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How to negate "the press"


Port Said Red

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I thought Peps tactics last night may have gone under the radar because of all the talent at his disposal, but I thought there were some interesting things out there.

When the keeper got the ball there were at least 3 options for him to use to get away from an on rushing player. He had to "flankers" and a player in front of him to one side of the box. It meant that for us to press them we had to commit several players forward to do it effectively, which of course means spaces that can be exploited furher up the pitch. 

I also noticed that they almost took Flint put of the game, by rarely having a striker in a central position, it reduced him to making intercepting blocks as the ball came in from wide positions for their midfield runners. The latter may just be because of the way Aguero plays, as I said elsewhere, his was a masterclass in how a striker should move around the pitch.

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought Peps tactics last night may have gone under the radar because of all the talent at his disposal, but I thought there were some interesting things out there.

When the keeper got the ball there were at least 3 options for him to use to get away from an on rushing player. He had to "flankers" and a player in front of him to one side of the box. It meant that for us to press them we had to commit several players forward to do it effectively, which of course means spaces that can be exploited furher up the pitch. 

I also noticed that they almost took Flint put of the game, by rarely having a striker in a central position, it reduced him to making intercepting blocks as the ball came in from wide positions for their midfield runners. The latter may just be because of the way Aguero plays, as I said elsewhere, his was a masterclass in how a striker should move around the pitch.

Yes I noticed that. They constantly passed the ball back across their 18 yard line as if encouraging us to press them, and when we did they had the outlets to break at speed. One of the disadvantages of a 2 leg semi I guess, as they had more of an idea of our style of play.

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought Peps tactics last night may have gone under the radar because of all the talent at his disposal, but I thought there were some interesting things out there.

When the keeper got the ball there were at least 3 options for him to use to get away from an on rushing player. He had to "flankers" and a player in front of him to one side of the box. It meant that for us to press them we had to commit several players forward to do it effectively, which of course means spaces that can be exploited furher up the pitch. 

I also noticed that they almost took Flint put of the game, by rarely having a striker in a central position, it reduced him to making intercepting blocks as the ball came in from wide positions for their midfield runners. The latter may just be because of the way Aguero plays, as I said elsewhere, his was a masterclass in how a striker should move around the pitch.

It is affected by what is going on further up the pitch.

Forwards push up into positions beyond the opposing defence. Full backs and wide players split high (half way), the central midfield play equally high so if Bristol City do go into a full press Bravo can go long playing into a overload and if Flint does win the first ball Bristol City would be outmanned by five on the half way line.

When Man City went short the above drop into the hole. Bristol City pressed and their Keeper played the key pass to take out five players in the first leg.

Its a tactical masterclass due to the flexibility in each position on the pitch. They are all technical so are more tactical starting with Goalkeeper.

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On the other hand, I don't see Millwall or Burton defending so high up the pitch giving us an option on the break.

And for most of the first half until the goal, we demonstrated how hard it can be to break down a side defending deep, even if you have the better players and almost exclusive possession. It's something we have experienced against teams who have done the same at AG.

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It was fascinating to watch, to be honest. 

The goalkeeper becomes one of the key elements of offensive moves under Pep - and it makes a lot of sense really. They effectively become an 'extra man', utilised to constantly create an extra 5 yards of space (whether that switching flank with a cross field pass, a feint then short pass to take a striker out the game etc.). This simply isn't possible for most teams, as keepers aren't sure enough with their feet as Ederson and Bravo. I think other managers 'like' to have a ball playing goalkeeper, yet with Pep is is essential, and non-negotiable - they HAVE to be, or his teams ability to create space (by sucking offensive players in) would be negated.

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Pep has said, it's not about tactics or formations solely...he said he could play any way. He's said it is mainly down to the quality of players he has at his disposal. Their quickness of mind, ability, fitness, technique etc.

However...it's common now for managers to be looking for keepers that are just as good as the defenders at playing football, and not just their goalkeeping ability. More so in Europe, but making it's way across now. Lucic is one...but got us in trouble a few times in the past, because our defenders got into trouble when receiving a pass from him. He was used to playing with a higher calibre of player at Munich.

Pep plays very expansive. With players on each touchline, regardless of where the ball is. No other team does this. It's often like they are playing with nine outfield players, with an outlet option on the other side of the pitch.

It's because of their quality, they are able to do this. They are unflustered, and don't lose the ball. Always having an option to spread the ball and drag the opposition out of position.

You wouldn't be able to do this with 'normal' players. They are that good.

Their body positioning, reading of the game, off the ball movement, stamina, understanding, technique etc, was mind blowing. Best I've ever seen across a whole team live. Better than Barcelona and Real Madrid imo.

I was sat next to Jens Hegeler, Callum Odowda and Taylor Moore yesterday...I chuckled watching them watch the game. Never have I seen three players so transfixed, with eyes bulging in awe at the way Man City moved the ball...like three small boys watching p**n for the first time :laugh: was funny.

Really enjoyed the two games against Man City...was a pleasure to watch two teams playing football as it should be.

 

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4 minutes ago, underhanded said:

It was fascinating to watch, to be honest. 

