Flint & Baker the best combo

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You're not going to change my opinion Nogbad. 

For the third time - lets agree to disagree on the Flint topic.

OK, but we're no doubt going to keep on publicly disagreeing on here because you keep on writing the same things whatever the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I might therefore feel compelled to respond, even if I'm all too aware I'll be banging my head against a brick wall.

Something to look forward to. 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

In my opinion Flint as a footballer is very limited. He's immobile and weak against people running at him. He's also uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Wright on is a far better footballer.

Flint is obviously a colossus in both boxes and gets a decent amount of goals but to me he's League 1 standard at best.

Ive thought that consistently since he signed for City.

Then you have demonstrably been proven wrong by tangible evidence as Flint has started over 80 games in the Championship and has been courted by other Championship clubs who are willing to double his wages. If he was League 1 "at best" that simply would not have happened.

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

No point trying to convince me otherwise. I'll only change my view when Flint brings the ball out of defence on regular basis and we all know that won't happen.

Of course it won't happen, but why does it have to for him to be classed as a Championship standard footballer?

[Son of Fred]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You're not going to change my opinion Nogbad. 

For the third time - lets agree to disagree on the Flint topic.

Wright MAY be better 'on the ball-but no doubt atall in my mind Aden the better centre half...

Just hope Lee is strong enough to stick with Baker/Flint for a very tough one tomorrow.

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

OK, but we're no doubt going to keep on publicly disagreeing on here because you keep on writing the same things whatever the overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary.

I might therefore feel compelled to respond, even if I'm all too aware I'll be banging my head against a brick wall.

Something to look forward to. 

 

I write the same thing because my opinion on Flint has not changed!........if it changes then I'll say what a better player he's become.

Im guessing here but I suspect that LJ shares my view which is partly why he signed Wright.

 

[Major Isewater]

On 10/09/2017 at 12:48, Robbored said:

I've always said that Flint is a head it and kick it merchant and not a natural "footballer". By that mean he's not comfortable in possession and until last season we saw him hoof the ball up the pitch to no-one in particular pretty much every time he had the ball. I can remember moaning about "hoof" football at the time. That said after LJ has got him to play simple passes he's much better on that front. 

As we know Flint has goals in his game which both Wright and Baker don't have.

Baker is a better all round player with more ability than Flint but he's hot headed at times and was fortunate not get a straight red yesterday. He's another "head and kick it" defender like Flint. That  said the Villa faithful were hugely pissed off with Bruce for allowing him to leave. Apparently Bruce's nickname is "potato head"...................

Wright is far more comfortable in possession but not as strong in the air as Flint or Baker but quicker and more mobile. Add to that his leadership skills and you have very decent CB.

Who'd be a manager eh?

Good post . I agree that all are good and all have qualities and faults in their game .

The coaches must decide who would be the better option on a game by game basis . Taking into account the opposition and fitness of our lads.

Interestingly , how would we be feeling if Flint had gone and we ' only ' had Hörður as back up ? 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Good post . I agree that all are good and all have qualities and faults in their game .

The coaches must decide who would be the better option on a game by game basis . Taking into account the opposition and fitness of our lads.

Interestingly , how would we be feeling if Flint had gone and we ' only ' had Hörður as back up ? 

Glad I'm not alone Major.

If Flint had gone the Baker/Wright would starters but Hodur is an Icelandic international but inexperienced in English football as CB. Hegelar has CB experience in Germany so the cupboards not bare on CB front.

[Major Isewater]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Glad I'm not alone Major.

If Flint had gone the Baker/Wright would starters but Hodur is an Icelandic international but inexperienced in English football as CB. Hegelar has CB experience in Germany so the cupboards not bare on CB front.

I see Hegeler more as competition for Pack . 

[Phileas Fogg]

39 minutes ago, Robbored said:

In my opinion Flint as a footballer is very limited. He's immobile and weak against people running at him. He's also uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Wright on is a far better footballer.

Flint is obviously a colossus in both boxes and gets a decent amount of goals but to me he's League 1 standard at best.

Ive thought that consistently since he signed for City.

No point trying to convince me otherwise. I'll only change my view when Flint brings the ball out of defence on regular basis and we all know that won't happen.

It seems to me your criticisms are about his style of play rather than his ability.

Seems you prefer ball playing centre halves - that's fine. That's not really Flint's game though and there's still a place in the modern game for his style of defender. Many of the world's top defenders are what you'd describe as 'head it and kick it'.

Sure, he has his weaknesses like everyone in our team. I think his strengths are *so* strong though that he's a very key player for us. Many other managers have also wanted him which strengthens that view.

Which Bristol City defenders over the last 10 years have you rated higher?

