great ability since he was first at the club ......... wake up

Has it?

I can't remember him being picked regularly by Cotterill, McInnes, O'Driscoll in either midfield or as a forward, nor can I recall there being a massive demand on ths forum for him to play every week let alone that he could be sold for that sum of money, in fact before the start of this season the general feeling was that he hasn't ever nailed down a spot and that perhaps League 1 may be his level.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Has it?

I can't remember him being picked regularly by Cotterill, McInnes, O'Driscoll in either midfield or as a forward, nor can I recall there being a massive demand on ths forum for him to play every week let alone that he could be sold for that sum of money, in fact before the start of this season the general feeling was that he hasn't ever nailed down a spot and that perhaps League 1 may be his level.

Played quite a lot under SO'D if I remember correctly.

I think something that often gets overlooked is the amount of managers he's survived. He's been around under GJ, Coppell, Millen, Del, S'OD, Cotterill, and now LJ. None of them got rid of him.

That indicates to me that he clearly has something. 7 different pairs of eyes and footballing opinions have kept him here.

We're so quick to write players off in this country, footballers - both as players and as people - mature at different rates. Bobby's size means there would be a temptation to replace him with a bigger player in such a combative league.

[robin_unreliant]

47 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Brownhill has made an impact since he joined

Tammy made an impact last year I'd say....

Magnússon looked good until Bailey Wright came in

O'Dowda has performed well in flashes and has been around the first team since he joined

Hinds has made an impact in the cup this year

Reid has come on leaps and bounds since LJ came in

To say none of the young players LJ has bought in have made an impact is a very weird statement to make imo

I think your list speaks for itself. Only Brownhill is currently a regular starter. Tammy was well known as one of the hottest young prospects around.  Reid wasn't recruited by LJ. COD has only really been a sub and the jury is still out on him I would suggest. You've conveniently left out a lot of others too. 

[pongo88]

2 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Hegeler and O'Neil replacement 

Cor blimey - if he can take the place of two players in the team he must be good. On a more serious note, I'm not getting too carried away at the moment. LJ seems to have a scatter gun approach to signing players, on the basis that if you sign sufficient at least one or two will come good. Bakinson may develop into a good player, but let's  give it a year or two before making any judgement. 

[City Ben]

3 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

LJ seems to have a scatter gun approach to signing players, on the basis that if you sign sufficient at least one or two will come good. 

Just to pick up on this bit - I don't disagree, and I also don't think that's a problem.

These are low risk signings and you only need a few to make it and you're laughing. Not all youth signings are going to make it to our first team, and that's completely OK. 

[Phileas Fogg]

 

Quote

Tammy was well known as one of the hottest young prospects around.

Bar a couple of token sub appearances for Chelsea he hadn't played men's football. It's a totally different proposition to youth level. You've got to give LJ and the management team/scouting credit for how we identified him, secured him and got the best out of him.

Quote

Reid wasn't recruited by LJ.

Showing his career best form in a position no-one had tried him in though. If we sold him right now, I doubt it would be for less than £5m. Early days, but looks to have really improved. Again, credit has to go to the current management team/coaching for that.

Quote

COD has only really been a sub and the jury is still out on him I would suggest.

Agree there - but he's still here, still being selected by Ireland and a young player. Plenty of time for him.

Quote

You've conveniently left out a lot of others too. 

None have left the club yet though so it's impossible to say definitively that they've failed as transfers - I assume you're referring to Moore, Engvall etc

[Nogbad the Bad]

43 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

sorry but it been obvious to any one with any sense of football that Reid has shown a great ability since he was first at the club ......... wake up

No one ever doubted Reid's natural ability.

It was his application, stamina, lack of all round midfield game, his awful finishing, and his inability to really make his mark on the first team 5-6 years after his debut that made a free transfer or low fee departure seem a far a more likely eventual outcome than a 5m player.

Looks like he worked on his stamina, and physique, while training away from the club in the Summer, and the transformation, along with an unexpected change of position, appears to have worked wonders. At least for now.

