BTRFTG Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, kevthered said: so it's then up to them to prove who was driving. No it isn't. The registered owner is wholly responsible for offences of this sort. They don't have to disclose who was in possession of the vehicle at the time but they'll still be the party liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 If they got the Reg wrong how are they going to obtain your details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthered Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 8 hours ago, BTRFTG said: No it isn't. The registered owner is wholly responsible for offences of this sort. They don't have to disclose who was in possession of the vehicle at the time but they'll still be the party liable. No its not....Not if its a private company...If is a Police or council then yes it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 9 hours ago, BTRFTG said: No it isn't. The registered owner is wholly responsible for offences of this sort. They don't have to disclose who was in possession of the vehicle at the time but they'll still be the party liable. POFA 2012 Schedule 4 is what they need to adhere to and it states they have to prove who was driving. IF these things go to court, then it can go down to the balance of probability, but you can easily sway this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, kevthered said: No its not....Not if its a private company...If is a Police or council then yes it is As you like. For completeness and for those following this thread the only exception relates to leased or hire vehicles, but if you are the hirer or lessor you'll note from your agreement you've accepted liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 36 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: POFA 2012 Schedule 4 is what they need to adhere to and it states they have to prove who was driving. IF these things go to court, then it can go down to the balance of probability, but you can easily sway this. Again, as you like, but that's not what the Schedule says. Rather, it outlines those steps that must be taken to recover and whilst it recommends recovery should be against the driver and may not be against the owner should the driver be established, it explicitly allows for recovery against the registered keeper (owner,) after all the owner will know to whom they've provided permission to use their vehicle at risk other offences arise if they haven't so authorised. In this case should the management company so choose and should the charge not be paid they are permitted to trace the owner, to provide them with the detail of the infringement, payment and appeals process and unless due cause is shown (theft, for example) then they may seek to recover their costs. That's a chance one takes. As previous, if you prevaricate most such claims do not proceed but if they do and are proven valid, a seemingly minor charge can turn into something far more onerous (penalties must be proportionate, charges have greater leeway as to what's 'reasonable', so worth checking what this particular operator has previously recovered.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, BTRFTG said: As you like. For completeness and for those following this thread the only exception relates to leased or hire vehicles, but if you are the hirer or lessor you'll note from your agreement you've accepted liability. Not at all. I have a lease vehicle and you just let the parking pikey company know you’re the hirer of the vehicle and never say the driver. They then take any company/companies out of the loop if they ever want to pursue. It can actually make things more difficult for the parking company as when dealing with hired/leases vehicles, they need to follow a different protocol to meet the requirement of even ‘trying’ to get money out of you and it most likely won’t stand in court. It’s anothe part of compliance with POFA 2012 Schedule 4! Trust me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: the parking pikey company Recall, in this case it isn't a parking company.... What you describe is simply the 'b*ggeration factor', the more difficult the recovery the less likely it is they'll bother. The base law underpinning, however, doesn't change and if they do seek to recover it can prove expensive. Having been on the board of one such estate management company I'd proffer a hint of caution - we had several tenant shareholders who likewise thought there wasn't much the company could do if they refused to settle their dues only to discover the expensive error in their assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Dazzler Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 17/12/2017 at 10:14, ciderage said: Returning to the car after yesterday's match I found a parking ticket on my windscreen. My mate who parks in the same area had one and i heard of another who parked somewhere else. Anyone else get one? We park on Spike Island near Vauxhall bridge where there's a council sign about needing a permit for Mon-Fri 9 to 5. Been parking here for at least 10+ years with no problems. The ticket doesn't look legit, A4 sheet of paper with date, time, reg no and PCN no handwritten on it. Header on sheet is Baltic Wharf Management Co Ltd with details of bank account to pay it to. I'll try to copy in Julie from A&S Police. It may be that local residents are fed up with us clogging their streets, which is understandable, but if you live near a major stadium you would probably have to live with this. ciderage, what was the outcome of this? I ask as I had a similar notice after the Norwich game. Funnily enough I always park in roughly the same space (and have done for a few years now) and thought I would be OK having got away with it when you were clocked during the Forest game. I also parked there for the Man Utd, Reading and Wolves games without getting a notice. My inclination is to cough up the £45 before getting into the realms of paying £100 plus possible court fees etc., but would be interested to see how your "case" has progressed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 The usual advice is wait for the Notice to Keeper, which I suspect will never arrive. Just keep the paperwork, definitely worth taking pics of signage just in case, and take note of Captain Hindsight, he's spot on. It looks to me like a try-on by the management company designed to scare people off with the hope of making a few ££££'s in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderage Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 Not paid, looks so easy to have been someone’s personal account. I haven’t heard anything yet, so looks like it’s the local residents getting what they want, empty spaces that aren’t used. Signage where I use to park hadn’t changed recently and there were Council sign for RPZ that needed permits Mon-Fri 9-5. Parking elsewhere now as I don’t want the hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 Finally some justice and fairness to be served up by the looks of things. I went to court today over some notices issued by NGPM. The cowards called their bluff, paying for the hearing. After looking at my side of things, they knew that I know any private PCN is defendable and they discontinued it late on Friday just gone. I have wasted time and arrived at court but as anyone willing to stand their ground, the clowns and their ‘solicitors’ back down and crawl back under their scam of a rock. They informed the court but didn’t tell me. Perhaps I’ll now sue them. Dicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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