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It all kicked off in Bristol (Merged)


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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

There is no comparison to be drawn between pushing yourself to the limits physically and mentally though extreme sport, and getting off on kicking someone’s head in. 

There is. The brain will produce similar hormones due to the stress it is put under. These hormones will be pleasurable.

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Just now, Cowshed said:

There is. The brain will produce similar hormones due to the stress it is put under. These hormones will be pleasurable.

You could make the same case for murdering someone - plenty of people get off on that, doesn’t make it right, nor something that should be romanticised!

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17 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

@jamesbcfc

Different extremes. That is the point. The author does have it spot on. Because the normal reaction to something that is unpleasant is to take flight, avoid it, not wilfully and happily take part. Yes they enjoy it in the manner others enjoy extreme sports that are too stress inducing for the rest of us to envisage ever doing. 

 

I think the real point is that adrenaline rushes can be achieved through a wide variety of things that don't involve being a ****.

 

Part of the appeal of rollercoasters is that they give an adrenaline rush.

When I was younger and could afford it I used to do go-karting, there's one hell of a rush when you're going 40mph and bounce onto 2 wheels because you misjudge a corner and hit a divot on the track badly, or when there are 3 of you abreast wheels no more than 2 inches apart, heading down a straight towards a hairpin.

 

None of these involve beating someone up because they follow a different club.

I never got off a rollercoaster and decided I should punch someone because they like a different one than I do.

 

The fact is football thugs, don't just fight each other. There was a bloke who got put into intensive care a couple of seasons ago who was completely innocent and not a part of "willy wavers r us"

If they did just fight each other then meet up at a pre arranged place, away from everyone else so no one else has to get caught up in it. And preferably far enough away from the football that the rest of us don't continuallly get treated like scum for following the sport.

 

Link about the aforementioned fan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-32219311

Edited by JamesBCFC
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2 minutes ago, Deepdaleismychurch said:

Nothing wrong with two groups of hooligans having a good old scrap.

 

How many people on this thread turning their nose up at the 'violent' aspect of it, tuned in and enjoyed the Anthony Joshua v Klitchko fight? Or just boxing in general. 

Same principle. Human beings trying to inflict damage on the opposition. 

If we're being fair, I think the point a lot of people are making is that scarfers get caught up in it. If it was two big groups of consenting adults, by all means. Think nearly everyone has been involved at some point, to some extent.

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4 minutes ago, Deepdaleismychurch said:

Nothing wrong with two groups of hooligans having a good old scrap.

 

How many people on this thread turning their nose up at the 'violent' aspect of it, tuned in and enjoyed the Anthony Joshua v Klitchko fight? Or just boxing in general. 

Same principle. Human beings trying to inflict damage on the opposition. 

I don't recall anyone who wasn't a part of the fight getting punched by Joshua or Klitchko

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23 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I think the real point is that adrenaline rushes can be achieved through a wide variety of things that don't involve being a ****.

 

Part of the appeal of rollercoasters is that they give an adrenaline rush.

When I was younger and could afford it I used to do go-karting, there's one hell of a rush when you're going 40mph and bounce onto 2 wheels because you misjudge a corner and hit a divot on the track badly, or when there are 3 of you abreast wheels no more than 2 inches apart, heading down a straight towards a hairpin.

 

None of these involve beating someone up because they follow a different club.

I never got off a rollercoaster and decided I should punch someone because they like a different one than I do.

 

The fact is football thugs, don't just fight each other. There was a bloke who got put into intensive care a couple of seasons ago who was completely innocent and not a part of "willy wavers r us"

If they did just fight each other then meet up at a pre arranged place, away from everyone else so no one else has to get caught up in it. And preferably far enough away from the football that the rest of us don't continuallly get treated like scum for following the sport.

When you go karted you would have felt similar sensations to the buzz hooligans refer to. It is the intensity of the activity that produces that pleasure..

The more intense the activity the more intense the feelings can be.  It is the extremity of the activity that produces the surge of excitement - Check the boxers remarks on this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

I don't mean as a part of a firm, but as in football violence in general.

Nearest I have been to 'involved' is seeing a few people starting to kick off after a game last season (Villa home game I think).

