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The Bristol City v Norwich City Match Day Thread 27


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10 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

Just give Preston whatever they want for Hugill. He'd have made the difference today.

Well, he would have had our crossing not been so crap. :whistle:

I thought Walsh's crosses and corners were driven  in with pace .

He looks a good little player . He had energy , was organising everyone around him and has quick feet .

As for Kent , début to forget .

Clearly way off match speed so eager to please so I'll say no more .

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I think we can't completely blame a cup run but the fact that ours has contained some huge games in which our players have ran around like men possessed due to our style, has impacted greatly. 

The wolves game was a massive mental blow having had them where we wanted them and on the brink of closing the gap right up, only to see them disappear from sight. 

It was easier to pick ourselves up for man city for obvious reasons (adrenalin for one) but the league is another animal and teams are raising their own games against us now, knowing what we're capable of. 

I've never felt so torn about the cup before. It is hurting us but the price is so alluring! 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

More than happy for Walsh and Kent to come into the squad, as they'll both prove valuable acquisitions over the coming months. My one gripe is that they both probably need a month or so to get up to speed, and being thrown into a team competing for promotion in one of the most physically draining leagues in Europe is not really ideal. Both need easing into the side gently. 

It would be great to add 2 more whom are really up to speed with the Championship, players you can pretty much throw into the deep end straight away. Still time to act on this, and I'm sure that the coaching staff/board will be looking even harder now and getting some more business done before the end of the month. 

Plus obviously getting Fam, Djuric and COD back in the next 3-4 weeks would be huge for us. 

James Maddison would be pretty handy on that showing. Best player on the pitch. 

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Just now, Major Isewater said:

I thought Walsh's crosses and corners were driven  in with pace .

He looks a good little player . He had energy , was organising everyone around him and has quick feet .

As for Kent , début to forget .

Clearly way off match speed so eager to please so I'll say no more .

I was referring more to our crossing during open play, which seemed to either hit the first defender, or just by-pass everyone we had charging into the box. We just seemed a bit naive in and around their box today, which is annoying considering how much of the ball we had. 

 

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A game we should have won, we were technically better all day, but today showed up how we over complicate our play and when that goes wrong we put ourselves in danger.

Our crossing was shocking and Bryan the worst offender, or free kicks lack any invention whatsoever, we barely created a worthwhile chance all game.

We had more than enough bodies in the box for their goal but the poor marking and lack of closing down was amateurish and a throwback to last season.

Last week the sky super computer predicted that we would end up coming 8th and on this performance they are correct.

Disappointing to say the least.

That all said I have decided to be generous with my marks, but there needs to be a lot of improvement and without doubt IMHO we need a right back and even more so a striker.

Fileding 6 Little or nothing to do and let down by his midfield and defence for the goal.

Wright 6 Defensively OK, offers nothing going forward.

Flint 7 Played well and gave everything as usual.

Baker 7 Also cool, calm and collected.

Bryan 6 Defensively fine but his crossing was awful.

Brownhill 6 Not up to his usual standard today, apart from his shot that hit the woodwork.

Walsh 7 Some neat touches, looks a find.

Pack 6 Couldn’t fault his effort, just never happened for him today.

Smith 6 Same as Pack.

Patterson 6 Tried his best but another not on his game today.

Reid 6 Same as Patterson.

Subs:- Firstly I thought taking Walsh off was a mistake, I would have taken Brownhill off.

Kent 6 Obviously a talent but should have scored with a good chance.

Taylor 3 Not championship quality, now doesn’t even off er anything coming off the bench.

Magnússon 6 Did nothing wrong.

LJ 5 I thought today we looked sluggish and bereft of ideas in the last third of the pitch, we never properly tested their keeper, we need a lot of crossing and free kick practice because today it was lousy. But having said that any danger today was self inflicted. 

And as I said I believe we need a right back and a striker, over to you LJ.

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4 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Even if just to get loads of fouls from his constant diving!!!

One of COD's best attributes is how many fouls he 'wins' in good positions around the box. 

Not a coincidence that our decline in goals from set pieces seems to have happened since he got injured. 

Edited by RedSA
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2 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

I was referring more to our crossing during open play, which seemed to either hit the first defender, or just by-pass everyone we had charging into the box. We just seemed a bit naive in and around their box today, which is annoying considering how much of the ball we had. 

