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Never to the dark side

Video referee to be used for England v Germany

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The rate England players are dropping out the video ref might end up playing.

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1 hour ago, Distortia said:

The end of what?

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

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33 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

Flawed logic if I’ve ever seen it.

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3 hours ago, ooRya said:

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

We can laugh about it now, because it was Colin and the decision went in our favour.

But just imagine, last game of this season, needing just a draw to clinch a play-off place or, heaven forbid, automatic promotion, and a similar decision decision was to go against us and we just miss out.

Personally, I very much want to lose this sort of terrible decision from the game. 

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15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

We can laugh about it now, because it was Colin and the decision went in our favour.

But just imagine, last game of this season, needing just a draw to clinch a play-off place or, heaven forbid, automatic promotion, and a similar decision decision was to go against us and we just miss out.

Personally, I very much want to lose this sort of terrible decision from the game. 

That's just the point, we DO still laugh about it now. I fully understand why people argue for getting decisions right, especially if the situation that you suggest was to happen, but controversial decisions are talked about, argued over and discussed for literally years after the event. Sad to lose that IMO.

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3 minutes ago, ooRya said:

That's just the point, we DO still laugh about it now. I fully understand why people argue for getting decisions right, especially if the situation that you suggest was to happen, but controversial decisions are talked about, argued over and discussed for literally years after the event. Sad to lose that IMO.

I watch a lot of NFL with all their TV replays. Still its not a 100% fool proof system, refs still make decisions that cause the debate thay your talking about. It's all down to how that ref sees something. 

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I agree entirely that room should be left for controversial decisions - witness the recent BW simulation scenario - but modern technology should be used to rule out farcical decisions like the Freddie Sears goal, Frank Lampard's against Germany in the 2010 World Cup or even Cardiff's goal against City on Saturday.

Was the ball out? Having seen the highlights, I don't believe so, but imagine if it had been disallowed. What would Colin have said - yet another goal cheated away from him at Ashton Gate.

 

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There must be some rules attached to this otherwise every other decision will be disputed.  Is it just for goals? penalties? fouls? Fights? Can the captains request a video review? Under what circumstances can a ref request or decline? Disputed corners? throw ins? Simulation? simulation? Simulation?

Will time be added on for every review?

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It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

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5 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

my sunglasses broke, contents of my wallet went everywhere, shoe came off when bobby scored .... would relive it all again - such a euphoric feeling

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5 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

Very one sided view. You can find as many examples that would go in our favour as against us. How about our wrongly disallowed goal vs Burton, would you moan if the VAR ruled it stood and we took all three points?

In practice these things normally even themselves out, but I see no valid reason to object to potential improvements in refereeing. 

Should we go back to balls that weigh two kilos and shorts that come down to the ankles just to keep the game ‘traditional’ ?!

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How many times must Sears 'goal' be brought up. The referee knew it was a goal but disallowed it due to a foul in the build up. Surely this is common knowledge by now. :)

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I'm completely opposed to it. I don't care if the decisions go for or against my team, they and the referees who make them, are part of the game.

The players are fallible and make mistakes, so why shouldn't the referees be? It adds to the story. I accept that the VAR is just another human anyway, so there is still the potential for human error, but then really what's the point? Just let the referees make the decisions and get on with it. So long as they're not actively biased it really doesn't matter if borderline decisions are right or wrong.

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6 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

It was trialled in the confederations cup and other tournaments and has been a complete disaster.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/watch-dutch-super-cup-hit-var-controversy-feyenoord-have-goal-ruled-out-and-referee-awards%3famp

I'm with ooRya in that it would completely kill the game. 

Lets take Brentford away from earlier this season for example. Anyone who was there on that terrace will tell you how absolutely incredible the celebrations were when Bobby smashed it in in the 98th minute, and it's moments like that why we go to the football. 

Now imagine that scenario with VAR. Bobby scores, we half heartedly celebrate because we know the goal is going to be reviewed by the referee. We then have to wait around for 2 minutes for the ref to make his decision, the moment is now completely gone. Because of the shameful Championship standard of refereeing, the referee spots a minor, irrelevant incident in the build up to the goal. The goal is disallowed and Brentford are awarded a free kick. 