 

Largely if you keep your head down you can avoid it- after the 0-0 away draw with Cardiff the first season up I walked to the train station without any fuss and was wearing a City top, everyone else on the platform was Cardiff.

But not everyone is as fortunate and I could hear things starting to kick of maybe 2 roads away as my train arrived, the link I shared earlier was a Watford fan just leaving Molineux getting assaulted by some teenage Wolves thugs.

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4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

When you go karted you would have felt similar sensations to the buzz hooligans refer to. It is the intensity of the activity that produces that pleasure..

The more intense the activity the more intense the feelings can be.  It is the extremity of the activity that produces the surge of excitement - Check the boxers remarks on this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Last time I checked, neither boxing, nor go karting involved people who didn't want to be involved getting left in intensive care.

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I do 'get it' in the respect I played rugby and always in the forward 'pack' which is what we were. We depended on each other at all times in a game where physical confrontation was 'the game'. And regularly we'd be squared up with the opposition pack and fights would occur. Always face to face. Also if one of the girls in the backs got a slap well... so similar to 'our firm' defending our supporters.

what I don't get is the videos of firms meeting. I have no doubt it is not always so and on occasion can get very nasty. The videos always seem to be gobbing off and then a kick is aimed or a punch, or some object, is thrown. Then the instigator runs away, often then stopping a distance away and resumes the gobbing off / taunting. 

I'm mainly at away games and you know which games we will have a presence at. I know several of our lads and they are a generally nice set to chat have a beer with. No problem at all.

i have thought we have an element of younger wannabes who are rather stupid sometimes but rarely seen away from home.

i will have to get the book and read for myself.

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2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Nearest I have been to 'involved' is seeing a few people starting to kick off after a game last season (Villa home game I think).

 

Largely if you keep your head down you can avoid it- after the 0-0 away draw with Cardiff the first season up I walked to the train station without any fuss and was wearing a City top, everyone else on the platform was Cardiff.

But not everyone is as fortunate and I could hear things starting to kick of maybe 2 roads away as my train arrived, the link I shared earlier was a Watford fan just leaving Molineux getting assaulted by some teenage Wolves thugs.

That's where it becomes a really serious problem. And going after a bloke on his own as well, ******* pathetic.

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Just now, JamesBCFC said:

Last time I checked, neither boxing, nor go karting involved people who didn't want to be involved getting left in intensive care.

I did not make  a moral point, merely a similar point to those involved in a violent legal sport in boxing. I cannot truly understand how somebody can get into a ring unless I did it, but they do because they intensely enjoy something the rest of us will never know.

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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

I did not make  a moral point, merely a similar point to those involved in a violent legal sport in boxing. I cannot truly understand how somebody can get into a ring unless I did it, but they do because they intensely enjoy something the rest of us will never know.

So maybe now you can see how boxing and football violence is a false equivalency?

One involves 2 willing participants and has a referee who mediates.

Football violence is a group of neanderthals who don't just stick to the 'willing participants' and make life worse for the football fans who do not wish to be associated with thuggery.

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11 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

That's where it becomes a really serious problem. And going after a bloke on his own as well, ******* pathetic.

Didn’t someone on here have problem with some thug**** trying to hit his son at Reading earlier this year as they made their way across a car park? 

Very naive viewpoint if anyone thinks that only the willing participants get affected by this. 

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9 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Didn’t someone on here have problem with some thug**** trying to hit his son at Reading earlier this year as they made their way across a car park? 

Very naive viewpoint if anyone thinks that only the willing participants get affected by this. 

I think someone had an issue posted on here recently. Fans screaming at his kid in the car or something

 

edit- found it

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/190089-industrial-estate-away-fans/

Edited by JamesBCFC
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Total respect to paul  great book. U don’t like football violence don’t read it !!! I can’t understand people who collect stamps or get a thrill playing scrabble.  I served in the parachute regiment and nothing came close to the buzz of football violence I LOVED IT   if you’ve never felt the adrenaline pump through your body and received the respect that I have then I feel sorry for u as you push The trolley around Sainsbury’s for your overweight ugly wife !! I can’t understand you so don’t try and understand me.   I am adored by my csf brothers    ALL MEN ARE BORN.   FEW TRULY LIVE. CSF FOREVER.  Bobby b 

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13 minutes ago, Guest of west said:

