SC&T/FAN/Supporters meeting

[CyderInACan]

3 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

Anyone who was sat near me last night would have heard me uttering several swear words when he made the comment that “there are cheaper tickets in the ground if you move” he’s got a finance head on, and just doesn’t seem to get it’s not a case of “oh ok then, I’ll just move somewhere cheaper” it's the family you build up around you, the seats people have sat in for ages, with the same group of people etc.

Mark Ashton also made the comment that “he’s a football fan” er he might be, but when's the last time he had to pay for a season ticket? Or scrabble around to find the pennies to pay for one in a few weeks? People simply just don’t have hundreds of pounds sat lying around that they can put their hands on in a few weeks! 

It was when he looked all confused that the proposed 4th week to renew would encompass another payday that I lost any remaining shred of respect for him; he just doesn't understand the pressure on REAL budgets that people have to live with. He can willingly spend oodles of Brewster's Millions but in the real world a season ticket costs an awful lot of money for people who have supported this club through thick, thin & thinner. I doubt he anxiously waits for payday every month. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

All very valid, important points, especially number 5.

Seriously though, I'm well up for this. In my view BMF are perfect for this. Local to a lot of people who are presumably priced out, very family oriented club, much cheaper, as well as making more of a difference to local community.

Honestly, I'd also be really interested in having somewhere to create a proper atmosphere again.

I'm well up for it if theres a group of people also willing. 

Logistically BMF is perfect, bar it lacks stands with roofs. They have a few but obviously a group of City fans dislodging the regulars is hypocritical and selfish. Brislington is the other obvious option which is not as central but is just off the ring road. 

Mostly covered 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Gotta say I hate how corporate and that the club is becoming. Very impressed at the supporters on here (how representative it is, I don't know), and the solidarity being shown about it on here. A dedicated S82 leader like @Harry contemplating not renewing should ring big alarm bells for the club...

A decent part of my matchday experience is to get away from corporate ******* such as these, some of whom seem to be quite high up in the club...enough of them in the day job.

[Guest]

I presume that SL has rubber stamped these changes as he does with transfer decisions,  I would welcome a statement directly from him as the owner of the club explaining his acceptance of these changes which clearly victimise the young, the old and the disabled.

[CotswoldRed]

3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

He was close to losing his rag a few times - quite aggressive when people don't simply acquiesce.

Probably far too used to people agreeing with him. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Just now, Countryfile said:

I presume that SL has rubber stamped these changes as he does with transfer decisions,  I would welcome a statement directly from him as the owner of the club explaining his acceptance of these changes which clearly victimise the young, the old and the disabled.

It was made very clear last night that the Lansdowns are in no way to blame for anything and are amazing and perfect in every way and don't you are criticise them as without them the club would be terrible.

Can you tell I'm being sarcastic

[CyderInACan]

3 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I presume that SL has rubber stamped these changes as he does with transfer decisions,  I would welcome a statement directly from him as the owner of the club explaining his acceptance of these changes which clearly victimise the young, the old and the disabled.

It's nuts isn't it - how could they all sit down and agree the increases without and some point thinking -"is this all a bit, you know, unfair?"

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Logistically BMF is perfect, bar it lacks stands with roofs. They have a few but obviously a group of City fans dislodging the regulars is hypocritical and selfish. Brislington is the other obvious option which is not as central but is just off the ring road. 

Mostly covered 

That's the issue, you'd have to be respectful to those that have been fans of the club while we were swanning around in the Championship.

Brislington is a good shout mind. I'll let the idea float for a little bit but it'd be great to get a group of ousted City fans supporting grassroots, non league football, wherever that may be.

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, CyderInACan said:

It's nuts isn't it - how could they all sit down and agree the increases without and some point thinking -"is this all a bit, you know, unfair?"

Because they're terribly out of touch and none of them have ever stood on the terraces at any point in their lives?

[Kid in the Riot]

13 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I’m not sure that 0.5% of season ticket holders (people who can make it to Ashton gate on a regular basis) turning up, will really make them react too dramatically. 

Very poor turn out, considering the uproar on here. Imo. 

 

13 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

You and about 15,925 others. 

