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Trust...'DNA'...Everyone working in the same direction...


spudski

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....I've been astonished by the reaction of some fans since our win against Derby.

Previous dissenters now appearing to think LJ is ok as a coach.

I await with baited breath if we get ripped a new one against Norwich :laugh:

However....it got me to thinking. As you've probably worked out over the years, I've always been in favour of LJ being our coach. His appointment has been a long process and planned, which imo is a good thing.

As a person or in business, you pretty much always turn to someone you trust, is qualified respected or know well, if you want an opinion on something, a job done, a recommendation etc.

If running a football Club, you want everyone, in EVERY part of the Club, be it Community trust, Academy, First team etc, all working in the same direction with the same belief.

It only needs a few 'bad eggs' to be working as a lone wolf, to start problems.

Over the years it's become apparent that not everyone was pulling in the same direction at the club, even last season we saw this, and even in our double winning season...hence the dramatic failure the following season....the wins glossing over and detracting from what was going on behind the scenes.

Surrounding yourself in people you can trust and doing due diligence when employing, is something that this Club seem to have taken very seriously of late. Some bad apples may get through, but over all, this is the first season where it seems everyone is working in the same direction.

It's been a gradual process, which imo, is a good thing ( football is way too reactionary ).

It's never going to be perfect...but imo, is essential if you are going to succeed.

I've often been told by those in the game, that results on the pitch often (not always) reflect on the health of the football club.

So maybe from this due diligence we will start to become a bonafide Championship Club and not a yo yo club.

Maybe finding people who have the talent, who you know and trust, can work with, believe in your blueprint and willing to work with it, is the way to go. They maybe not the most experienced, qualified, won everything, be the best footballer ( but have a great attitude and stable background )....but if you all work together, in the same direction, that becomes a very strong unit.

We shall see...but if I was running a football Club, this is exactly the way I'd do it.

Not a case of giving jobs to mates....but to people you know, trust and have qualities you want.

To give a balanced view to this....there is an article that offers a slightly different view.

http://trainingground.guru/articles/challenging-footballs-old-boys-network

 

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7 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

How much of our current form is down to Lee and how much impact do you think Jamie Mac is having though?

You can look at improvements in individual players like Joe Bryan as an example....but I look at the squad as a whole, in fact, the whole club, and there seems to be more of a togetherness, and that breeds confidence.

TBH...I think it's a culmination of bringing in the right people and getting rid of a few others that's made a difference.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves though....there are 23 other clubs all trying to stop us.

For every £5 million Striker not supposedly firing....there is a £5 million defender trying to stop him.

For every £30 million striker like Tammy scoring at will at this level....they become the misfiring one at the next level.

Small margins....and massive differences.

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Bad eggs are being funnelled out of the club... nobody moaning about Pembo leaving now. Academy looking in the right direction too, which for me is very important. So I'm delighted. 

 

I agree with what you said R.E Norwich (or our next loss). Hopefully the reaction is that of a normal team. Not one that berates LJ and co to death...

 

By the way, I only posted very briefly about  Horseman coming back but it's a very good signing. A passion for the football club and extremely talented with coaching kids

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50 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

How much of our current form is down to Lee and how much impact do you think Jamie Mac is having though?

Lee is the head coach, lee is responsible for getting Macca the promotion so its all down to lee, he's blamed when things go wrong, its only correct for him to be praised when things are going well,

I'm still not convinced but he's always giving 100% no one can deny that

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18 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Yeah, i'm not knocking it.  Back in the 70's we had Alan Dicks, but I think a lot of the success was down to the head coach John Sillett.

Look at Brian Clough and Peter Taylor for example.

Maybe we have a star team in the making.

I agree....having a team of coach's all working in the same direction and believing in the same ideas is a must for success.

You also need time imo....which is why the majority of managers fail at clubs as they are not given time.

If a Club says 'this is how we want you to do it'....then it will take time.

If you look at how LJ plays his team, it's full of boundless energy, speed, high pressing, quick feet, quick passing, quick mind, expansive, thoughtful, patient, structured, together...as one. Everyone knows what they are doing now. You look at the players brought in, and you can now see why they were brought in. What qualities they bring, that others didn't.

