Poppies on shirts, guess which Club

[Ian M]

20 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Won’t the Sags be playing next weekend? Maybe they are wearing them then. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please let this be the only time I’ve defended them. I’m off to wash my body clean until such thoughts are vanquished from my mind and soul

 

 

Decent point, I just saw a sag on my timeline questioning if the reason they didn't wear poppies on their shirts and auction them off for charity afterwards was because Wally couldn't afford to replace them after.

[RedorDead BCFC]

7 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Decent point, I just saw a sag on my timeline questioning if the reason they didn't wear poppies on their shirts and auction them off for charity afterwards was because Wally couldn't afford to replace them after.

I heard that they are about to get another kick in the nuts. They’ve not paid contractors for their training ground that could go legal. 

[hoxton casual]

2 hours ago, kevster3 said:

Should check history before making such a comment, the Irish have no need to respect the horrors that British bestowed on them. 

Kevster may I point out a couple of things to educate you.

First Glasgow Celtic are a Scottish and British club, and many Scottish and British people have lost their lives in the wars principally commemorated by The Poppy.

Secondly, many Irish people fought and died in these wars as well.

I hope you will be picking up some history books today, to deepen your knowledge and not be duped by nasty sectarian reworkings of history.

[hoxton casual]

1 hour ago, Calculus said:

I think that the people that fought and died in wars to preserve our freedom would be somewhat confused by the annual intolerance shown by many on the subject of poppies. It's quite simple - if people choose not to wear poppies then they don't have to and no one should criticise their choice. (I always wear a poppy, but then that's my choice and it doesn't make me more patriotic or virtuous than the man who doesn't).

In my book anyone has the right to wear or not wear a poppy, but also anyone has the right to comment if someone does or does not wear one. The Poppy is a shared act of remembrance by a country who lost many people in wars. Whether these wars were just or not, family's lost loved ones fighting for something that was supposed to be in defence of a culture and way of life. This was the ultimate sacrifice and I am proud that as a nation we remember them. That some try to exploit it for extreme views, does not detract from this act of shared remembrance by a country. Every hamlet, village, town and city has memorials to those that were lost, and it is engraved on the shared fabric or our country's history. Most family's have grandfathers and great grandfathers that were involved and many lost. Yes we were fighting (mostly) to defend freedom and a way of life, but denying that one should be allowed to question why others do not mark this act of remembrance, is a perverse way to see what our forbears were fighting for.

[Akira]

2 hours ago, kevster3 said:

Should check history before making such a comment, the Irish have no need to respect the horrors that British bestowed on them. 

Irish? Pretty sure Celtic are a Scottish club, playing in Glasgow,last time I checked anyway... 

[Robin101]

Many Irish people volunteered to fight the nazis in WWII, yes. I'm sure the Irish honour and remember the sacrifices of these brave men. 

If the poppy was simply about the world wars, as it was originally, then I can't see why Celtic would refuse to wear the poppy.

The poppy is not just about the world wars though. Like it or not, the poppy is becoming increasingly politicised as a symbol of British sacrifice and, I think crucially, heroism. I can absolutely see why Irish Catholics would not necessarily agree with the portrayal of the British army as heroes. I don't think they should be forced to wear the poppy.

[Red Skin]

1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

It's sad though that some use the poppy as a political statement rather than for what it's intended. The poppy is a sign of remembrance for those killed in conflict - all nationalities, military and non military. 

Absolutely wrong.  The red poppy is for those from the old Empire that died fighting in every conflict.  It is not for all combatants, and not for civilian deaths.*  Its not just about defeating the evil Nazis, but those who died upholding the Empire including conflicts on Irish soil.  How anyone cannot understand why some of Irish descent or a club that has a strong irish identity would choose not participate in that is astounding.

If Germany had taken control of England in either war, how many of you would happily wear a german poppy to remember just the German soldiers that died in their colonial exploits including invading England?  

*The white poppy remembers all those that lost their life through conflict regardless of which side they fought on and all civilians too.

 

[hoxton casual]

3 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Many Irish people volunteered to fight the nazis in WWII, yes. I'm sure the Irish honour and remember the sacrifices of these brave men. 

If the poppy was simply about the world wars, as it was originally, then I can't see why Celtic would refuse to wear the poppy.