The goalkeeper becomes one of the key elements of offensive moves under Pep - and it makes a lot of sense really. They effectively become an 'extra man', utilised to constantly create an extra 5 yards of space (whether that switching flank with a cross field pass, a feint then short pass to take a striker out the game etc.). This simply isn't possible for most teams, as keepers aren't sure enough with their feet as Ederson and Bravo. I think other managers 'like' to have a ball playing goalkeeper, yet with Pep is is essential, and non-negotiable - they HAVE to be, or his teams ability to create space (by sucking offensive players in) would be negated.

70% of the Goalkeepers game is played with the feet. That detail is from the FA's Keeping course. 

By having a Bravo or Ederson in goal Man City defend the ball less because they give it away less. The difference is hundreds of possessions a season.

Add Stones passing accuracy and his defending team mates and  its thousands. 

 

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought Peps tactics last night may have gone under the radar because of all the talent at his disposal, but I thought there were some interesting things out there.

When the keeper got the ball there were at least 3 options for him to use to get away from an on rushing player. He had to "flankers" and a player in front of him to one side of the box. It meant that for us to press them we had to commit several players forward to do it effectively, which of course means spaces that can be exploited furher up the pitch. 

I also noticed that they almost took Flint put of the game, by rarely having a striker in a central position, it reduced him to making intercepting blocks as the ball came in from wide positions for their midfield runners. The latter may just be because of the way Aguero plays, as I said elsewhere, his was a masterclass in how a striker should move around the pitch.

The one that I’ve noticed, from the 1st leg rather than last night & also in other televised Man City games is that when the ball is played back to their keeper & the opposition press him, KDB takes up a position beyond the press & in space, the ball is played 30-40 yards directly to him & it only leaves the opposition with defenders able to close him down (as the majority of other opponents are now beyond the ball) & within 2 touches KDB already knows where Aguero or Jesus are already making their run from their own half (shouldn’t be offside) & the other defenders are busy watching the ball or play in front of them. KDB knocks the ball diagonally over the top & it basically allows their striker half a pitch to run at.

This is all done without KDB looking or having to slow things down but is clearly worked on & in theory only requires 3 players to work on it & allows Man City to break at huge speed & with the pace of KDB, Sterling, Sane etc, it means they can break & go from defence to attack in a matter of seconds & it’s not involving ‘long ball football’.

It’s that ‘artificial intelligence’ thing, knowing what to expect the opposition to do when you have the ball in certain areas of the pitch & knowing how opposition players will react to certain situations. It’s a very clever move & in the hurley-burley of a match can completely destroy an opposition especially when you have the players Man City have to take advantage of it because if you drop off to not give them the room over the top they’ll destroy you with their tikka-takka football.

It’s all about options & not being predictable.

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1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

The one that I’ve noticed, from the 1st leg rather than last night & also in other televised Man City games is that when the ball is played back to their keeper & the opposition press him, KDB takes up a position beyond the press & in space, the ball is played 30-40 yards directly to him & it only leaves the opposition with defenders able to close him down (as the majority of other opponents are now beyond the ball) & within 2 touches KDB already knows where Aguero or Jesus are already making their run from their own half (shouldn’t be offside) & the other defenders are busy watching the ball or play in front of them. KDB knocks the ball diagonally over the top & it basically allows their striker half a pitch to run at.

This is all done without KDB looking or having to slow things down but is clearly worked on & in theory only requires 3 players to work on it & allows Man City to break at huge speed & with the pace of KDB, Sterling, Sane etc, it means they can break & go from defence to attack in a matter of seconds & it’s not involving ‘long ball football’.

It’s that ‘artificial intelligence’ thing, knowing what to expect the opposition to do when you have the ball in certain areas of the pitch & knowing how opposition players will react to certain situations. It’s a very clever move & in the hurley-burley of a match can completely destroy an opposition especially when you have the players Man City have to take advantage of it because if you drop off to not give them the room over the top they’ll destroy you with their tikka-takka football.

It’s all about options & not being predictable.

I knew you'd say that.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Pep has said, it's not about tactics or formations solely...he said he could play any way. He's said it is mainly down to the quality of players he has at his disposal. Their quickness of mind, ability, fitness, technique etc.

However...it's common now for managers to be looking for keepers that are just as good as the defenders at playing football, and not just their goalkeeping ability. More so in Europe, but making it's way across now. Lucic is one...but got us in trouble a few times in the past, because our defenders got into trouble when receiving a pass from him. He was used to playing with a higher calibre of player at Munich.

Pep plays very expansive. With players on each touchline, regardless of where the ball is. No other team does this. It's often like they are playing with nine outfield players, with an outlet option on the other side of the pitch.

It's because of their quality, they are able to do this. They are unflustered, and don't lose the ball. Always having an option to spread the ball and drag the opposition out of position.

You wouldn't be able to do this with 'normal' players. They are that good.

Their body positioning, reading of the game, off the ball movement, stamina, understanding, technique etc, was mind blowing. Best I've ever seen across a whole team live. Better than Barcelona and Real Madrid imo.

