The Fulham v Bristol City Match Day Thread 15

[havanatopia]

In 1902 the Manchester City and Wales player, Di Jones, cut his knee on a shard of broken glass during a pre-season match. The wound became infected and he died. City refused to accept liability because it was a friendly. Jones, they maintained, was “not working". There was no insurance cover in place, so his wife and children received nothing. 

Until 1961 the maximum wage for a football player was capped at £20 per week and £17 during the close season. 

The intervening years saw many instances of threatened walk outs over pay yet it was not until Fulham's player Jimmy Hill under the auspices of the Professional Footballers Association that the players 'walked off the job' 56 years ago.

The decision to strike was the culmination of a campaign that had been going on almost since The League kicked off 125 years ago. When Liverpool first won the championship, in 1900/01, the average wage of their players was £7 a week. The following season The Football League introduced a maximum weekly wage of £4. A remarkable move that you would simply not witness today.

In 1920 it stood at £9, but four years later it was down to £8. Fast forward to 1953, the year of “the Matthews final”, and the upper limit was still only £15, reduced to £13 over the summer. 

Before the Second World War a footballer’s pay was above that of the average worker. By 1960, despite the advent of television and European competition, the gap had closed. 

To the consternation of the Pools companies, the strike was scheduled for Saturday 21st January. There were signs that the clubs’ resolve was weakening, with a handful of wealthy clubs alert to the advantage they might gain from being able to attract their rivals' stars. 

Even Bob Lord, the outspoken Burnley chairman, suddenly conceded there should be no wage-ceiling. In contrast, his counterpart at nearby Blackburn Rovers, Jim Wilkinson, argued that even a £30 maximum must be opposed as “it would be suicide for many clubs.” 

The chairman of the Trades Union Congress, Ted Hill, appealed to the public to boycott matches that went ahead. He also warned darkly that the labour movement would “remember the blacklegs when they finish in football and want to come back into industry.” 

Then, with 72 hours to go before the master winger became a striker and picket lines were manned at grounds around England, the League management committee persuaded the clubs to agree to abolish the maximum wage. 

The PFA, emboldened by the news, opted not to call off the strike.  There had been no mention by the League of the union’s other historic bugbear, the retain-and-transfer system, which, as the redoubtable League secretary Alan Hardaker put it candidly, “enabled a club to retain a player against his will at the end of his contract and, not only that, to pay him less money while doing so.” 

Hill and two union officials were summoned to the Ministry of Labour to negotiate with Hardaker, League president and Barnsley chairman Joe Richards and Chelsea chairman Joe Mears. The PFA again prevailed. The strike was off. 

The first player to benefit from the abolition of the maximum wage was Johny Haynes of Fulham who must have thanked fellow Cottager Jimmy Hill profusely in what was a life changing moment for many players. Haynes' salary jumped five fold to £100 per week and he became the first in history to do so.

And from the relative hardship and 'slave' like contracts that footballers were subject to came this militancy of revolt which not only changed the wage settlement but also the contracts under which players were subjected. Jimmy Hills' predecessor and first PFA Chairman was Jim Guthrie of Portsmouth who relied less on Hills' PR skills and more on old-fashioned militancy which he thrust it into the heart of the debate over pay. 

Guthrie made a well-publicised trip to Molineux to meet Billy Wright and other Wolves stars. After a dressing-room ballot, a game against Athletic Bilbao had to be cancelled. Guthrie argued that night games under the lights were outside of normal work hours and that the players should be paid overtime.

Today the balance of power has shifted towards the players. Pay levels within the higher reaches of the English game mean that certain individuals earn more in a week than Stanley Matthews and his generation made in a lifetime. 

The Bosman ruling of 1995, which gave the footballers freedom to move without a transfer fee when their contracts were up, further strengthened their position. And most would not argue that it has shifted far too much towards the players. We have Jimmy Hill's determination to blame for setting that in train and yet at the time and well into the 80's few would have begrudged the players their rising income when they usually have such a short career. 

