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CyderInACan

It all kicked off in Bristol (Merged)

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7 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

For all you knockers and people who are just plain ignorant.

The CSF is not just a hooligan group, it's a very loosely knit family, with a few father figures, like me in our 40's and a LOT of people that can be highly organised and bloody caring.

Illl give you an example, a very good friend of mine was arrested in France Euro 16, needless to say as many others were, defending himself against Marsailles firm & the Russians. I'm not saying anything about the incident or anything else, BUT a four figure sum has been raised for him, to which he was genuinely moved. 

So crack on with your snide comments, your skintight City shirt with witty nickname on, we are all supporters AFTERALL, But CSF 1984 is a FAMILY and we look after our own, including any innocents that get caught up away from home because they may meet a bunch of cowards that just don't the rules, trust me I've seen it.

Love to all that donated.

RIP DIVY.

I grew up on the terraces in the 70's and 80's and loved every minute of it, it will be interesting to see if there is as much "fiction" in this book as most other books of the same ilk, not sure that i would compare the CSF with that other hard-core firm at the time, the I.R.A. !!!!

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2 hours ago, Loon plage said:

So you are comparing CSF with terrorist groups now ? what a belter.

People have every right to detest football hooligans and I accept that they were a negative force in the 70's and 90's but please have a look at your perspectives.......

Do you really think he was comparing the two or was he merely pointing out just how ridiculous your post was?

You ruin many people's enjoyment of football for your own selfish purposes, you embarrass us all with your pathetic posturing, you drag the name of the club you claim to support through the mud, but that's all ok because you care about each other and 'look after your own'?

Also, what exactly is ignorant about condemning violence?

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I'll be getting a copy, no doubt about that

I've read all the Brimson books, and I can completely understand why people don't want to read them. I'm sure there is a degree of poetic licence used, if people were as pissed, smacked up, coked up as they say they were then surely certain parts are open to interpretation. If you don't want to read it, don't bother, but it's part of football's history. Thankfully we don't see it on the same scale today, yet most of us moan about how watching a game of football has become sterile. Groups of lads like the CSF contributed to the atmosphere, and I thank them for it

It's been mentioned on here a few times about the games with the best atmosphere - Charlton at home FA Cup 5th round, the year we had beaten Liverpool. Rumours of Chelsea / Millwall / West Ham fans had travelled with the, rather large, Charlton following. It was just an angry place to be, from memory it was a pretty dank day, the game was end to end (?), plenty of tackles flying in, it felt like it could explode any minute. It was brilliant. I don't remember anything happening in the ground, but I'm sure plenty happened in and around the stadium for those who wanted it

All that being said, now I take my daughters along I'm quite happy with sterile, but as a young 'un I loved it

 

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On 22/08/2016 at 23:50, AzerbaijanApeman said:

Many moons ago I had a fascination with these "hooligan diairies", as embarrassed as I am to admit it now - read a slew of 'em, including the ones penned by those ludicrous Brimson brothers, the Soul Crew one, a Sheffield Utd one, Man Utd tales of the 70s and some others - I even saw a Rovers one at a bookshop once (Rovers have a hooligan element - surely not!!)

They all have several things in common:-

1. They "big up" the firm being written about, pay lip service to respecting other notorious firms (Millwall, West Ham, Brum, Cardiff I recall had a huge hooligan crush on Plymouth for some reason) and denigrate their rivals' mobs.

2. They contain uncorroborated tales of fighting that are unsurprisingly completely disputed by rival mobs (It was just me and  Mental Millicent - two Darlo against 50,000 Zulus, and we legged 'em)

3. They are written by semi-literate halfwits who fancy themselves as the Moss Side Shakespeare

4. The authors have a perverse belief that football hooliganism is all just a bit of a laugh, there's a code of a honour among these thugs, nobody really ever gets hurt - or if they do it's because of extenuating circumstances (someone brought a gun to a knife fight, or rather a Stanley to a fist fight; organisational incompetence by the authorities,over-zealous policing) and not due to the actions of the morons themselves, they are better people than "scarfers" and they have more in common with fellow knuckle-scrapers from their most detested rivals than they do with "scarfers" who support their own team

5. They consider all "Old bill" to be the lowest form of life possible and "fair game".

Absolute bog roll, every single one.