I was sat next to Jens Hegeler, Callum Odowda and Taylor Moore yesterday...I chuckled watching them watch the game. Never have I seen three players so transfixed, with eyes bulging in awe at the way Man City moved the ball...like three small boys watching p**n for the first time :laugh: was funny.

Really enjoyed the two games against Man City...was a pleasure to watch two teams playing football as it should be.

 

O'Dowda off the crutches? Don't suppose you asked him when he'll be back?? I think LJ said another 2-4 weeks about a week ago. I think...

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57 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

O'Dowda off the crutches? Don't suppose you asked him when he'll be back?? I think LJ said another 2-4 weeks about a week ago. I think...

He was walking very gingerly mate...I'd be surprised if he were back in that time tbh.

Can't believe how small framed he is and boyish looks of a 12 year old. They all look so much bigger on the pitch. Thought he was a kid at first...it was only his Club tracksuit that made me look twice.

Hegeler on the other hand, looked like he was dressed for Syberia....full on Club jacket, mahoosive scarf and hood up chivering :laugh:

Was also surprised how small the League Cup is in real life. Always thought it to be bigger.

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

He was walking very gingerly mate...I'd be surprised if he were back in that time tbh.

Can't believe how small framed he is and boyish looks of a 12 year old. They all look so much bigger on the pitch. Thought he was a kid at first...it was only his Club tracksuit that made me look twice.

Hegeler on the other hand, looked like he was dressed for Syberia....full on Club jacket, mahoosive scarf and hood up chivering :laugh:

Was also surprised how small the League Cup is in real life. Always thought it to be bigger.

O'Dowda is a small framed guy, despite being 6ft+ I'd be very surprised if he's over 11 stone.

Paterson must be 10 stone wet through - which is why that illness knocked him for 6 recently.

 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

O'Dowda is a small framed guy, despite being 6ft+ I'd be very surprised if he's over 11 stone.

Paterson must be 10 stone wet through - which is why that illness knocked him for 6 recently.

 

They're all built like long distance runners these days mate.

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10 minutes ago, spudski said:

He was walking very gingerly mate...I'd be surprised if he were back in that time tbh.

Can't believe how small framed he is and boyish looks of a 12 year old. They all look so much bigger on the pitch. Thought he was a kid at first...it was only his Club tracksuit that made me look twice.

Hegeler on the other hand, looked like he was dressed for Syberia....full on Club jacket, mahoosive scarf and hood up chivering :laugh:

Was also surprised how small the League Cup is in real life. Always thought it to be bigger.

I thought Sane looked almost painfully thin, but he still has the strength to compete, he must be almost solid muscle and bone.

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Would like that - sometimes Johnson likes to keep it under wraps to make it harder for the opposition though.

I wondered that to but I can't see what difference it would make to the opposition if they knew who was training again.

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1 minute ago, spudski said:

They're all built like long distance runners these days mate.

Even Flint isn't exactly bulky, he's an ectomorph really with long limbs and body. 

I don't think pure weight training is encouraged for players really, seems to be more about functional strength, explosiveness and endurance.

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19 minutes ago, spudski said:

He was walking very gingerly mate...I'd be surprised if he were back in that time tbh.

Can't believe how small framed he is and boyish looks of a 12 year old. They all look so much bigger on the pitch. Thought he was a kid at first...it was only his Club tracksuit that made me look twice.

Hegeler on the other hand, looked like he was dressed for Syberia....full on Club jacket, mahoosive scarf and hood up chivering :laugh:

Was also surprised how small the League Cup is in real life. Always thought it to be bigger.

Ta. Hence why we signed Walsh and have loaned Kent. At least we now have cover. A real shame about O'Dowda's injury. 

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Also noticed on a couple of occasions, instead of letting the ball go out for a goal kick they kept the ball live and encouraged us to press. That's when De Bruyne seemed to find space to attack. Was great to see but also a great lesson for our boys to play in a game like that

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13 minutes ago, REDLEE said:

Also noticed on a couple of occasions, instead of letting the ball go out for a goal kick they kept the ball live and encouraged us to press. That's when De Bruyne seemed to find space to attack. Was great to see but also a great lesson for our boys to play in a game like that

 It is not to encourage a press, it makes little logical sense to let the ball out play. Keeping the ball alive is more likely to retain possession v a contested  - Throw in /goal kick. Statically it is a fact. 

Bristol City last night lost possession of the ball from the majority of goal kicks. On occasions it was unnecessary to let the ball out of play. Effectively possession is then conceded by that earlier choice.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 It is not to encourage a press, it makes little logical sense to let the ball out play. Keeping the ball alive is more likely to retain possession v a contested  - Throw in /goal kick. Statically it is a fact. 

Bristol City last night lost possession of the ball from the majority of goal kicks. On occasions it was unnecessary to let the ball out of play. Effectively possession is then conceded by that earlier choice.

 

 

 

On one occasion it would have been better to kick it out. :(

What you’re saying makes perfect sense though. 

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Pace and technical ability.

Man City always seem to have a get out ball when under pressure.the man receiving (most often De Bruyne) has instant control and support en masse and at pace.

 

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