When to accept your 5m striker is misfiring?

[WhistleHappy]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 22:28, Redtucks said:

Died 4 years ago.

 

Hi di hi ..... How'd he go?

[DaveF]

18 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Maybe....but city need a striker who can score 15-10 this season. City maybe very lucky that Reid might get enough with others chipping in. Something that many City fans would laugh at. Scoring goals will be a struggle it seems.

We've scored 11 goals in 7 matches... I'm yet to read a post from you that isn't utter bollocks.

[FNQ]

2 hours ago, DaveF said:

We've scored 11 goals in 7 matches... I'm yet to read a post from you that isn't utter bollocks.

Coincidentally we scored 11 in the first 7 matches last season too with Tammy and even Kodjia playing for a few games...  Worth mentioning that we've also scored 8 in 2 cup games this season as well, including 3 away from Home at Watford.

[DaveF]

3 hours ago, FNQ said:

Coincidentally we scored 11 in the first 7 matches last season too with Tammy and even Kodjia playing for a few games...  Worth mentioning that we've also scored 8 in 2 cup games this season as well, including 3 away from Home at Watford.

Scoring goals will be a struggle though... 

[old_eastender]

Certainly from the last two away matches, Diedhiou has been very poor. With only a few instances of him holding the ball up and bringing others into play, which he had done better in some of the earlier games. As we have all seen, he seems slow to react and particularly slow to accelerate from a standing start. None of this is what I was expecting from our record signing. It may be a question of getting used to the physicality and pace of the Championship, too soon to write him off but for me the signs are not encouraging that he will come good for us.

Would rather see Leko played centrally or Taylor bought in and Fammy dropped to the bench, but doubt LJ will drop him.

[And Its Smith]

It's got nothing to do with him being judged against Tammy or Kodjia. Sure everyone can see he is a different type of striker to both of those.  

He isn't quick, has poor control, can't win headers and misjudges balls forward so they go over his head.  He really has a long way to go.  Saying that, I can see why Johnson plays him as he won't learn this stuff in the reserves.  

[Johnr1986]

24 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Certainly from the last two away matches, Diedhiou has been very poor. With only a few instances of him holding the ball up and bringing others into play, which he had done better in some of the earlier games. As we have all seen, he seems slow to react and particularly slow to accelerate from a standing start. None of this is what I was expecting from our record signing. It may be a question of getting used to the physicality and pace of the Championship, too soon to write him off but for me the signs are not encouraging that he will come good for us.

Would rather see Leko played centrally or Taylor bought in and Fammy dropped to the bench, but doubt LJ will drop him.

I was at molineux on Tuesday and thought Diedhiou had a decent game, was busy and physical, showed cofindence in taking the ball off Leko for the pen and then to coolie slot in away , think it's a little ott than people are writing him off already when we as a team look far more solid and scoring plenty his partnership with bobby has definitely contributed to this . 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

21 hours ago, cheshire_red said:

Inly seen one match but he didn't read the game very well. Doesn't appear to have a football brain and yes he is a bit slow of mind and body.

Ah the old football brain theory.  Something that every fan seems to possess, but few footballers!

I wasn't at Molyneux on Tuesday night, but from the highlights on the City website there seems to be quite a lot of evidence of Diedhiou making some useful contributions, and ones that did require a brain (and some speed of thought too, by the look of it).  Much too early to write him off.  He is neither Tammy Abraham nor Jonathan Kodjia but he is leading the line in a team that doesn't seem to have any problem scoring goals.  That's fine by me.  Not sure why everyone expects 20+ goals from the number 9?  How often is it that the striker playing off the big man gets the goals?  If Diedhiou helps Bobby score 20+ this season, then I'll be delighted.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Ah the old football brain theory.  Something that every fan seems to possess, but few footballers!

I wasn't at Molyneux on Tuesday night, but from the highlights on the City website there seems to be quite a lot of evidence of Diedhiou making some useful contributions, and ones that did require a brain (and some speed of thought too, by the look of it).  Much too early to write him off.  He is neither Tammy Abraham nor Jonathan Kodjia but he is leading the line in a team that doesn't seem to have any problem scoring goals.  That's fine by me.  Not sure why everyone expects 20+ goals from the number 9?  How often is it that the striker playing off the big man gets the goals?  If Diedhiou helps Bobby score 20+ this season, then I'll be delighted.