There was a book that I quite enjoyed, but it wasn't really about hooliganism - more the fashion and music that underpinned supporter culture. That was a fairly enjoyable read but I forget what it's called.

 

So us semi-literate halfwits write em and you wannabe hooligans get off on them.

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17 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Do you really think he was comparing the two or was he merely pointing out just how ridiculous your post was?

You ruin many people's enjoyment of football for your own selfish purposes, you embarrass us all with your pathetic posturing, you drag the name of the club you claim to support through the mud, but that's all ok because you care about each other and 'look after your own'?

So does the person who sits and moans behind me every game for the past few years, but that would be an extreme comparison too !

I honestly don't know why you keep repeating the same lines on every thread to do with this, no offence but it has got very tiresome

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Just now, phantom said:

So does the person who sits and moans behind me every game for the past few years, but that would be an extreme comparison too !

I honestly don't know why you keep repeating the same lines on every thread to do with this, no offence but it has got very tiresome

I am doing it a lot less now because I know it annoys people, but it just really bugs me when people come on here glamourising and legitimising violence and nobody says a thing! I'll go back to being quiet now.

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2 minutes ago, phantom said:

So does the person who sits and moans behind me every game for the past few years, but that would be an extreme comparison too !

I honestly don't know why you keep repeating the same lines on every thread to do with this, no offence but it has got very tiresome

Noun

virtue signalling ‎(uncountable)

  1. The practice of expressing a particular opinion in an attempt to make oneself look virtuous.
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1 minute ago, spudski said:

It's all very 'romantic' until you look into the eyes of a wife and child of someone who has been killed by hooligans. Just over a game of football...

Oh come on spudski.  How many people have been killed in the UK by football hooliganism?  (as distinct from crowd crushes)

In contrast how many have been killed by the glamour of driving a fast car or by people reckoning themselves to be a hard man after a few bevvies on a Friday night?

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38 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Do you really think he was comparing the two or was he merely pointing out just how ridiculous your post was?

You ruin many people's enjoyment of football for your own selfish purposes, you embarrass us all with your pathetic posturing, you drag the name of the club you claim to support through the mud, but that's all ok because you care about each other and 'look after your own'?

Also, what exactly is ignorant about condemning violence?

What post are you referring to you ******* idiot. If you want to get a hard on hiding behind a keyboard please recheck this thread ad take it up with Yorkshire Section not me.

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In reply to Eddie Hitler...Yes...I put those people in the same category of '********' and 'knuckle draggers' too...

I have a friend who is still actively involved in the 'Hooligan' scene in Slovakia. Was a former 'lad' for West Ham.

We get on about everything...apart from his views, and participation, in beating the living shit out of someone because of following a football team.

From my experience...the majority of 'hooligans' I've met...mainly Cardiff, West Ham and Lazio, a few City, have got social and mental health problems, and self loathing. They have to feel part of something and of some worth...because in reality, in the real world, they are generally a 'nobody'.

What I don't understand, is why be a hooligan thinks it's a good thing....when the Club, players, and majority of fans, hate you... and wouldn't piss on you, if you were on fire?

Hooligans will all stand together and say...'you don't understand'...and the majority of people don't, because we don't think like them...in the same way, as the majority of people don't drive like a maniac or fight after a few drinks.

It pisses me off, that this thread is even allowed to be on this forum...it's not about football...it's everything football is trying to get rid of and disassociate itself from. I'm sure Mrs Lansdown, when reading this forum, is proud to know it's still alive and healthy and being 'understood'.

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10 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

What post are you referring to you ******* idiot. If you want to get a hard on hiding behind a keyboard please recheck this thread ad take it up with Yorkshire Section not me.

Apologies, it was indeed Yorkshire Section's post I was referring to, though I started by referencing your claim that JM91 was comparing CSF to a terrorist organisation which he was not.