Thats not a dig. I couldn’t make it either. But with the supposed reaction on here, I had expected hundreds there to fight their corner. 

The club, I would think, will simply think that it’s really not that big an issue.

They’ve done their bit in providing senior executives for a short notice, open meeting that was demanded by supporters, yet the turnout suggests (rightly or wrongly) it’s just a vocal minority and I would be amazed if any further amendments were made to any policies off the back of it. 

Why do you near enough constantly talk-down our fan base? It's evidently not 'just a vocal minority' as can be seen on all forms of social media and speaking from experience of attending meetings with the club midweek, 75 is a great turnout.

From ticket prices, to treatment of supporters, to fans' attitude to results/performances, you always seem to side with the club and are quick to pour scorn on fellow City supporters. Very sad that you feel you need to work against a group of supporters actually trying to achieve something positive. I just don't get it.

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

It's nuts isn't it - how could they all sit down and agree the increases without and some point thinking -"is this all a bit, you know, unfair?"

I think this probably goes deeper.

Clearly the feedback from last season's renewal process was ignored, or it was acknowledged and whilst drinking port and enjoying a dodo and swan sandwich, the suits hit upon a scheme where they would try and make the experience worse this season.

The suits have turned in to the 'Dukes' to our collective Billy Ray Valentine.

[LC_]

From a club where the Vice Chairman thought it funny to post that picture to his Twitter after the Cardiff flag incident,  shows the fans and club hierarchy are not on the same page

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Why do you near enough constantly talk-down our fan base? It's evidently not 'just a vocal minority' as can be seen on all forms of social media and speaking from experience of attending meetings with the club midweek, 75 is a great turnout.

From ticket prices, to treatment of supporters, to fans' attitude to results/performances, you always seem to side with the club and are quick to pour scorn on fellow City supporters. Very sad that you feel you need to work against a group of supporters actually trying to achieve something positive. I just don't get it.

Spot on. 

I'm livid with the club. 

Could I get to the AG last night? No - the nipper is in hospital so the likes of MA don't currently deserve my time. 

Its still a big deal to me. 

Do I want to renew? No. Will I? Eventually I guess I will as disabled places aren't easy to come by otherwise. 

Will I spend a penny in the shop or concessions areas next season?  Like hell will I. So the club lose out and so do I. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Why do you near enough constantly talk-down our fan base? It's evidently not 'just a vocal minority' as can be seen on all forms of social media and speaking from experience of attending meetings with the club midweek, 75 is a great turnout.

From ticket prices, to treatment of supporters, to fans' attitude to results/performances, you always seem to side with the club and are quick to pour scorn on fellow City supporters. Very sad that you feel you need to work against a group of supporters actually trying to achieve something positive. I just don't get it.

Genuinely great post that I must say!

I was pondering posting something similar last night about the  thread titled 'Spineless, Gutless and Pathetic'.

The poster is a fans rep...but said poster seems quite happy to go with or rather close to the club line pretty frequently IMO. It COULD be that those views represent the silent majority, there's no real way of saying for sure, but the stance seems to be just a little bit slanted.

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Why do you near enough constantly talk-down our fan base? It's evidently not 'just a vocal minority' as can be seen on all forms of social media and speaking from experience of attending meetings with the club midweek, 75 is a great turnout.

From ticket prices, to treatment of supporters, to fans' attitude to results/performances, you always seem to side with the club and are quick to pour scorn on fellow City supporters. Very sad that you feel you need to work against a group of supporters actually trying to achieve something positive. I just don't get it.

I don’t think I do, I just tend not to side with those who don’t also take the club’s side of things into account. 

I actually said that with a turn out of 75, from 15,000+ it could appear to the club as a vocal minority. 

I’ve said to club officials on numerous occasions that it’s vital they understand, value & appreciate supporters, who are the lifeblood of any football club. 

A lot of what’s on this forum is banter & playing devils advocate. I will always back true supporters, but also believe in the club thriving and understand that it’s a 2 way street. Some are unlrealistic in what they want to put in, yet demand improved result aswell. 

You cant please all of the people, all of the time, but I try to be realistic in being a supporter but also wanting the best for the club. 

