Today’s tactics - absolutely shite.

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It is similar to last season because  Mr Johnson has stared tinkering again. Moving from success to failure due to over complication and change.

The team now has lumps up front instead of mobility. Tomlin was  a lump with a better touch. Fielding kicks long/sideways (off the pitch) to the lump/lumps, the team play long to the lump/lumps, set plays go to lumps, the team have to rum more because of the lumps ... Tactically the identity is now defined by what is up top. That is the Manger fault.

I think Famara is a good player...but does lack a decent first touch. Jury out on Diony...must be bloody amazing in training :laugh:. Hope he comes good. Kent...I don't see how he fits. Other changes have been down to things you really can't control often. Kent spoke about how to team had tried different methods of breaking teams down in training. As before our bad run, even fans could see teams were starting to work us out and calling for a plan b. It's not clicking yet, or maybe never. Hopefully we can get back to doing what we do best soon.

[Olé]

12 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think Famara is a good player...but does lack a decent first touch. 

Yesterday notwithstanding, I don't think Famara's touch is consistently as bad as is sometimes implied.

Yes he has some shockers but also does some very tidy things to initiate attacks, which start from his own control.

You're never going to have a big unit having a fantastic touch and quick feet, but he is more than effective at times.

For me the big difference is when he's got (or creates) time and space to take a second touch, then he is excellent.

Like Fulham, he gets that time if he has busy players like Bobby around him, preventing defenders over-committing.

Yesterday he had no chance, there was no one around him so centre halves could go all in to win the ball from him.

If he gets a second or third touch you can see he knows exactly what is needed from him, and that's half the battle!

[Dullmoan Tone]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

In the context of the season I don't think LJ has much to answer for, but on this one, he's being a little bit disingenuous.

Perhaps players didn't play the way he expected them to, but I'm not sure it's fair to identify the change as in their mind.

How about selecting both Diony and Diedhiou up front - two players who could not create space and retain possession.

That removed the focus for the football our players are comfortable with, because there was no one to pass the ball to.

Pass to either of them direct and it's hacked away from them. So the players hoofed over the top, hoping for mistakes.

 

The feature of our passing football has been the pace, movement and short exchanges, led by Bobby Reid dropping in.

To get away from big defenders you need the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't routine - i.e. supreme control with the ball.

Our best exponent of that was stuck in midfield where he and Korey both looked competent but were largely bypassed.

By launching over midfield Cardiff is skilled at making your lot drop back and opening up big gaps between our players.

Yesterday we rarely had a chance to play a pass under 15 yards as that was the minimum distance up to our front two.

 

Bobby is many things but we don't often ask him to spray 30 yard balls - our best player for that is Pack and he was out.

And Brownhill really got lost in the game yesterday as there was too much ground to cover to be useful in both phases.

So the mindset / not my instructions thing is a surprising diversion from Lee when his selection gamble caused this all.

If all Famara has to do is knock the ball down to Reid and move into space for a quick return, we're far more dangerous.

Instead we're left with Diedhiou totally exposed up front to do it all (Diony lacking confidence or speed* to do any of it).

 

*I'm hoping Diony is going through his Pisano "it's all so incredibly fast" evolution to the Championship, but I'm not even seeing the basic attributes yet.

Agree with this and Robo earlier in the chain, I think we forget how important Pato has been at linking up play and making the passes that underpin our quick movement, I think it's no surprise our form has dropped in line with his - whether caused by fitness or selection. 

I worry our contractual obligations to play Kent mean we will see too little of Pato and he is pivotal.

[jayjay]

Please can we have more "reactions" than the current 10. When, like today, there are hundreds of posts, it is ludicrous to be restricted to a mere 10. I used my quota hours ago and it is obvious from the current lack of "reactions" appearing, that others also run out. Why have any restriction anyway? 

[1bristolcity]

15 hours ago, MRSATAN said:

what a stupid statement

I think you probably missed the irony Satan,

 

Wow! this place is weird.

[lager loud]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

In the context of the season I don't think LJ has much to answer for, but on this one, he's being a little bit disingenuous.

Perhaps players didn't play the way he expected them to, but I'm not sure it's fair to identify the change as in their mind.

How about selecting both Diony and Diedhiou up front - two players who could not create space and retain possession.

That removed the focus for the football our players are comfortable with, because there was no one to pass the ball to.