You have also directly insulted posters in your last two posts, calling JM91 a belter and me a ******* idiot. Did you miss the part about attack the post not the poster?

I'm also not hiding behind anything. My picture is clearly here for all to see, and if you need any more PM and I'll let you have my ST location.

Edited by richwwtk

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@spudski I can't really disagree with much of that but this thread and the book are talking about things that happened thirty or more years ago.

If it was cheerleading for current hooliganism then I presume that the mods would remove the thread for the reasons that you note.

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@Eddie HitlerI understand...but the vast majority of these books, are written as a 'Fond memory' and almost glamourize hooliganism, not condone it.

Some posts on hooliganism on here, often reflect that attitude too.

They often portray it in a way, that makes some people are attracted to it...hence, the films and books still being published.

The less spoken about it the better imo...others will disagree.

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7 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Apologies, it was indeed Yorkshire Section's post I was referring to, though I started by referencing your claim that JM91 was comparing CSF to a terrorist organisation which he was not.

You have also directly insulted posters in your last two posts, calling JM91 a belter and me a ******* idiot. Did you miss the part about attack the post not the poster?

I'm also not hiding behind anything. My picture is clearly here for all to see, and if you need any more PM and I'll let you have my ST location.

 What use is your ST location ? You surely aren't looking for a confrontation are you ?

Let it rest. You made a fool of yourself by pitching into someone who said that hooligans were a negative force in the 70s and 80s but that the poster needed to review perspectives after clearly comparing the alleged "family" approach of the CSF (does it really exist now anyway) with terrorist groups or did I imagine him saying " You could probably say much the same about ISIS, Al-Qaeda, the IRA etc." in response to the tale about fundraising .

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21 minutes ago, spudski said:

It pisses me off, that this thread is even allowed to be on this forum...it's not about football...it's everything football is trying to get rid of and disassociate itself from. I'm sure Mrs Lansdown, when reading this forum, is proud to know it's still alive and healthy and being 'understood'.

I agree with you actually.This has little relevance to Bristol City today particularly as there isn't any real active hooliganism on an organised level "on behalf of" BCFC anyway. I have posted on this thread as I know the author but maybe it should be closed..dunno one for the mods.

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4 hours ago, JM91 said:

You could probably say much the same about ISIS, Al-Qaeda, the IRA etc.

 

Its good to see that your moronic comparisons are just as evident on the football forum as the politics section.  Jesus wept. :facepalm:

 

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32 minutes ago, spudski said:

It pisses me off, that this thread is even allowed to be on this forum...it's not about football...it's everything football is trying to get rid of and disassociate itself from. I'm sure Mrs Lansdown, when reading this forum, is proud to know it's still alive and healthy and being 'understood'.

There's far worse, on more topical subjects, on the non football forum. Like it or not the CSF is part of the history of this club

Some of the knuckle dragging, far right shit on other parts of the forum makes this look very tame

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

So does the person who sits and moans behind me every game for the past few years, but that would be an extreme comparison too !

I honestly don't know why you keep repeating the same lines on every thread to do with this, no offence but it has got very tiresome

This could make a great book series. Imagine firms up and down the country recounting their best moans.

'So there we were, four nil up away from home and it wasn't even half time, yet melancholy Mike was on one. The crowd started to scatter despite the fact we were close to getting a fifth as Mike took the first bite of his pie.

Those 'in the know' knew what was coming, they'd got food for kick off, but for the rest of us this was something else. Yes. His pie was COLD. And boy, did he let us know about it. Not only did his tepid meat based treat fail to amuse him, but he managed to spoil the day for everyone else as well'.

Melancholy Mike. Top Boy. Top Pain in the ass.

(Extract taken from 'we even moan when we're winning').

Edited by Bristol Rob
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@Woodsy I don't think you'll ever see the Club refer or acknowledge the CSF as part of it's history fella.

We may know it exists...like all other idiotic ideas in the world...some are best left to rot.

Tame talking about it indeed...like I said before...it's not until you've seen the negative effect it's had on some people lives up close and personal for real, that it makes you take stock.

