Spain?

[stephenkibby.]

After our performance last night are Spain playing a different sport?

It was scary to watch. mainly the way players are prepared to except the ball in and around there own third of the pitch.

Then when they receive the ball, being closed down is no problem.

The confidence to not welt the ball forward while under pressure is a joy to watch. The movement off the ball is there for all to see.

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ?

[Cowshed]

6 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

After our performance last night are Spain playing a different sport?

It was scary to watch. mainly the way players are prepared to except the ball in and around there own third of the pitch.

Then when they receive the ball, being closed down is no problem.

The confidence to not welt the ball forward while under pressure is a joy to watch. The movement off the ball is there for all to see.

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ?

After our performance last night are Spain playing a different sport?  To a degree yes. Their training methodology and philosophy is different so the football is self explanatory.

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ? No, but in the future things may be different. Kids in this country in the foundation stages are now often trained in more enlightened manners and displaying very high technical levels.

[BCFC Rich]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ? No

Or another way to look at that is would anyone in there squad not be our best player? 

[joe jordans teeth]

16 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

After our performance last night are Spain playing a different sport?

It was scary to watch. mainly the way players are prepared to except the ball in and around there own third of the pitch.

Then when they receive the ball, being closed down is no problem.

The confidence to not welt the ball forward while under pressure is a joy to watch. The movement off the ball is there for all to see.

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ?

All depends,last 2 tournaments they have done as bad as us

[Mr Popodopolous]

Italy set up badly but no doubt Spain were excellent, all so comfortable. Italy had a naive formation though but Spain would surely have won regardless.

I also think Spain are revitalised...bad two tournaments but they definitely look on the rise again.

4-3-3 seems to suit them a lot more than 4-2-3-1 too IMO..Formation of future generally too I think, 4-3-3. Prefer it to 4-2-3-1 anyway myself.

[Portland Bill]

Here's a stat, last weekend, out of the 44 players who started for Man Utd,Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool, 4 were English. 

How long before it's nil. 

[joe jordans teeth]

6 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Here's a stat, last weekend, out of the 44 players who started for Man Utd,Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool, 4 were English. 

How long before it's nil. 

Not long and most really couldn't care less,if it meant city were successful and we had no English players would we really care. International football is basically 4 weeks every 2 years,club before country 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting point made by @joe jordans teeth

International football is I think more popular than the English press would have us believe..insularity about it and indifference towards it is a fairly English phenomenon I reckon.

Goes for most nations too, big and small I suspect. Club over country is probably pretty universal but the apathy and antipathy about international break in England is fairly distinctive I believe.

[Roger Red Hat]

I thought Spain were fantastic, great to watch, some of the best football I've seen for some time. On their way back to the top I think.

[The turtle]

Even at youth level of the club sides (can pick up a lot of kid games on spanish tv) you watch players make passes into tight problem areas, no problem.

And more so, that pass is expected, and the player knows what he has to do when he does receive the ball.

 

And if they get it wrong they just keep going it.

[Bar BS3]

Let's not forget, either, that they were performing against Italy. We were struggling against Malta! 

[Trueredsupporter]

9 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Not long and most really couldn't care less,if it meant city were successful and we had no English players would we really care. International football is basically 4 weeks every 2 years,club before country 

Would you? Sure Steve Lansdown would .All that effort from City and Bristol Sport ending in a team of South Americans!!!

[Robbored]

England are essentially way too conservative and have been ever since Bobby Robson was the main man. 

As both an Englishman and a football fan I feel I have to watch England whenever they play and I always expect to see something different but the first half against Malta was just as it's been for 20+ years - dreadfully boring..............

No idea how to break down a team intent on defending and England only won the game after Malta had tired in the last few mins.

With the FA man, Mr Dull in charge it won't get any better.........

[One BCFC]

That is all ok from Spain on their own turf but when Italy or Germany get to the tournaments they are a different animal completely. Euro 2016 prime example of Italy, who beat Spain 2-0.

England simply are not on any of those sides level and I fear the golden generation was really our last hope to win anything. 

Also, look at how bad the Netherlands are now, sad to see

[North London Red]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting point made by @joe jordans teeth

International football is I think more popular than the English press would have us believe..insularity about it and indifference towards it is a fairly English phenomenon I reckon.

Goes for most nations too, big and small I suspect. Club over country is probably pretty universal but the apathy and antipathy about international break in England is fairly distinctive I believe.

Not sure I agree that the English are indifferent to international football. Tomorrow night at Wembley we will play Slovakia in front of an attendance that no other country in Europe would get close to if they were playing Slovakia. Given the slim pickings we've endured in recent years (and given how turgid many of our performances have been in that time, reaching a nadir on Friday in Ta Qali), I'd say the support and interest has been nothing short of exceptional. There was a statistic a few years ago that the only national team who were close to England in terms of average attendances at home international games was Iran; not sure if that's still true, and I'd guess that the US are probably getting close, given football's increasing popularity stateside. 