5m. player in the making though? If he keeps up something like his early season scoring rate for the next year or so, then January window '19 you never know.

[slartibartfast]

2 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Be under no illusions. Luton were absolutely desperate to keep this lad. But he refused to sign a new contract; and him and his family indicated that they wanted to go.

Bakinson is very highly rated at Luton and was the man of the match in the recent checkatrade game against spurs  u23s that Luton won on pens.

A lot of Lutons youngsters get snapped up in the past by the likes of Norwich and Chelsea. We have of course taken a chance on him developing as everyone hopes he will, but I think like Hinds it was a risk worth taking.

Giving an 18 year old with no league experience a 4 year contract is also a major indication of belief, and was probably done to ward off other suitors as well.

They were not happy at all.....kept mentioning "his dad"  (shades of Zac Clough)

must have paid a LOT !

https://www.lutontown.co.uk/news/2017/august/tyreeq-bakinson/

[BobBobSuperBob]

50 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Maybe they have, which is why he was fairly costly for that level of player.

Sounds like we spent circa 650-700k on Holden and Bakinson which is a fair amount. I think all our other u23/development signings have been frees, tribunals or small fees.

We've obviously paid a fair fee , certainly for Bakinson going by comments from either end

where are you getting those figures from PF out of interest

(Initial reaction is 'blimey' for two 'punts' on youngsters , then I think if just one out of six type players makes First Team - there's a good chance you've recouped your outlay(s) -   )

[spudski]

I think one of the biggest selling points this club has now, is it's 'pathway' to the first team.

Wasn't so in the past.

How many young players can now see that you can earn big money playing reserve football for a Prem side, but have very little chance of making the first team.

Not all are money grabbers. It seems certain types, fir OUR 'DNA'...young 'HUNGRY' players....wanting to prove themselves, and not just for the money.

It takes a certain type to be like that.

Hence people mentioning how intelligent and eloquent in interviews our new signings seem to be in interviews.

Tomlin was the last one we've signed, that seemed to come across a bit 'dim'.

It also seems the families of these players have been 'scouted' as well....finding out about their background.

Imagine being someone like Holden and Bakinson, watching the likes of young Kelly destroy Watford on the telly box recently...and Bobby being top scorer in the league.

That would certainly influence your decision if you had a wise head on young shoulders.

On a side note....anyone else notice from Twitter posts, how many of our younger players seem 'Religious'...or 'Spiritual'...

Regardless of your thoughts on that....it shows a certain personality that thinks outside the 'stereotypical' footballers box.

ie Rooney....he only knows two box's....the 18 yard, and one that belongs to someone else other than his missus it seems :laugh:

 

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We've obviously paid a fair fee , certainly for Bakinson going by comments from either end

where are you getting those figures from PF out of interest

(Initial reaction is 'blimey' for two 'punts' on youngsters , then I think if just one out of six type players makes First Team - there's a good chance you've recouped your outlay(s) -   )

I believe it was around £500k for Bakinson and £150k for Holden.

It came from someone reliable but can't remember whether that was on here, Twitter or the press! Too much media consumed over deadline day!

Feels high when this time 10 years ago we paid £1m for Trundle! Wonder what we'd have spent on him if that transfer happened in 2017? £2-3m I reckon.

You're right though - only takes 1 or 2 to come off. I think we must really rate these guys to spend that outlay on development players. Don't think we did that last season.

[pillred]

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Luton could have been "talking him down" and "trying to hold him back" for good reasons. Just trying to keep his feet on the ground and ensure that he continues learning/improving without too much attention to distract him?

If there is something a bit special in him as a footballer, then it is also understandable why LJ is sounding a bit excited. Without trying to compare Bakinson with any other as I've not seen or heard of him before, perhaps Karl Robinson felt the same when he saw Dele Ali at 16.

