Son of Fred Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Got to say @Harry We all know you are no fan of JB for some reason But in essence to blame him and complete a detailed analysis of any perceived mistake in it for the goal is incredible , in a.game where , whether at his best or not I thought he was our most likely to create , or score a goal and would have been close with Flint for MOM for me Wed be a very much poorer side , in many respects without Joe Bryan Joe is a far better midfield player than he is a left back..... Wasted even as a fullback...…........pushing Joe back and dropping Mags to accom Walsh,with so little action under 'ees belt was insane.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 If all fit my side would be based around this structure atm (With cover / replacement in Brackets Fielding (Steele) Pisano (Wright). Flint (Wright) Baker (Wright) Bryan (Hörður) COD (Brownhill) Smith (Walsh) Pack (Walsh/Brownhill). Patterson (Kent / Bryan) Reid (Patterson) Famara (Duric / Reid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 @BobBobSuperBob strong 18 or so once all fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: If all fit my side would be based around this structure atm (With cover / replacement in Brackets Fielding (Steele) Pisano (Wright). Flint (Wright) Baker (Wright) Bryan (Hörður) COD (Brownhill) Smith (Walsh) Pack (Walsh/Brownhill). Patterson (Kent / Bryan) Reid (Patterson) Famara (Duric / Reid) Hardly Wernher Von Braun is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, spudski said: I hope to be proved wrong....but I'm struggling to see how Kent fits in with our style of play. We've also forgotten about Elliason in the bigger picture. Magners, Kent, Woodrow, Elliason, Hegeler, Taylor, Odowda, Kelly, Vyner, Duric/Famara, Oneil, Pisano...all competing for places or coming back...a few will be disappointed. I wonder what Eliasson must have thought when we have made big efforts to get Kent in Appears Lee thinks he still needs more development Cant see Hegeler or Gary ONeill making many more appearances in a red shirt personally Ive put my team base structure / thoughts going forward above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said: Hardly Wernher Von Braun is it. Just googled it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 I can't believe people see Joe Bryan as only an average championship left back. He's shown enough displays of quality this season to warrant his title as a premier league quality left back. Would much rather see Bryan and Eliasson than Magnússon and Bryan down the left hand side, If I was NE I would be wondering what I'd done wrong for Kent to have got ahead of me already in the pecking order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I wonder what Eliasson must have thought when we have made big efforts to get Kent in Appears Lee thinks he still needs more development Cant see Hegeler or Gary ONeill making many more appearances in a red shirt personally Ive put my team base structure / thoughts going forward above I agree with your thoughts re team....as to whether it's the right thing, we'll have to see. I see Kent as our biggest problem now. He may become the new 'Tomlin'. As in having to play him. I see his talent but no end product yet...much like Leko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Got to say @Harry We all know you are no fan of JB for some reason But in essence to blame him and complete a detailed analysis of any perceived mistake in it for the goal is incredible , in a.game where , whether at his best or not I thought he was our most likely to create , or score a goal and would have been close with Flint for MOM for me Wed be a very much poorer side , in many respects without Joe Bryan For some reason he saves it for Bryan. Every mistake is lept on. cant see how he can lead the singing section and stalk Bryans every breath. Bryan was covering Kent while others were not picking up. If the CB's pushed up they would have been in better starting positions and they did need to be on the edge of the six yard box al defending v ?? Bryan had that covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, spudski said: I agree with your thoughts re team....as to whether it's the right thing, we'll have to see. I see Kent as our biggest problem now. He may become the new 'Tomlin'. As in having to play him. I see his talent but no end product yet...much like Leko. Didn’t see the Barnsley game last year so have limited pre knowledge of him Spud so will have to reserve any real opinion Did show on a couple of occasions in a very mixed cameo that he has the confidence and ability to run at and go past opposition players - something we aren’t over blessed with , around the squad- so I can see why LJ may think he gives us something different I am assuming that LJ is maybe a tad dissapointed in Eliassons game contributions to date as he has bigged up his abilities shown in training on a few occasions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Shtanley said: I can't believe people see Joe Bryan as only an average championship left back. He's shown enough displays of quality this season to warrant his title as a premier league quality left back. Would much rather see Bryan and Eliasson than Magnússon and Bryan down the left hand side, If I was NE I would be wondering what I'd done wrong for Kent to have got ahead of me already in the pecking order. Tell me which games he’s shown premier league quality as a left back? I agree he’s had some very good games as a left midfielder. Can’t recall a consistent bunch of 8/10’s as a full back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: For some reason he saves it for Bryan. Every mistake is lept on. cant