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The Official Bristol City v Derby County Match Day Thread 8

havanatopia

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havanatopia

havanatopia

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Afrikakonferenz.jpg

This rather well sketched gathering took place in 1884, the year of the founding of Derby County Football Club and the last of the 12 founding members of the Football League. While I doubt Derbyshire County Cricket Club ever had what looks to be rather salubrious surroundings for their meeting on February 4th, 1884 the European powers clearly did as they sat down at the Berlin Conference to carve up Africa. The depiction of this conference is interesting for the somewhat overt inclusion of the hapless native African looking on awaiting his fate and to which linguistic tongue every corner of the continent his peoples would be subjugated. The scramble for Africa had begun with King Leopold II of Belgium in the late 1870's. Before this time there were only coastal trading posts.

In 1878, King Léopold II of Belgium, who had previously founded the International African Society in 1876, invited Henry Morton Stanley to join him in researching and “civilizing” the continent. In 1878, the International Congo Society was also formed, with more economic goals, but still closely related to the former society. Léopold secretly bought off the foreign investors in the Congo Society, which was turned to imperialistic goals, with the African Society serving primarily as a philanthropic front.

By the early 1880s, due to diplomatic maneuvers, subsequent colonial exploration, and recognition of Africa’s abundance of valuable resources such as gold, timber, land, markets and labour power, European interest in Africa had increased dramatically. Stanley’s charting of the Congo River Basin (1874–77) removed the last bit of terra incognita from European maps of the continent, thereby delineating the rough areas of British, Portuguese, French, and Belgian control. The powers raced to push these rough boundaries to their furthest limits and eliminating any potential local minor powers which might prove troublesome to European competitive diplomacy.

France moved to occupy Tunisia, one of the last of the Barbary Pirate states under the pretext of another Islamic terror and piracy incident. French claims by Pierre de Brazza were quickly solidified with French taking control of today’s Republic of the Congo in 1881 and also Guinea in 1884. This, in turn, partly convinced Italy to become part of the Triple Alliance, thereby upsetting Bismarck’s carefully laid plans with Italy and forcing Germany to become involved. In 1882, realizing the geopolitical extent of Portuguese control on the coasts, but seeing penetration by France eastward across Central Africa toward Ethiopia, the Nile, and the Suez Canal, Britain saw its vital trade route through Egypt and its Indian Empire threatened.

Under the pretext of the collapsed Egyptian financing and a subsequent riot which saw hundreds of Europeans and British subjects murdered or injured, the United Kingdom intervened in nominally Ottoman Egypt, which, in turn, ruled over the Sudan and what would later become British Somaliland.

Owing to the upsetting of Bismarck’s carefully laid balance of power in European politics caused by Leopold’s gamble and subsequent European race for colonies, Germany felt compelled to act and started launching expeditions of its own which frightened both British and French statesmen. Hoping to quickly soothe this brewing conflict, King Leopold II was able to convince France and Germany that common trade in Africa was in the best interests of all three countries. Under support from the British and the initiative of Portugal, Otto von Bismarck, German Chancellor, called on representatives of Austria-Hungary, Belgium, Denmark, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden-Norway (union until 1905), the Ottoman Empire, and the United States to take part in the Berlin Conference to work out policy. However, the United States did not actually participate in the conference both because it had an inability to take part in territorial expeditions as well as a sense of not giving the conference further legitimacy. Perhaps President Obama had read his history before taking office as he took a few steps back in his own 21st century US foreign policy.

What became known as the 'General Act of the Berlin Conference' for the very first time set up an agreed method for the rules of dividing up lands the majority of which remain as modern day states and their borders that we know today. It was also the first time the term 'spheres of influence' was used in any treaty. The conference straddled the new year of 1884/5 and lasted several months. 

Derby County rather epitomized the confidence of the northern industrialized wealth outwardly portrayed in rapid overseas territorial expansion. The conference was an intellectuals way of solving problems, forming alliances and establishing organizations. The history of Europe was full of them at this time in what set the tone and the balance of power and began to set in motion the consequences of what evolved and transpired in the two world wars of the 20th century. While those history making conferences with their tumultuous results may be long past along with their often dire future consequences many smaller gatherings, to establish sporting clubs, have stood the test of time. A meeting of cricketers, as was the case with the founding of many football clubs, was designed to raise funds for expanding their existing sport. Little perhaps did they know how big football would become. They may not have spared a thought for long it might take for Derby County Football Club to be the best club in England; winning the first of their two Division 1 titles in 1972 under, of course, Brian Clough. 