Anyway...currently enjoying the last of the Maltese sunshine before flying back to London later today. As has often been the case...the match was the worst 90 minutes of the trip  

 

[steveybadger]

10 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

All depends,last 2 tournaments they have done as bad as us

Difference being that Spain was a shock

[KeepUpLino]

The moment The FA appointed Southgate after the 'Woy' debacle' England were dead to me... Bring back the 90's

[Cowshed]

20 minutes ago, Robbored said:

England are essentially way too conservative and have been ever since Bobby Robson was the main man. 

As both an Englishman and a football fan I feel I have to watch England whenever they play and I always expect to see something different but the first half against Malta was just as it's been for 20+ years - dreadfully boring..............

No idea how to break down a team intent on defending and England only won the game after Malta had tired in the last few mins.

With the FA man, Mr Dull in charge it won't get any better.........

I would politely suggest what Southgate is attempting with meagre means is different to what Graham Taylor did.

England were guilty in the last of being too radical. The great Forest and Liverpool teams played to feet, through the thirds and England and the FA? The FA ignored what underpinned that success and pursued the long  ball and pomo via the FA's blue print for football went into schools and junior clubs, everywhere.. Europe went down the route of possession based football and England put it in the mixer. Stats based pomo football was highly radical and a failure.

Decades on the damage is still evident. On this forum, on touchlines with parents, in boardrooms and still in coaching playing to feet, keeping the ball is still looked upon as being wrong by too many.

With the FA man, Mr Dull in charge it won't get any better ... He is no Mr Dull, has has little to work with but underneath there are are massive changes, maybe not enough but we should see kids and players in future with wider ability.

[steveybadger]

10 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Here's a stat, last weekend, out of the 44 players who started for Man Utd,Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool, 4 were English. 

How long before it's nil. 

And that's as it should be if they aren't good enough. The point is that if they are, and the coaching is also good then they have chance of playing. I'm not sure (all) the bigger clubs are risk averse in picking young players. As a previous poster alluded too, at least the way kids are coached seems to be improving; now we just need more coaches....

[Malago]

What was great about their performance was they attacked at pace.  None of the tippy tappy Barca approach.   They played quickly with a high level of technical ability.  A winning formula at any level.

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, North London Red said:

Not sure I agree that the English are indifferent to international football. Tomorrow night at Wembley we will play Slovakia in front of an attendance that no other country in Europe would get close to if they were playing Slovakia. Given the slim pickings we've endured in recent years (and given how turgid many of our performances have been in that time, reaching a nadir on Friday in Ta Qali), I'd say the support and interest has been nothing short of exceptional. There was a statistic a few years ago that the only national team who were close to England in terms of average attendances at home international games was Iran; not sure if that's still true, and I'd guess that the US are probably getting close, given football's increasing popularity stateside. 

Anyway...currently enjoying the last of the Maltese sunshine before flying back to London later today. As has often been the case...the match was the worst 90 minutes of the trip  

 

OK, maybe I'm wrong.

The media seem to bang on. The numbers are great I do agree. Especially given the modest returns in recent years.

Just a perception as I say with the media, comments below the article on papers and the like, I just wonder.

Football itself... Would have been intriguing to see what Big Sam could have pulled off. Southgate may get us playing decent but sounds not from what you said! Enjoy the sun and the like.

Final thing for us, not only do we underwhelm in tournament's but in qualifying we always get drawn in uninspiring groups.

There are some very interesting and competitive groups...we don't tend to get any. Either a foregone conclusion or a group of minnows- why watch in many ways? Scotland games were good this time though!

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

10 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Not long and most really couldn't care less,if it meant city were successful and we had no English players would we really care. International football is basically 4 weeks every 2 years,club before country 

We ought to, even if we don't. Unlike the Premiership, where an Englishman is becoming a rarity, the majority of teams in La Liga, Serie A or the Bundesliga, despite the mandatory Brazilian, Argentinian or both, still have home nation players predominate. 

[North London Red]

42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

OK, maybe I'm wrong.

The media seem to bang on. The numbers are great I do agree. Especially given the modest returns in recent years.

Just a perception as I say with the media, comments below the article on papers and the like, I just wonder.

Football itself... Would have been intriguing to see what Big Sam could have pulled off. Southgate may get us playing decent but sounds not from what you said! Enjoy the sun and the like.

Final thing for us, not only do we underwhelm in tournament's but in qualifying we always get drawn in uninspiring groups.