Johny Haynes made a club record 594 league appearances for Fulham spanning 18 years from 1952 to 1970 and scoring a very impressive 146 goals as an old fashioned inside forward. Haynes died at the rather young age of 71 in 2005 but he is eternally remembered with his statue outside Craven Cottage. His England career is equally impressive with 56 England caps and 18 goals and he also captained the national team and took part in two world cups. Haynes was known as a precocious passer with neat and tidy control of the ball and his England career would surely have sent him to the 1966 World Cup were it not for a car accident which curtailed it. Driving at night along the Blackpool front after a Fulham-Blackpool game, he was involved in an accident which left his knee severely damaged. He fought his way back to play for Fulham, but was never again called upon by England though he was still only 31 when England won the 1966 World Cup.

Craven Cottage is always for me a favourite London venue. Having lived or worked nearby in the past it was a brisk walk for a 3pm or evening kick off during what I recall fondly as balmy late summer evenings in days gone by. I particularly recall that season when Kevin Keegan was in charge and City were fighting tooth and nail with them at the top of the 3rd Division. Those were particularly remembered matches. I hope the evening kick off today is at least a dry one. Enjoy a nice pint of Fullers and enjoy the game y'all and help City bring back the 3 points.

My thanks to the EFL for much of the text of this match thread and I humbly remove the word 'Official' from this day forward; what was I thinking. !

Edited October 31, 2017 by havanatopia

[Atyeo's lift]

Thanks again for a great thread start, Hav. How things have changed, I remember the crisis over the max wage very well, but despite my years, I have never been to Craven Cottage, and tonight will be no different, I'm afraid. City ro win 2-1

[havanatopia]

1 minute ago, Atyeo's lift said:

Thanks again for a great thread start, Hav. How things have changed, I remember the crisis over the max wage very well, but despite my years, I have never been to Craven Cottage, and tonight will be no different, I'm afraid. City ro win 2-1

Welcome AL, put it on your list of 'to do's' my friend. Well worth it I feel. Lots of decent little pubs and eateries, nice tight ground, on the banks of the Thames, an autumnal evening with beech leaves falling a plenty and the red of City blazing another trail. Gorrrrrrnnnnn.

[wendyredredrobin]

I too like Craven Cottage having been there a couple of times in the 80's.  Hope we can turn them over tonight having a tough one coming up on Saturday.  Team selection may have one eye on fitness levels with that one coming up.

Up front, Fammy is out and Woodrow can't play leaving a limited choice of strikers if Milan is not yet 100%.

Being 4 points behind Cardiff means that even if we win, we cannot climb the table tonite, but 6 points from the next 2 would leave us 3rd.

Will be listening in on Radio Brizzle later.

Edited October 31, 2017 by wendyredredrobin

[Midlands Robin]

A win tonight would be great to keep the pressure on Cardiff and maintain our credentials as a genuine top 6 side. 

Interestingly the bookies are showing the odds on this game as being pretty tight which I think will be reflected on the pitch.

I'm hoping for a 2-1 win but wouldn't be too surprised to see us come away with a point. 

[Ska Junkie]

Great article Havana,

Craven cottage isn't anything special as a stadium per se but it's one everyone, myself included, seems to enjoy visiting. It's a very pleasant place to be, picturesque, friendly home fans and right on the river. As I said, the ground isn't all that but it's an away day I would highly recommend. Work commitments allowing, I will head up the M4 this afternoon hoping to see another win for the mighty reds.

1-2, Flint and Bobby.

COYR

[Major Isewater]

 Fulham have always seemed to me a club that punch above their weight . 

Being in the shadows of Arsenal , Chelsea and Spurs they still have managed some creditable honours in their history .

They are proof that smaller clubs can thrive .

Now let's hammer them . 

I'm going 1-2 to the boys in red .

A Bobby blast from 25yds out and a classic Flinty bundle in will do it .

Come on you Reds .