 

[Jack Dawe]

24 minutes ago, Robbored said:

In my opinion Flint as a footballer is very limited. He's immobile and weak against people running at him. He's also uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Wright on is a far better footballer.

Flint is obviously a colossus in both boxes and gets a decent amount of goals but to me he's League 1 standard at best.

Ive thought that consistently since he signed for City.

No point trying to convince me otherwise. I'll only change my view when Flint brings the ball out of defence on regular basis and we all know that won't happen.

Such are the workings of the mind, with all its biases. I think we have much of OTIB here, in a nutshell. Me included. There truly is no point trying to convince the old chap otherwise, and I for one won't bother.

Those first impressions - and the concrete, definitive conclusions we come to based upon them - are devilishly difficult to shake off, the more so for going so public with our convictions, so early on.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Such are the workings of the mind, with all its biases. I think we have much of OTIB here, in a nutshell. Me included. There truly is no point trying to convince the old chap otherwise, and I for one won't bother.

Those first impressions - and the concrete, definitive conclusions we come to based upon them - are devilishly difficult to shake off, the more so for going so public with our convictions, so early on.

 

You're right. I find it strange why so many in her will talk in definites when we as fans only get a small % of the story.

We only get a small sample of what really goes on at our club and only see 90 mins of football every so often. 

Take the Tomlin situation - so much more to that than most would ever realise. Slowly beginning to come out now, but in January/Feb most of us were oblivious.

Then again - OTIB wouldn't be as fun if everyone was neutral and relaxed about everything.

[Robbored]

28 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It seems to me your criticisms are about his style of play rather than his ability.

Seems you prefer ball playing centre halves - that's fine. That's not really Flint's game though and there's still a place in the modern game for his style of defender. Many of the world's top defenders are what you'd describe as 'head it and kick it'.

Sure, he has his weaknesses like everyone in our team. I think his strengths are *so* strong though that he's a very key player for us. Many other managers have also wanted him which strengthens that view.

Which Bristol City defenders over the last 10 years have you rated higher?

 

PF - certainly in the last 25/30 years City have not had a quality CB - with the exception of Caulker maybe but he wasn't our player.

Butler, Lever, Millen..........and even Sean Taylor and Boom Boom McCombe would regularly hoof the ball into "space". Inevitably the ball would come straight back. The exception would be Carey who I don't remember him being a "hoof it" type of player.

At the time it didn't bother too much because City were largely a League 1 club and pretty much every team did the same.

But...higher up long hoofs up the pitch becomes a dinosaur way of playing. In the Championship keeping possession is crucial if a team wants to hold their own. LJ knows that full well and tries to get the team playing proper and attractive football.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Nogbad - my take on Flint as footballer hasn't changed one bit since he signed for City. As you know I've consistently posted that view which you vehemently disagree with. 

Debates about all things City is what otib is about and you and I have polarised views on Flint. We are not going to change each other's opinions so let's agree to disagree.

 

Despite the fact that even his harshest critics would agree that he's improved as a player during his time here (Considerably Id suggest). ???

What an odd mindset

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

In my opinion Flint as a footballer is very limited. He's immobile and weak against people running at him. He's also uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Wright on is a far better footballer.

Flint is obviously a colossus in both boxes and gets a decent amount of goals but to me he's League 1 standard at best.

Ive thought that consistently since he signed for City.

No point trying to convince me otherwise. I'll only change my view when Flint brings the ball out of defence on regular basis and we all know that won't happen.

More evidence of a stubborn and blind mindset 

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

You're not going to change my opinion Nogbad. 

For the third time - lets agree to disagree on the Flint topic.

How much more evidence needed of either someone with (IMHO some bizarre footballing views) a set agenda / narrow mind with no room for reconsideration (Ironically You criticise those who won't bend on LJ  but are the worst offender for such mindsets)

or 

Enjoying playing pantomime dame for attention again are we Robbo ? 

 

BTW - Going with  your judgement that a certain manager who took us within one kick of Premier League is a  'Conference 'Manager' 

If Flint is 'only L1 standard' , by my reckoning we need to hang onto him as he could get us to Champions League minimum or himself be  turning out for Barca in the next couple of years !

[BobBobSuperBob]

51 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It seems to me your criticisms are about his style of play rather than his ability.

Seems you prefer ball playing centre halves - that's fine. That's not really Flint's game though and there's still a place in the modern game for his style of defender. Many of the world's top defenders are what you'd describe as 'head it and kick it'.

Sure, he has his weaknesses like everyone in our team. I think his strengths are *so* strong though that he's a very key player for us. Many other managers have also wanted him which strengthens that view.

Which Bristol City defenders over the last 10 years have you rated higher?

