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Video referee to be used for England v Germany


Never to the dark side

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1 hour ago, Distortia said:

The end of what?

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

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33 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

Flawed logic if I’ve ever seen it.

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3 hours ago, ooRya said:

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

We can laugh about it now, because it was Colin and the decision went in our favour.

But just imagine, last game of this season, needing just a draw to clinch a play-off place or, heaven forbid, automatic promotion, and a similar decision decision was to go against us and we just miss out.

Personally, I very much want to lose this sort of terrible decision from the game. 

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15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

We can laugh about it now, because it was Colin and the decision went in our favour.

But just imagine, last game of this season, needing just a draw to clinch a play-off place or, heaven forbid, automatic promotion, and a similar decision decision was to go against us and we just miss out.

Personally, I very much want to lose this sort of terrible decision from the game. 

That's just the point, we DO still laugh about it now. I fully understand why people argue for getting decisions right, especially if the situation that you suggest was to happen, but controversial decisions are talked about, argued over and discussed for literally years after the event. Sad to lose that IMO.

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3 minutes ago, ooRya said:

That's just the point, we DO still laugh about it now. I fully understand why people argue for getting decisions right, especially if the situation that you suggest was to happen, but controversial decisions are talked about, argued over and discussed for literally years after the event. Sad to lose that IMO.

I watch a lot of NFL with all their TV replays. Still its not a 100% fool proof system, refs still make decisions that cause the debate thay your talking about. It's all down to how that ref sees something. 

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I agree entirely that room should be left for controversial decisions - witness the recent BW simulation scenario - but modern technology should be used to rule out farcical decisions like the Freddie Sears goal, Frank Lampard's against Germany in the 2010 World Cup or even Cardiff's goal against City on Saturday.

Was the ball out? Having seen the highlights, I don't believe so, but imagine if it had been disallowed. What would Colin have said - yet another goal cheated away from him at Ashton Gate.

 

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There must be some rules attached to this otherwise every other decision will be disputed.  Is it just for goals? penalties? fouls? Fights? Can the captains request a video review? Under what circumstances can a ref request or decline? Disputed corners? throw ins? Simulation? simulation? Simulation?

Will time be added on for every review?

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It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

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5 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

my sunglasses broke, contents of my wallet went everywhere, shoe came off when bobby scored .... would relive it all again - such a euphoric feeling

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5 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

Very one sided view. You can find as many examples that would go in our favour as against us. How about our wrongly disallowed goal vs Burton, would you moan if the VAR ruled it stood and we took all three points?

In practice these things normally even themselves out, but I see no valid reason to object to potential improvements in refereeing. 

Should we go back to balls that weigh two kilos and shorts that come down to the ankles just to keep the game ‘traditional’ ?!

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I'm completely opposed to it. I don't care if the decisions go for or against my team, they and the referees who make them, are part of the game.

The players are fallible and make mistakes, so why shouldn't the referees be? It adds to the story. I accept that the VAR is just another human anyway, so there is still the potential for human error, but then really what's the point? Just let the referees make the decisions and get on with it. So long as they're not actively biased it really doesn't matter if borderline decisions are right or wrong.

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6 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

The game is already dead if cheating is the norm and a blind eye is turned in each and every game. 

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23 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

Flawed logic if I’ve ever seen it.

His last line was not flawed logic. One of the beauties of football is its the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

VAR creates two tired football rules. That will not improve football. Football is not a game of perfection, its rules are often highly subjective.

 

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Should we go back to balls that weigh two kilos and shorts that come down to the ankles just to keep the game ‘traditional’ ?!

 The weight of the ball has not altered significantly beyond the insignificant. Panelling has altered.

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It's been used in Serie A all season and will be used at the World Cup. So it's coming whether we like it or not. It definitely needs a lot of refinement as the TV refs are still actually making mistakes on some occasions. 

Here's what the president of the Italian FA said about it so far. 

"It is a great method of justice, above all, and I would like to say that at least 10 decisions have been corrected, and these have ensured sporting justice.

"Like anything, it takes time to get used to it, but as far as the time [taken for decisions] is concerned, the data shows that it is taking a bit longer than we had expected and we need to reduce the time it takes.

"But even the technology is led by humans, and humans are not perfect."

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47 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

His last line was not flawed logic. One of the beauties of football is its the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

VAR creates two tired football rules. That will not improve football. Football is not a game of perfection, its rules are often highly subjective.

 

 The weight of the ball has not altered significantly beyond the insignificant. Panelling has altered.

It was a tongue in cheek comment - don’t get me wrong I’m not in favour of changing the game unnecessarily but there really is no valid grounds to not embrace video technology - other sports have proved the validity for years. 

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1 minute ago, wendyredredrobin said:

 

 

That's a big concern.  To many pauses will ruin a game. Hope the time wasted is added on.

I think if it's used in moderation, and not relied upon to make every decision it could work, but I don't want it to kill off the pace and excitement of football.

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1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It was a tongue in cheek comment - don’t get me wrong I’m not in favour of changing the game unnecessarily but there really is no valid grounds to not embrace video technology - other sports have proved the validity for years. 

Having two tired rules for a game that does not require them for what is the top 1% of football is a valid argument not to do something.

VAR has already highlighted that football is not like other sports football because football rules frequently are subjective, and do not all deal in complete certainty - Baseball and cricket rules are not subjective - Out or in. 

The Confederation cup was a shambles using VAR because of that subjectivity.

Goals ruled out incorrectly are not given because of VAR!! 

23 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Here's what the president of the Italian FA said about it

"

His ban for racism, being a former fraudster, a prisoner ...

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