 

[Major Isewater]

17 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Great article Havana,

Craven cottage isn't anything special as a stadium per se but it's one everyone, myself included, seems to enjoy visiting. It's a very pleasant place to be, picturesque, friendly home fans and right on the river. As I said, the ground isn't all that but it's an away day I would highly recommend. Work commitments allowing, I will head up the M4 this afternoon hoping to see another win for the mighty reds.

1-2, Flint and Bobby.

COYR

I just scrolled up to see that we share the same vision for tonight's game , a sign ? 

Let's hope so.

[Shtanley]

See I think Flint is due a screamer, almost against Ipswich and almost against Sunderland. 3-1 Bobby bundle Flint screamer and a cool calm collected COD dink late on. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Who's already scored, Hav?

[BRISTOL86]

Tight game to be decided by a goal either way me thinks. Can’t call it!

[And Its Smith]

Delighted with a draw.  Fulham are a good team irrespective of current form 

[Offside]

I haven't been to Craven Cottage for ages - late 1990s on a freezing cold day when the away end was that big open terrace. We lost 1-0 that day I think.

We've got a good record there in recent seasons but it'll be another tough one today - aren't they all? My prediction is a draw, which would be a good point before we hopefully smash Cardiff at the weekend.

[City Rocker]

This evening will be my fifth visit to Craven Cottage, the first was in about 1986. 

City have won on all four of my previous trips. A happy hunting ground for City and me, here's to our 'joint' run continuing 

[Leveller]

I’m currently queuing at White City to see a recording of Pointless with Richard Osman.

Presumably we will both be at Craven Cottage later too.

[redsince1994]

Got CO'D to score anytime at 9/2. Been knocking on the door I reckon this is the game for him.

[PHILINFRANCE]

37 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

 Fulham have always seemed to me a club that punch above their weight . 

Being in the shadows of Arsenal , Chelsea and Spurs they still have managed some creditable honours in their history .

They are proof that smaller clubs can thrive .

Now let's hammer them . 

I'm going 1-2 to the boys in red .

A Bobby blast from 25yds out and a classic Flinty bundle in will do it .

Come on you Reds .

 

I hope you are right Major with your 2-1 prediction, but does Bobby Reid really do 25 yard (scoring) blasts?

And, even if he does, should you not be measuring such 'blasts' in metres?

[fanjita]

Here’s hoping that Cairney isn’t in the their side tonight, he’s a player that makes them tick, only just come back from injury so he may not be at his best.

[PHILINFRANCE]

17 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I’m currently queuing at White City to see a recording of Pointless with Richard Osman.

Presumably we will both be at Craven Cottage later too.

I recall his managerial stint at City was pretty boring, but I didn't know they had actually made a show out of it.

I hope you can both stay awake long enough to get to Craven Cottage in time for tonight's match.

[Bar BS3]

37 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Tight game to be decided by a goal either way me thinks. Can’t call it!

Fulham are probably the Jekyl & Hyde team of the division. 

If they play well, they are better than most, especially at controlling possession. IF they are off their game, then this is very winnable. 

Fingers crossed for an off night for them and everything we try, coming off! 

[BigTone]

53 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I just scrolled up to see that we share the same vision for tonight's game , a sign ? 

Let's hope so.

Make that 3 of us

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I recall his managerial stint at City was pretty boring,

Yes, but the hairdryers he had installed in the dressing room were state of the art.

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

In 1902 the Manchester City and Wales player, Di Jones, cut his knee on a shard of broken glass during a pre-season match. The wound became infected and he died. City refused to accept liability because it was a friendly. Jones, they maintained, was “not working". There was no insurance cover in place, so his wife and children received nothing. 

Until 1961 the maximum wage for a football player was capped at £20 per week and £17 during the close season. 

The intervening years saw many instances of threatened walk outs over pay yet it was not until Fulham's player Jimmy Hill under the auspices of the Professional Footballers Association that the players 'walked off the job' 56 years ago.