Exactly. Also, the things he is in the team to do will all improve with experience and understanding.

Perhaps Wilbraham could've been a really useful mentor to have around for him.

[cheshire_red]

I still can't get my head around the fact Smith was available for circa £500k. Is Fammy a better player or better value for money or more Championship ready or likely to score more goals or able to hold the ball up better or significantly quicker or any number of other equations. 

The only difference I can spot is Smith may not have been a Marque signing. But he certainly wouldn't have been a gamble and £5.2n is a lot for a club of this size to gamble. Additionally signing Smith would have left a nice pot of money to sign a top quality midfielder

[GrahamC]

19 hours ago, REDOXO said:

 

Taylor is an excellent buy and hit the post for Reid's goal yesterday. His touch is decent and his positional play is good, why do I keep reading utter shit about this guy on multiple threads

if the jury is out about wastes of money then look at Đurić and keep your fingers crossed he gets over his latest injury crisis, but replace Fammy you must be joking with our current style.

Wow.

Taylor is actually unmarked on the six yard line and yet manages to still miss, hitting the post with his header with the whole of the goal to aim for.

Still, it will probably go down as his "assist"..

I really cannot agree with your view on his first touch, it is poor.

No argument re Đurić, his availability record must be a worry, it is woeful so far.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Wow.

Taylor is actually unmarked on the six yard line and yet manages to still miss, hitting the post with his header with the whole of the goal to aim for.

Still, it will probably go down as his "assist"..

I really cannot agree with your view on his first touch, it is poor.

No argument re Đurić, his availability record must be a worry, it is woeful so far.

Wow too. What a miss!  Didn't get the assist on Transfermarkt, then again Diedhiou didn't against Barnsley. 

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wow too. What a miss!  Didn't get the assist on Transfermarkt, then again Diedhiou didn't against Barnsley. 

As far as the stattos are concerned, if you hit the post, doesn't that just get recorded as a 'shot off target'?

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Wow.

Taylor is actually unmarked on the six yard line and yet manages to still miss, hitting the post with his header with the whole of the goal to aim for.

Still, it will probably go down as his "assist"..

I really cannot agree with your view on his first touch, it is poor.

No argument re Đurić, his availability record must be a worry, it is woeful so far.

He had to be there and all he could do was direct the ball goalward due to his height and angle which he did.  It lead to a goal. No probably about it Taylor's assist

Taylor was key in the run in last season making himself available and making telling passes, which led to goals. 

But  I guess the fact he was thrown on after an injury and being sidelined but finally making the bench suggests management have faith in him making something happen. Engval Đurić Hegeler GON ETC nowhere to be seen. 

I think we will be seeing a whole lot more of Taylor than those few in the coming months personally....

[BCFCGav]

We are getting results with him in the team and he gives defenders something to think about with his size. No point playing Woodrow since he ain't our asset long term. Continue to start him with Reid and see if he adapts some more IMHO.

[BCFC Jimmer]

He looked marginally better at Wolves that he did at Reading, so that's a positive.

[The Nest Egg]

1 hour ago, Collis1 said:

He looked marginally better at Wolves that he did at Reading, so that's a positive.

give it four more years at this rate and maybe he'll sneak in a solid 7 in my post match ratings! 

[WayOutWest]

I like him.  We have seen glimpses of what he can do.  Bobby Reid's goal at Birmingham city is an example.  He mugged Nsue not once, not twice but three times turning him inside out before lashing the ball against the post.

You like me thought bloody hell, what have we got here.... then Brentford happened.

Lets face it.  That was a night to forget in terms of performance. But we are not the same team as last year, and we ground out a draw.  This year we seem to have some steel about us, and it wouldn't be an injustice to credit Fam with some of this.

The game against Barnsley and Birmingham, he looked like he played with a bit more freedom.  Tactically I think LJ has asked him to start doing much more defending from the front and demanded a greater work rate.  In our high press energy game, he needs to get about the pitch much more when we don't have possession.  This is where questions are raised about his fitness.  He isnt quite there yet.  Couple that with the intensity of the Championship, Saturday/Tuesday, new country, language barrier and a new team mates, I think he is doing OK.

Looking from the outside in, he has a great attitude.  Probably trains hard.  Defenders will know they have been in a game with him. 