The poppy is not just about the world wars though. Like it or not, the poppy is becoming increasingly politicised as a symbol of British sacrifice and, I think crucially, heroism. I can absolutely see why Irish Catholics would not necessarily agree with the portrayal of the British army as heroes. I don't think they should be forced to wear the poppy.

No-one is saying that Celtic should be forced to wear it, but it does show what a sectarian club they are, and pointing this out is perfectly acceptable.

[Red Skin]

2 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

No-one is saying that Celtic should be forced to wear it, but it does show what a sectarian club they are, and pointing this out is perfectly acceptable.

Sectarianism is about religion.  The poppy issue is political.  There is a difference.  Everyone should have the right to choose.

[hoxton casual]

4 minutes ago, Red Army Faction said:

but those who died upholding the Empire including conflicts on Irish soil. 

That is one of the most perverse ways of seeing the poppy and the day of remembrance I have ever heard. 

[CotswoldRed]

5 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

No-one is saying that Celtic should be forced to wear it, but it does show what a sectarian club they are, and pointing this out is perfectly acceptable.

Most Celtic fans couldn't tell you what catholicism actually is. 

Sectarianism is about difference, not identity. 

[Northern Red]

57 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

BOTH of the large Glasgow clubs qualify for this description.

Outside of their own fan bases they are detested by all other Scottish football fans.

The reasons for that go way beyond the actual game itself.

Yep, two sides of the same vile, backward, bigoted coin.

As always, it's the rest of Scottish football that I feel sorry for. 

[Robin101]

10 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

No-one is saying that Celtic should be forced to wear it, but it does show what a sectarian club they are, and pointing this out is perfectly acceptable.

Well yeah Celtic are a sectarian club. Rangers just as bad. I can't say I'm a fan of either of them.

[Chappers]

It is up to each individual and each club how they choose to remember those who died in combat. I have no time for the current wave of outrage should anyone dare to deviate, the initial point of the poppy was to raise money, and remember, so that future generations do not repeat past mistakes. Many WW1 vets never wore a poppy. Recent events have shown that lessons have not been learnt. I will donate, I will wear my poppy on 11/11, I will not be dictated to by anybody, I will respect the views of others, I understand the history of Celtic FC, and refuse to jump on this jingoistic bandwagon.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, Robin101 said:

Well yeah Celtic are a sectarian club. Rangers just as bad. I can't say I'm a fan of either of them.

Yep. 

Smaller minds have more hate. 

There's no place for them.

[CotswoldRed]

2 minutes ago, Chappers said:

It is up to each individual and each club how they choose to remember those who died in combat. I have no time for the current wave of outrage should anyone dare to deviate, the initial point of the poppy was to raise money, and remember, so that future generations do not repeat past mistakes. Many WW1 vets never wore a poppy. Recent events have shown that lessons have not been learnt. I will donate, I will wear my poppy on 11/11, I will not be dictated to by anybody, I will respect the views of others, I understand the history of Celtic FC, and refuse to jump on this jingoistic bandwagon.

I think the core of the discussion has less to do with poppies - or someone's right to wear or not wear , and more to do with the fundamental bigoted reasons they aren't wearing them.

[Red Skin]

2 minutes ago, hoxton casual said:

That is one of the most perverse ways of seeing the poppy and the day of remembrance I have ever heard. 

Not really.  Its to remember every fallen British combatant and those that fought alongside them in every campaign including colonial wars.  All death in war in sad and regrettable IMHO regardless of which side.  Civilian death certainly deserves to be remembered and I don't expect your average german conscript in WW1 was any different to a British one.

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The club was set up by Irish immigrants in Glasgow.  Same with Hibs in Edinburgh. Both clubs have a massive and undeniable connection with Ireland.

I’m aware of the connection to Ireland but it doesn’t make them any less a Scottish football club playing in the Scottish league!

[Chappers]

5 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

I think the core of the discussion has less to do with poppies - or someone's right to wear or not wear , and more to do with the fundamental bigoted reasons they aren't wearing them.

Good point, but equally we need to respect the history of the club regardless of current events. It also acts as reminder to us that Britains history is not all glorious, and does have some very dark and unpleasant parts which tend to get overlooked. 

[CotswoldRed]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The club was set up by Irish immigrants in Glasgow.  Same with Hibs in Edinburgh. Both clubs have a massive and undeniable connection with Ireland.