The decision to strike was the culmination of a campaign that had been going on almost since The League kicked off 125 years ago. When Liverpool first won the championship, in 1900/01, the average wage of their players was £7 a week. The following season The Football League introduced a maximum weekly wage of £4. A remarkable move that you would simply not witness today.

In 1920 it stood at £9, but four years later it was down to £8. Fast forward to 1953, the year of “the Matthews final”, and the upper limit was still only £15, reduced to £13 over the summer. 

Before the Second World War a footballer’s pay was above that of the average worker. By 1960, despite the advent of television and European competition, the gap had closed. 

To the consternation of the Pools companies, the strike was scheduled for Saturday 21st January. There were signs that the clubs’ resolve was weakening, with a handful of wealthy clubs alert to the advantage they might gain from being able to attract their rivals' stars. 

Even Bob Lord, the outspoken Burnley chairman, suddenly conceded there should be no wage-ceiling. In contrast, his counterpart at nearby Blackburn Rovers, Jim Wilkinson, argued that even a £30 maximum must be opposed as “it would be suicide for many clubs.” 

The chairman of the Trades Union Congress, Ted Hill, appealed to the public to boycott matches that went ahead. He also warned darkly that the labour movement would “remember the blacklegs when they finish in football and want to come back into industry.” 

Then, with 72 hours to go before the master winger became a striker and picket lines were manned at grounds around England, the League management committee persuaded the clubs to agree to abolish the maximum wage. 

The PFA, emboldened by the news, opted not to call off the strike.  There had been no mention by the League of the union’s other historic bugbear, the retain-and-transfer system, which, as the redoubtable League secretary Alan Hardaker put it candidly, “enabled a club to retain a player against his will at the end of his contract and, not only that, to pay him less money while doing so.” 

Hill and two union officials were summoned to the Ministry of Labour to negotiate with Hardaker, League president and Barnsley chairman Joe Richards and Chelsea chairman Joe Mears. The PFA again prevailed. The strike was off. 

The first player to benefit from the abolition of the maximum wage was Johny Haynes of Fulham who must have thanked fellow Cottager Jimmy Hill profusely in what was a life changing moment for many players. Haynes' salary jumped five fold to £100 per week and he became the first in history to do so.

And from the relative hardship and 'slave' like contracts that footballers were subject to came this militancy of revolt which not only changed the wage settlement but also the contracts under which players were subjected. Jimmy Hills' predecessor and first PFA Chairman was Jim Guthrie of Portsmouth who relied less on Hills' PR skills and more on old-fashioned militancy which he thrust it into the heart of the debate over pay. 

Guthrie made a well-publicised trip to Molineux to meet Billy Wright and other Wolves stars. After a dressing-room ballot, a game against Athletic Bilbao had to be cancelled. Guthrie argued that night games under the lights were outside of normal work hours and that the players should be paid overtime.

Today the balance of power has shifted towards the players. Pay levels within the higher reaches of the English game mean that certain individuals earn more in a week than Stanley Matthews and his generation made in a lifetime. 

The Bosman ruling of 1995, which gave the footballers freedom to move without a transfer fee when their contracts were up, further strengthened their position. And most would not argue that it has shifted far too much towards the players. We have Jimmy Hill's determination to blame for setting that in train and yet at the time and well into the 80's few would have begrudged the players their rising income when they usually have such a short career. 

Johny Haynes made a club record 594 league appearances for Fulham spanning 18 years from 1952 to 1970 and scoring a very impressive 146 goals as an old fashioned inside forward. Haynes died at the rather young age of 71 in 2005 but he is eternally remembered with his statue outside Craven Cottage. His England career is equally impressive with 56 England caps and 18 goals and he also captained the national team and took part in two world cups. Haynes was known as a precocious passer with neat and tidy control of the ball and his England career would surely have sent him to the 1966 World Cup were it not for a car accident which curtailed it. Driving at night along the Blackpool front after a Fulham-Blackpool game, he was involved in an accident which left his knee severely damaged. He fought his way back to play for Fulham, but was never again called upon by England though he was still only 31 when England won the 1966 World Cup.