 

There I agree , I still find it a bit bizarre hooking balls into the box against six footers when our attacking players are all so small.

It's like we just hope to get the second ball.

 The margins are very tight in this league and we were a bit unlucky.

Credit to Norwich though they did a good job on us .

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1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

There I agree , I still find it a bit bizarre hooking balls into the box against six footers when our attacking players are all so small.

It's like we just hope to get the second ball.

 The margins are very tight in this league and we were a bit unlucky.

Credit to Norwich though they did a good job on us .

Yeah Norwich looked handy on the break n all. Definitely a game where we huffed and we puffed, but unfortunately showed a real lack of quality in the final third. 

Just seen we had 64% of the possession too. Eeeek! 

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7 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

Yeah Norwich looked handy on the break n all. Definitely a game where we huffed and we puffed, but unfortunately showed a real lack of quality in the final third. 

Just seen we had 64% of the possession too. Eeeek! 

Yeah, it was very similar to the games against Burton, Bolton etc but much like Preston they actually had some quality on the counter to damage us. They'll be very happy with that performance. 

I don't know why none of our midfielders try to break the lines in these sorts of games though. It just goes side to side to side. We never try and disrupt their shape with runners from midfield. 

Edited by RedSA
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35 minutes ago, RedSA said:


I don't know why none of our midfielders try to break the lines in these sorts of games though. It just goes side to side to side. We never try and disrupt their shape with runners from midfield. 

Agree with this completely. All three central midfielders in the 1st half played with their backs to goal simply receiving passes and offloading them sideways or back for large periods of the half. I couldn’t help but feel they needed to try and run in behind and move their 5 man defence around, if anything to free up some space for Bobby. This improved in the second. If we are going to play like this we have to move the ball quicker and run into/create  space, If we do neither we will play like that (1st half). 

We looked at our most dangerous for 10 mins when Flint played up front, maybe we needed to scrap the total football and play in a different manner. The way we play must take it out of the players physically, today could have been a win ugly kind of day if we’d have gone abit more route one earlier on. 

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Frustrating game. First half our play was too slow but we improved after half time. It just seemed that the final ball lacked quality and our crossing was poor at times. God knows how that chance near the end didn't go in. Norwich were well-organised defensively and looked dangerous on the break.

Liam Walsh had a pretty good first full game. 

 

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Decent performance up until the subs, where we simply lacked a cutting edge because we rarely had enough players in the box. 

The pressing game is great but when teams set up for an away smash'n'grab we might have to ease off it and let them come forward, as it was they defended deep and we didn't have the craft to get behind them or the presence to get on the end of anything.  

We could have tried two up front earlier but I had the feeling without five across midfield we would have found it a lot harder to maintain as much ball.

Norwich weren't bad.  Not really good value for a win but nor were we.

Nothing to worry about but we could do with moving on Taylor and bringing in someone who can lead the line with Reid unless Diedhiou is going to return at full throttle.

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Success for myself was avoiding relegation, and a mid table finish. We are certainly on for that, the rest is a bonus. If we were serious about promotion, you have to buy players who can add something instantly,. That is not our policy, as we have failed by doing that in the past and we cannot afford to buy the quality that Wolves have for example,  so we have a slow build. We have been hugely hampered with out a right back or main centre forward for months, and maybe more months to come. We miss terribly  a Kodja /Tammy level forward as any team in this league would. We have adapted and tried to make the most of what we have, and damn well they have done. Next season, if we can build on this , and fill a couple more gaps, we will be a stronger top 6 competitor. But for now, with the lack of budget and injury list we have, anything top 10 is hitting above our weight. Last season the club was a shambles from top to bottom, all have sorted their act and made notable and pleasing progress. We might make the playoffs if a few players come back from injury and the new players get fit and up to speed fast, if we manage that, it will have been an exceptional season. 

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1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

A game we should have won, we were technically better all day, but today showed up how we over complicate our play and when that goes wrong we put ourselves in danger.

Our crossing was shocking and Bryan the worst offender, or free kicks lack any invention whatsoever, we barely created a worthwhile chance all game.

We had more than enough bodies in the box for their goal but the poor marking and lack of closing down was amateurish and a throwback to last season.

Last week the sky super computer predicted that we would end up coming 8th and on this performance they are correct.

Disappointing to say the least.