 

Think the pantomime dame would have Hoddle and Pirlo as a centre half pairing 

Nice passing , shame about the eight conceded per game

So @Robbored - your best 5/10 'footballing' centre halves that have carved out a career in England in last 20'years ........... ?

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Despite the fact that even his harshest critics would agree that he's improved as a player during his time here (Considerably Id suggest). ???

What an odd mindset

More evidence of a stubborn and blind mindset 

How much more evidence needed of either someone with (IMHO some bizarre footballing views) a set agenda / narrow mind with no room for reconsideration (Ironically You criticise those who won't bend on LJ  but are the worst offender for such mindsets)

or 

Enjoying playing pantomime dame for attention again are we Robbo ? 

Bob - my view is committed, not blind or stubborn as you suggest.

One thing I will concede tho is that since those consequetive errors last season and LJ had to tell him to go "back to basics and keep simple" Flint has concentrated on his strengths, namely heading and winning the ball and is better for it.

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Think the pantomime dame would have Hoddle and Pirlo as a centre half pairing 

Nice passing , shame about the eight conceded per game

So @Robbored - your best 5/10 'footballing' centre halves that have carved out a career in England in last 20'years ........... ?

Two obvious ones Rio Ferdinand and John Terry.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Two obvious ones Rio Ferdinand and John Terry.

I'd suggest Terry was a simple passer / user of the ball , but hey ho

 

Have a go at the  ones that we could ever have hoped to recruit to play for Bristol City  

BTW - you do realise why AF or any other Centre Half often ending up knocking the ball  long do you ?

Actually , as your moans about this are concentrated on AF and not why he does , you clearly don't 

You think he just fancies himself as Pirlo do you ?

 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

BTW - you do realise why AF or any other Centre Half often ending up knocking the ball  long do you ?

Actually , as your moans about this are concentrated on AF and not why he does , you clearly don't 

You think he just fancies himself as Pirlo do you ?

 

Bob - you're getting into the finer points of football with that question.

 It's twofold in my view. Firstly the style of play dictated by the manager.  Some managers have a one dimensional way of playing and we've had a few of those over many seasons so seeing the ball launched from one D to the other became the norm. The likes of Millen.....  fitted perfectly into that long ball style  which was  commonplace in League 1. 

Secondly a CB not either having the ability (Flint) to bring the ball out into midfield or not having a midfielder becoming available to pass to leads to the wasted "ball into space". 

Occaisionally the long hoof ball pays off but overall it's a low percentage choice.

Being a former midfielder himself I'm sure LJ knows that perfectly well. I can remember him getting the ball from McCombe on occasions.

Retaing possession is so crucial higher up.

[BobBobSuperBob]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Bob - you're getting into the finer points of football with that question.

 It's twofold in my view. Firstly the style of play dictated by the manager.  Some managers have a one dimensional way of playing and we've had a few of those over many seasons so seeing the ball launched from one D to the other became the norm. The likes of Millen.....  fitted perfectly into that long ball style  which was  commonplace in League 1. 

Secondly a CB not either having the ability (Flint) to bring the ball out into midfield or not having a midfielder becoming available to pass to leads to the wasted "ball into space". 

Occaisionally the long hoof ball pays off but overall it's a low percentage choice.

Being a former midfielder himself I'm sure LJ knows that perfectly well. I can remember him getting the ball from McCombe on occasions.

Retaing possession is so crucial higher up.

So if he has no movement and options in front of him - is that his fault ?

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So if he has no movement and options in front of him - is that his fault ?

Of course it is......he has the ball at his feet and an easy pass along the back gives a midfielder chance to become available.

It ain't rocket science Bob.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of course it is......he has the ball at his feet and an easy pass along the back gives a midfielder chance to become available.

It ain't rocket science Bob.

Ahhhhhh

So you're claiming he punts the ball forward , with no good reason , even when he has a simple option available ....

ok

[BCFC Rich]

For me its this simple. Flint great CB at this level. Bailey great CB at this level. Baker great CB at this level. And Mags in reserve has good potential. 

Flint deserves to be in the team for his last performance (particularly given everything else he has had to work through). Bailey deserves to be in the team because of his form before the international break. Baker deserves to be in the side because of his form. 

They all deserve their place so unless we have a back 3 (not impossible) one will be disapointed and have justification to feel unlucky to be out of the starting line up. Whoever LJ picks he will upset some one and some fans. But on the plus side here, we have a very strong championship pairing whoever plays. And whoever, doesn't play will have to take their chance when it comes. 

I love the fact that this is the kind of competition for places we have. 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ahhhhhh

So you're claiming he punts the ball forward , with no good reason , even when he has a simple option available ....

ok

Absolutely so. 

Remember that Flint signed from Swindon and we all know how limited their football is. He didn't know any better until LJ spoke to him with sound advice.