Forgetting the price tag for one moment, which to be fair has nothing to do with him. Lets look at who he has replaced.  If you think of him as Wilbrahams replacement instead of Tammy, then we have an upgrade for sure.

More to come from him and I bet Bobby Reid has nothing but praise for the fella.

Stevo

[pongo88]

On 13 September 2017 at 07:50, Phileas Fogg said:

If Famara keeps up his current (2 in 7) scoring record all season he'd get 13 goals.

Providing he keeps scoring from penalties. If you just consider goals scored from open play he will score 7 ish goals. That said, I don't beleive we should just extrapolate his current scoring rate. There have been plenty of players who have started poorly and got better and vice versa.

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Providing he keeps scoring from penalties. If you just consider goals scored from open play he will score 7 ish goals. That said, I don't beleive we should just extrapolate his current scoring rate. There have been plenty of players who have started poorly and got better and vice versa.

Doesn't really matter, penalties still have to be scored and are of as much value as 30 yard screamers in terms of the scoreline.

Besides, it was a direct reply to Thatch35 saying we don't have someone who will get between 10-15. 

[WayOutWest]

In the 11 goals scored this season, Fam has

Scored 2

Assisted 2 (Brentford - Brownhill) (Wolves - Flint)

Significant Contribution to goals 2 (my opinion). (Barnsley - Reid 1st goal) (Birmingham - Reid)

[Phileas Fogg]

8 hours ago, cheshire_red said:

I still can't get my head around the fact Smith was available for circa £500k. Is Fammy a better player or better value for money or more Championship ready or likely to score more goals or able to hold the ball up better or significantly quicker or any number of other equations. 

The only difference I can spot is Smith may not have been a Marque signing. But he certainly wouldn't have been a gamble and £5.2n is a lot for a club of this size to gamble. Additionally signing Smith would have left a nice pot of money to sign a top quality midfielder

If we didn't already have Đurić then maybe.. but he's a very different style to Diedhiou and there's no value in having another tall relatively immobile target man type when we already have Đurić.

[pongo88]

16 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Doesn't really matter, penalties still have to be scored and are of as much value as 30 yard screamers in terms of the scoreline.

Besides, it was a direct reply to Thatch35 saying we don't have someone who will get between 10-15. 

It does matter if Diedhiou was signed as a like for like, in terms of goals, replacement for Tammy. We need somebody who can score regularly from open play. This may be the new Bobby Reid (!!!). If Reid doesn't keep scoring it's got to be somebody else and, at present, that person doesn't seem to be the £5m man  

 

[REDOXO]

Why are people discounting penalties, like they are not quite goals.

Anyone that watched or listened to the game knows that when we got given it, it was a mass, who the hell is going to take it buzz. The centre forward stepped up and sent the keeper the wrong way while banging it so close to the corner the bloke would have got nowhere near it, had he guessed right.

No blazzing three miles over the top, or clattering the post which led to a sending off and a defeat or weak limp wristed save or smashing the cross bar...all of which we have seen recently...We have not had a pen taker since JET...now we have one people are moaning about it.....**** me!

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

It does matter if Diedhiou was signed as a like for like, in terms of goals, replacement for Tammy.

Don't think he was actually, LJ said as much when he signed.

13 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

We need somebody who can score regularly from open play. This may be the new Bobby Reid (!!!). If Reid doesn't keep scoring it's got to be somebody else and, at present, that person doesn't seem to be the £5m man  

 

Well at the moment it is Reid and he doesn't look like stopping. If he does, we've got Taylor and Woodrow to be our 'goal scoring forward' so to speak.

I think this team isn't designed to be ultra-reliant on a 20-25 goal striker. We've been spoilt with those for two seasons but you can't guarantee it. I think the plan is to try and get the midfield and supporting forwards to get more goals between them, and if one forward manages to be prolific then great.

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Why are people discounting penalties, like they are not quite goals.

Anyone that watched or listened to the game knows that when we got given it, it was a mass, who the hell is going to take it buzz. The centre forward stepped up and sent the keeper the wrong way while banging it so close to the corner the bloke would have got nowhere near it, had he guessed right.

No blazzing three miles over the top, or clattering the post which led to a sending off and a defeat or weak limp wristed save or smashing the cross bar...all of which we have seen recently...We have not had a pen taker since JET...now we have one people are moaning about it.....**** me!