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Spudski everybody wants to be part of something, or more or less everybody. That goes from childhood to adulthood. As fans you are part of something. As kids in your football team you are part of little gang wanting to beat the opposition. And as adults we are often still looking for something - This forum has it’s own gangs and cliques!

Some of the CSF went on to become successful businessmen. Numerous members were servicemen, one later worked in security including personal protection in Iraq. They are somebodies. Divvy? Nobody? Regarded quite widely with affection.

It could be a articulate social study of a long lasting cultural phenomenon explaining in elegant prose the looks and lifestyle, I doubt it. It is a cultural phenomenon that is now virtually gone, however it was part of the social history of Bristol City FC. I will probably thumb through the book if I see it then place it back on the shelf quite quickly.

Edited by Cowshed
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17 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Woodsy I don't think you'll ever see the Club refer or acknowledge the CSF as part of it's history fella.

We may know it exists...like all other idiotic ideas in the world...some are best left to rot.

Tame talking about it indeed...like I said before...it's not until you've seen the negative effect it's had on some people lives up close and personal for real, that it makes you take stock.

I don't expect the club to acknowledge their existence, but it's there

I've not been affected, I've not joined in - I just liked the edgier atmospheres back in the day

As I said though, now I take my girls I'm happy having it a little more sterile

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@Cowshed I agree with your post...and I know people who have become 'businessman' and the like, after and during their involvement in hooliganism. They still had 'problems' though...and were still a 'nobody' in the eyes of people that know them, regardless of their 'success'...as they couldn't be taken seriously and were frowned upon.

There have been books written about the culture and social aspects and psychology of such practices, and backs up pretty much everything I've said.

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8 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Cowshed I agree with your post...and I know people who have become 'businessman' and the like, after and during their involvement in hooliganism. They still had 'problems' though...and were still a 'nobody' in the eyes of people that know them, regardless of their 'success'...as they couldn't be taken seriously and were frowned upon.

There have been books written about the culture and social aspects and psychology of such practices, and backs up pretty much everything I've said.

Hmm.. I think you are generalising way too much there Spudski as business circles are usually somewhat different to those inhabited by "lads" so I think most business contacts would be totally unaware of the past history of a client or supplier/consultant whatever unless that person chose to reveal it. You are certainly correct though that some "top lads" are or were nothing outside of those circles just like the hard lad in the 3rd year at school was overtaken by the time many of the acolytes or victims left school.

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49 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

 What use is your ST location ? You surely aren't looking for a confrontation are you ?

 

Never looking for a confrontation, just doing my best to counter the 'hiding behind a keyboard' accusation.

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@Loon plage purely from my own experience fella...I can't comment on others, as it's purely my own.

From an outsider watching it from afar...I'd agree many seem to come from many different circles. More working class dare I say.

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The CSF is part of our history like it or not, personally I'm glad it's way behind us and my kids don't have to put up with some of the frightening things I encountered at places like Millwall, Middlesbrough, Wolverhampton etc, believe me, a bond was formed with many City fans through this hooligan element and what's more many non violent city fans were thankful of their presence at some away games, let the old 'uns get on with their reminiscing

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Can the sequel be The DEL ('Dolman Early Leavers') please? Love to know what they get up to. Massive firm.

I can see the first - and last - chapter as the author dashed from his typewriter to the postbox to ensure he didn't miss the last post.... 'Bert didn't flinch as a red shirt vollied the back of the net to put City 1-0 up in the 61st minute of the European Cup semi-final. No, he had his mind on other matters. Jack, in Row 15, had bundled his programme into his raincoat and looked to be making his move. Desperate to get to the bus stop first, grabbing his stick Bert charged the gangway. Oblivious to trampling on small children and loss of his dentures, he knew he had only seconds to make it. He was in the zone, nothing could................

Edited by Moor2Sea

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33 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Loon plage purely from my own experience fella...I can't comment on others, as it's purely my own.

From an outsider watching it from afar...I'd agree many seem to come from many different circles. More working class dare I say.