Those Cricketers, while perhaps not considering future successes for their new football team, did bequeath the Ram as the clubs crest typifying the local woolen trade. They even have an ancient ballad all about it performed in a play called the 'Derby Tup' and not really for the faint of heart. The characters included a butcher with a knife and apron, a boy carrying a basin and the old tup represented by a performer covered with a sack through which protruded a broomstick with a ram’s head impaled upon it. Nice. The highlight of the play was the slaying of the ram by the butcher stabbing it in the throat and the boy catching the blood in his bowl. The people of Derby used to gild the horns of the performing rams which seems to suggest that the play may be a survival of the Roman custom of gilding the horns of animals about to be sacrificed. This play was performed in many Derbyshire villages at Christmas time (which up to the 13th century represented “New Year”) and the ceremony and ballad seems to represent the sacrifice of a ram as the old year passed into the new.

On the other hand if you have the inclination to read more Derby County football stuff it has all been committed to these pages before:-

 

 

Why I write so much about Derby I quite have no real idea. Maybe it is just a coincidence. Maybe it is because the club is still British owned, I believe, or maybe it is just because Derby is a pretty decent place with a football team that is very lucky to have such a tremendous amount of support. 

back to today and frankly City have an awful record against Derby. Just look at these stats:-

Won 17, Drawn 16, lost 36.

And in the last 8 meetings we have drawn 3 and lost 5. Its time.

Enjoy the game everyone. 

Note: Thanks to Originalpeople.org for much of the history lesson.

 

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Edited by havanatopia
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Offside

Offside

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Another fascinating post havanatopia - I always look forward to reading the matchday thread.

Yet another tough game today, which is one of the great things about being in the Championship. It would be good to get a win today to eat into our poor record against Derby but I reckon a draw is more likely. I still have vivid memories of the 4-3 win at their place in a televised game about 25 years ago. We were getting battered until their keeper was sent off and their influential midfielder had to go in goal, which changed the game. Highlights are on YouTube I think.

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1960maaan

1960maaan

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Bloke I know is a (TV) Derby fan , says they can't defend crosses and to have money on 4-2 with Flint headed het trick. He thought although they won 5-0 Vs Hull , Hull could have had 5.
He is , however , a very strange individual so I may not be placing the bet.

 

Just re read this. To stop any of the comments, He watches them on TV , he's not (to my knowledge) a TV . 

Edited by 1960maaan
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pongo88

pongo88

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1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Sadly I can see us losing this one, but that might just be because I haven't had breakfast yet.

 

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I think we will lose today. I think we have played well, but also rode our luck at times. A fresh Derby who thrashed Hull, gonna be tough. 1-2

 

10 minutes ago, Malago said:

Being overwhelmed by negative vibes.  Think we'll run out of gas (no pun intended) today.  0-2 I'm afraid.

Ignore the negative vibes and consider the omens. In the USA a Bowler hat is known as a Derby. Laurel and Hardy both wore Derbys as did Charlie Chaplin. If this isn't an omen that City are going to win by at least 3 goals I'll eat my hat 

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tinman85

tinman85

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7 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

Aden just needs 3 goals to best his total for last season. Love that guy, keeping him could be the difference on where we end up. 

Horrible feeling that if Pisano is fit Wright could start ahead of Flint. Hope not. Nothing against Bailey but Flint has been brilliant in last two games. Plus gives us a goal threat. 

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Guest

Guest

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11 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

 

 

Ignore the negative vibes and consider the omens. In the USA a Bowler hat is known as a Derby. Laurel and Hardy both wore Derbys as did Charlie Chaplin. If this isn't an omen that City are going to win by at least 3 goals I'll eat my hat 

I'm sure there are more Bristols - I'll get my hat

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Top Robin

Top Robin

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I think we will lose today. I think we have played well, but also rode our luck at times. A fresh Derby who thrashed Hull, gonna be tough. 1-2

I wonder when we will ever expect that we are going to win any game put in front of us in this division......would be nice.

Cant imagine the passionate fans of some other clubs talking like some of us.

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