"Disingenuous" is spot on IMO.

Add to this a back four of Wright, Flint, Baker and Magnússon, none of whom are great ballplayers, and we were effectively expecting the midfield four to do pretty much all the "good stuff". Which is (obviously, I think) going to be very, very difficult against a competent team that uses the middle third less than most.

At least LJ wasn't criticising individuals in public yesterday, but surely his selection made it more difficult for the team to play the way he apparently wanted them to.

[Frenchay Red]

29 minutes ago, jayjay said:

Please can we have more "reactions" than the current 10. When, like today, there are hundreds of posts, it is ludicrous to be restricted to a mere 10. I used my quota hours ago and it is obvious from the current lack of "reactions" appearing, that others also run out. Why have any restriction anyway? 

Not for me to tell you how you spend your dosh, but £5 a year as an OTIB supporter gets you unlimited "reactions" I believe.

[Frenchay Red]

LJ can spin it anyway he likes, but what did he expect. He played two big forwards, who won hardly anything in the air, failed to control the ball when it came to them, couldn't hold it up long enough to bring others into play and for most of the time were unable to find space. They virtually got in the way of us building our usual attacks. Add to that the error of playing our top striker in midfield which meant we had no decent forward player to receive a pass from midfield, when the ball occasionally came down out of the atmosphere. It was a shocking game, especially compared to the cracking game against Fulham just a few days earlier.

Oh, and it was bloody freezing as well!

[lenred]

47 minutes ago, jayjay said:

Please can we have more "reactions" than the current 10. When, like today, there are hundreds of posts, it is ludicrous to be restricted to a mere 10. I used my quota hours ago and it is obvious from the current lack of "reactions" appearing, that others also run out. Why have any restriction anyway? 

I agree, have yourself a virtual like as I've run out. Likewise @Olé and @spudski

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I think Famara is a good player...but does lack a decent first touch. Jury out on Diony...must be bloody amazing in training :laugh:. Hope he comes good. Kent...I don't see how he fits. Other changes have been down to things you really can't control often. Kent spoke about how to team had tried different methods of breaking teams down in training. As before our bad run, even fans could see teams were starting to work us out and calling for a plan b. It's not clicking yet, or maybe never. Hopefully we can get back to doing what we do best soon.

I thought teams sitting in was not working BCFC out, it was respect and fear as a consequence of City's football. Patience, acceptance that not every game  will go as you want it should have been part of that identity. 

The alternative should have been patience, subtle change, looking at positions and attempting to move the ball more fluidly v not moving fluidly at all, by passing midfield and smacking it up top. 

What you are highlighting is a total refocus via three players in how the team plays offensively. Its not a small change. Its total change. A short termist and regressive one.

[RedRock]

My greatest fear is that the spine of the team remains that which Cotts brought up from League One. These are the players I trust   and, it appears, the ones LJ trusts. 

Fielding, Flint, Bryan, Baker, Pack, Smith, they’ve all adjusted to top end Championship. The likes of Ayling, Cunningham who moved on, have also adjusted, so LJ can’t necessarily take the credit for all the improvement in the spine. 

So come on MA and your team start delivering some more core players rather than aimless punts. Always distrusted the ones for tomorrow purchases, but bleeding hell by now some must be ready to step up on the law of averages, so come on Tins where’s our oven ready academy products? 

[Jin]

If LJ thought we could play Cardiff's gameplan but better, then why don't we always play that way and be the team in second place? We should've stuck to the way we normally play with Reid up top, he is our top goalscorer after all.

[spudski]

39 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I thought teams sitting in was not working BCFC out, it was respect and fear as a consequence of City's football. Patience, acceptance that not every game  will go as you want it should have been part of that identity. 

The alternative should have been patience, subtle change, looking at positions and attempting to move the ball more fluidly v not moving fluidly at all, by passing midfield and smacking it up top. 

What you are highlighting is a total refocus via three players in how the team plays offensively. Its not a small change. Its total change. A short termist and regressive one.

Maybe LJ wants to play how we have done in the past, and put too much faith in the new signings and returnee to do what's expected.

Who knows...we don't know the facts, who's tired, carrying knocks etc

I don't think LJ has tried anything hugely tactically different...However...I do think certain players have strayed from what is being asked though. Plus others not doing as being requested.

