IMPORTANT - South Stand Display vs Cardiff

[BRISTOL86]

31 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I was under the impression we actually said yes or at the very least gave it serious consideration. That decision was swiftly reversed when the inevitable backlash occurred. 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/bristol-sport-statement-regarding-bubble-machine/

http://bristolcitysupporters.org/atmosphere-bristol-city/

 

27 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

We apparently asked for the full technical specification. That sounds more like "perhaps" than "no".

The impression I got at the time was that they said ‘can we do xyz’, we asked for more details, then swiftly said no. 

I thought at the time it all came out that everyone was getting all up in arms about something that was never actually happening thanks to that Sun article but maybe my memory is failing!

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Leveller said:

Well, a long and interesting read.

Of all the issues, the one that amazes me most is that

a) The club didn’t ask what the display actually was before agreeing to the idea

b) S82 didn’t think to volunteer the information (which they would surely have done if they had no doubts about it).

This is the main lesson for next time.

Appointing a Fans Liaison Officer that is actually fully capable of properly fulfilling the role would be a start.

[Phileas Fogg]

25 minutes ago, SonOfDjuric said:

Imo a fans liaison officer should be a separate entity to the club, they should be paid by the club as a useful asset, but otherwise have no real connection. This is why Dave L was a much better FLO. Adam Baker is a club employee he is/ was media manager, which means he’s used to being under the clubs thumb by definition. Baker is too involved with the club, all the staff and players know him. This shouldn’t be the case. The FLO should bridge the gap between the fans and the club and be there for the benefit of the fans, and not the club

I agree and have done ever since the appointment was made.

I think AB is very good at his main role and I would suspect, off the record, has some sympathy with the issues raised on here. The club put him in a tricky position in this role I feel and he seems like a person who actually 'gets' the support.

I feel there's a conflict of interest in how the role is currently carried out - and the situation with the role being shared with Rachel Lemar has never been truly clarified.

The FSF did this great piece and this one on a SLO and what the role should entail. I appreciate they aren't official guidelines as such, but I don't feel these are fulfilled by our club. This is exactly the sort of issue where a SLO is 100% required to communicate and be the link between supporter and club. This issue in question is almost like a textbook example of where a SLO should be involved. We've seen no evidence of that at all and I feel this isn't helped by the way the role is currently organised. 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

 

The impression I got at the time was that they said ‘can we do xyz’, we asked for more details, then swiftly said no. 

I thought at the time it all came out that everyone was getting all up in arms about something that was never actually happening thanks to that Sun article but maybe my memory is failing!

I'm fairly sure that it would've gone ahead if the reaction wasn't so angry from the support. Billingham's statement on the issue was wishy-washy and very 'political'. We, as supporters, did well there and you'd think it would be a huge learning curve for the club (it shouldn't have to be of course).. but it appears not. 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I agree and have done ever since the appointment was made.

I think AB is very good at his main role and I would suspect, off the record, has some sympathy with the issues raised on here. The club put him in a tricky position in this role I feel and he seems like a person who actually 'gets' the support.

I feel there's a conflict of interest in how the role is currently carried out - and the situation with the role being shared with Rachel Lemar has never been truly clarified.

The FSF did this great piece and this one on a SLO and what the role should entail. I appreciate they aren't official guidelines as such, but I don't feel these are fulfilled by our club. This is the sort of role where a SLO is 100% required to communicate and be the link between supporter and club. We've seen no evidence of that at all and I feel this isn't helped by the way the role is currently organised.

Does anyone know who the hell Rachel Lemar is?

I have no idea, never seen her, no idea if she posts on here in any guise

[Harry]

4 hours ago, Mighty Squirrel Kingdom said:

I'm glad you've cleared that up. Have you considered standing for Mayor in 2020?

Can I rely on your vote? 

4 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Can I just ask one simple question? If this display was not meant to be antagonistic , would you still be so keen on doing it if we had been playing Norwich City for example .