Craven Cottage is always for me a favourite London venue. Having lived or worked nearby in the past it was a brisk walk for a 3pm or evening kick off during what I recall fondly as balmy late summer evenings in days gone by. I particularly recall that season when Kevin Keegan was in charge and City were fighting tooth and nail with them at the top of the 3rd Division. Those were particularly remembered matches. I hope the evening kick off today is at least a dry one. Enjoy a nice pint of Fullers and enjoy the game y'all and help City bring back the 3 points.

My thanks to the EFL for much of the text of this match thread and I humbly remove the word 'Official' from this day forward; what was I thinking. !

Condensed Version

Fulham:

Don't cut yourself on a piece of glass.

1-2 City

[Port Said Red]

Thank you @havanatopia I very good start to the day as usual. 

Like many other people I do think that footballers wages are quite ridiculous but unfortunately they are generally funded today by Sky money or big businesses from exotic parts of the world. One wonders where that money would go if not into the players pockets. In the past the wealthy Chairmen and boards must have been raking it in (all comparative of course), in most cases there was very little sign of investment in infrastructure outside a select few. I think on balance I prefer to see the money go to the players, especially those who in turn use it wisely, and there are more of those than the nations press would have you believe.

Also, your Match Day Thread will always be the "Official" one in my eyes, whether you use it in the Title or not. 

[cidered abroad]

My first visit there was in 1957-58. Yet another season of struggle and change of Manager with Peter Doherty replacing Pat Beasley.

April 7th we beat Cardiff 2-0, then April 12th beat Barnsley 5-0 with Bert Tindill scoring a hat-trick, both home games.

19 April at Fulham, Tindill scored another three and we won 4-3. They were missing three players on international duty for Scotland and England. Johnny Haynes was one. 

When was the last time a City striker scored hat-tricks in two consecutive league games?

PS. While checking league tables for that season, I spotted that Scunthorpe & Lindsey United finished as champions of Division Three (North). They dropped "& Lindsey" during that summer. 

[Major Isewater]

11 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

My first visit there was in 1957-58. Yet another season of struggle and change of Manager with Peter Doherty replacing Pat Beasley.

April 7th we beat Cardiff 2-0, then April 12th beat Barnsley 5-0 with Bert Tindill scoring a hat-trick, both home games.

19 April at Fulham, Tindill scored another three and we won 4-3. They were missing three players on international duty for Scotland and England. Johnny Haynes was one. 

When was the last time a City striker scored hat-tricks in two consecutive league games?

PS. While checking league tables for that season, I spotted that Scunthorpe & Lindsey United finished as champions of Division Three (North). They dropped "& Lindsey" during that summer. 

Lindsey must have been well miffed ! 

[Kid in the Riot]

12 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

My first visit there was in 1957-58. Yet another season of struggle and change of Manager with Peter Doherty replacing Pat Beasley.

April 7th we beat Cardiff 2-0, then April 12th beat Barnsley 5-0 with Bert Tindill scoring a hat-trick, both home games.

19 April at Fulham, Tindill scored another three and we won 4-3. They were missing three players on international duty for Scotland and England. Johnny Haynes was one. 

When was the last time a City striker scored hat-tricks in two consecutive league games?

PS. While checking league tables for that season, I spotted that Scunthorpe & Lindsey United finished as champions of Division Three (North). They dropped "& Lindsey" during that summer. 

60 years ago, that's amazing. When was your first City game out of interest?!

[Kingswoodactor]

24 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Here’s hoping that Cairney isn’t in the their side tonight, he’s a player that makes them tick, only just come back from injury so he may not be at his best.

Think he played Saturday. Was his first game back since August, so would be nice to see Brownhill & Smith get in amongst him early doors. 

[1bristolcity]

Not sure about this one, Beaten them three times in a row their isn't it? Rule of averages say we are up against that alone to go four, probably a draw, we both draw a lot....but fingers crossed for a win.

[Edge1981]

I’d be happy with a draw and ecstatic with a win!