There are only a few that I still scratch my head over...maybe some were mistakes, others work in progress. Tomlin...a gamble and in hindsight a mistake. Not sure about Engvail...and although I like him, I'm not sure where Hegeler fits our football style. Hopefully we will soon see.

LJ and the coaching team have had the foresight to see Bryan as an offensive LB....and Bobby as a more advanced number 10. They saw their qualities and where they could fit in and be more effective.

It's about finding the right players to fill the roles you so desire, or finding the qualities in those you already own and adapt them to your suiting.

I think you also as a player be fully behind what your coach thinks. Did JB want to become a LB? It was also apparent from the recent Bobby interview that he had his fears when LJ asked him to take a new role, as the implications in his career could have been massive.

That belief by the players, makes me think we have a good coach. When questioned or not believed in (like we had with Tomlin) then it can become a problem for both coach and player.

I've found in all walks of life, that people have given advice about qualities that you've not seen in yourself and how they can be adapted for the better. You think you know yourself, but sometimes someone else see's it and you don't. Sometimes you can hold yourself back.

I've had it myself in sport....thought I was a good golfer, skier, footballer....but found I was better at coaching them instead. That was pointed out to me, by those with better knowledge. Excepting it is one thing....going with it is another. Sometimes others can see your qualities better than you.

That's what is see in LJ....he seems to have a good eye in seeing players best qualities and how they can be adapted to suit.

I couldn't see what he saw in Patto...after time, I do now. Same can be said of many of our players.

All that needs time though. Which is why I'm glad SL stuck with LJ.

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LJ aside I cannot think of anything happening off field that I don't whole heartedly support.  

- Radical overhaul of scouting and analysis.  Getting players before others spot them.

- Recruiting young hungry players with good attitude and character.  Cherishing local lads in particular.

- Developing a club identity and recruiting players at all levels to deliver it.  

- An identity that is attack minded high pressing game and encouraging players to be brave on the ball.

- Getting the most promising premier league talent on loan without inhibiting our own.

- Recruiting best youngsters for the U23s, both local and from afar.

- Loaning youngsters out for crucial first team experience. (Even if they don't succeed with city we will only continue to attract top talent if we can prove we can secure them some kind of career in football).

- Succession planning to replace players that may be sold if the price is right (and not being afraid to do so).

I continue to support LJ, but to me what is much more important is that we know who we are as a club now.  The time will come when we will need to replace LJ, for whatever reason, and it's the things being put in place behind the scenes that will mean we can continue to progress whoever comes in.  You cannot understand the impact of having the kind of stability that SL provides in helping us think and plan long term.  

Personally I have never been more excited about the future of the club.

COYR.

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5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

It's all down to Johnson. Its Johnson's job to get the right coaching staff in. 

Is it JD? Or do some others have a say in it as well? Do you know that as fact, or are you just making a call based on a hunch? Not being funny...just interested, as imo, other people have an input too.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

....I've been astonished by the reaction of some fans since our win against Derby.

Previous dissenters now appearing to think LJ is ok as a coach.

 

 

At least you are not calling people who disagreed with you shit fans again. these shit fans as you labelled them a few months ago may have been very right stop fannying around with the team and results will improve.

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well if Johnson does not have the final say on these things, then I'm struggling to work out who does. Do people actually think that our assistant is the only reason we have improved this season? How about looking at our players. We have a so much better squad of players this season. Thats the main reason. Coaching existing players, better recruitment, better tactics, better team spirit without tomlin, experience of last season, there's many possible reasons other than simply we have a good assistant manager. Also maybe Johnson has improved as a manager. Managers improve just like players do. We have a young playing and coaching staff. They're all learning and improving. 

I thought the whole point of a 'head coach' was that the other coaching positions were chosen by 'the club' and therefore there was an ongoing club ethos rather than wholesale changes every time there was a first team management change?

 

edit: to be honest it looks like the 'head coach' thing may have gone out the window and LJ has been entrusted to be a true Manager.  Not ITK just interested in others views.