Having been in situ in the South Stand for a few games now, we felt things were progressing nicely enough to create a display involving the whole stand. A simple St George Cross was an easy place for us to start. The fact it was vs Cardiff is coincidental. We will happily do one vs Norwich - would you like to volunteer to help us. 

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the "card display", it is a shambles from start to finish.

Some 3 or 4,000 pieces of card were left by seats. The great majority of those sitting in those seats did not have a clue that the cards were there, at what stage in proceedings they should be held up and most importantly, what message or picture the whole would make. It could have been a funny picture, a political message, obscene, distasteful, insulting to individuals or groups of people.

So I suggest to those who thought of it, before you try anything similar again, that you communicate fully with the club, and all the supporters who are expected to hold up the cards.

 

3,644 to be precise. 

As mentioned earlier in this thread (but it's a long one so I'll forgive you if you missed it), you would not have known what to do with the card because we intentionally did not communicate this. Once the club changed the design we took no responsibility for it. Had it been our design you would have been fully communicated with as you entered the area as to what it was and what we would've liked you to do (it would have been personal interaction from one of us). Of course, this would still have been voluntary on your part. 

[UREDZ]

The fact the club even considered West Hams request is a joke when most clubs would of told them where to go!

[Kid in the Riot]

13 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Does anyone know who the hell Rachel Lemar is?

I have no idea, never seen her, no idea if she posts on here in any guise

And that my friend tells you a lot about how seriously some at the club take supporter consultation.

They want a compliant fan base. Makes things a lot easier.

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

On 11/4/2017 at 14:08, hoxton casual said:

No Bob we live in a parliamentary democracy, with a first past the post sytem. We shall see whose decision it was.

Person I hear was behind the change in heart was Jon Lansdown 

[Super]

54 minutes ago, Rob k said:

@Mkelly why dont you just respond and get this put to bed rather than cause anymore Bad feeling towards the club. 

You really need to explain your Bristol Post comments.

Pretty pathetic how they all go into hiding. You can guarantee it would be different if they were being praised.

[cidercity1987]

 This thread is so sad at a time when the team are doing fantastically on the pitch.

It does appear from a distance that there may be fault on both sides. The questions I would ask is:

1. Did the club explicitly ask S82 what the display was?

2. If so, did S82 say it was a red and white pattern as has been suggested, or were they upfront that it was the St George's flag?

The club made a totally wrong decision in my opinion to change the display but S82 in some ways only have themselves to blame if they were not wholly open at the beginning?

And then it is such a shame Adam and Mark, who both seem very decent and likeable blokes, haven't come on here over 2 days to clarify the situation and are getting pelters as a result.

I hope lessons can be learned both by the club (it's just a ******* flag!) and chaps of S82 (who generally do a great job, including giving up their free time) if they weren't clear with the club.

 

 

[CotswoldRed]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I was under the impression we actually said yes or at the very least gave it serious consideration. That decision was swiftly reversed when the inevitable backlash occurred. 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/bristol-sport-statement-regarding-bubble-machine/

http://bristolcitysupporters.org/atmosphere-bristol-city/

Exactly. We were falling over ourselves to look small-time. 

[Blagdon red]

3 hours ago, Leveller said:

Well, a long and interesting read.

Of all the issues, the one that amazes me most is that

a) The club didn’t ask what the display actually was before agreeing to the idea

b) S82 didn’t think to volunteer the information (which they would surely have done if they had no doubts about it).

This is the main lesson for next time.

58 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Appointing a Fans Liaison Officer that is actually fully capable of properly fulfilling the role would be a start.

These two comments hit the nail on the head for me. There appears to have been a breakdown in liaison between the supporters group and the club. Precisely what the role of SLO is designed to avoid.

Adam does a decent job in this role, but only to the extent that his time-consuming responsibilities as Head of Media permit. And they don't leave him much time to perform the SLO function in the way that it ideally ought to be performed. Hopefully this lesson might lead the club to look again at how best to operate supporter liaison in the future.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, Blagdon red said:

These two comments hit the nail on the head for me. There appears to have been a breakdown in liaison between the supporters group and the club. Precisely what the role of SLO is designed to avoid.