see how he can lead the singing section and stalk Bryans very breath. Bryan was covering Kent while others were not picking up. If the CB's pushed up they would have been in better starting positions and they did need to be on the edge of the six yard box al defending v ?? Bryan had that covered. What has being someone who stands in the unreserved area and likes to sing a bit, got anything to do with tactical analysis of a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 My impression is that LJ was encouraged by what he saw of Walsh as a substitute to see how he went as a starter, considering he's not played at this level before. However he didn't want to stay out on the left and it did cause some confusion & took Paterson out of position to cover him. As for Kent, it was more a case of he hasn't played much at all recently, let's give him a run (literally). As it was Junior Kent didn't really do what we needed especially once we fell behind. Hopefully LJ will use Kent sparingly to start with & aim to clarify with Walsh where he wants him to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswoodactor Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 32 minutes ago, JonDolman said: This is what I feel is johnson's preferred team: Fielding Wright. Flint. Baker. Bryan O'Dowda smith brownhill Paterson Reid Diedhiou Surely Johnson’s ‘preference’ would be for Pisano, our no 1 RB to be in the side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, spudski said: You'd drop Wright completely Dave? For me.... -----------------------------------------------------Fielding--------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------Wright----------------------------Flint------------------------------Baker-------------------------- -----------------------------------Smith-------------------------------Pack/Walsh---------------------------------- ---Brownhill-----------------------Reid---------------------------Kent-----------------------------------Bryan---- --------------------------------------------------Famara/Duric-------------------------------------------------------- Subs.....to fit. Interesting lineup, with the solid back three and utilising the energy of Bryan and Brownhill as wingbacks. One question - why Kent rather than Paterson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: My impression is that LJ was encouraged by what he saw of Walsh as a substitute to see how he went as a starter, considering he's not played at this level before. However he didn't want to stay out on the left and it did cause some confusion & took Paterson out of position to cover him. As for Kent, it was more a case of he hasn't played much at all recently, let's give him a run (literally). As it was Junior Kent didn't really do what we needed especially once we fell behind. Hopefully LJ will use Kent sparingly to start with & aim to clarify with Walsh where he wants him to play. However good/adequate they both turn out to be they surely are only squad players and moreover will need time,which isn't on our side, to settle in Don't see either as an indication to go all out for promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Harry said: Tell me which games he’s shown premier league quality as a left back? I agree he’s had some very good games as a left midfielder. Can’t recall a consistent bunch of 8/10’s as a full back though. Fulham away I recall him finding it so easy to deal with their right hand side. Reading away I thought he was ridiculously good, Wolves away against Cavaleiro was a outstanding 1v1 battle against a champions league player. I think to call JB an average Championship left back is extremely harsh. Especially considering he hasn't really got a proper flank-partner in front of him, almost comparable to how Brownhill doesn't have a proper right back playing behind him. Would you prefer Magnússon at left back to Bryan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Harry said: What has being someone who stands in the unreserved area and likes to sing a bit, got anything to do with tactical analysis of a player? your in the singing section as part of that section 82 and when I used to sing it was nigh on impossible to analyse a players performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Shtanley said: Fulham away I recall him finding it so easy to deal with their right hand side. Reading away I thought he was ridiculously good, Wolves away against Cavaleiro was a outstanding 1v1 battle against a champions league player. I think to call JB an average Championship left back is extremely harsh. Especially considering he hasn't really got a proper flank-partner in front of him, almost comparable to how Brownhill doesn't have a proper right back playing behind him. Would you prefer Magnússon at left back to Bryan? Man of the match away v Leeds last season. Destroyed Ayling. wrecked him. changed my mind about him in one game. tremendous. like the extra space he can get there and provide width with the real quality he has. I think some want him to be average because its easier to get the aggressive no nonsense but actually cant play types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said: Man of the match away v Leeds last season. Destroyed Ayling. wrecked him. changed my mind about him in one game. tremendous. like the extra space he can get there and provide width with the real quality he has. I think some want him to be average because its easier to get the aggressive no nonsense but actually cant play types. Actually I think it's the other way around. Because Bryan is such a good player, he can get away with playing at left back a lot of the time, even though defensively he is not that good but going forward he is excellent. He is a good