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Barcelona to play behind closed doors after trouble in Catalonia.


cityexile

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I don't understand why Barcelona haven't been bollocked for this.

The British nations weren't allowed to wear poppy's on the shirt because FIFA laws dictate football cannot be used to take political sides. And were threatened with fines and possible points deductions.

Barcelona openly support the illegal Catalan independence vote and display "Democracy" on the scoreboard for the entire 90 mins yet get nothing. Normally I don't agree with all the UEFAlona stuff people cream all over twitter whenever Barcelona get a decision but I'm starting to see that they can literally do anything and get away with it by chiefs of the game - literally because Johan Cruyff was an iconic coach there.

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9 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Actually @screech I just found this from the peace loving EU, it is refreshing to know that our EU partners never fail to disappoint.

The Vice President of the European Parliament has described today's events in Catalonia as a "coup against Europe".

But sweet FA about the violence, just imagine what the EU would say if parliament had sent an English goon squad in to stop a 2nd Scottish independence vote had there been one.

 

8 hours ago, screech said:

The madness has no end it seems. Who is that person anyway? No cheating by googling either.

I have not seen this quoted comment, but I believe there, in fact, are several Vice Presidents of the European Parliament.

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On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 17:35, Phileas Fogg said:

I think lots are Guardia Civil that have been bought in. I don’t think Madrid would trust the Catalonian police to deal with it how they’d want.

Reports that firefighters and Catalan police have been assisting voters and voting themselves. There’s a shocking video on Owen Jones’ twitter of firefighters being attacked by Guardia Civil.

It’s such a bizarre PR move from Rajoy. Not only will it strengthen the resolve of the Catalonians, but it’ll invigorate the Basque independence campaign and give the Catalan independence cause more outside support. These pictures and videos are really damaging.

Yeah Rajoy has ****** big time. I don't think this will end up with total independence for the Catalans but then half of them don't want it anyway. But his hand is so weakened now he should be a dead man walking.

As for the Guardia was like football hollies away weekend. They like bashing anyone. They in general dislike the English and I know a few that have been taken in and have had a kicking and then released without charge.

Saying all that I have a mate in the Guardia who got me out of a sticky situation . Same as everywhere I suppose some good people wherever you go.

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1 hour ago, stephenkibby. said:

Yeah Rajoy has ****** big time. I don't think this will end up with total independence for the Catalans but then half of them don't want it anyway. But his hand is so weakened now he should be a dead man walking.

As for the Guardia was like football hollies away weekend. They like bashing anyone. They in general dislike the English and I know a few that have been taken in and have had a kicking and then released without charge.

Saying all that I have a mate in the Guardia who got me out of a sticky situation . Same as everywhere I suppose some good people wherever you go.

The way I see it, it was a win win situation. The Catalans got to play real victims and the Guardia Civil got to crack open a few heads.  What's not to like.

The only losers were the Scots who desperately wanted the English to do the same to them, but have to live with the disappointment of being treated reasonably and losing.

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Interesting thread, worrying times for Spain tbh...army sent into Catalonia that is to say 2 divisions so I read, for logistical support as opposed to other uses thankfully. Also head of Catalan police charged with sedition.

@joeyb Bit of a red herring as FIFA don't have jurisdiction in that sense over domestic games. We have poppies at EPL games, it's international games where they get pissy or got pissy.

@Phileas Fogg Really? Bit surprised Atletico are that side, would have thought Real Madrid, Franco's team etc etc. That aside, I fully agree with you- will strengthen support for independence in Catalonia and the Basque country too possibly.

It's gonna sound rather prejudiced and maybe wrong- but I've always been a bit wary of Spain, how democratic is it? The Madrid establishment especially...how really democratic is modern Spain? I read online that some of the pics of police aggression were from a general strike of 2014- which itself tells a story.

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The Spanish government have acted like absolute arseholes over this whole affair and the king refusing to criticize the heavy-handed reaction by the police is merely going to harden attitudes further.

They should've consented to a legal referendum and in all probability the status quo would've won the day and the matter could be declared settled for a generation at least. But no, a country with a very turbulent recent past hasn't so much opened old wounds as basically torn the country to shreds. Interesting few weeks ahead...

This is one of the reasons why I favour the unwritten constitution of the U.K. that has endured since 1689 - it adapts so easily to changing times; it is highly unlikely there would be a Scottish parliament today, let alone an IndyRef if we had a written constitution. Also witness the latest horrors in the US because of the anachronistic clause that is the second amendment. America hasn't needed a standing militia for 200 years.

From a football perspective, it truly is a bizarre state of affairs that the Spain national team contains a player that doesn't believe in the team he plays for (well I assume Pique is a Catalan nationalist - he certainly supported the holding of the referendum).

Thank goodness the situation in the U.K. isn't analogous or we would have a Great Britain team (I have zero interest in being British - I identify as English and supported a Yes vote in the Scottish referendum as it would've been a big step to the eventual re-emergence of England as a sovereign state).