Adam does a decent job in this role, but only to the extent that his time-consuming responsibilities as Head of Media permit. And they don't leave him much time to perform the SLO function in the way that it ideally ought to be performed. Hopefully this lesson might lead the club to look again at how best to operate supporter liaison in the future.

Good luck with that. 

Most important would be a desire to do something. That simply isnt there imo. 

There's plenty of resource to do the job,  if it's allocated.

[marmite]

Seems to me that there is a bit of a divide opening here between the club, or Bristol Sport, and the fans. Excessive over stewarding and policing and this fuss with the card display is bringing this to a head. Does the club want us to sit on our hands during games saying "Oh I say" and "Well played sir" as in tennis and cricket? That won't happen because its a passionate game with passionate supporters. I'm in my seventies and I still jump up and shout at a bad challenge and shout and wave when we score and there are many older than me that do the same. I can remember coming to matches with a wooden rattle, flags, and scarves when I was younger. I actually never attacked anyone with either and wasn't stopped and searched when I entered the ground aged 7,17,27,37 etc; but I am now! If Bristol Sport drive away the younger element who are trying to instil some atmosphere and us older ones fade away, then they can have their corporate boxes everywhere, but the atmosphere will be dire. I don't want that to happen so the club must engage with the supporters or risk losing them. Footballs not cheap today and there are plenty of other options out there for the youngsters. Come on guys, lets sort this out now!

[CotswoldRed]

4 minutes ago, marmite said:

Seems to me that there is a bit of a divide opening here between the club, or Bristol Sport, and the fans. Excessive over stewarding and policing and this fuss with the card display is bringing this to a head. Does the club want us to sit on our hands during games saying "Oh I say" and "Well played sir" as in tennis and cricket? That won't happen because its a passionate game with passionate supporters. I'm in my seventies and I still jump up and shout at a bad challenge and shout and wave when we score and there are many older than me that do the same. I can remember coming to matches with a wooden rattle, flags, and scarves when I was younger. I actually never attacked anyone with either and wasn't stopped and searched when I entered the ground aged 7,17,27,37 etc; but I am now! If Bristol Sport drive away the younger element who are trying to instil some atmosphere and us older ones fade away, then they can have their corporate boxes everywhere, but the atmosphere will be dire. I don't want that to happen so the club must engage with the supporters or risk losing them. Footballs not cheap today and there are plenty of other options out there for the youngsters. Come on guys, lets sort this out now!

The average age of supporters is increasing and the club think the answer is WiFi, ffs. 

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Good luck with that. 

Most important would be a desire to do something. That simply isnt there imo. 

There's plenty of resource to do the job,  if it's allocated.

Yep, I’ve long since felt the club would rather not have an SLO at all and at present it’s just box-ticking which barely the minimum criteria for an SLO position.

Ideally it would be an elected paid position where the SLO is visible on match days and easily contactable outside. In my opinion the person in the role, despite being paid by the club, should feel able to question the club’s decisions and make sure fans views are always heard and respected. I’m not sure the current job share arrangement allows for that to happen. Too much conflict of interest.

The fact that it’s not done like this supports my first thought that the club would rather not have one. If they can afford to pay Gary O’Neil close to 20k per week to be perpetually injured, I’m sure they can find a bit more than that in a year to pay someone to be a proper SLO.

[RedLionLad]

6 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

The average age of supporters is increasing and the club think the answer is WiFi, ffs. 

There are a lot of youngsters coming to games these days with their parents, which all looks good in the eyes of the club.

The big test is getting these same youngsters through the turnstiles when they have to cough up £25-£35 of their own money in a few years time.

 

[Club and Country]

used to have a pop at Dave L, but he would have handled this much better, seriously, how are those 2 support liason officers?