That all said I have decided to be generous with my marks, but there needs to be a lot of improvement and without doubt IMHO we need a right back and even more so a striker.

Fileding 6 Little or nothing to do and let down by his midfield and defence for the goal.

Wright 6 Defensively OK, offers nothing going forward.

Flint 7 Played well and gave everything as usual.

Baker 7 Also cool, calm and collected.

Bryan 6 Defensively fine but his crossing was awful.

Brownhill 6 Not up to his usual standard today, apart from his shot that hit the woodwork.

Walsh 7 Some neat touches, looks a find.

Pack 6 Couldn’t fault his effort, just never happened for him today.

Smith 6 Same as Pack.

Patterson 6 Tried his best but another not on his game today.

Reid 6 Same as Patterson.

Subs:- Firstly I thought taking Walsh off was a mistake, I would have taken Brownhill off.

Kent 6 Obviously a talent but should have scored with a good chance.

Taylor 3 Not championship quality, now doesn’t even off er anything coming off the bench.

Magnússon 6 Did nothing wrong.

LJ 5 I thought today we looked sluggish and bereft of ideas in the last third of the pitch, we never properly tested their keeper, we need a lot of crossing and free kick practice because today it was lousy. But having said that any danger today was self inflicted. 

And as I said I believe we need a right back and a striker, over to you LJ.

Sorry, but 6 for Kent?  I thought he was embarrassing.  2 would be about right.  On the other hand I thought Pack had one of his best games of the season.

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15 hours ago, Kingswoodactor said:

More than happy for Walsh and Kent to come into the squad, as they'll both prove valuable acquisitions over the coming months. My one gripe is that they both probably need a month or so to get up to speed, and being thrown into a team competing for promotion in one of the most physically draining leagues in Europe is not really ideal. Both need easing into the side gently. 

You are right, trouble is, the squad is so thin and knackered that LJ probably thought he was getting fresh legs when what he got was rustiness. As we have seen, mini runs change things, Jan fixtures always looked tough. Despite this run, we are still in the playoff spots, I still believe we can get back to second before May (which is the only time it matters-look at Rovers, they were only in the relegation spots for about 20 mjns that season, just the WRONG 20 mins) :D

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20 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

 

 

Hav

Enjoy the game, as LJ always says, there is nothing wrong with being short and sweet.

For some reason I thought you meant the sea water at Clevedon, then I saw this: https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/update/2018-01-11/people-in-clevedon-area-told-to-boil-water-before-use/

Maybe best to stick to the Royal Oak next time you need a drink! 

Certainly with you on the ear-rings

 

Royal Oak is a fine Inn. I did not enjoy the game obviously!! Thought we looked 5 yards off the pace to every ball. Thought our two weakest players were Wright and Brownhill; sorry but I have seen what is it 5 games during this trip back and Wright for me is decent but often gives the ball away, runs into brick walls and then we are in trouble; usually a fellow player will bail him out and that is what has actually impressed me most about the whole team; everyone covers for everyone else. Brownhill had an off day. Poor. 

18 hours ago, Fodbarmyarmy said:

Norwich fresh off of holding Chelsea....Mmm. .....Gonna be a tough one...

And so it proved.

17 hours ago, RedSA said:

Kent looks very rusty. Out of position for the goal, although I’m not sure what Bryan was doing so central. 

I thought we were significantly worse after he came on and an initial worry which I subliminally referred to in my opening post; i thought his attitude was all wrong; he looked like he was behaving like billy big bollox. Harsh words i am sure but I can only tell it as I, personally, see it. He did very little tracking back; their goal came from his walking pace track back on that wing. Lee needs to get him by the scruff of the neck or he will be a wasted loan. Probably the worst debut I have seen in a number of seasons. He can only get better.

16 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Are we heading for another 8 game defeat again?

 

3 in the league only so far but it today turned a corner into concern. 

16 hours ago, Johnr1986 said:

Think automatic looks unrealistic now, 3 loses in row bad form, can’t see us getting anything for Derby, would take 6th in heart beat right now! 

Think this is a premature conclusion. Cardiff lost 4 on the bounce and are now back up and running and there will be a number of twists and turns in the run in. That said, if we lose to Derby you may be right. And I am sure this is not lost on them. Eliminate us from a chance of 2nd spot and its down to a two horse race. We absolutely cannot lose that game but if we do and Villa win they will feel they have a shot of joining Derby and Cardiff for automatic. 