But if he has that sort of potential, why haven't the big Premier clubs been in the hunt?

wasn't vardy only picked up late, some players can slip under the radar and prem clubs all seem to want instant success these days.

[steviestevieneville]

43 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Cor blimey - if he can take the place of two players in the team he must be good. On a more serious note, I'm not getting too carried away at the moment. LJ seems to have a scatter gun approach to signing players, on the basis that if you sign sufficient at least one or two will come good. Bakinson may develop into a good player, but let's  give it a year or two before making any judgement. 

Agree that they need to be given a few years to develop but scatter gun I don't believe. These players seem to be scouted  for a very long time before we sign them 

[Xiled]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

....When you have the likes of a lump and experienced Pro like Pisano in a crumpled heap in the changing room repeating 'so fast, it's so fast'...then it drives this home.

Was that reported in one form or another?  I would very interested to read someone like Pisano's views purely because of his experiences in Italy.

It's very difficult to gauge the actual level of Championship football.  The only thing that makes me think we're in danger of overplaying the physicality idea is that League 1 sides generally cope after promotion and the sides that leave for the Premier League don't deal with the speed/skill adjustment (yo-yo clubs).  Neither observation rules out the Championship being a very physical league but isn't it just the appropriate mix of League 1 thuggery and Premiership skill?

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Xiled said:

Was that reported in one form or another?  I would very interested to read someone like Pisano's views purely because of his experiences in Italy.

It's very difficult to gauge the actual level of Championship football.  The only thing that makes me think we're in danger of overplaying the physicality idea is that League 1 sides generally cope after promotion and the sides that leave for the Premier League don't deal with the speed/skill adjustment (yo-yo clubs).  Neither observation rules out the Championship being a very physical league but isn't it just the appropriate mix of League 1 thuggery and Premiership skill?

Yes it was mate... Quoted on the main site in an interview. 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Xiled said:

Was that reported in one form or another?  I would very interested to read someone like Pisano's views purely because of his experiences in Italy.

It's very difficult to gauge the actual level of Championship football.  The only thing that makes me think we're in danger of overplaying the physicality idea is that League 1 sides generally cope after promotion and the sides that leave for the Premier League don't deal with the speed/skill adjustment (yo-yo clubs).  Neither observation rules out the Championship being a very physical league but isn't it just the appropriate mix of League 1 thuggery and Premiership skill?

and it was after the Brentford game. We it found very difficult to deal with the pace and harrying of Brentford.

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Bobby Reid is only just now making an impact on the first team after how many years? There's a great many people other than LJ involved in identifying and procuring these players. 

 

Unfortunately,  that tells you more about the management here than it does Bob. 

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

GJ's uncle found Ian Wright....imagine the melt down if we employed him

A guy who worked as an Ice Cream Van driver/seller spotted Ryan gigs.

Ah, but how many 99s did Giggs go on to sell?

Would there be melt down if we employed the Ice Cream Van Driver/Seller?

 

[Redtucks]

4 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

I can't remember him being picked regularly by Cotterill, McInnes, O'Driscoll in either midfield or as a forward,

So maybe it was them who were clueless rather than LJ???

 

[JBFC II]

7 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I think your list speaks for itself. Only Brownhill is currently a regular starter. Tammy was well known as one of the hottest young prospects around.  Reid wasn't recruited by LJ. COD has only really been a sub and the jury is still out on him I would suggest. You've conveniently left out a lot of others too. 

I left out engvall because he hasn't made an impact I agree, but he's still 21 so he has plenty of time to get into the first team, bar him though I can't think of any other youngsters who I could have 'conveniently left out....' 

[Nogbad the Bad]

7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Showing his career best form in a position no-one had tried him in though. If we sold him right now, I doubt it would be for less than £5m. Early days, but looks to have really improved. Again, credit has to go to the current management team/coaching for that.

We wouldn't sell BR right now because there would be no big offers.

He's doing very well in the very short term, absolutely no disputing that, and people will no doubt be sitting up and taking notice, but they'll also be aware of his overall career record of just 14 league goals.