Because you don't pay £5m for a player to just score penalties.  It's not like American football where they bring on a player just to take the kicks.  For £5m, which is admittedly cheapish by Championship standards, a forward should demonstrate some ability to score from open play and have a modicum of ball control.

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Because you don't pay £5m for a player to just score penalties.  It's not like American football where they bring on a player just to take the kicks.  For £5m, which is admittedly cheapish by Championship standards, a forward should demonstrate some ability to score from open play and have a modicum of ball control.

He hasn't 'just' scored penalties (please see earlier comments).

So. You are saying that we overpaid for a player (after 6 league games), who has started all games and is the first choice forward partner of the league's leading scorer and has scored from open play and from the spot (who else should have taken it?) 

Clearly implying that this player is substandard and we should have bought someone else with the equivalent money....I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Please speak for yourself, but that is how it sounds.

But many thanks for telling us it's not like American football where we "bring a player on for kicks" clearly implying that the player has contributed nothing in our games other than poor (modicum) ball control.

We defend from the front, the high press is the key, the guy is running his socks off because that is what he has been tasked to do and may well be why he was the player picked out as a signing....Lets see how many goals he gets later in the season, but if someone is getting them then its likely he is doing his job the way the manager is asking him to do it...He takes orders And he takes penalties....Reminds me of Lee Tomlin 

 

 

 

[pongo88]

22 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

He hasn't 'just' scored penalties (please see earlier comments).

So. You are saying that we overpaid for a player (after 6 league games), who has started all games and is the first choice forward partner of the league's leading scorer and has scored from open play and from the spot (who else should have taken it?) 

Clearly implying that this player is substandard and we should have bought someone else with the equivalent money....I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Please speak for yourself, but that is how it sounds.

But many thanks for telling us it's not like American football where we "bring a player on for kicks" clearly implying that the player has contributed nothing in our games other than poor (modicum) ball control.

We defend from the front, the high press is the key, the guy is running his socks off because that is what he has been tasked to do and may well be why he was the player picked out as a signing....Lets see how many goals he gets later in the season, but if someone is getting them then its likely he is doing his job the way the manager is asking him to do it...He takes orders And he takes penalties....Reminds me of Lee Tomlin 

 

 

 

I have spoken for myself - see numerous previous posts

[Davefevs]

Perhaps he's a good foil for Reid, but Reid isn't a good foil for him.  Perhaps he'll do more with Woodrow or Taylor or Leko?

He has contributed in the goals, assists, hockey assists / significant goal columns, but I think the general impression is that he's been (a bit) underwhelming.

We don't have to make our final judgement of him now, but we can of course measure his performance (game by game if we want) .  He's 24, strange country, 5th toughest league in the world (allegedly).

Also, for the Taylor fans, you are happy to accept 2 goals (assuming you're giving him the one v Leeds) 5 assists in 15 games.  Not dissimilar stats...but you're happy because he buzzes around, works hard.  He doesn't do much on the ball either, if that's the comparison...and of course he didn't cost £5m either.

I think we'll know much more by Xmas, and whether he's been good, bad or indifferent.  However if Reid has 15 goals at that point, that might factor into the equation.

Good debate though.

 

[BCFC Rich]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Perhaps he's a good foil for Reid, but Reid isn't a good foil for him.  Perhaps he'll do more with Woodrow or Taylor or Leko?

He has contributed in the goals, assists, hockey assists / significant goal columns, but I think the general impression is that he's been (a bit) underwhelming.

We don't have to make our final judgement of him now, but we can of course measure his performance (game by game if we want) .  He's 24, strange country, 5th toughest league in the world (allegedly).

Also, for the Taylor fans, you are happy to accept 2 goals (assuming you're giving him the one v Leeds) 5 assists in 15 games.  Not dissimilar stats...but you're happy because he buzzes around, works hard.  He doesn't do much on the ball either, if that's the comparison...and of course he didn't cost £5m either.

I think we'll know much more by Xmas, and whether he's been good, bad or indifferent.  However if Reid has 15 goals at that point, that might factor into the equation.

Good debate though.

 

I think Taylor and Fammy are different players. They do both share a good work ethic and movement but I'd play Fammy up top on his own but wouldn't want to do that with Taylor. I like both of them and think they both have a place - I'd actually like to see them play together but obviously you can't/I wouldn't want to drop Reid on current form.