More recently we've seen Flint in possession and with no forward option, passing along the back.We haven't seen a aimless punt from him for ages.

If Flint had greater footballing ability he'd be confident in taking the ball into midfield himself....

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely so. 

Remember that Flint signed from Swindon and we all know how limited their football is. He didn't know any better until LJ spoke to him with sound advice.

More recently we've seen Flint in possession and with no forward option, passing along the back.We haven't seen a aimless punt from him for ages.

If Flint had greater footballing ability he'd be confident in taking the ball into midfield himself....

More absolute nonsense.  Swindon were playing perfectly decent football under DiCanio and the season after played some great passing football under Mark Cooper. Your simply demonstrating how limited your football knowledge is.

"He didn't know any better until LJ spoke to him"  - what a laugh that is! Is that what he told you at one of his appearances at the senior reds? 

Utter rubbish. SOD wanted Flint to improve his short passing game and worked hard at it with him. Subsequently even SC got Flint distributing the ball effectively on the ground to usually either Williams, Little, Bryan,or Ayling. 

He is as you say still perfectly comfortable at passing the ball along the back or forward for that matter.

You should really start playing closer attention at games if you're going to pass comment.

[The Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely so. 

Remember that Flint signed from Swindon and we all know how limited their football is. He didn't know any better until LJ spoke to him with sound advice.

More recently we've seen Flint in possession and with no forward option, passing along the back.We haven't seen a aimless punt from him for ages.

If Flint had greater footballing ability he'd be confident in taking the ball into midfield himself....

Have you heard of the Illusory Truth Effect?

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

More absolute nonsense.  Swindon were playing perfectly decent football under DiCanio and the season after played some great passing football under Mark Cooper. Your simply demonstrating how limited your football knowledge is.

"He didn't know any better until LJ spoke to him"  - what a laugh that is! Is that what he told you at one of his appearances at the senior reds? 

Utter rubbish. SOD wanted Flint to improve his short passing game and worked hard at it with him. Subsequently even SC got Flint distributing the ball effectively on the ground to usually either Williams, Little, Bryan,or Ayling. 

He is as you say still perfectly comfortable at passing the ball along the back or forward for that matter.

You should really start playing closer attention at games if you're going to pass comment.

Kid, you can mock my view all you want. I have broad shoulders and the skin of a Rhino. 

You and certain other posters simply can't see how limited Flints footballing ability is. That's why he needs to keep his passing simple. 

He plays to his strengths - his physical size and power. He makes the best of what he's got and fair play to him.

[GrahamC]

6 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Then you have demonstrably been proven wrong by tangible evidence as Flint has started over 80 games in the Championship and has been courted by other Championship clubs who are willing to double his wages. If he was League 1 "at best" that simply would not have happened.

Of course it won't happen, but why does it have to for him to be classed as a Championship standard footballer?

I think our senile old friend is getting confused with Phil Jones.

After all the description fits him yet he is currently a first choice for England & Man U.

Perhaps he isn't "Championship quality" either?

[BobBobSuperBob]

Not sure I've missed one but no one seems to have really commented on AFs post match interviews on Saturday

Sensible, humble and totally professional , pouring water on any issues and ensuring he makes things easier and smoother all round

Cracking words from Aden IMHO 

 

Costa , Couthinio  Kodjia , and co take note

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

@Robbored

You may want to check out the view of this fan on Saturday , who doesn't seem to think Flint is not a Championship Player

'Flint was the best player on the park by a country mile and pretty much won the game for Bristol by himself whether thats because he was made to look good im not so sure. Won every 50/50 header, solid in the challenge and led from the back by example so fair play to him he deserved the winning goal'

 

 

Oh that was from an opposition supporter by the way 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

@Robbored

Yoummay want to check out the view of this fan on Saturday who doesn't seem to think Flint is not a Championship Player

'Flint was the best player on the park by a country mile and pretty much won the game for Bristol by himself whether thats because he was made to look good im not so sure. Won every 50/50 header, solid in the challenge and led from the back by example so fair play to him he deserved the winning goal'

 

 

Oh that was from an opposition supporter by the way 

Flint is upping his game after he was told that its Wrights shirt. All players need competition for their place and until recently Flint was an automatic starter. Currently  he's not. 

He'll be hoping that he impressed LJ enough to win his place back.

No,doubt at all that LJ is pretty chuffed with himself.

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Flint is upping his game after he was told that its Wrights shirt. All players need competition for their place and until recently Flint was an automatic starter. Currently  he's not. 

He'll be hoping that he impressed LJ enough to win his place back.

No,doubt at all that LJ is pretty chuffed with himself.

You're absolutely loving playing the pantomime villain - thing is, I think lots of what you say are your actual unexaggerated beliefs.