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It all kicked off in Bristol (Merged)


CyderInACan

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Deep.

But it isn't.

Ye Olde back in the day anything was game to give the away fans bad vibrations.

Anything.

It was attack and  counter attack.

Nasty to them nasty to thy.

Even saw City black dudes giving Devon White racist abuse ... Is that racist? Dunno.

The units in Lumbers Mob who were black , the lesser units who were Asian and Italian, and their firm kept the NF and BNP at bay unlike territory elsewhere. 

70's and 80's Football, gigs, pubs it was warty.

 

 

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20 hours ago, BigTone said:

Sadly they did. Back then there was no concept of fair game just meat heads with not a brain cell between them.

I can remember going to a Wales v England international at Ninian Park just as the Falklands war started.

Sadly, the Wales fans were chanting Argentina at us. They obviously had no concept that Welsh sailors and soldiers were about to die as well as other British forces. It just goes to show how stupid some people are.

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23 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I can remember going to a Wales v England international at Ninian Park just as the Falklands war started.

Sadly, the Wales fans were chanting Argentina at us. They obviously had no concept that Welsh sailors and soldiers were about to die as well as other British forces. It just goes to show how stupid some people are.

sorry PB......could be wrong but sure the welsh chant argentina as a piss take referring to maradona and 86 world cup......couldn't see em taking the mick out people like simon Weston etc

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3 hours ago, archie andrews said:

sorry PB......could be wrong but sure the welsh chant argentina as a piss take referring to maradona and 86 world cup......couldn't see em taking the mick out people like simon Weston etc

No mate, this was 4 years before the 86 World Cup! 

It was 100% Falklands war related. The game was played on the 27th April 1982 ( just looked the date up). The Falklands war started on April 2nd 1982.

Simon Weston was unheard of then, but a couple of months later everyone knew who he was.

I know, and everyone else at the game knew what the chant related to. 

It was another example of some football fans not thinking before chanting.

 

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14 hours ago, Newquay-Red said:

Paul, having finished this book I must say there are a lot of profound contradictions here. You maintain an attitude that you never went for the 'scarfers', yet the very first chapter depicts you leading a brutal attack on a bunch of innocent Rovers fans who were most likely just there for the game. That is just nothing short of pathetic and a disgrace to the club. Many of your anecdotes are told in identical structures to the point where it conforms to a generic formula if 'We went to ____, found ____ and gave them a good hiding. We fought with the best!! etc etc'.

I can't help but feel there is a victim complex about you. Weirdly enough, policemen don't take kindly to known violent hooligans so why are you surprised at your treatment?  Your European tours contain particularly graphic scenes, all of which you funded by shoplifting. Did you expect a key to the best room in the British Embassy or something as a result of that behaviour?

I did enjoy some aspects, and how the book revealed a long gone element of supporter culture. I was interested by it in the same way that people slow down when they see car crashes. There are some hilarious stories in there, particularly the lock on the Tote End. I also found your story about the Stockport hooligans very funny. However most of it just gels together if you read it in one sitting to the point where it doesn't even become shocking any more.

For offering me a glimpse into a culture that existed before I was born and one that is often censored or difficult to learn about, I thank you. However, many stories really just reinforce the image of a pi**ed up sunburnt English hooligan wanting to fight for no rational reason. If there was a compliment I could think of, it's that thank god you are on this side! I hope the cost of the book goes towards helping your family and children, otherwise I can't help but feel a bit of buyers remorse on this one.

Thanks for the balanced review...I was going to buy it out of a passing interest but will give it a miss.

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Making no excuses for those chants (which I remember well) but Cardiff home and away were seriously dangerous games to attend. You were most likely to have a row IMO. I went to many of them in the 80s. Newport away was also a lively affair as they had a very active mob also. 

Nowadays apart from a bit of banter, Severnside derbies are fairly tame affairs apart from the odd bit of trouble. It was a different culture in the 80s and 90s compared to today. Hatred is too nice a word to describe anything Welsh in them days. Football culture in bygone eras was so different to today.  

