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It all kicked off in Bristol (Merged)


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I've got conflicting thoughts, which I'll only share because one of them is positive.

The negative one is that I don't get this stuff at all. I've managed to avoid personal involvement in trouble at matches for decades...but having been at Swindon, Reading and indeed Corinthian Casuals I'm not unaware that it existed! I currently like to go and watch the match and maybe chat to opposing fans before and after about how it's played out. As a grey haired man in my mid-50s that's ok these days. I would have liked to have done that 30 years ago. And it was the behaviour of other people of my generation that made that impossible and still means that I'm searched walking into matches...not something that happens to me in any other walk of life. So my view is that football hooliganism impacted on everyone's capacity to enjoy watching football, whether you were involved or not...and I resent that. I certainly don't thank the people involved for fighting battles on my behalf if that's what I'm supposed to do.

But on the other hand I can see that it was a big part of the lives of some people, who are my age or older. And a big part of their youth. And for what it's worth I commend Paul for taking the time and effort to capture that on behalf of others. Writing a book is a brave and bold thing to do. Good luck with it. 

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2 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

If we're being fair, I think the point a lot of people are making is that scarfers get caught up in it. If it was two big groups of consenting adults, by all means. Think nearly everyone has been involved at some point, to some extent.

I’ve never been involved in football violence willingly, because I’m not a c***

I’m sure the vast majority haven’t either.

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11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Absolutely, no problem with people telling their stories. It’s the trying to justify it as something that’s still correct and right today that boils my piss. 

I don’t agree it’s right today. No way . But it’s stories from another generation. I remember my old man telling me . His best mate and best man . Was in the 70,s one of Rovers top boys. Cadbury Heath bloke. When I was a kid growing up watching city in the early 80,s it still happened obviously. But when my old man use to tell me stories of what used to go on I was captivated. Rightly or wrongly it was interesting. I tell my son about sega mega drives. The people from that generation are not justifying it. It was just part off that  era growing up. I personally find it fascinating. Especially how wanna be hooligans act today 

 

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1 hour ago, Guest of west said:

Total respect to paul  great book. U don’t like football violence don’t read it !!! I can’t understand people who collect stamps or get a thrill playing scrabble.  I served in the parachute regiment and nothing came close to the buzz of football violence I LOVED IT   if you’ve never felt the adrenaline pump through your body and received the respect that I have then I feel sorry for u as you push The trolley around Sainsbury’s for your overweight ugly wife !! I can’t understand you so don’t try and understand me.   I am adored by my csf brothers    ALL MEN ARE BORN.   FEW TRULY LIVE. CSF FOREVER.  Bobby b 

You’re adored by people no one else gives a shit about? Fair play mate.

”recieved respect” Jesus wept :facepalm:

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43 minutes ago, spudski said:

It is when I've been in that environment...also when I've done downhill ski Racing, Bobsleigh, Parachute jumps, Boxing, Surfed big waves in Oz and NZ, dived with sharks and whales...I could go on. There are far more ways of getting that adrenalin buzz, with a fear of dying, without wanting to bash someone's head in.

So yes...it is a 'Kop out' to think everyone won't understand, unless they've felt those feeling or been in those situations.

But thanks for the concern...again...

You are welcome.

Here you are reinforcing my post. You have pursued excitement via extreme sports. Hooligans do similar via violence. I find it telling that the CSF contained numerous people who had lives in the Armed Services, they chose to get their kicks, to seek their buzz from hooliganism.

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Read the book in two days.

The Punch Bowl incident brought back memories. You had to be around in the 80’s to understand the hatred that existed at the time.  

Adrenalin also has a lot to do with the reasons why FV occurred. Powerful buzz!

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6 hours ago, phantom said:

Disagree with you @spudski reading the above I would say that you haven't been part of it, reading the two sentances above clearly contradict that theory.   I would say I have been protected by these people, as one example, every time we used to go to Cardiff the home "fans" have looked for City fans on leaving the ground, we'd have taken a kicking if it wasn't for these people stepping up to them 

You only needed “protecting” because the likes of the people protecting you exist in the first place :blink: you think those same “protectors” have never gone after any innocent ”scarfers” in their time?

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2 hours ago, Guest of west said:

Total respect to paul  great book. U don’t like football violence don’t read it !!! I can’t understand people who collect stamps or get a thrill playing scrabble.  I served in the parachute regiment and nothing came close to the buzz of football violence I LOVED IT   if you’ve never felt the adrenaline pump through your body and received the respect that I have then I feel sorry for u as you push The trolley around Sainsbury’s for your overweight ugly wife !! I can’t understand you so don’t try and understand me.   I am adored by my csf brothers    ALL MEN ARE BORN.   FEW TRULY LIVE. CSF FOREVER.  Bobby b 

Same Bobby B that was knocking Cardiff lads out for fun back in 2000, pretty sure that night was the same night that featured on the soul crew documentary, what a funny night that was :laugh:.

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3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

You only needed “protecting” because the likes of the people protecting you exist in the first place :blink: you think those same “protectors” have never gone after any innocent ”scarfers” in their time?