I think that those who might be identified nowadays as "lads" by outsiders are still primarily from what was/still is working class although I think for many of those so called casuals its more of a fashion and posing thing rather than real intent to do harm to the opposition as the ramifications of a public order related conviction at a football match is very serious now and disproportionately severe when compared to other environments.

There are of course a lot more things for a young man to do on a Saturday afternoon than 30-40 years ago and dare I say more money around which is why eastern europe now has the problem rather than the UK .

I certainly know a lot of men in their 40's to 60's who were definitely major players when it was a dangerous game to play who are highly successful and engage with people who rarely have any interest in football matters past or present and therefore either dont know about backgrounds or simply dont care - accepting that is not across the board of the so called CSF "membership".

Anyway whether or not the spelling is crap I happen to like the author and will read the book. Perhaps this thread might be better placed in another subforum as it seems to polarise the membership a bit !

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For me my first away game was as a young lad being taken to Swindon and standing in the enclosure with my mate and his dad, City had taken the Town End and loads of Swindon with the help of a load of Millwall fans were running up and down the enclosure trying to re-capture the Town End, around about the same time we played Cardiff at home in a night game and there were 137 arrests, at the time the most ever at a football match. What I'm getting at is that football violence was the norm in those days and many football fans of my generation knew nothing different and were practically born into it,  as I've already stated I'm well and truly glad those days are well behind us and long may that continue.

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A genuinely interesting thread. Not sure why it's still in the Football Chat bit of the Forum...but if it wasn't I'd not have come across it. Interesting because it raises some important issues about the changing nature of support for football clubs in the past 40 years or so and gets to the heart of some of the comment on football becoming "sterile" or the atmosphere being like a library...or why it's important, or irrelevant, to have Section 82, or a link with Willem II. 

I watched City home and away all bar one season from 79-80 to the present. I've been an exile almost all of that time, and hard though some may find it to believe this until very recently I'd never heard of the CSF. I don't believe I've ever met anyone associated with it. I've never had any real difficulty avoiding trouble, and since the days of Swindon and Reading in the Cooper era I've rarely seen any. 

So I guess my observation is that much of this thread represents a reality which is very specific to one group of people. I can fully understand why, looking back, they'd grow nostalgic...if only for their youth and vigour.

On the other hand football hooliganism blighted my experience of following City for years...and to an extent still does. Personally I love modern football. I love being able to sit at the Gate in comfort and enjoy the match, without any of the distractions of the menace of violence in the background. But when I travel away it's rarely like that. I struggle to think of any other situation in which a grey haired, respectably dressed middle aged man like me is body searched on a fortnightly basis and treated as a potential criminal. And it's for that reason that the riotous behaviour of the some supporters, however exciting it was for them, and however long ago, isn't necessarily viewed with nostalgia by others.

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11 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I watched City home and away all bar one season from 79-80 to the present. I've been an exile almost all of that time, and hard though some may find it to believe this until very recently I'd never heard of the CSF.

On the other hand football hooliganism blighted my experience of following City for years...

Those two sentences I find amazing

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A great thread. Interesting to hear the stories of battles with other teams and their element. I've heard of the CSF and knew it was about trains and travel. 

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3 minutes ago, shelts said:

A great thread. Interesting to hear the stories of battles with other teams and their element. I've heard of the CSF and knew it was about trains and travel. 

Like Michael Portillo's programmes you mean?

p01pqqm9.jpg

Maybe I will buy the book then.

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1 minute ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

I find it amazing that you have been around so many city games over such a long period of time where "football hooliganism blighted my experience of following City for years" but never made a connection between them?

ah, understood.

I'd literally never heard of the CSF...until I joined this forum I was completely unaware that City had a "firm" with a name. Of course I've seen City fans verbally having a go at other fans, but rarely, if ever, actually fighting. It's (almost) always been possible to avoid trouble. But I confess that I go to matches with boringly respectable people (apologies to those who know me for that characterisation!), who are all interested in the football, not the opposition supporters, and travel independently.

The blighting of my experience - and that of everyone else regardless of their behaviour - was through the hostility towards football fans and the often OTT policing, which was a reaction to hooliganism. And that hostility endures. I can't think of any other leisure activity that I follow where I have to be careful where I eat or drink before the event, or any other aspect of my life where I would, at times, be treated with contempt by policemen.