Be interesting to see the future status of Barcelona FC though if Catalunya does break away. They are such a big club that the thought of them being expelled from the Spanish league is unthinkable - the allure of El Classico will surely be the deciding factor. But anything's possible in the event of UDI.

Things could get extremely ugly.

 

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On 10/3/2017 at 03:01, Sixtyseconds said:

If Catalonia goes down. Cornwall will be next!! It must be stopped!

Cornwall has been part of England since England existed. Having lived there for two years (inc. during the 1998 World Cup - enthusiastic support for the England team) my experience is Englishness and Cornishness are not generally mutually exclusive like say, Englishness and Scottishness are. Well, it is for a small minority but they remind me of the types of people who record their religion as "Jedi" on census forms.

I do think though that eventually the nations of the U.K. will be scattered to the four winds, and a good thing too - the U.K. is past its sell-by date.

An independent England would be an opportunity for some fairly big differences in how we are governed and I would envisage Cornwall for example having a large degree of autonomy. Then if there was a rise in nationalist sentiment big enough for a referendum it would take place. Then if they voted for separation it's good luck and bon voyage.

EDIT: Trying to keep a secessionist-minded state or province by force never ends well,  the Czech-Slovak "Velvet Divorce" is a great example of two nations going their separate ways amicably.

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39 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

The Spanish government have acted like absolute arseholes over this whole affair and the king refusing to criticize the heavy-handed reaction by the police is merely going to harden attitudes further.

They should've consented to a legal referendum and in all probability the status quo would've won the day and the matter could be declared settled for a generation at least. But no, a country with a very turbulent recent past hasn't so much opened old wounds as basically torn the country to shreds. Interesting few weeks ahead...

This is one of the reasons why I favour the unwritten constitution of the U.K. that has endured since 1689 - it adapts so easily to changing times; it is highly unlikely there would be a Scottish parliament today, let alone an IndyRef if we had a written constitution. Also witness the latest horrors in the US because of the anachronistic clause that is the second amendment. America hasn't needed a standing militia for 200 years.

From a football perspective, it truly is a bizarre state of affairs that the Spain national team contains a player that doesn't believe in the team he plays for (well I assume Pique is a Catalan nationalist - he certainly supported the holding of the referendum).

Thank goodness the situation in the U.K. isn't analogous or we would have a Great Britain team (I have zero interest in being British - I identify as English and supported a Yes vote in the Scottish referendum as it would've been a big step to the eventual re-emergence of England as a sovereign state).

Be interesting to see the future status of Barcelona FC though if Catalunya does break away. They are such a big club that the thought of them being expelled from the Spanish league is unthinkable - the allure of El Classico will surely be the deciding factor. But anything's possible in the event of UDI.

Things could get extremely ugly.

 

The EU have acted like bigger arseholes, they could and should have said that the vote was illegal and unauthorised but the violence perpetrated by the Spanish police was a disgrace and not only has to stop immediately but the worst perpetrators brought to justice.

But of course to me it's yet another reason why the EU is becoming more and more pointless and has and will continue to fail.

The EU has treated Spain like a 3rd world country with the handouts that they have received and on Sunday the police actions cemented the idea that perhaps that view was correct and Spain is indeed a 3rd world country.

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51 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

The Spanish government have acted like absolute arseholes over this whole affair and the king refusing to criticize the heavy-handed reaction by the police is merely going to harden attitudes further.

They should've consented to a legal referendum and in all probability the status quo would've won the day and the matter could be declared settled for a generation at least. But no, a country with a very turbulent recent past hasn't so much opened old wounds as basically torn the country to shreds. Interesting few weeks ahead..

 

The government is not empowered to consent to a legal referendum. It would have to go through the Spanish parliament.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

@Phileas Fogg Really? Bit surprised Atletico are that side, would have thought Real Madrid, Franco's team etc etc. That aside, I fully agree with you- will strengthen support for independence in Catalonia and the Basque country too possibly.

Yep that's how it is. Goes back to that Air Force connection if I remember correctly. 

I don't think Basque independence is realistic personally, but will increase the sense of feeling about it.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's gonna sound rather prejudiced and maybe wrong- but I've always been a bit wary of Spain, how democratic is it? The Madrid establishment especially...how really democratic is modern Spain? I read online that some of the pics of police aggression were from a general strike of 2014- which itself tells a story.

Well it's a modern country in most ways. In my experience, there are little things which we take for granted here which still haven't caught up yet in Spain. There's far more divisions in the country than here. In the older generations far less literacy too. It's democratic, but not as fair and secure as it is here. 

When I was there - there was frequent protests and demonstrations, people on hunger strike outside the Parliament buildings.. they were hit enormously hard by the recession and the current government is very traditionalist and conservative.

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9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The EU have acted like bigger arseholes, they could and should have said that the vote was illegal and unauthorised but the violence perpetrated by the Spanish police was a disgrace and not only has to stop immediately but the worst perpetrators brought to justice.

But of course to me it's yet another reason why the EU is becoming more and more pointless and has and will continue to fail.