Adam B is employed by the club, and who on earth is Lemar? does she even know this discussion is being had?

 

 

[Monkeh]

13 minutes ago, Club and Country said:

used to have a pop at Dave L, but he would have handled this much better, seriously, how are those 2 support liason officers?

Adam B is employed by the club, and who on earth is Lemar? does she even know this discussion is being had?

 

 

thats the point, Adam shouldn't be SLO, he has enough to do

[phantom]

I can honestly say I have no idea who she is

[Monkeh]

isn't supporters services just another name for Customer support or head of a call center?

[RedM]

19 minutes ago, Club and Country said:

used to have a pop at Dave L, but he would have handled this much better, seriously, how are those 2 support liason officers?

Adam B is employed by the club, and who on earth is Lemar? does she even know this discussion is being had?

 

 

I assume from your question that you don't know who she is, sorry if you do and are just making a point but she too is a club employee. I believe she is Head of Supporter Services so would be at Adam's level of authority maybe? As far as we know she does not post on this forum.

@Blagdon red with regards to your post (#471) where you say Adam is busy etc, that's precisely why two people have the role. When Adam is bust surely Rachel should take over? I assume it's not a voluntary role? 

 

[Bristol Rob]

Don't imagine that the SLO roles require with of them to engage with online forums (although this is probably one of the most efficient ways of getting a message out).

If Adam is busy and unable to comment, has anyone actually tried contacting Rachel and getting her view on this? 

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

I assume from your question that you don't know who she is, sorry if you do and are just making a point but she too is a club employee. I believe she is Head of Supporter Services so would be at Adam's level of authority maybe? As far as we know she does not post on this forum.

@Blagdon red with regards to your post (#471) where you say Adam is busy etc, that's precisely why two people have the role. When Adam is bust surely Rachel should take over? I assume it's not a voluntary role? 

 

and if she does then she should at least post here,

especially to clear things like this up or damage limitation 

Frankly its just not good enough from the club after they've been getting more and more things right they end up doing something like this 

2 steps forward 1 back @RedM

[Blagdon red]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

I assume from your question that you don't know who she is, sorry if you do and are just making a point but she too is a club employee. I believe she is Head of Supporter Services so would be at Adam's level of authority maybe? As far as we know she does not post on this forum.

@Blagdon Red with regards to your post (#471) where you say Adam is busy etc, that's precisely why two people have the role. When Adam is bust surely Rachel should take over? I assume it's not a voluntary role? 

 

Unfortunately both are very busy and already had jobs that consume all of their time when Andrew Billingham decided to place the additional SLO burden on their shoulders. I don't think either of them would argue if I said these were not extra duties that they particularly wanted.

Adam hinted at the last FAN meeting that there might be changes in the pipeline on the SLO front ... so let's wait and see and keep our fingers crossed that this time the club fully embrace the concept.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Don't imagine that the SLO roles require with of them to engage with online forums (although this is probably one of the most efficient ways of getting a message out).

I think they kind of have to really. OTIB is such a big and busy forum that if I were SLO I'd feel obliged to take part. Most effective way of interacting and getting messages out.

I think it would apply to any club given how the internet is most people's first port of call - but with OTIB being so popular I feel it's more important at Bristol City.

6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

If Adam is busy and unable to comment, has anyone actually tried contacting Rachel and getting her view on this? 

Not personally but definitely worth a go. Upon searching, she has a clearly labelled 'personal account' on Twitter but no @BristolSportRachelL like I would expect.

[phantom]

Taken from UEFA guidelines

The full document is here https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/84/35/28/1843528_DOWNLOAD.pdf

[phantom]

18 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Don't imagine that the SLO roles require with of them to engage with online forums (although this is probably one of the most efficient ways of getting a message out).

If Adam is busy and unable to comment, has anyone actually tried contacting Rachel and getting her view on this? 

@Bristol Rob Yes it is

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

@Bristol Rob Yes it is

Are those guidelines recommendations or obligations?