We aren't Cardiff FFS, I don't know anyone whod have gone after innocent scarfers, I don't think you are getting this.

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5 hours ago, Lewisdabaron said:

@Paul Lumber I'm about half way through the book, a great read so far, thanks for sharing your memories. 

I am interested as to how many copies have been sold so far? Are you able to disclose?

thanks. 

Still waiting for mine from amazon - several weeks now but it has been despatched - apparently:yawn:

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Don’t see what the fuss is about, if you are of a certain age i’m Sure you will recognise most of what is said in the book, being at a football match in the 70’s & 80’s was certainly an experience which made me fall in love with my club, some of the things that were happening were quite unbelievable and if i’m Honest I am glad those days are now behind us but we can’t erase what happened and personally I think some of the stories are worth telling and there are plenty who are happy to be reminded, if you are not interested don’t read it.

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I was there through thick and thin from the late 60s. 

Saw loads of trouble over the years, although I am very reliably informed showed up to late for a nasty one at Dulwich/Corinthian Casuals. 

Context is those times had social issues and struggles and football became a de facto battle ground. Rioting on the streets in London, Bristol, Liverpool Manchester and Birmingham was common. 

This was coupled with A religious war in Northern Ireland and bombing across the country. If you were anywhere near some of that horse shit you were bound to push back somewhere. 

Since the middle class take over of football the movement of working class jobs abroad and 911 which finally classified Irish Nationalists as terrorists in the USA where the funding came from times have changed. 

If you are out there fighting today you do it because you like it, but usually prearranged.

If a few blokes want to meet up for a ruck more power to them as long as the rest of us don’t get dragged in. 

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I appreciate it appears totally illogical to some, but I do 'get' it. 

Played many sports, and have many non-sporting interests - including a 1400cc superbike - but following City in the 70/80's was something else. While, personally, I didn't need to thump a person - or horse - to get my adrenaline rush I could see why, for some, that could take it to another level. 

It appeals to basic tribal instinct. Bravado. It's about pride, bonding and association. You can argue - correctly - that it's totally misplaced 'loyalty' but all part of life's rich tapestry for me. Trouble wasn't that random and had 'rules', so for those who didn't want to be involved, they were either pretty unlucky or stupid. 

I''m probably of a similar age to Paul and, no doubt, have many shared experiences so look forward to Santa delivering my copy.

Think football has now moved on.  AG has become a sanitised offer. It's more like attending a theatre than a football ground. As I've aged, the current  'offer' is a better 'fit' with my needs but, hey, I do miss the old edgy atmosphere.

Not trying to justify it, just an attempt to explain it. 

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Imagine a president or prime minister of a country. That gets into a needless war . Vietnam or Iraq . Or numerous wars . And thousands upon thousands of people get killed. Fighting in anyway shape or form is mans history. Some men like to fight. From politicians to football hooligans . Luckily football hooligans seem to be dying of. As for politicians going to war . Not enough cctv yet 

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27 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You are welcome.

Here you are reinforcing my post. You have pursued excitement via extreme sports. Hooligans do similar via violence. I find it telling that the CSF contained numerous people who had lives in the Armed Services, they chose to get their kicks, to seek their buzz from hooliganism.

I totally understand why 'Hooligans' are what they are. The violence is just an end product to what they get from being in the 'Tribe'.

However...it's totally misguided imo, and all that energy and feeling of being wanted and part of something, could be focussed elsewhere worthwhile, to both themselves and society as a whole.

Joining a boxing Club for example, and give something back into your own community etc.

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2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Of course I’m not “getting it”, I don’t have the same Neanderthal mindset. I’m a grown up.

Well why not stop chucking insults around if you're a grown up?

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3 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

If we're being fair, I think the point a lot of people are making is that scarfers get caught up in it. If it was two big groups of consenting adults, by all means. Think nearly everyone has been involved at some point, to some extent.

The same scarfers who spend 90 minutes chanting “fight fight wherever you may be”!!:whistle:

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8 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Then you’ve never been caught up in something you really had no intention of being in, or seen someone you know get seriously hurt by one of these idiots.

 

I certainly have seen it and as I’ve stated, i’m Glad that those days are behind us

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9 minutes ago, harrys said:

I really don’t understand your angst

Our angst comes from being embarrassed by hooligans claiming to represent and defend our football club. There is a lot of romanticising of violence in this thread. I’d prefer to see people owning up to being embarrassed  by what they got up to when they were naive teenagers. I’m sure there is excitement in roaming round in a group but I can’t understand any pleasure in really hurting someone.

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50 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

You’re adored by people no one else gives a shit about? Fair play mate.

”recieved respect” Jesus wept :facepalm:

Attack the post content as you deem fit but spelling mistakes; really?

Oh no - you made a common grammar mistake so my point of view must be correct. Jesus wept !!

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10 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Our angst comes from being embarrassed by hooligans claiming to represent and defend our football club. There is a lot of romanticising of violence in this thread. I’d prefer to see people owning up to being embarrassed  by what they got up to when they were naive teenagers. I’m sure there is excitement in roaming round in a group but I can’t understand any pleasure in really hurting someone.