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9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well if Johnson does not have the final say on these things, then I'm struggling to work out who does. Do people actually think that our assistant is the only reason we have improved this season? How about looking at our players. We have a so much better squad of players this season. Thats the main reason. Coaching existing players, better recruitment, better tactics, better team spirit without tomlin, experience of last season, there's many possible reasons other than simply we have a good assistant manager. Also maybe Johnson has improved as a manager. Managers improve just like players do. We have a young playing and coaching staff. They're all learning and improving. 

As RR said in his reply to you...I think LJ doesn't have the sole say in the matter....that it's a group or majority decision. I think MA may have more influence than we think as well as others, but I don't want to go down that route tbh.

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20 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Or maybe playing Joe at LB and Bobby up front were just experiments that paid off.  I can think of a few who have successfully switched, Clive Whitehead DonGillies and Scott Murray to name a few.

Perhaps Flint at Centre Forward could be next :)

Long before he moved Joe back from the wing, LJ was shouting about how he was a Premier League left back in the making.  He's been working towards this.

I would love it if in a few years time, the approach we took last year in sticking when there was ample justification to sack LJ, is the standard approach of clubs rather than sack, sack, sack...

Obviously very early in the season, and we started last season very well, so too early to be sure.  But I was behind LJ's appointment, I supported and advocated keeping him - if for no other reason than the fact that we kept changing the manager and deep down very little changed, so try something different - and I still believe he is absolutely the right man for the job.

Although our start is similar results wise this season to date, the difference in performance levels is massive.  Our team now would wipe the floor with our team from twelve months ago, and that is the big difference.  Long may it continue,

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2 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

How much of our current form is down to Lee and how much impact do you think Jamie Mac is having though?

I suspect that he has been a very important addition although I have nothing to back that up apart from intuition. One day, one match at a time so let's not get carried away by the last week. I still want mid table obscurity this season although flirting with the edge of the play offs will not harm us.

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16 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Long before he moved Joe back from the wing, LJ was shouting about how he was a Premier League left back in the making.  He's been working towards this.

I would love it if in a few years time, the approach we took last year in sticking when there was ample justification to sack LJ, is the standard approach of clubs rather than sack, sack, sack...

Obviously very early in the season, and we started last season very well, so too early to be sure.  But I was behind LJ's appointment, I supported and advocated keeping him - if for no other reason than the fact that we kept changing the manager and deep down very little changed, so try something different - and I still believe he is absolutely the right man for the job.

Although our start is similar results wise this season to date, the difference in performance levels is massive.  Our team now would wipe the floor with our team from twelve months ago, and that is the big difference.  Long may it continue,

Total agreement with that statement

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28 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

At least you are not calling people who disagreed with you shit fans again. these shit fans as you labelled them a few months ago may have been very right stop fannying around with the team and results will improve.

A fair point. I think my two main concerns last season were LJ's man management skills and that he was a tinkerman.

We've shipped out /sidelined some of the more troublesome influences and LJ has stopped making 4+ changes each match. Not a coincidence that the results have started to come.

In fact if you look back to last season he really only started playing a settled side from the Wolves home game.

Since then we've only lost 2 games out of 16 - both to Birmingham City!

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3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A fair point. I think my two main concerns last season were LJ's man management skills and that he was a tinkerman.

We've shipped out /sidelined some of the more troublesome influences and LJ has stopped making 4+ changes each match. Not a coincidence that the results have started to come.

In fact if you look back to last season he really only started playing a settled side from the Wolves home game.

Since then we've only lost 2 games out of 16 - both to Birmingham City!

He's also stopped throwing players under the bus (in public) when individual errors have led to goals which surely goes a long way to building respect between him and his players. 

I also think the Cup has been very useful in managing playing time for players on the edge of selection for the starting XI and it would be very handy to beat Stoke tomorrow so this can continue. 

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I have always thought that one of the biggest things for any employee in any role/industry is do they care? Do they care about their role, their team-mates/co-workers, their self-improvement etc. If they do care, then they should be someone who can do a good job and take a company/club forwards. 