strong tackler but his positional sense when defending is too often a bit wayward, and as mentioned before because he didn't start out as a left back, he doesn't have that instinct for trouble that the best defenders have. He is certainly way better than average at this level in that position, but I think he might quickly get found out defensively at Premier League level, which is where many think he is good enough to be playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNight Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 hours ago, ashton_fan said: So we buy Grabban for £8m to cover the 3 or 4 weeks until Diedhiou is available then Djuric a couple of weeks later when only one of them will get in the side max? Doesn't make sense. Also if we lose at Derby it's not all over for second, still plenty of games left. Personally I think we'll finish 4th or 5th which will still be a good season with a chance of promotion. We are paying the price of our cup run but who on here would rather we hadn't had it? Imagine deserving 4th or 5th as a "good season". before the season , 4th or 5th would of been an unrealistic dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcolebristol Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Dr Balls said: As is so often on here, after today's game the forum's contributors seem to be splitting into the glass half full & glass half empty camps. But the reality is that we have lost at home again to a physical, well organised team who press higher up the pitch as per Preston. Nothing special and had been on a bad run but come with a plan & go away with 3 points.To a degree, I think we have been "found out". Millwall at home early in the season was very similar. We don't have any physical presence upfront with an isolated Bobby Reid, and although we played lots of nice stuff in midfield, we really didn't do much in the penalty box, while our shots from outside the box, with the exception of Brownhill's effort, were never going to trouble a half decent goalkeeper. To be fair even LJ seems to have said as much in his post-match interview. We need a striker ASAP & clearly Matty Taylor isn't going to score in this league any time soon. Nor does anyone think Cauley Woodrow is going to do the business, while Engvall can't even get on the bench. I am not sure that we can wait on Djuric or Diedhiou coming back from injury & immediately being up for it. That could be weeks away. We need someone now. Someone mentioned Lewis Grabban today. Anyone who can score 12 goals in 19 games this season for Sunderland must have something to offer at this level. If his loan at Sunderland is up, he would certainly seem to be an option. Also much though I like Joe Bryan a lot, I wish LJ would stop playing him at left back. I admit he had little cover in front of him at times, but the amounts of space given to their No 2. Pinto today was shocking. And unlike when he plays in midfield & stays out wide, at left back Joe keeps drifting closer to the centre back, and doesn't close down out wide. Keep Magnússon at left back & Joe in left midfield. Certainly if we want to retain our shape against Derby that would appear to be the best option. As for Walsh & Kent next week, I would limit them both to short cameos from the subs bench. I thought this week was a "must not lose" game, but lose at Derby on Friday & all chance of an automatic spot will be gone already at this stage of the season. Pipe down. Everyone was saying Bryan was Prem standard LB just a few weeks ago. today was just a day where been signings didn’t gel. I’m just as annoyed as the next guy, but we’re still play offs so on to the next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Dr Balls said: Actually I think it's the other way around. Because Bryan is such a good player, he can get away with playing at left back a lot of the time, even though defensively he is not that good but going forward he is excellent. He is a good strong tackler but his positional sense when defending is too often a bit wayward, and as mentioned before because he didn't start out as a left back, he doesn't have that instinct for trouble that the best defenders have. He is certainly way better than average at this level in that position, but I think he might quickly get found out defensively at Premier League level, which is where many think he is good enough to be playing. This is the case of the modern defender is expected to be (by many) a true footballer. A footballer that plays the full length of the pitch = Full back. It is the case for BCFC, and when they cannot do this adeptly e.g. Goldbourne/Little the team suffers. Possession is defending and attack. Technical players allow more tactical flexibility in defence and attack. Players run more, pass more now than at any point in history and this is where football will continue to head. Bryan is all about passing more, more possession, being highly technical. At premier level team after team play defensive midfielders to cover full backs that are pushed up and also now inverted. Team after team favours full backs that play the full length of the pitch ... The flat back four, 4-4-2 and wingers hugging the line is gone. Lee Johnson use of Joe Bryan represents that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive user Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 No doubt we have a squad capable of challenging once we get a few back to fitness. We don't need a raft of incoming to upset the togetherness of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Davefevs said: Just googled it What you get up to in the privacy of your own home is nobodies business but your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Harry said: Joe is a great footballer