The EU has treated Spain like a 3rd world country with the handouts that they have received and on Sunday the police actions cemented the idea that perhaps that view was correct and Spain is indeed a 3rd world country.

You'll not get any argument from me there - and Spain's disastrous membership of the Eurozone is a big part of where they are today.

This sort of civil disobedience is why the EU wants its own army, with authority to rule over national governments. Woe betide any nation or grouping that wishes to reject EU dictats or even vote on leaving - Madrid has shown what the likely response will be.

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2 minutes ago, RedZepperin said:

Come on, Esmondo. You're more intelligent than that.

What?, you think that in the 21st century the Spanish police brought into Barcelona acted like police officers should in a normal democracy? or do you believe that they were mainly nationalist thugs sent in to teach peaceful Catalan's a lesson?.

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I am no expert in the Spanish politics, but this-admittedly on Wiki- about the Spanish PM is interesting:

Early life[edit]

Aznar was born in Madrid[3] in 1953, was the son of Manuel Aznar Acedo, army official, journalist and radio broadcaster, and grandson of Manuel Aznar Zubigaray, a former Basque nationalist broadcaster turned Falangistpropagandist and a prominent journalist during the Franco era. Both father and grandfather held governmental positions during the years of Spain under Franco.

He was educated at El Pilar and studied law at the Complutense University of Madrid, graduating in 1975, becoming a Spanish Tax Authority inspector in 1976.

Politician[edit]

As a teenager, Aznar was a member of the Frente de Estudiantes Sindicalistas (FES), a Student Union supporting the Falange, Franco's one-party fascist organization. After 1977 it would become Falange Española Independiente (FEI).[4]

Obviously I am not intimating he or his party are Fascist or Franco sympathisers but it's unfortunate for this let's say...

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am no expert in the Spanish politics, but this-admittedly on Wiki- about the Spanish PM is interesting:

Early life[edit]

Aznar was born in Madrid[3] in 1953, was the son of Manuel Aznar Acedo, army official, journalist and radio broadcaster, and grandson of Manuel Aznar Zubigaray, a former Basque nationalist broadcaster turned Falangistpropagandist and a prominent journalist during the Franco era. Both father and grandfather held governmental positions during the years of Spain under Franco.

He was educated at El Pilar and studied law at the Complutense University of Madrid, graduating in 1975, becoming a Spanish Tax Authority inspector in 1976.

Politician[edit]

As a teenager, Aznar was a member of the Frente de Estudiantes Sindicalistas (FES), a Student Union supporting the Falange, Franco's one-party fascist organization. After 1977 it would become Falange Española Independiente (FEI).[4]

Obviously I am not intimating he or his party are Fascist or Franco sympathisers but it's unfortunate for this let's say...

José María Aznar has not been Spanish PM for over 13 years.

The Spanish PM is Mariano Rajoy.

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18 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

What?, you think that in the 21st century the Spanish police brought into Barcelona acted like police officers should in a normal democracy? or do you believe that they were mainly nationalist thugs sent in to teach peaceful Catalan's a lesson?.

Mainly nationalist thugs? How do I know? How the hell do you?

And yet on such flimsy information you classify Spain as a third world country.

And if thuggishness is your yardstick, where does England rank exactly?

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7 minutes ago, Malago said:

José María Aznar has not been Spanish PM for over 13 years.

The Spanish PM is Mariano Rajoy.

Wow, dunno how I got those 2 mixed up...but then I am no expert. I just googled Spanish people's party- dunno some link must have directed me to him. I think it directed me to Aznar which is...embarrassing.

However the party itself seemingly isn't a million miles from certain Franco sympathies. I got my wires crossed badly on the leader but...the party doesn't seem a great bunch from what I read.

Certainly wouldn't agree with EMB's asserton that Spain is third world. Economically not indeed.

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2 minutes ago, RedZepperin said:

Mainly nationalist thugs? How do I know? How the hell do you?

And yet on such flimsy information you classify Spain as a third world country.

And if thuggishness is your yardstick, where does England rank exactly?

I intimated that there was a perception of the EU treating Spain as if it were a 3rd world country and that the thuggish behaviour of the police towards people in Barcelona gives creedence to that perception.

I am assuming you have not seen the video of police officers in their hotel taunting the Catalans by singing nationalist songs, if you don't think that the Spanish police acted in a thuggish behaviour that is your right, but if you are in some way trying to suggest that the UK police are as bad then you are just plain wrong, because had this happened in the UK the EU would be all over this like a rash.

The truth is the Spanish government have not dealt with this very well at all in the same way that they are acting in their pursuit of Gibraltar and certainly not in a way that would expected of an EU member and ally.

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4 minutes ago, Super said:

Did find this amazing Barca and other teams only given 250 tickets for Atletico Madrid which holds 68,000.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11838/11067698/atletico-madrid-insist-barcelona-offered-same-number-of-away-tickets-as-other-la-liga-clubs

To be fair, Spanish teams really don't travel away much. Quite normal for followings to number in the very low hundreds - even the big clubs.

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