As things stand he's not an established goalscorer, and he's proven not to be a consistent Championship quality midfield player.

As I said above he'd need to show this sort of form as a goalscorer over a much longer period to attract substantial interest. 

IF he continues to play regularly and ends up with say 14-16 goals this season, AND he continues that form into next season there may well be interest.

Until then talk of a valuation in the millions for Bobby Reid - let alone 5m - is well over the top imo.

 

 

[GrahamC]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

LJ did mention everything said in the above posts....but he did also say, that he also had physical capabilities to grow....and he kept repeating that development football is nothing like men's football as he put it.

They obviously see all the natural capabilities, technical capabilities, and the potential to grow, become stronger etc.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him developed a little here, then loaned out.

It's a pattern that's developing at this Club.

Develop then loan out.

The difference in U23's footy and League (Men's) football, is massive. Especially jumping up into the Championship. For a footballer...it's probably the toughest physical League in the World. Consider how many leagues there are in the world. It's considered the toughest by the Pros. When you have the likes of a lump and experienced Pro like Pisano in a crumpled heap in the changing room repeating 'so fast, it's so fast'...then it drives this home.

I really do feel, some of our fans haven't grasped exactly how difficult this league is. The toughest physically in the world.

 

To me it is a combination of two different factors.

Firstly, whilst very many sides at our level do largely try to get it down & play, I'd be amazed if he had ever faced anything like the relentless long ball, kick it into the channels and chase after it stuff that Millwall played for 90 minutes before (Bolton do too, apparently and PNE to a certain extent).

The amount of wrestling, blocking and physical contact that went on all game against them (not just at set pieces) was I'm sure, a revelation to him too.

Secondly the season started on August 5th, but by the end of the month we had already played seven times, I know Pisano has had rests for the cup games but in Italy they wouldn't have played any more than 4 times in that period, so the relentless nine months of "play, train, play again three days later" culture will be totally alien to him (and also to Diedhiou).

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We wouldn't sell BR right now because there would be no big offers.

He's doing very well in the very short term, absolutely no disputing that, and people will no doubt be sitting up and taking notice, but they'll also be aware of his overall career record of just 14 league goals.

As things stand he's not an established goalscorer, and he's proven not to be a consistent Championship quality midfield player.

As I said above he'd need to show this sort of form as a goalscorer over a much longer period to attract substantial interest. 

IF he continues to play regularly and ends up with say 14-16 goals this season, AND he continues that form into next season there may well be interest.

Until then talk of a valuation in the millions for Bobby Reid - let alone 5m - is well over the top imo.

 

 

I think if there was a transfer window now, our valuation of him would be in excess of 5m. We probably have a valuation for all of our players.

All a guessing game on here, but given the current market that's what I think.

 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

To me it is a combination of two different factors.

Firstly, whilst very many sides at our level do largely try to get it down & play, I'd be amazed if he had ever faced anything like the relentless long ball, kick it into the channels and chase after it stuff that Millwall played for 90 minutes before (Bolton do too, apparently and PNE to a certain extent).

The amount of wrestling, blocking and physical contact that went on all game against them (not just at set pieces) was I'm sure, a revelation to him too.

Secondly the season started on August 5th, but by the end of the month we had already played seven times, I know Pisano has had rests for the cup games but in Italy they wouldn't have played any more than 4 times in that period, so the relentless nine months of "play, train, play again three days later" culture will be totally alien to him (and also to Diedhiou).

As it was for Hörður Magnússon last season.

[Super]

19 hours ago, pride of the west said:

LJ said a mix of viera and Elliott in the bcfc TV interview today. He also said that this lad wasn't cheap and seemed to make a real point of it rather than a throw away comment. 

I think they've seen something very special in this lad as he said he's been tracking him for a year. In Bakinson's interview I think he also said that we've been putting bids in all summer. 

Sure the same kind of praise was labelled at Jordan Wynter