technically and physically. He does however lack the speed of thought, awareness, instinctiveness to be a top class defender. Bryan's 'arrogance' ( I'll give him the benefit over lack of understanding,) is he believes his speed is sufficient to allow him to stand off his opponent. Sometimes he's right, usually he's wrong. With all the effort he puts in it would be crazy to call him lazy but once in the general vicinity why not go the whole hog and get within 5 yards? He makes great tackles but isn't a full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Offside said: Interesting lineup, with the solid back three and utilising the energy of Bryan and Brownhill as wingbacks. One question - why Kent rather than Paterson? Should have been Kent/Pato....my error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 I kind of agree that Bryan is not a perfect defensive Left Back, but I don’t think it’s right to say he’s not a LB. Its s bit like saying Des Walker was a bad CB because he relied on his pace. If we look at one of England’s best LBs (open to opinion) Ashley Cole - he had two spells as an international: 1. An overlapping full back who was a tad suspect on his defensive aspects 2. A vastly improved LB who rarely got made the better of, but offered bugger all going forward. I actually preferred 1. Because opposition could stifle us when he became 2. Just look at our current RB as a comparison to Joe. It’s about the balance, will watch the goal later, but Joe isn’t at fault for many of our goals conceded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidre Monita Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 12 hours ago, spudski said: I couldn't make today's game...but when hearing on the radio that Mags had been dropped, my first thought at hearing we had lost 1-0 was that it come down our left. Low and behold on watching the highlights...my fears are proved right. I wouldn't blame Bryan for it...more so Kent for not noticing the fullback making a move and allowing the crossfield pass to happen with the space given and move inside not closed down. My first thoughts with these new signings, was that certain players would be 'rested' to allow the new signings to bed. Today was a prime example. You can dominate games, but if you make mistakes like that one, you'll be punished. I personally think we are stronger with Mags at LB and JB in LM. Bryan is great going forward from LB, but less effective as a defender imo. We play an expansive and free game. We need a solid back four for that game to succeed. With JB at LB, I think it leaves us way to weak with our game plan. My biggest worry is that LJ thinks JB at LB and Kent in LM is the way forward. Happy to be proved wrong, but a JB and RK/JP left side is asking for trouble defensively. I would have placed getting a right and left back along with a striker as priority over the two already signed, maybe that will happen . I do not see JB as a left back (that is a LJ conviction, I guess based on his pace), he is not up to it defensively, and both Magers and Wright are covering players for an injured first choice full back. We have a growing group of players that are not contributing to the match day squad or troubling the first team, O'Neil, Hegeler, Moore , Elliason Taylor, Engval, Golborne ( now injured for rest of the season), and Pisano, Fama, O'dowda and Duric having had major injuries and needing recovery time . We have one forward up to this level available and he is a coveted midfielder. Squad looks unbalanced . Very surprised that we signed two for midfield in that context, more so when one of them is on loan with a financial obligation to play when he is out of match practice and fitness. I hope we don't forget how we got to where we are this season by over thinking it again and getting too clever . Signing two midfield players would not have been easily understood by the team. Back to your point, and I am happy to proven wrong too, JB is not a LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robc Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 I agree with Psychopomp that the squad looks ever more unbalanced - how many central midfielders do we need? My biggest concern however is the consequence of this - the way LJ plays people out of position so he can fit them in the team. Josh Brownhill is far too good in the Centre to play out wide on the Right and playing Jamie Paterson out on the left yesterday was just plain bonkers. I think that LJ has worked wonders this season especially given all the injuries but Jamie P is, in my view, the best playmaker at the club. He's a real threat with a fluid role in the centre linking up with Bobby Reid. Playing him out wide leaves Reid isolated in the centre and requires Pato to take on defensive responsibilities as well, which seriously diminishes his scope to influence things going forward. For me this is deja vu - LJ did exactly the same thing with Lee Tomlin last season and he should not be repeating the error he made then, which did not end well. I fear that we will be meeting QPR in two weeks time on the back of 7 successive defeats and although I know it's not like last season it is really dispiriting given our pre-Christmas form. Yesterday, he should have left Maggers at LB, Joe out on the wing, and Paterson where he was. In other words the team that did so well at Man City. The two new guys could have been introduced as subs, although there is little point playing an out and out winger unless we have someone who can head the ball up top. I fear he will want to play Walsh, Brownhill, Smith and Pack in the same team and I am very sceptical that that will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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