The great thing is, it really does seem that our players and staff really do care and it's good to see. Recent results reflect this too. 

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Was doing some analysis earlier and worked out that ignoring the bad run (which constitutes only roughly 20% of LJs tenure here) he's averaged 1.7 points per game. 

If (big if, of course) we could maintain that, it would see us pushing for the top six. But the fact that our return has been in that region for 80% of the time he's been here is certainly encouraging. 

Like others have said it'll be interesting to see how we respond when the inevitable poorer results come. It's such a competitive league that no matter how good you are there will be blips. 

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3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A fair point. I think my two main concerns last season were LJ's man management skills and that he was a tinkerman.

We've shipped out /sidelined some of the more troublesome influences and LJ has stopped making 4+ changes each match. Not a coincidence that the results have started to come.

In fact if you look back to last season he really only started playing a settled side from the Wolves home game.

Since then we've only lost 2 games out of 16 - both to Birmingham City!

At its height there were four formation changes in one half last season. In forty years of football I had never seen such change. Desperate change. Once the tombola stopped the confusion stopped and bingo the results have improved.   

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8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A fair point. I think my two main concerns last season were LJ's man management skills and that he was a tinkerman.

We've shipped out /sidelined some of the more troublesome influences and LJ has stopped making 4+ changes each match. Not a coincidence that the results have started to come.

In fact if you look back to last season he really only started playing a settled side from the Wolves home game.

Since then we've only lost 2 games out of 16 - both to Birmingham City!

Shipping out the bad influences and making changes has definitely helped. Although it's worth taking into consideration what outside influences made those changes necessary.

Last season was a massive learning curve and early in the process of the 'project'...so mistakes were going to be made.

I looked at Derby on the weekend. A team that has been in the Championship a long time. Bought in some very good players with fine pedigree. Brought in a manager that some wanted here and rated very highly.

Yet his team reminded me of ours last season. Disjointed, confused, lacking energy and ideas.

We all know they are good players and that he's a good coach....however, regardless of the tools at your disposal, trying them to get them to work to what you want, takes time.

I'm really not sure how people expect managers to turn things around in such a short space of time. Granted....the run we went on did LJ no favours...but you only have to look at more experienced managers, more experienced Clubs with 'better' players, infrastructure etc, all struggling, to realise what we expect and what is realistic in this league are very different.

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Isn't football all about ego and money now?

And it's no longer just the players egos either e.g. agents have their own egos, who, in my view, aren't always putting their clients (this is how they view their 'portfolio') best interests first and definitely don't give two shits about clubs. They massage player egos, they appear to sew discontent, they are adding extra costs to football etc. - I look to the Basso debacle as a perfect example.

It's just no longer possible for managers to do it all on their own, so, layers of management are being added to football club's infrastructure, possibly leading to people pulling in different directions, which then has knock on effects to the club as a whole.

Football has changed and I can't say it's been a positive change.

There is now a player team AND a management team, fans come a distant third in the mix of things. When everyone is pulling in the right direction, it's fantastic. When things are fractious, in the higher echelons of any clubs, it appears that it's the fans who suffer from the dis-functionality.

And the person who's job is on the line when things aren't going well... the head coach/manager.

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4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Was doing some analysis earlier and worked out that ignoring the bad run (which constitutes only roughly 20% of LJs tenure here) he's averaged 1.7 points per game. 

If (big if, of course) we could maintain that, it would see us pushing for the top six. But the fact that our return has been in that region for 80% of the time he's been here is certainly encouraging. 

Like others have said it'll be interesting to see how we respond when the inevitable poorer results come. It's such a competitive league that no matter how good you are there will be blips. 

I think the point was the manner of losing last season, individual mistakes will always happen, I have always said as long as players give 100% and do not shirk tackles and don't hide or blame others for their mistakes and as long as the team go down fighting as a team, then I have no problem.

So far this season Birmingham away for the final hour fell into that category IMO, but then Brentford away although we were battered for most of the game we never gave up and I would have accepted that game as a defeat because everybody competed, Wolves away I believe we deserved that point all day long and Millwall and Villa at home were both games that last season we would have lost.