No thanks.

The game is already dead if cheating is the norm and a blind eye is turned in each and every game. 

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23 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

Flawed logic if I’ve ever seen it.

His last line was not flawed logic. One of the beauties of football is its the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

VAR creates two tired football rules. That will not improve football. Football is not a game of perfection, its rules are often highly subjective.

 

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Should we go back to balls that weigh two kilos and shorts that come down to the ankles just to keep the game ‘traditional’ ?!

 The weight of the ball has not altered significantly beyond the insignificant. Panelling has altered.

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It's been used in Serie A all season and will be used at the World Cup. So it's coming whether we like it or not. It definitely needs a lot of refinement as the TV refs are still actually making mistakes on some occasions. 

Here's what the president of the Italian FA said about it so far. 

"It is a great method of justice, above all, and I would like to say that at least 10 decisions have been corrected, and these have ensured sporting justice.

"Like anything, it takes time to get used to it, but as far as the time [taken for decisions] is concerned, the data shows that it is taking a bit longer than we had expected and we need to reduce the time it takes.

"But even the technology is led by humans, and humans are not perfect."

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47 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

His last line was not flawed logic. One of the beauties of football is its the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

VAR creates two tired football rules. That will not improve football. Football is not a game of perfection, its rules are often highly subjective.

 

 The weight of the ball has not altered significantly beyond the insignificant. Panelling has altered.

It was a tongue in cheek comment - don’t get me wrong I’m not in favour of changing the game unnecessarily but there really is no valid grounds to not embrace video technology - other sports have proved the validity for years. 

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Human error is part of the game imo. Football is an intense sport, if it becomes like the shitey "NFL pause every 30 seconds to make a decision" system, it'll be awful.

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1 minute ago, ZiderEyed said:

Human error is part of the game imo. Football is an intense sport, if it becomes like the shitey "NFL pause every 30 seconds to make a decision" system, it'll be awful.

That's a big concern.  To many pauses will ruin a game. Hope the time wasted is added on.

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1 minute ago, wendyredredrobin said:

 

 

That's a big concern.  To many pauses will ruin a game. Hope the time wasted is added on.

I think if it's used in moderation, and not relied upon to make every decision it could work, but I don't want it to kill off the pace and excitement of football.

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1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

It was a tongue in cheek comment - don’t get me wrong I’m not in favour of changing the game unnecessarily but there really is no valid grounds to not embrace video technology - other sports have proved the validity for years. 

Having two tired rules for a game that does not require them for what is the top 1% of football is a valid argument not to do something.

VAR has already highlighted that football is not like other sports football because football rules frequently are subjective, and do not all deal in complete certainty - Baseball and cricket rules are not subjective - Out or in. 

The Confederation cup was a shambles using VAR because of that subjectivity.

Goals ruled out incorrectly are not given because of VAR!! 

23 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Here's what the president of the Italian FA said about it

"

His ban for racism, being a former fraudster, a prisoner ...

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It's all opinions, but for the life of me, I can't understand why people want there to be a chance of incorrect decisions occurring. It's bizarre.

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3 minutes ago, Distortia said:

It's all opinions, but for the life of me, I can't understand why people want there to be a chance of incorrect decisions occurring. It's bizarre.

Don't think people are saying that, just that it's a double edged sword.

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5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Having two tired rules for a game that does not require them for what is the top 1% of football is a valid argument not to do something.

VAR has already highlighted that football is not like other sports football because football rules frequently are subjective, and do not all deal in complete certainty - Baseball and cricket rules are not subjective - Out or in. 

The Confederation cup was a shambles using VAR because of that subjectivity.

Goals ruled out incorrectly are not given because of VAR!! 

His ban for racism, being a former fraudster, a prisoner ...

I’m guessing the scope and application of video technology will change dramatically if and when it’s use becomes more widespread. 

The more human error that can be eliminated from the job of officiating, the better. Not saying that in its current guise it’s good or bad, my argument is simply that ‘I don’t want the game to change because it’s different to what I know’ isn’t a valid excuse to refuse to embrace technology. 