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1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

Making no excuses for those chants (which I remember well) but Cardiff home and away were seriously dangerous games to attend. You were most likely to have a row IMO. I went to many of them in the 80s. Newport away was also a lively affair as they had a very active mob also. 

Nowadays apart from a bit of banter, Severnside derbies are fairly tame affairs apart from the odd bit of trouble. It was a different culture in the 80s and 90s compared to today. Hatred is too nice a word to describe anything Welsh in them days. Football culture in bygone eras was so different to today.  

Personally ithink the 70’s was worse than the 80’s & 90’s

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On 12/02/2018 at 22:26, ziderheadarmy said:

Did city fans seriously use Aberfan as a way to wind up Cardiff?

I was born after Aberfan happened but I have read up on it and using the deaths of a generation of children can’t surely be fair game?

I never agreed with, or ever joined in with, the Aberfan chants....that was an horrific tragedy that should never have been used to wind up opposing football fans...

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20 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

You have to bear in mind that there were only 3 TV channels back then, just a few radio stations and most kids spent lots of time outside the house.  Even if the TV News was on, you never really listened to it, it was just a noise in the corner of the room.  Local newspapers wouldn't have reported it, just the Nationals. There was no Internet, no phones and sometimes, no electricity. Unless something happened in your neighbourhood, you probably didn't ever get to hear about it.

To most young City fans back then, it was just a Welsh name, which I'm guessing half the people chanting it, had no idea what it was all about. As far as I recall, It was never chanted at any other games than the Cardiff ones.

But the words to the chant made it obvious that City fans were taunting the welsh about kids being killed...it was just wrong

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14 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

 

70's and 80's Football, gigs, pubs it was warty.

 

 

I can remember a school friend being stopped outside a pub, a man inspecting the badge he was wearing then head butting him because it stated "Crass". Wearing the wrong clothes saw people being pursued up streets by gangs on motorbikes. Bath, BATH of all places had skinhead gangs. Football, music, politics and youth culture was frequently violent

It all can be put in the context of time. Paul Lumbers book good or bad  is part of that social history. 

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6 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

But the words to the chant made it obvious that City fans were taunting the welsh about kids being killed...it was just wrong

wrong yes, but mix football with rivalry, booze and mob mentality and the results are often predictable.  Then, further, as @Cowshed mentions, you have the context of the time when the football scene was decidedly more 'lively'. People got carried away, significantly so in many instances. Not one person on here is in any way defending the chants, and I  think the retrospective honesty / regret is to be applauded. 

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14 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

I can remember going to a Wales v England international at Ninian Park just as the Falklands war started.

Sadly, the Wales fans were chanting Argentina at us. They obviously had no concept that Welsh sailors and soldiers were about to die as well as other British forces. It just goes to show how stupid some people are.

As bad as the Jocks can be on occasion. Celebrating the death of their own.

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26 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I remember my late sister phoning home from New Zealand when Manchester Utd fans went on a rampage down Coronation Road, because it had made headline news there. 

Just about every shop window smashed in North Street that day too iirc.

Someone I know was driving away from the 2nd division game v Man.Utd, just entering Coronation Road from Ashton Road when he accidentally knocked over a rampaging Man.Utd fan who had ran across his path, sending him flying.

He was just about to get out of the car to see how he was when a policeman charged over and frantically motioned for him to wind down the window.

He thought he was in trouble but the policeman just shouted. 'Drive on, drive on, get the hell out of here!'

We were parked over by the Nova Scotia that day and when we got back to the car you could still hear one hell of a racket coming from the direction of AG.

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46 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I never agreed with, or ever joined in with, the Aberfan chants....that was an horrific tragedy that should never have been used to wind up opposing football fans...

Definitely a sensitive point with my Dad, a lifelong City fan. Was at Cardiff university at the time of the disaster and was there as a volunteer in the subsequent clean up operation. He's never talked much about it.

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2 hours ago, Nicki's soulmate said:

Going to places like Cardiff, Birmingham, and Millwall the early 70's was hard work, no hiding in pubs and claiming a result

Cardiff was always the best crack though Millwall and Brum was fun.