For me the key point is that people want to continue and perpetuate difference for its own sake. 

My family were Scottish and Welsh but there's no need for me to cling to this. It serves no purpose. 

If Bristol City was set up by a bunch of Welsh blokes would there be a need to fly the Welsh flag? No - it would simply remain an interesting fact in our history, nothing more. 

When you boil it down that's all it is. "My family/history was from Ireland".... big deal - it's very brave of you to create a 'pretend army' with some vague cause while living in a western economy supported by free health care, education and welfare. Your misplaced - frankly laughable - sense of difference from your neighbours must really be a beacon to peoples all over the world suffering at the hands of dictatorships and failed states. 

Too many people act as apologists for people like this. As it's "their history" etc. Well, the same people would think I was a racist if I was to cling to history by hating the French for what Napoleon did. 

This is what we are dealing with. The acceptance of small minded people like Celtic fans and their hate-filled communities while castigating ourselves if we (the English)  don't accept everyone as equal.

[Chappers]

Let's go political. Thousands of U.K. Citizens are dying due to the phoney PIP assessments, including many Ex-Service personnel. Why does nobody get outraged about that, but can about a football team not wearing a flower on the shirt?

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, Chappers said:

Let's go political. Thousands of U.K. Citizens are dying due to the phoney PIP assessments, including many Ex-Service personnel. Why does nobody get outraged about that, but can about a football team not wearing a flower on the shirt?

Spot on. 

Which is why I'm beginning the detest where I live. 

Too many people who have a loathing for people less fortunate than themselves, not prepared to engage in humanity. 

 

[handsofclay]

It has only been a relatively recent construct for clubs to have a poppy displayed on their shirt. For a good 60 years after the last world war no clubs wore them on their shirts, yet these were worn by players who were directly affected by the last war in terms that their parents, uncles etc had fought in it. In the early part of that sixty years the players themselves would have fought in it and lost colleagues, brothers etc. Yet, despite all the intelligence displayed in the war both technologically and in espionage and cracking the enigma code etc, nobody came up with the idea of making a special football shirt incorporating a poppy! 

Perhaps these people immediately affected by the conflict thought it was enough for the individual to display their feelings towards the war dead etc by each individual choosing to wear a poppy at the appropriate time of year. The people we are remembering did die, after all, so we could all be individuals. I think they would've baulked at the idea of the poppy being forced upon people. 

Where does this poppy incorporation end? Will a supermarket start incorporating a poppy on the packaging of all their goods with an expiry date leading up to Nov 11, and then supermarkets that don't do this are boycotted and eternally shamed? Will the door of 10 Downing Street be removed from its hinges once a year and replaced with a black door incorporating a giant poppy? The permutations are endless.

[BS2 Red]

I am absolutely a supporter of the cause that the Poppy represents. The veterans of wars should be remembered, looked after and treated with respect. 

But, this annual attack on anybody that isn’t wearing one (for whatever reason) is utterly pathetic. It’s destroying the meaning of the Poppy and turning it into a far right “LOOK AT HOW PATRIOTIC I AM!” symbol. It’s absolutely become a political issue, which is sickening, it’s to remember the fallen, not to show off that you’re more British than anybody else.

A couple of years ago I was shouted at and verbally abused in a pub for not having a Poppy on display. Even though I had bought one, apparently that’s not enough for some people, I must show it at all times!

Bollocks to that. I will continue to buy one and support the appeal, but I refuse to wear one just to appease arseholes.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, handsofclay said:

It has only been a relatively recent construct for clubs to have a poppy displayed on their shirt. For a good 60 years after the last world war no clubs wore them on their shirts, yet these were worn by players who were directly affected by the last war in terms that their parents, uncles etc had fought in it. In the early part of that sixty years the players themselves would have fought in it and lost colleagues, brothers etc. Yet, despite all the intelligence displayed in the war both technologically and in espionage and cracking the enigma code etc, nobody came up with the idea of making a special football shirt incorporating a poppy! 

Perhaps these people immediately affected by the conflict thought it was enough for the individual to display their feelings towards the war dead etc by each individual choosing to wear a poppy at the appropriate time of year. The people we are remembering did die, after all, so we could all be individuals. I think they would've baulked at the idea of the poppy being forced upon people. 