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16 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

A game we should have won, we were technically better all day,

No we should not have: we were (but only in some areas.)

We were no different yesterday than we have been for months. Whilst we keep managing to win it looks like a wonder formula but it takes the realization of defeat to crystallize our fundamental issue. I think we could be debating as much for the next few weeks.

Long term, you can't play football without strikers.

We've effectively been playing with 6 mids and nobody upfront but have been fortunate enough to have notched goals most weeks, sharing them around. Had either of Brownhill's strikes been six inches to the left we'd likely have celebrated at the end. We'd have winged it for another week. Reid played on his own upfront is not a striker. Whether he could be alongside a proper frontman we've yet to find out, though I don't think he is.

In the attacking department we are unable to see the wood for the metaphorical trees. Woodrow, Engvall, Taylor, Elliasson are totally failed acquisitions. We should move on.

Injuries notwithstanding I personally think WeeLee got it wrong by dropping Hodour. I'd have moved Bryan to left side mid and dropped Pack which I think provides greater balance and means Joe only has to make a 25 yard run to shoot cf the length of the pitch. 

I see many comments hereabouts finally realising if we need to bring somebody in then who do we drop from midfield? They've all done well, problem is they've done well when there's far more of them than their opponents. We need to work out whose best when there's parity?

I thought Walsh started to come into it second half after a sluggish start and can't believe people here are slaughtering Kent, who showed a number of great touches, deceptions and a real willingness to get forward. OK he lost all confidence by switching off and not covering the run for their goal, but  we should have handled that (far too narrow at the back, Bryan picked up nothing but the junction of the 6 yard box and Baker shouldn't have got sucked in.) If Walsh is the future then Pack or Smith would seem natural for the bench, though if Bryan is wide left that's both gone and how does that get us the ball? I assume Reid is the front of the midfield 5 , between the line of 4 and targetman.

Norwich showed what a striker gives you, especially if they've pace. We may have had the ball, lots of lateral passes, very little goal threat and I laugh when punters bemoan ' they played on the break'. They did and boy is it effective. If we had the personnel perhaps we could do likewise.

 

 

Edited by BTRFTG
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BTFTG; ref the metaphorical slaughtering of Kent; I would like to place it in the context of the players we already have and how they play. I already mentioned how they all cover for each other when out of position, bound to happen, or make a mistake, now and again a certainty. Every time I see City play I am reminded how hard Smith, Reid and Pato run on and off the ball almost for 90 minutes. I bet if you look at the stats they are consistently at the top of the tree. The other players, not wishing to single just those out, are not far behind. Kent can only get better but, in my humbles, he had a mare of a debut and deserves a lot of criticism. That is what football and opinions are about but, most importantly, while you can excuse a poor performance it is hard to do so with attitude and it looked wrong with him yesterday.

Just want to add that I thought Flint, particularly, was immense again yesterday. If we keep him into next season it will be a miraculous feat.

 

Edited by havanatopia
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2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

No we should not have: we were (but only in some areas.)

We were no different yesterday than we have been for months. Whilst we keep managing to win it looks like a wonder formula but it takes the realization of defeat to crystallize our fundamental issue. I think we could be debating as much for the next few weeks.

Long term, you can't play football without strikers.

We've effectively been playing with 6 mids and nobody upfront but have been fortunate enough to have notched goals most weeks, sharing them around. Had either of Brownhill's strikes been six inches to the left we'd likely have celebrated at the end. We'd have winged it for another week. Reid played on his own upfront is not a striker. Whether he could be alongside a proper frontman we've yet to find out, though I don't think he is.

In the attacking department we are unable to see the wood for the metaphorical trees. Woodrow, Engvall, Taylor, Elliasson are totally failed acquisitions. We should move on.

Injuries notwithstanding I personally think WeeLee got it wrong by dropping Hodour. I'd have moved Bryan to left side mid and dropped Pack which I think provides greater balance and means Joe only has to make a 25 yard run to shoot cf the length of the pitch. 

I see many comments hereabouts finally realising if we need to bring somebody in then who do we drop from midfield? They've all done well, problem is they've done well when there's far more of them than their opponents. We need to work out whose best when there's parity?