Got done twice in them days and got probation and then 12 months .We had a good bunch of lads mostly from Hartcliffe,Withywood,Bedminster and Southmead.We ran our own coach and all looked after each other...Nobody ran although once or twice i shat myself

We made songs up about anything in them days and Aberfan just happened to be one.....I don't think anyone thought about what really happened over there regarding the kids.It was just a song to wind up the Taffs.

 

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Football hooligans are a funny enigma. 

When I was a teenager I remember idolizing them, thought it was brilliant. The beer, banter, belonging, clothes etc. Got into some trouble on away days and stuff too, notably Cardiff.

Looking back with older eyes, it's quite tragic really and glad I've grown up. 

I still cringe when seeing the 'CYF' (City Frontline Youth) in their matching Stone Island T-Shirts and expensive clothes paid for on Mum's credit card, but I have to remember we were like that once upon a time and it's a phase you learn from and grow out of.

 

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22 minutes ago, BobbyC said:

We made songs up about anything in them days and Aberfan just happened to be one.....I don't think anyone thought about what really happened over there regarding the kids.It was just a song to wind up the Taffs.

 

The big difference between now and back then, was there were no repercussions.....and no way of being identified doing anything wrong inside the stadium. It was a time when all sorts of nasty things were being mentioned by the majority of fans in the EE. Racism, Sexism, and many other 'ism's' , although completely wrong, were bog standard.

Times have changed (for the better).  If just one person chanted Aberfan today, he'd be removed, arrested and banned......and quite rightly so.

 

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29 minutes ago, SARJ said:

Football hooligans are a funny enigma. 

When I was a teenager I remember idolizing them, thought it was brilliant. The beer, banter, belonging, clothes etc. Got into some trouble on away days and stuff too, notably Cardiff.

Looking back with older eyes, it's quite tragic really and glad I've grown up. 

I still cringe when seeing the 'CYF' (City Frontline Youth) in their matching Stone Island T-Shirts and expensive clothes paid for on Mum's credit card, but I have to remember we were like that once upon a time and it's a phase you learn from and grow out of.

 

I think one of the issues now is, young lads dont have anything to attach themselves too. There arnt any youth groups, no boys clubs, for a lot of young lads being part of something at football is the only part of the week they can feel they are part of something.

Even going through the eras there has always been something, mods rockers, skinheads etc. What do young lads have now days?

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9 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

The big difference between now and back then, was there were no repercussions.....and no way of being identified doing anything wrong inside the stadium. It was a time when all sorts of nasty things were being mentioned by the majority of fans in the EE. Racism, Sexism, and many other 'ism's' , although completely wrong, were bog standard.

Times have changed (for the better).  If just one person chanted Aberfan today, he'd be removed, arrested and banned......and quite rightly so.

 

as someone who acted like a moron on occasion in the 90s, especially following England, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that episode occurred before youtube / social media, etc. We've all been young, and many of us were stupid. We've dodged a bullet! Those who are young and stupid now get no second chance before they're crucified in public and hung out to dry. 

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28 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

The big difference between now and back then, was there were no repercussions.....and no way of being identified doing anything wrong inside the stadium. It was a time when all sorts of nasty things were being mentioned by the majority of fans in the EE. Racism, Sexism, and many other 'ism's' , although completely wrong, were bog standard.

Times have changed (for the better).  If just one person chanted Aberfan today, he'd be removed, arrested and banned......and quite rightly so.

 

Just to confirm your point @RedLionLad.............

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43055965

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36 minutes ago, SARJ said:

Football hooligans are a funny enigma. 

When I was a teenager I remember idolizing them, thought it was brilliant. The beer, banter, belonging, clothes etc. Got into some trouble on away days and stuff too, notably Cardiff.

Looking back with older eyes, it's quite tragic really and glad I've grown up. 

I still cringe when seeing the 'CYF' (City Frontline Youth) in their matching Stone Island T-Shirts and expensive clothes paid for on Mum's credit card, but I have to remember we were like that once upon a time and it's a phase you learn from and grow out of.

 

Should that not be CFY?

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