I think everyone would agree that goal line technology is a roaring success. 

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10 minutes ago, Distortia said:

It's all opinions, but for the life of me, I can't understand why people want there to be a chance of incorrect decisions occurring. It's bizarre.

Do you want there to be a chance of a striker missing an easy chance or a goalkeeper throwing the ball into their own net?

The game would be "better" if there wasn't any chance of that, but would it be more fun to watch?

Referees are part of the game, as much as the players, and there are good and bad ones, popular and unpopular ones. Remove that and you've removed a dimension of the game.

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30 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’m guessing the scope and application of video technology will change dramatically if and when it’s use becomes more widespread. 

The more human error that can be eliminated from the job of officiating, the better. Not saying that in its current guise it’s good or bad, my argument is simply that ‘I don’t want the game to change because it’s different to what I know’ isn’t a valid excuse to refuse to embrace technology. 

I think everyone would agree that goal line technology is a roaring success. 

Completely altering the structure (rules) of football for the very few is a valid reason not to do something. It is not a luddite argument. Football has rules that are universal. This is the game, not two games. Nobody has explained why changing this will be of benefit for football as a whole.

 

 

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Could have used it in the world cup game against them. 

We would have had another goal, I mean we still would have lost. But we would have had another goal. 

:laugh: 

 

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55 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Do you want there to be a chance of a striker missing an easy chance or a goalkeeper throwing the ball into their own net?

The game would be "better" if there wasn't any chance of that, but would it be more fun to watch?

Referees are part of the game, as much as the players, and there are good and bad ones, popular and unpopular ones. Remove that and you've removed a dimension of the game.

There are rules such as the offside rule that exist in black and white. IMO they should be obeyed to the maximum possible level of accuracy, whether that includes the use of technology or not. As they are completely binary I really don't see how you can compare them to striker missing chances, etc. They exist for a reason.

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Hmm, I dont know tbh.

The only way I'd accept having a VAR is for moments when the ref goes up to one of the linesman and has a little chat to debate over what has just happened, and then only calling for the VAR if both of them are unsure. Leave the rest of the decisions to the ref on the field.

But I dont think it will change the way goals are given/disallowed because I thought that was what goal line technology was for? (Introduced to the Championship for the 2017/2018 season so we are in its first year)

Having said that however, will all fouls inside the penalty spot now await VAR to determine if it was a foul or a dive?

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41 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Completely altering the structure (rules) of football for the very few is a valid reason not to do something. It is not a luddite argument. Football has rules that are universal. This is the game, not two games. Nobody has explained why changing this will be of benefit for football as a whole.

 

 

I don’t understand any of this. I think I’ve missed something.

At a fundamental level, ignoring the current scope/applications, video technology that can reduce human error can only be a good thing.

To dismiss it on the grounds of ‘it’s not the game I know’ (as some do) seems short sighted.

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Completely altering the structure (rules) of football for the very few is a valid reason not to do something. It is not a luddite argument. Football has rules that are universal. This is the game, not two games. Nobody has explained why changing this will be of benefit for football as a whole.

I wholeheartedly agree that the rules of football should be the same regardless of level.

However, I’m not sure that VAR would do anything to change that.

The rules (e.g. the offside rule) remain exactly the same but, at the top level, their ability to enforce these rules will be increased.

The rules are not changed by the fact that top clubs can employ full time staff to maintain the pitch, while grassroots teams play on bobbly quagmires. The rules are not changed by the balls being of much better quality (to the point that, according to Guardiola at least*, even our second domestic cup has awful balls). More pertinently, the rules are not changed by the very referees tasked with enforcing them being more experienced, better trained, and much fitter than those you might see on a Sunday morning in the park.

They are already able to make better decisions than at grassroots level. This merely makes their decision making n% better again.

Goalline technology isn’t installed at every pitch in the country - it’s only just in our second tier - yet the rule of “over the line = goal” hasn’t changed.

Speaking of which, I know people who, before goalline technology was introduced, weren’t aware of how much a ball could look over the line when in fact it wasn’t, due to the curvature. In terms of benefit for football as a whole, this means they now debate and argue with refs far less than they did, because they understand the job they have to do far more comprehensively.