Where does this poppy incorporation end? Will a supermarket start incorporating a poppy on the packaging of all their goods with an expiry date leading up to Nov 11, and then supermarkets that don't do this are boycotted and eternally shamed? Will the door of 10 Downing Street be removed from its hinges once a year and replaced with a black door incorporating a giant poppy? The permutations are endless.

It's to do with what is socially acceptable and the norm. Like it or not, if you diverge from societies norms then you are making a statement of sorts. That statement will always come under scrutiny, to determine your reasons. 

The same time period you refer to was a period where racism was the norm. That is no longer acceptable. The norms change so you've no choice but to defend yourself if you don't wish to change too. 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

this might help...but I doubt it

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Controversies+-+The+Poppy+Appeal

[steveybadger]

48 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I am absolutely a supporter of the cause that the Poppy represents. The veterans of wars should be remembered, looked after and treated with respect. 

But, this annual attack on anybody that isn’t wearing one (for whatever reason) is utterly pathetic. It’s destroying the meaning of the Poppy and turning it into a far right “LOOK AT HOW PATRIOTIC I AM!” symbol. It’s absolutely become a political issue, which is sickening, it’s to remember the fallen, not to show off that you’re more British than anybody else.

A couple of years ago I was shouted at and verbally abused in a pub for not having a Poppy on display. Even though I had bought one, apparently that’s not enough for some people, I must show it at all times!

Bollocks to that. I will continue to buy one and support the appeal, but I refuse to wear one just to appease arseholes.

How dare you denigrate the memory of our brave men and women who fought against tyranny to preserve our rights and freedom of choice, which includes whether to wear a poppy or not.

Oh hang on........

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Ah the resident ' they arent wearing a poppy , how dare they thread..'

Why people contort and go literally insane to get or force people to do something to the point that it loses all meaning is utterly beyond me. 

A football team didnt have a flower on their kit. Apparently the war dead are going to start kicking off about it any time soon. Except they arent, beause they are dead, they did what they did because politics and those civilians prisoners etc died because also politics. They are remembered so why do people get so bent out of shape over it?

The collective hive mind of humanity isnt suddenly going to forget millions of people dying needlessly and you don't actually need a single day to remind us of this fact and bring out the worst in humanity with people dictating how and why things should and have to be remembered or else.

The whole poppy facade is now a ghastly freakshow of oneupmanship and the worst points that humanity has to offer. Let people remember in their own way rather than smashing all meaning Remembrance Day had to bits in the name of showing who can remember the best.

 

 

Well said. Everyone will have their own way and I bet half the people who stood up yesterday and showed their respect, from both City and Cardiff, weren't wearing poppies. This 'how dare they not...' is just the worst form of political correctness.

[BS2 Red]

12 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

How dare you denigrate the memory of our brave men and women who fought against tyranny to preserve our rights and freedom of choice, which includes whether to wear a poppy or not.

Oh hang on........

Exactly.

Like I said I’m happy to contribute and more than happy to remember the fallen. I no longer feel any need to “show off” by wearing a Poppy though. And the far right arseholes can thank themselves for that.

[Loco Rojo]

2 hours ago, Red Army Faction said:

Absolutely wrong.  The red poppy is for those from the old Empire that died fighting in every conflict.  It is not for all combatants, and not for civilian deaths.*  Its not just about defeating the evil Nazis, but those who died upholding the Empire including conflicts on Irish soil.  How anyone cannot understand why some of Irish descent or a club that has a strong irish identity would choose not participate in that is astounding.

If Germany had taken control of England in either war, how many of you would happily wear a german poppy to remember just the German soldiers that died in their colonial exploits including invading England?  

*The white poppy remembers all those that lost their life through conflict regardless of which side they fought on and all civilians too.

 

I'm not sure Moina Michael or Anna Guerin would agree with your comments that the Poppy was intended for the Old Empire or what the intention of the Poppy was ment to achieve other than to help those effected by war - whether military (or civilians effected by war who also needed help)

In fact I'm pretty sure that as Moina supported those veterans in Georgia USA effected by war it was not at the front of her mind to create a political symbol against the English....but who knows....maybe Celtic football club know the real intention of the Poppy.

Look, my original point was that the Poppy was originally intended as a symbol of rememberence but more importantly intended to raise funds to help people who needed it.