We are talking about things that happened in the main over 20 years ago and it happened at every ground in the Country, it’s not about romanticising it’s about telling a story of what it was like watching football in the 80’s & 90’s and again just just for the record I’m glad those days are behind us

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19 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Our angst comes from being embarrassed by hooligans claiming to represent and defend our football club. There is a lot of romanticising of violence in this thread. I’d prefer to see people owning up to being embarrassed  by what they got up to when they were naive teenagers. I’m sure there is excitement in roaming round in a group but I can’t understand any pleasure in really hurting someone.

Naive teenagers were normally the advanced party 

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It's fascinating to see the anti-CSF vitriol on here from some posters.

 

I just find it ironic, that despite knowing exactly who these guys are, where they stand/sit and certainly where they drink, not one of the posters getting so irate about their activities have gone over and expressed their feelings about their activities to their faces.

If Scotty can find PL then I'm sure the angry otib anti-CSF brigade can find him as well.

 

I'd imagine a fair few of those mentioned in the book will be around at the next couple of home games, so I'm sure they would be more than happy to have a chat with you before the game. And I mean a chat, not a 'car park' chat.

 

It's that simple.

If you want to read the book - read it.

If you hate the CSF and all they stand for, go and tell them why.  Nobody will lay a finger on you, I guarantee that.

And don't read the book.

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4 minutes ago, SX227 said:

It's fascinating to see the anti-CSF vitriol on here from some posters.

 

I just find it ironic, that despite knowing exactly who these guys are, where they stand/sit and certainly where they drink, not one of the posters getting so irate about their activities have gone over and expressed their feelings about their activities to their faces.

If Scotty can find PL then I'm sure the angry otib anti-CSF brigade can find him as well.

 

I'd imagine a fair few of those mentioned in the book will be around at the next couple of home games, so I'm sure they would be more than happy to have a chat with you before the game. And I mean a chat, not a 'car park' chat.

 

It's that simple.

If you want to read the book - read it.

If you hate the CSF and all they stand for, go and tell them why.  Nobody will lay a finger on you, I guarantee that.

And don't read the book.

And so say REDOXO!!!!

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1 hour ago, Leveller said:

Our angst comes from being embarrassed by hooligans claiming to represent and defend our football club. There is a lot of romanticising of violence in this thread. I’d prefer to see people owning up to being embarrassed  by what they got up to when they were naive teenagers. I’m sure there is excitement in roaming round in a group but I can’t understand any pleasure in really hurting someone.

That pretty much sums up my position.

Two examples, both against Swindon as a teenager in the mid-1970s.

  1. Mid-morning train to Swindon, walking in the general direction of the County Ground when, for some reason, dozens of fans, me tagging along, decided to rampage through Marks and Spencers. Why? For the 'buzz', I suppose. Nobody was assaulted, although mannequins were pulled over, clothes strewn on the floor and, in general, just mindless hooliganism. Sure it was exciting at the time, but crass stupidity with the benefit of hindsight.
  2. Home game against Swindon, lovely sunny Saturday afternoon and enjoying an illicit pint outside The Rising Sun when two young men in their mid-20s walking through Greville Smyth Park and wearing red and white scarves shout out Swindon. Now, even from some yards away, it was plainly evident that these two men were simply naive, almost hippy types and most certainly not looking for violence or confrontation of any kind. Nevertheless, dozens of City's finest left their drinks, rushed through the park and really kicked the shit of these two unfortunate young men. I was truly horrified and recall to this day their beaten faces - I seem to recall from newspaper reports at the time that one suffered a broken jaw, the other a broken nose, and Why? Two innocent men suffered life-changing injuries for supporting the wrong team.      
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26 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

That pretty much sums up my position.

Two examples, both against Swindon as a teenager in the mid-1970s.

  1. Mid-morning train to Swindon, walking in the general direction of the County Ground when, for some reason, dozens of fans, me tagging along, decided to rampage through Marks and Spencers. Why? For the 'buzz', I suppose. Nobody was assaulted, although mannequins were pulled over, clothes strewn on the floor and, in general, just mindless hooliganism. Sure it was exciting at the time, but crass stupidity with the benefit of hindsight.
  2. Home game against Swindon, lovely sunny Saturday afternoon and enjoying an illicit pint outside The Rising Sun when two young men in their mid-20s walking through Greville Smyth Park and wearing red and white scarves shout out Swindon. Now, even from some yards away, it was plainly evident that these two men were simply naive, almost hippy types and most certainly not looking for violence or confrontation of any kind. Nevertheless, dozens of City's finest left their drinks, rushed through the park and really kicked the shit of these two unfortunate young men. I was truly horrified and recall to this day their beaten faces - I seem to recall from newspaper reports at the time that one suffered a broken jaw, the other a broken nose, and Why? Two innocent men suffered life-changing injuries for supporting the wrong team.      

They were only protecting you! How very dare you. 

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