[CotswoldRed]

I forgot to ask... 

Who won bu11sh1t bingo last night? 

[Septic Peg]

2 hours ago, phantom said:

Blimey, had forgotten all about her - What does she do now?

Something to do with her mouth I'm told... 

 

 

My two penneth. I'm not a ST holder because of a few factors. Cost is one but not the main one. I could probably get a ST if the other factors didn't matter. But I certainly couldn't get one for my lad alongside me with such a price increase.

Perhaps my views do not matter and at the end of the day, they have to make money as it's a business but I fail to see how they are supporting their future fan base. My lad loves the singing and shouting so we would want to be in the SS and not up in the Gods. That's best part of £500 or £50 per month. That's a lot. 

Notts Forest (same div as us) are doing kids STs for £10 under 12s, 50, under 18s and £100 for young adult.

That's incredible pricing I think.

[cidered abroad]

4 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Something to do with her mouth I'm told... 

 

 

My two penneth. I'm not a ST holder because of a few factors. Cost is one but not the main one. I could probably get a ST if the other factors didn't matter. But I certainly couldn't get one for my lad alongside me with such a price increase.

Perhaps my views do not matter and at the end of the day, they have to make money as it's a business but I fail to see how they are supporting their future fan base. My lad loves the singing and shouting so we would want to be in the SS and not up in the Gods. That's best part of £500 or £50 per month. That's a lot. 

Notts Forest (same div as us) are doing kids STs for £10 under 12s, 50, under 18s and £100 for young adult.

That's incredible pricing I think.

Yes, they are good prices for young people. And if I was a betting man, I'd put money on Forest reaching the Prem before City. We've had our moment of glory in the first half of the season and look at us now. Couldn't win a raffle if we had the only ticket?

[redordead1]

Hi All,

I've held off writing this because I came away from the meeting last night dissapointed and angry. Hopefully sleeping on it will allow for a more reasoned summary.

The meeting started with Ashton attempting to (rather clumbsily) define the structure of the Bristol Sport, Ashton Gate and BCFC businesses in what appeared to be an effort to deflect the responsibility of the pricing decsions away from himself and BCFC, and on to the Bristol Sport business which is headed up by Jon Lansdown. As others have mentioned above, he then appeared to realise the ramifications of mentioning Jon Lansdown by name and spent the next 5 minutes trying to backtrack and explain that all decisions were of course voted in and passed by the board of BCFC too, a board which Jon Lansdown is also a member of.

It wasn't clear who specifically created the new pricing, but it is clear that both Steve and Jon Lansdown as well as all board members effectively signed off on the new pricing strategy.

Ashton then stated that a "huge amount of benchmarking and consultation" had been done before the pricing has been released and labelled our existing ST prices as "cheap" a number of times and that we are a loss making company and lucky to have Steve Lansdown funding it all. As others have said, he completely failed to understand or show any appreciation that the majority of the room had contributed a far larger respective percentage of their individual wealth for decades more than the current owners and management team. His comical overuse of the word consultation, combined with Dolly highlighting the fact that there had been no real consultation with any supporters group just emphasised how hollow this statement was. He finished this opening by stating how they "need to get better" and "learn lessons" moving forward, failing to realise that the evening was an ideal opportunity to do precisely this and make positive changes as a direct result of listening to what the supporters had to say. It was clear from this point on that this was an exercise in trying to explain away the changes and that no ground would be given.

Gavin Marshall, a CFO with a distinct lack of understanding of what it means to be a football supporter, then laid out in pedestrain terms the new price points. They stated that the disabled concessions were changed because they are effectvely viewing everyone by age now and not social circumstance. Doug Harman then showed the slightest glimpse of empathy (the only example the whole night) by stating that he understood how difficult the rises must be for disabled supporters. When somebody mentioned that there are only 500 or so disabled supporters this would affect, I could have sworn that both Harman and Ashton's eyes lit up. I would not be at all surprised if they view this as an opportunity to make a minor change and one that they can promote and use as PR to show they've "listened to the fans" across the media. 