If at the highest levels - the televised levels, remember - we can further this education, so as to highlight the difficult nature of fractional offside decisions, or point out how the referee can’t see everything, and those things they do see happen in the blink of an eye, with the ability to help them and thus avoid the barrage of criticism they face week in, week out, well... then, perhaps, the players in the park leagues might take a bit more notice, may threaten the referees (doing it for “fun”, essentially) a bit less, which may in turn reduce the number of refs (particularly young refs) packing it in, meaning those park leagues don’t have a shortage of officials, leading to the matches being able to be officiated at a better standard.... I could go on.

Any opportunity to improve the standard of decision making is an opportunity it would be foolish to ignore. Is it going to work perfectly, immediately? Of course not. In cricket, they’re still debating DRS every bleeding Test series the world over and it’s been used for nigh on 10 years. Is VAR going to be the best version? Who knows? It’s the first. We have to start somewhere.

And in terms of those saying “the referee (and their mistakes) is part of the game”, I’ll just have to fundamentally disagree, really. You can have a game of football without a referee. If everyone was honest, they could referee themselves. Human nature dictates, however, that this is foolishly idealistic, and thus a referee is required to enable the game, but nowhere in the rules does it say “a goal is scored when the ball completely crosses the goal line, between the two posts and beneath bar, unless the referee doesn’t see it in which case all that is achieved is that you have something to talk about afterwards”.

 

Anyway, I wrote more than I was intending. I’ll go back to watching YouTube videos of Kieran Agard.

 

 

*obviously I’m using Guardiola’s little tantrum with my tongue firmly in my cheek. He’s talking codswallop.

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16 hours ago, Distortia said:

There are rules such as the offside rule that exist in black and white. IMO they should be obeyed to the maximum possible level of accuracy, whether that includes the use of technology or not. As they are completely binary I really don't see how you can compare them to striker missing chances, etc. They exist for a reason.

Offside might be binary (though it's a lot more complex than it used to be) but it still relies on a judgement by a person and that person is part of the game and can make mistakes that cause a goal to be scored or not, just as a player can.

In the case of a VAR, rather than removing a human it would add another human, with more time to make their decision. That might improve the quality of the decision but it does not improve the game, nor the narrative.

A complete technology-based solution, were one to exist, would remove the responsibility entirely from the referees and that might get more decisions "right" but it would reduce the depth of the game by removing an element of chance.

I watch football to be entertained. I want everyone doing their best to do their jobs correctly but I won't get upset if they make a mistake, no matter what the consequences. It's more important that the game is interesting than that it is "right".

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Occasionally the ref will go to one side and speak with his assistants to check something. If it takes the same amount of time to consult to the video ref, then I don't see a problem.

Bear in mind that there will be a camera following ball, any decision being watched on a screen should be fairly quick I would imagine. The only delay would be if they have to go back for an off the ball incident, which to be fair the ref will spend time consulting with his assistants if he didn't see it anyway, so it should just be an extra pair of eyes to check  especially if they can rewind and see it. The pitchside officials won't have that luxury.

If it's gets to stopping every couple of minutes, then it will become a problem.

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19 hours ago, RedYoshi said:

I wholeheartedly agree that the rules of football should be the same regardless of level.

However, I’m not sure that VAR would do anything to change that.

The rules (e.g. the offside rule) remain exactly the same but, at the top level, their ability to enforce these rules will be increased.

The rules are not changed by the fact that top clubs can employ full time staff to maintain the pitch, while grassroots teams play on bobbly quagmires. The rules are not changed by the balls being of much better quality (to the point that, according to Guardiola at least*, even our second domestic cup has awful balls). More pertinently, the rules are not changed by the very referees tasked with enforcing them being more experienced, better trained, and much fitter than those you might see on a Sunday morning in the park.

They are already able to make better decisions than at grassroots level. This merely makes their decision making n% better again.

Goalline technology isn’t installed at every pitch in the country - it’s only just in our second tier - yet the rule of “over the line = goal” hasn’t changed.