Not knowing all the facts, we can only speculate.

I also believe LJ has made a few errors of judgement in recent games...some tactically but more so having faith in certain players to do the job as asked.

I'm still very happy with our progress this season, just disappointed recently, but as a whole we've done remarkably well this season and still in with a fighting chance of making the play offs.

[Major Isewater]

16 hours ago, Vil1 said:

Joke french idiots who cant hold a ball up let alone control it .fuk1n joke there both sh1te .we r punching massivley above r weight apart from korey the team is average at best .stop dreamin and face facts .diony fukoff johnson pile of shit 9 mill my ass by proven english players not this utter crap french shite and ye that includes deidou hes shite too .ur all foolin urselves if you fink there decent they aint.to many city fans actually fink wer gud wel we aint no wer close .

Any one hazard a guess as to what our chimp friend is trying to communicate ?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

13 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Why's that funny? 

It's an ironic hahahahahaha.  Because the guy has funded the club through thick and thin and funded a new ground.  He does nothing but spend money.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Any one hazard a guess as to what our chimp friend is trying to communicate ?

Fuk1n no idea.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Yesterday notwithstanding, I don't think Famara's touch is consistently as bad as is sometimes implied.

Yes he has some shockers but also does some very tidy things to initiate attacks, which start from his own control.

You're never going to have a big unit having a fantastic touch and quick feet, but he is more than effective at times.

For me the big difference is when he's got (or creates) time and space to take a second touch, then he is excellent.

Like Fulham, he gets that time if he has busy players like Bobby around him, preventing defenders over-committing.

Yesterday he had no chance, there was no one around him so centre halves could go all in to win the ball from him.

If he gets a second or third touch you can see he knows exactly what is needed from him, and that's half the battle!

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&ved=0ahUKEwjuyq-rz8PZAhUlLcAKHcJaAeQQwqsBCCAwCA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYOv2cUv4gcU&usg=AOvVaw14Wx1PabVyXv7tvMiHwIwQ 

Fammy and friend gets down on the dance floor .

[Mr Popodopolous]

I was out of Bristol, but when I saw the team major alarm bells started to ring:

• Diony up front- his first start and pairing him with Fammy, in a game of this magnitude and importance.
• Reid in midfield? Pack may have been banned but why no Walsh? Moreover, Reid is best by far up front.
• Why no Paterson?

I get injuries and suspensions but it just seemed all wrong and set the tone. I had a theory when pondering it which was that maybe the plan was to keep it tight then try to break the game open with Paterson behind Reid and Fammy for example, with maybe Bryan at LB and Walsh, Brownhill and Smith in a midfield 3 but sadly that was misplaced. The subs were made too late also.

[Major Isewater]

15 hours ago, Vil1 said:

Fukin hate losin maybe you dont .ye im touchy bigtime

Let's here it for the EastVille 1 .

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

At the end of the day, some of our players aren't quite good enough. They have the odd game where they do ok, but generally they can't deliver quality final balls, they struggle with the short passing game, their positioning is out, they are not strong enough in the tackle, they get booked needlessly. 

The reality is that we have a few liabilities and this league is relentless and unforgiving.

We also lack the quality in depth which has been worsened by injuries.

We may or may not make the playoffs this season, but a lot of it is down to mistakes and lack of real quality, not necessarily the quality of the opposition.

On the nail, Cheese...

[Cowshed]

46 minutes ago, spudski said:

Maybe LJ wants to play how we have done in the past, and put too much faith in the new signings and returnee to do what's expected.

Who knows...we don't know the facts, who's tired, carrying knocks etc

I don't think LJ has tried anything hugely tactically different...However...I do think certain players have strayed from what is being asked though. Plus others not doing as being requested.

Not knowing all the facts, we can only speculate.

I also believe LJ has made a few errors of judgement in recent games...some tactically but more so having faith in certain players to do the job as asked.

I'm still very happy with our progress this season, just disappointed recently, but as a whole we've done remarkably well this season and still in with a fighting chance of making the play offs.

Come on you are enough to know what is being done is very very different now.

The three players you highlight means the team HAS to play differently v its former. You have said similar. I will say the three players are incapable of playing how BCFC did in November/December. Incapable.100%.  

There is much made of Bristol City's press you will know that the way Bristol City pass the ball affects the way they press when its lost. Six seconds frenzies has turned into a six second run to screen not press lost possession from the punts ...