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6 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Redexile...just for you fella...recently against Newcastle...

 

Thanks Spudski. All I can say is that it passes me by...at the time I was doubtless chatting with my sons about the match whilst queueing for the bus back to the Park & Ride! Not part of my experience of following City at all.

 

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4 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Thanks Spudski. All I can say is that it passes me by...at the time I was doubtless chatting with my sons about the match whilst queueing for the bus back to the Park & Ride! Not part of my experience of following City at all.

 

I think generally (unfortunately not always) those who don't want to find trouble manage to get by without having to see it.

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@Redexile Unfortunately I've witnessed similar in recent match's whilst walking back towards the Spanish bar after games. Has seemed a lot more prevalent in recent fixtures. Sometimes you realise the Gene Pool should finish just there ;-)

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There will always be chaps getting kicks from things you will never know.

I want know how many brass tacks it took to pay Bristol City FC to advertise around the ground a company called the City Sandwich Firm.

And an advert in the programme "We will fill you in"...

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Redexile Unfortunately I've witnessed similar in recent match's whilst walking back towards the Spanish bar after games. Has seemed a lot more prevalent in recent fixtures. 

That's a shame tbh. I guess my only motive for posting in this thread was to suggest to the younger members of the Forum that running with hooligan firms was far from a universal experience back in the day...and that it was perfectly possible to be a loyal City fan and have nothing to do with them...indeed be unaware of their existence.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Redexile Unfortunately I've witnessed similar in recent match's whilst walking back towards the Spanish bar after games. Has seemed a lot more prevalent in recent fixtures. Sometimes you realise the Gene Pool should finish just there ;-)

What you might not be aware of @Spudski but something that is becoming more prevalent are groups of away fans who come to Bristol spend the early part getting fuelled up on the waterfront etc then come south when the game has started with no intention of going to the match. Apart from the usual suspects like Millwall the first I was aware of this was a so called Rotherham "firm" 3 seasons back who avoided their opposite numbers until 3pm then tried to storm both the Spanish bar and BS3 and gave lone fans a squeeze in the Tobacco Factory. Villa was the latest example who were run off after trying the BS3. Now whatever you think about people who get nicked in the vicinity of football matches if you are simply in a pub on saturday afternoon watching Sky Sports and your pub is steamed by people from say Birmingham you may wish to defend yourself whatever your view on football related violence may be. Some pubs have doorstaff who are very capable but others will not.My point is this - if I know that this is happening what is the motivation of the Police to allow it to happen? Violence in Stadia is practically unheard of because of CCTV and people who will turn other people in.The number of officers for low risk games like Fulham last season for example is disproportionate and I can only think that the reason they are in the ground doing nothing rather than being outside the ground doing something is that BCFC presumably pays for them inside the ground?

In essence some people labelled as knuckle dragging neanderthals on here are "lads" who want to fight some are "lads" who like to pose and some are people going about their business who find themselves under attack by groups of people from out of town in groups too large to have gone under the radar.

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I'm totally aware of it fella...and understand your points made.

No harm in defending yourself...I find it's just easier to avoid such places. I prefer to be an individual...not run with the pack. I've got sympathy for anyone who finds themselves confronted by such idiots if they have no intention of confrontation.

Those 'posing' and posturing, wearing Stone Island, like it's some naff uniform...giving it 'large' and talking like some inbred west country version of Danny Dyer whilst walking like they've shit their pants ala Liam Gallagher ...hurling abuse etc...they can all go and jump under a bus for all I care. Football imo can do without them.

I just laugh at them...all a bit sad when you think about it logically.

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10 hours ago, Collis1 said:

Its good to see that your moronic comparisons are just as evident on the football forum as the politics section.  Jesus wept. :facepalm:

 

Wasn't a comparison, merely an analogy to point out that the idea of "camaraderie" doesn't make an organisation inherently good.  Not that I'd expect a feeble mind like yours to comprehend that.

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