I thought Walsh started to come into it second half after a sluggish start and can't believe people here are slaughtering Kent, who showed a number of great touches, deceptions and a real willingness to get forward. OK he lost all confidence by switching off and not covering the run for their goal, but  we should have handled that (far too narrow at the back, Bryan picked up nothing but the junction of the 6 yard box and Baker shouldn't have got sucked in.) If Walsh is the future then Pack or Smith would seem natural for the bench, though if Bryan is wide left that's both gone and how does that get us the ball? I assume Reid is the front of the midfield 5 , between the line of 4 and targetman.

Norwich showed what a striker gives you, especially if they've pace. We may have had the ball, lots of lateral passes, very little goal threat and I laugh when punters bemoan ' they played on the break'. They did and boy is it effective. If we had the personnel perhaps we could do likewise.

 

 

You will not get an argument from me reference strikers, we have 3 so called 'specialist' strikers who cannot even get a game when we have 2 strikers long term injured, this for me renders these 3 unfit for purpose IMHO and we need a 'proper' striker and will have to pay whatever it takes to sign the 'right' one.

However I would put Magnússon in the same category as we both put our failed strikers, I really don't think that he is good enough and I don't subscribe to the 'there's a good player in their somewhere' theory, I would shift Woodrow, Taylor, Engvall and Magnússon and add GON and Hegeler, even when fit the last 2 offer nothing.

As for Eliasson, for me the jury is still out in the same way that the jury was out regarding ODowda last season, a player who won me over with his huge improvement up until his injury this season, I think he just needs time.

Where I do disagree is your last paragraph because other than the goal (which was down to a shocking and total meltdown by midfield and defence alike), I cannot remember Fielding having to make anything other than routine saves, they did play on the break and it worked once apart from that the threat was usually nullified at the edge of our box, on reflection there was also Baker's first half brilliant goal  line clearance, but that was it for me.

Where I think they really did win it was pinning back/down both of our full backs, keeping them both fully occupied and when they did manage to venture forward they doubled up on them as well, making them both impotent.

All season our free kicks (apart from one Patterson v Derby was it?) have been embarrassingly poor, uninventive and shockingly executed and that really needs serious attention, also our crossing has been generally poor, we never seem to have the ability to tailor our crosses the strikers playing for us on any given day and that is another area that needs attention.

In short we need a right back (a loaner might suffice) and a striker worthy of the title.

I do agree with the premise that to an extent we have gotten away with it striker wise and now that our plan B of pushing Flint up top isn't working, I think we now need a proper fix and quickly.

But IMHO we should have won the game and we were the better side, I don't think there is much wrong but the sooner we bring in a 'proper' striker and push Reid back into the number 10 role the better, but I fear that the slide will carry on at Derby and we only know to well about BCFC and losing streaks.

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3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Kent can only get better but, in my humbles, he had a mare of a debut and deserves a lot of criticism

In his defence the kid had just arrived days before and was given a 20 minute run-out. First couple of touches were excellent, his run and dropped shoulder that wrong footed their defence was just what we'll be looking for. He overran one when perhaps he should have crossed but, as of late, there was little in the box for him to cross to.

He switched off for the goal (as did Edwards last week at Watford) and unlike on that occasion seemed to let it get to him. The crowd got on his back for the his lack of control in front of the Dolman, not bothering the pass to him wasn't great. Ditto the lost ball 'mix-up' when not on the same wavelength as ?(forget which experienced midfielder.) On that basis I'm not sure how anybody could suggest his attitude wasn't right.

The point you make about the middle of our park is valid, we run our socks off and press and doubtless the stats look fab. But Disraeli said all one needs to know about stats. Of the 3 you highlight (also applies to the rest) their pass completion rates are doubtless high but, like Ray Wilkins, that's not difficult if they're mostly short, lateral or going back to the keeper. All great sides need to do that; all great sides have a creative body as well. Even in our Div 1 days the fickle crowd saw Tainton do no wrong and lambasted Cormack every time he ceded possession, not caring the only three chances we'd created all game came through his vision and artistry. 

We knocked it around nicely yesterday, but on too many occasions back to Fielding to launch offensively. Therein lies the problem with no striker. Going forward is inherently more risky and harder but we should recognise that and be more forgiving of players who are prepared and able to attempt the more challenging aspects of the game.

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