As Dolly mentions above, Marshall then showed either a complete lack of understanding/contempt for families who don't wish to be financially/socially engineered or moved into the family section. Having admitted that they made an error with the Under 12's in the Lansdown (would this have happended if they had consulted in the first place?) the "enhanced family experience" line was again used repeatedly, with no explanation of what this entails, or why families would want to move away from being sat amongst friends, families that they've spent decades forming close bonds with.

It was difficult to show restraint when Marshall reponded to a few of us explaining what it really meant to be a City fan and the importance of this shared matchday experience with "well you can always move" and Ashton followed up with, football fans always feel like they've got a god-given right to their seat and their part of the ground . If any part of the evening gave a glimpse in to the sheer disregard for the most loyal City fans and the complete lack of empathy, or as others have said, simple appreciation that this is "all a bit unfair" it was this. There is zero respect for those of us who have supported the club up until now, we are simply being viewed as customers. The loyalty programme is clearly a phone app, ST card/BCFC "wallet" designed to reward you with offers based on how much you spend on pies, pasties and pints. Again, this shows such a cynical disregard to how we all feel loyalty should be viewed and rewarded.

The only other concession they made was to look at extending the renewal period for a week to allow people to benefit from two pay checks. "What? Is that pay day is it?" -  Ashton 

Hopefully, this provides a fair summary. I do not for one moment believe I'm speaking on anyone else's behalf. So, for anyone else who was in attendence, please feel free to correct me if I've got anything wrong.

In summary, my lasting impression is that not once did Ashton or any of the others actually ask a supporter how they felt about any of the changes. I cannot imagine any other business (and that's how they class themselves) showing such an amazing lack of respect towards it's most loyal supporters. I want to steer clear of any personal stuff, but I do want to point out that at times the tone, agression and sheer rudeness shown towards fans was completely unacceptable. Pointing a bottle at someone when they have the temerity to ask you a queston is just not on and really unprofessional.

It's clear we are at a watershed in this club's history as to how they view and treat us. Fair play to those at FAN and SC&T for their earlier statement, we really need to show some solidarity and get the message out on this before we lose a large number of very loyal supporters. #fansnotcustomers

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I’m not sure that 0.5% of season ticket holders (people who can make it to Ashton gate on a regular basis) turning up, will really make them react too dramatically. 

Very poor turn out, considering the uproar on here. Imo. 

I don't think it matters. SC&T and FAN are umbrella organisations- the other 99.5% are attending because they are being represented by those groups. 

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, 29AR said:

I don't think it matters. SC&T and FAN are umbrella organisations- the other 99.5% are attending because they are being represented by those groups. 

That’s a fair point. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

A serious question, which in fairness, I’ve onlt thought of just now... was the content of the meeting all based around telling the club that price rises were to much and time Windows too short, or did anyone ask the club to explain the financial impact that these new prices might have for the football club (based on like for like numbers) 

For instance... my Dolman ticket has gone up about £30 I think. That’s fine. 

My son’s has gone up from £50 to £99. A steep percentage rise, but still very good value, so I will be renewing both, but have waited until after this meeting, as requested. 

Now, had the club sat down, explained their position and plans and demonstrated that last years ST revenue was £XYZ and like for like sales would now see this rise to around £XYZ, which would give us an extra £XYZ to invest in the first team squad budget during the summer transfer window, maybe, just maybe, people could understand and justify paying the new rates, for the good of the team that we all support...?!

Not too taxing to have a decent stab at

Appreciate the rises vary in amount and number effected but If every season ticket went up by £50 that’s approx £800k

Not a great amount in the scheme of things I’d suggest 

Less than half an Engvall fee or  a tenth of Diony !

[ESSEX ROBIN]

I am a season ticket holder from southend in Essex I feel its so wrong how the young fans and friends that have sat together are being treated so shabbily if this is how they treat the fans now can you imagine how insignificant us small band of voices will be if we ever make the premier lge.they wont want the likes of us little people; in there stadium then.

The only time we were needed was when we were in lower divisions playing crawley Stevenage etc its a sad indictment of football nowdays and looks like its reached my club im also considering not renewing also now through all this its not right or fair to treat honest people this way,i think id rather keep my money in my pocket rather than fill the prawn sandwich brigades pockets

 

[CyderInACan]

I'm assuming that @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO is keeping tabs on this thread to provide further feedback to the decision makers? 