I think the difference is when 11 players are pulling in the same direction with the same commitment you can afford to carry the odd player who is not at the races that day especially when said players are not hiding, but when your 11 players are not pulling in the same direction and have the same commitment and are hiding then long losing streaks become inevitable.

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Shipping out the bad influences and making changes has definitely helped. Although it's worth taking into consideration what outside influences made those changes necessary.

Last season was a massive learning curve and early in the process of the 'project'...so mistakes were going to be made.

I looked at Derby on the weekend. A team that has been in the Championship a long time. Bought in some very good players with fine pedigree. Brought in a manager that some wanted here and rated very highly.

Yet his team reminded me of ours last season. Disjointed, confused, lacking energy and ideas.

We all know they are good players and that he's a good coach....however, regardless of the tools at your disposal, trying them to get them to work to what you want, takes time.

I'm really not sure how people expect managers to turn things around in such a short space of time. Granted....the run we went on did LJ no favours...but you only have to look at more experienced managers, more experienced Clubs with 'better' players, infrastructure etc, all struggling, to realise what we expect and what is realistic in this league are very different.

Derby looked to me like a team of big time Charlies, who had little or no respect for themselves, the fans or the manager.

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Shipping out the bad influences and making changes has definitely helped. Although it's worth taking into consideration what outside influences made those changes necessary.

Last season was a massive learning curve and early in the process of the 'project'...so mistakes were going to be made.

I looked at Derby on the weekend. A team that has been in the Championship a long time. Bought in some very good players with fine pedigree. Brought in a manager that some wanted here and rated very highly.

Yet his team reminded me of ours last season. Disjointed, confused, lacking energy and ideas.

We all know they are good players and that he's a good coach....however, regardless of the tools at your disposal, trying them to get them to work to what you want, takes time.

I'm really not sure how people expect managers to turn things around in such a short space of time. Granted....the run we went on did LJ no favours...but you only have to look at more experienced managers, more experienced Clubs with 'better' players, infrastructure etc, all struggling, to realise what we expect and what is realistic in this league are very different.

Lee Johnsons big change has been to change less. The call a lot fans made last season. No way was all that last season part of some big plan. It nearly took the club down.

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4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I think the point was the manner of losing last season, individual mistakes will always happen, I have always said as long as players give 100% and do not shirk tackles and don't hide or blame others for their mistakes and as long as the team go down fighting as a team, then I have no problem.

So far this season Birmingham away for the final hour fell into that category IMO, but then Brentford away although we were battered for most of the game we never gave up and I would have accepted that game as a defeat because everybody competed, Wolves away I believe we deserved that point all day long and Millwall and Villa at home were both games that last season we would have lost.

I think the difference is when 11 players are pulling in the same direction with the same commitment you can afford to carry the odd player who is not at the races that day especially when said players are not hiding, but when your 11 players are not pulling in the same direction and have the same commitment and are hiding then long losing streaks become inevitable.

Oops I actually posted this in the ring thread :laugh: 

Absolutely right regarding effort and application. IMO this squad now has a striking similarity to that assembled by Johnson senior in 07/08 where players will give blood, sweat and tears for their team mates. 

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8 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Oops I actually posted this in the ring thread :laugh: 

Absolutely right regarding effort and application. IMO this squad now has a striking similarity to that assembled by Johnson senior in 07/08 where players will give blood, sweat and tears for their team mates. 

I would say closer to 75/76 the Alan Dicks old first division promotion squad (probably well before your time) the similarities being youngsters beginning to come through the youth system.

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5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I would say closer to 75/76 the Alan Dicks old first division promotion squad (probably well before your time) the similarities being youngsters beginning to come through the youth system.

A smidge before my time yes ;) 

But yes excellent to see the academy bearing fruit. 

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8 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

Lee Johnsons big change has been to change less. The call a lot fans made last season. No way was all that last season part of some big plan. It nearly took the club down.

Maybe the changes were required last season? If something isn't right you can't just leave it and hope it will get better.

I believe that the 5-0 defeat at Preston last season followed a win that had resulted in the first unchanged starting lineup for quite a while, that went well.

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