There are some very interesting and competitive groups...we don't tend to get any. Either a foregone conclusion or a group of minnows- why watch in many ways? Scotland games were good this time though!

I think you're probably right in saying that the levels of enthusiasm from the wider public have declined in recent years, albeit the numbers turning up to games (home and away) remain impressive. But it always strikes me how many people post on forums or in the comments sections underneath online articles to say 'I really don't care any more after that awful performance', seemingly after every game - surely if people didn't care or had no interest at all, they wouldn't be posting in the first place?

If the team suddenly became much better and had a run to a semi final in a tournament (we live in hope rather than expectation, although the performance of the age group teams this summer does offer a glimmer of hope) then I think the latent levels of interest would very quickly become apparent. 

Totally agree too about our qualifying groups not exactly setting pulses racing, although we can only beat what's put in front of us (Poland, Switzerland, Croatia, Ukraine, Slovakia etc - not bad teams but we've managed to grind out wins against all of them, often beating the second seed early on in qualifying and therefore making qualification almost certain very early on. That said, I wouldn't completely rule out Slovakia upsetting the apple cart at Wembley tomorrow - at 10-1 with some bookmakers it might be worth an insurance bet). 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Malago said:

What was great about their performance was they attacked at pace.  None of the tippy tappy Barca approach.   They played quickly with a high level of technical ability.  A winning formula at any level.

Agreed.

As a Spanish side, they reminded me more of their Euro 2008 one as opposed to many of their games since.

As a neutral, I thought that was the most entertaining Spain side in 08 rather than some of the 2010, 2012 games.

[Always Believesham]

I actually agree with the point that fewer English players at the top level would be a good thing - or at least removing the home grown players stipulations

At the moment, if a player is among the best English players, he is considered elite - if only the very best (regardless of nationalisty) were being picked up, so much more work would go into developing English talent in England & the top foreign clubs would want our best players.

This would encourage a domestic game to be proud of it's national team and players proud to play for their country - at the moment there is no incentive at international level for players, its all about club before country. I disagree with the whole 'club before country' mentality because any club can buy a player, but only his country can select him for the national team. Pride in what you do and what you achieve means more than money to any human being.

It's a two way street though... I wonder what the relationship the Spanish, Italian & German national teams have with the clubs; I bet it's better than ours.

[swanker]

12 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

After our performance last night are Spain playing a different sport?

It was scary to watch. mainly the way players are prepared to except the ball in and around there own third of the pitch.

Then when they receive the ball, being closed down is no problem.

The confidence to not welt the ball forward while under pressure is a joy to watch. The movement off the ball is there for all to see.

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ?

Playing a different sport? Having watched millwall the other week, maybe so. 

[Bris Red]

12 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Not long and most really couldn't care less,if it meant city were successful and we had no English players would we really care. International football is basically 4 weeks every 2 years,club before country 

And this is exactly the kind of attitude that means we fail time and time again at international level. Hey aslong as the premier league the holy grail and be all and end all is brilliant who cares about English players coming through? 

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, solihull cider red said:

I actually agree with the point that fewer English players at the top level would be a good thing - or at least removing the home grown players stipulations

At the moment, if a player is among the best English players, he is considered elite - if only the very best (regardless of nationalisty) were being picked up, so much more work would go into developing English talent in England & the top foreign clubs would want our best players.

This would encourage a domestic game to be proud of it's national team and players proud to play for their country - at the moment there is no incentive at international level for players, its all about club before country. I disagree with the whole 'club before country' mentality because any club can buy a player, but only his country can select him for the national team. Pride in what you do and what you achieve means more than money to any human being.

It's a two way street though... I wonder what the relationship the Spanish, Italian & German national teams have with the clubs; I bet it's better than ours.

The German and Spanish leagues adhere to strategies where great prominence is attached to the national team. The national FA;s set strategies and targets which clubs nationwide follow.

In Spain clubs follow what is known as the fidelity concept the aim is to produce x amount of players per each league and team who are Spanish and of a high technical standard. That is a home grown quota that is encouraging/demanding and leading to Spanish clubs investing so much into creating Spanish talent. This is backed up by syllabuses for junior clubs and schools (from five upwards) to follow, and national standards through pro FC's.

In England we are nowhere near that standard and the EPL does not consider it necessary. The FA are impotent in the face of the EPL. The FA is attempting to mirror coaching philosophies in European nations, these will lead to improvement but they will always be held back by the EPL.

[BRISTOL86]

14 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

Anyway would any of our side get in theirs ?

No

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, bris red said:

And this is exactly the kind of attitude that means we fail time and time again at international level. Hey aslong as the premier league the holy grail and be all and end all is brilliant who cares about English players coming through? 

We were failing along time before Johnny Foreigner came along