Speaking of which, I know people who, before goalline technology was introduced, weren’t aware of how much a ball could look over the line when in fact it wasn’t, due to the curvature. In terms of benefit for football as a whole, this means they now debate and argue with refs far less than they did, because they understand the job they have to do far more comprehensively.

If at the highest levels - the televised levels, remember - we can further this education, so as to highlight the difficult nature of fractional offside decisions, or point out how the referee can’t see everything, and those things they do see happen in the blink of an eye, with the ability to help them and thus avoid the barrage of criticism they face week in, week out, well... then, perhaps, the players in the park leagues might take a bit more notice, may threaten the referees (doing it for “fun”, essentially) a bit less, which may in turn reduce the number of refs (particularly young refs) packing it in, meaning those park leagues don’t have a shortage of officials, leading to the matches being able to be officiated at a better standard.... I could go on.

Any opportunity to improve the standard of decision making is an opportunity it would be foolish to ignore. Is it going to work perfectly, immediately? Of course not. In cricket, they’re still debating DRS every bleeding Test series the world over and it’s been used for nigh on 10 years. Is VAR going to be the best version? Who knows? It’s the first. We have to start somewhere.

And in terms of those saying “the referee (and their mistakes) is part of the game”, I’ll just have to fundamentally disagree, really. You can have a game of football without a referee. If everyone was honest, they could referee themselves. Human nature dictates, however, that this is foolishly idealistic, and thus a referee is required to enable the game, but nowhere in the rules does it say “a goal is scored when the ball completely crosses the goal line, between the two posts and beneath bar, unless the referee doesn’t see it in which case all that is achieved is that you have something to talk about afterwards”.

 

Anyway, I wrote more than I was intending. I’ll go back to watching YouTube videos of Kieran Agard.

 

 

*obviously I’m using Guardiola’s little tantrum with my tongue firmly in my cheek. He’s talking codswallop.

The rules of football will change to accommodate VAR. At the Con Fed cup the rules were altered to allow refs to look at objectivity. A protocol had to be put in place to use it. It affected the game. It was a different game.

 

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On 08/11/2017 at 12:11, ooRya said:

The beginning of the end.......................

I think we are in the minority, but I tend to agree with you.

 

Penalties, offsides, throw-ins, corners, fouls, violent conduct, simulation, handball, time-wasting, deflections etc etc   There is no end to the types of decisions that footballers and managers will contest. Once stopping the game for the so-called game changing decisions is allowed,  there will will always be someone who wants it used for the next thing. NOT for me.

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On 08/11/2017 at 14:27, ooRya said:

Of football. For me anyway.

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I fully understand when people argue for decisions to be given correctly, and share the frustrations of having terrible referees lately, but for me good/bad decisions by referees are all part and parcel of the game, and one of the things that helps make football the spectacle that it is.

Over 50 years ago, Geoff Hurst "scored" a goal that never should have stood and this is still talked about today 50 years later! Do we really want to lose that from the game? Or the Palace goal that wasn't given?

How many times have we been sat enduring a dour 0-0 game, when suddenly the ref makes a howler and the game/atmosphere immediately springs to life?

Players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, IMO referees should also be allowed to make mistakes.

I also think that the rules for a game of football should be the same for every game, whether a World cup final, or a Downs league game.

I do see where you're coming from, it can create an atmosphere out of nothing.

However, I think with the amount of money in football these days a wrong decision can cost millions. I completely understand why the video ref is required.

 

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On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 14:27, ooRya said:

 

If I ever see a referee stand and make a "TV" sign and wait for a response, that will be the last time I ever attend a football match.

I think you`re much more likely to see a bunch of players in the ref`s face making `TV` signs TBH and once a referee gives in to it that will be the beginning of the end IMO.

Still, it will give Colin yet another signal to do on the touchline.

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On 09/11/2017 at 15:57, wendyredredrobin said:

As holding and shirt pulling goes on at eveey corner, will every goal scored from a corner now be disallowed?

They should be. Maybe then people won't pull shirts . Like they don't in most other team sports like basketball, hockey etc. 

Not difficult. 

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