Fieldings distribution has changed. To weird and odd. And utterly wasteful. 

The way the team plays through the thirds has changed.

The emphasis on retaining the football and playing simple quick and early to feet has ceased.

These are not tweaks. This is major change instigated by Lee Johnson. Players as a team do not go out and reinvent the way they play.

 

 

[jayjay]

3 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

Not for me to tell you how you spend your dosh, but £5 a year as an OTIB supporter gets you unlimited "reactions" I believe.

Many thanks Frenchay Red. I was unaware of this exalted status and have now "paypalled" a fiver and am now proud to be an OTIB Supporter.

[Vil1]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Let's here it for the EastVille 1 .

Dik i live in ashton 1 minute from the ground actually

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Come on you are enough to know what is being done is very very different now.

The three players you highlight means the team HAS to play differently v its former. You have said similar. I will say the three players are incapable of playing how BCFC did in November/December. Incapable.100%.  

There is much made of Bristol City's press you will know that the way Bristol City pass the ball affects the way they press when its lost. Six seconds frenzies has turned into a six second run to screen not press lost possession from the punts ...

Fieldings distribution has changed. To weird and odd. And utterly wasteful. 

The way the team plays through the thirds has changed.

The emphasis on retaining the football and playing simple quick and early to feet has ceased.

These are not tweaks. This is major change instigated by Lee Johnson. Players as a team do not go out and reinvent the way they play.

 

 

I agree with what you say, we have changed we have played at different games. Also depending on who we are playing against and who is in the team. We've mixed it up a little. We still press in parts of the game...and we also screen more. Maybe that's down to fatigue and players carrying knocks, bringing in new, loss of form etc.

We haven't pressed as much as we used to...there has to be a reason for it. You don't change something that's successful, unless something has been noticed and we can't carry it out so well.

I agree about Fielding distribution...it is odd.

Anything instigated by LJ, as you know will have been done for a reason.

You don't change a winning formula, unless you have to.

[Red Army 75]

The one thing I couldn’t understand. Was breaking up BR and FD partnership. Thought they were starting to look good. Bobby Reid is absolutely wasted in midfield 

[Red Army 75]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree with what you say, we have changed we have played at different games. Also depending on who we are playing against and who is in the team. We've mixed it up a little. We still press in parts of the game...and we also screen more. Maybe that's down to fatigue and players carrying knocks, bringing in new, loss of form etc.

We haven't pressed as much as we used to...there has to be a reason for it. You don't change something that's successful, unless something has been noticed and we can't carry it out so well.

I agree about Fielding distribution...it is odd.

Anything instigated by LJ, as you know will have been done for a reason.

You don't change a winning formula, unless you have to.

What is up with his kicking. It is really poor. Rate FF but kicking of late really poor. Professional keeper should be able to keep it in play 

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, jayjay said:

Many thanks Frenchay Red. I was unaware of this exalted status and have now "paypalled" a fiver and am now proud to be an OTIB Supporter.

Excellent!

[Offside]

9 hours ago, spudski said:

I agree...it's not just been against Cardiff, but in recent games as well.

Personally I think the introduction of Kent, Diony and coming back from injury Famara, has unsettled us a little. It has effected the trust some players have in playing with them, as they are more likely to make mistakes and get you in trouble. Hence playing more direct and getting the ball away from you.

I think you're rIght about the new players and return of Diedhiou unsettling us. 

It was a bizarre decision by LJ to start Diony against Cardiff. He's not done enough in games yet to warrant a starting position, particularly with Reid having to drop back. An example of the balance of the side being tweaked in a detrimental way.

[cheshire_red]

He didn’t pick a team capable of a fast passing game so why was he surprised they didn’t/ couldn’t play it?

[RedRock]

34 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

He didn’t pick a team capable of a fast passing game so why was he surprised they didn’t/ couldn’t play it?

Totally bemused at that comment as well. Pick two lumps up front, who hardly know each other with one massively out of form and expect them to play an intricate, fast passing game. Eh? 

A symptom of over-thinking things I fear. Concentrating on the detail and losing sight of the bigger picture.

LJ must start living up to his pledge of learning from his mistakes. Still massively in credit with me but alarming signs of repeat mistakes happening viz transfers, tactics, team selections.