Total respect to paul  great book. U don’t like football violence don’t read it !!! I can’t understand people who collect stamps or get a thrill playing scrabble.  I served in the parachute regiment and nothing came close to the buzz of football violence I LOVED IT   if you’ve never felt the adrenaline pump through your body and received the respect that I have then I feel sorry for u as you push The trolley around Sainsbury’s for your overweight ugly wife !! I can’t understand you so don’t try and understand me.   I am adored by my csf brothers    ALL MEN ARE BORN.   FEW TRULY LIVE. CSF FOREVER.  Bobby b 

Believe me, I've read you post a few times and the highlight sentence seems to really resonate.

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16 minutes ago, Guest of west said:

Total respect to paul  great book. U don’t like football violence don’t read it !!! I can’t understand people who collect stamps or get a thrill playing scrabble.  I served in the parachute regiment and nothing came close to the buzz of football violence I LOVED IT   if you’ve never felt the adrenaline pump through your body and received the respect that I have then I feel sorry for u as you push The trolley around Sainsbury’s for your overweight ugly wife !! I can’t understand you so don’t try and understand me.   I am adored by my csf brothers    ALL MEN ARE BORN.   FEW TRULY LIVE. CSF FOREVER.  Bobby b 

I wouldn’t know where to begin mate. 

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The strange thing about hooligans is they want to be associated with a club that doesn't want to be associated with them.

 

They would probably get more respect from 'their' club for actually supporting the Gas......and not beating them up.

Edited by RedLionLad
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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Football hooliganism can be looked upon as an extreme adrenalin driven sport. The extreme activity leads to the individual being taken mentally and physically to a state where the mind and body will operate in a altogether unique state. The buzz hooligans refer to can only be achieved by being part of that extreme activity and its associated subsequent mental/physical state. This is how the brain works

So its no kop out to state "you won't understand". 

 

It is when I've been in that environment...also when I've done downhill ski Racing, Bobsleigh, Parachute jumps, Boxing, Surfed big waves in Oz and NZ, dived with sharks and whales...I could go on. There are far more ways of getting that adrenalin buzz, with a fear of dying, without wanting to bash someone's head in.

So yes...it is a 'Kop out' to think everyone won't understand, unless they've felt those feeling or been in those situations.

But thanks for the concern...again...

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

It is when I've been in that environment...also when I've done downhill ski Racing, Bobsleigh, Parachute jumps, Boxing, Surfed big waves in Oz and NZ, dived with sharks and whales...I could go on. There are far more ways of getting that adrenalin buzz, with a fear of dying, without wanting to bash someone's head in.

So yes...it is a 'Kop out' to think everyone won't understand, unless they've felt those feeling or been in those situations.

But thanks for the concern...again...

Christ its Superman.

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Just now, Sixtyseconds said:

Christ its Superman.

With a mid life crisis ;-)

It's what you do when your best mate commits suicide on you...you realise life's too short, dying isn't something to be scared of, and a realisation that life should be enjoyed as much as possible. Hence getting out and doing stuff.

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

With a mid life crisis ;-)

It's what you do when your best mate commits suicide on you...you realise life's too short, dying isn't something to be scared of, and a realisation that life should be enjoyed as much as possible. Hence getting out and doing stuff.

That’s terrible. 

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My opinion for what it’s worth. It was a generation. A time in life . People who now try and be a hooligan or act like one. Are deluded. It’s pathetic. But the time of the book rightly or wrongly it happened. I don’t think the author is glorying it . He is telling a story from his era. I’m looking forward to reading the book for xmas . A lot of things happen in history. And people couldn’t make the right changes without books and information like this. And that doesn’t stop with football violence. Everything in history 

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24 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

My opinion for what it’s worth. It was a generation. A time in life . People who now try and be a hooligan or act like one. Are deluded. It’s pathetic. But the time of the book rightly or wrongly it happened. I don’t think the author is glorying it . He is telling a story from his era. I’m looking forward to reading the book for xmas . A lot of things happen in history. And people couldn’t make the right changes without books and information like this. And that doesn’t stop with football violence. Everything in history 

Absolutely, no problem with people telling their stories. It’s the trying to justify it as something that’s still correct and right today that boils my piss. 

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