[Drew Peacock]

2 hours ago, Drew Peacock said:

What was the reason for the higher OAP prices?

And how is it non discriminotory? 

Anyone?

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, redordead1 said:

The meeting started with Ashton attempting to (rather clumbsily) define the structure of the Bristol Sport, Ashton Gate and BCFC businesses in what appeared to be an effort to deflect the responsibility of the pricing decsions away from himself and BCFC, and on to the Bristol Sport business which is headed up by Jon Lansdown. As others have mentioned above, he then appeared to realise the ramifications of mentioning Jon Lansdown by name and spent the next 5 minutes trying to backtrack and explain that all decisions were of course voted in and passed by the board of BCFC too, a board which Jon Lansdown is also a member of.

It wasn't clear who specifically created the new pricing, but it is clear that both Steve and Jon Lansdown as well as all board members effectively signed off on the new pricing strategy.

A point that should be remembered by some of our fans next time they start crowing about how 'lucky' we are to have Bristolian owners who are 'true supporters' of the club. No true supporter I know would cynically try to socially engineer where vulnerable groups of supporters should sit in the ground by pricing them out/completely excluding them from certain areas.

[Nogbad the Bad]

With this inexcusable ST debacle, stories of OTT and intimidating policing in the ground, and the determination to constantly decrease match day parking spaces there really does seem to be a concerted effort from several quarters to put fans off attending AG.

A triple whammy seemingly designed to make the fans experience of visiting AG more expensive, more frustrating and less enjoyable

No one at the club should be surprised if many fans vote with their feet and find something more pleasant to do.

 

[BTRFTG]

15 hours ago, Blagdon red said:

It was the biggest turn-out in years (if not since the desperate days of 1982) for an open fan meeting with the club on non-playing (or stadium development) matters. That in itself shows the level of feeling, as did the many well argued points put to MA and the others.

Whether it was 75 or 7,500 fans there is actually immaterial, the point was clearly made to the BCFC/BS execs that their pricing structure is hugely unpopular and that many fans (whether personally affected or not) find the percentage increases, short purchase window and particularly tough impact on junior and disabled fans totally unacceptable and an indication of a failure to understand the social aspect of going to football, i.e. a failure to understand the difference between fans and clients.

They reluctantly agreed to look again at disabled pricing (e.g. whether the increase could be staggered over 1 or 2 seasons) and at the length of the purchase window, but they were a long way from promising any movement on either of those... and appeared completely unwilling to consider any review at all of any other prices.

Thanks for this very informative update.

Seems the club assumed that the dangled carrot of success was sufficient to foist whatever they thought they could get away with without impacting sales. Maybe a tad more 'consultation' rather than 'implied consultation' would have been sensible.

Little wonder they're unsure how to respond when tasked?

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

With this inexcusable ST debacle, stories of OTT and intimidating policing in the ground, and the determination to constantly decrease match day parking spaces there really does seem to be a concerted effort from several quarters to put fans off attending AG.

A triple whammy seemingly designed to make the fans experience of visiting AG more expensive, more frustrating and less enjoyable

No one at the club should be surprised if many fans vote with their feet and find something more pleasant to do.

 

I think a conspiracy theory is tempting, is attractive- but I'm not sure I buy it.

• ST Debacle- a club or sections of the club who think in corporate terms, and either forget the fans, or have no experience of being one.
• The policing? A mix of the SAG, plus probably pressure from EFL, FA regarding flares etc. We could have been for the high jump earlier in the season- remember the FA warning about pyro all the way back in August?? That would be the club covering themselves IMO- plus following instructions.
• Parking issues? Again, a complex scenario- a mix of inept local authority and disgruntled, predominantly fairly new residents who care very little for the football club (one I knew who lives in that area, who rather likes rugby, even laughed last season when Bristol Rugby lost- she;s a Bath/Gloucs fan so understandable)! She's just symptomatic of the new types who have moved in round there though. The inept local authority also kicks in around the parking site which seems to be unusable...combined with the weird planning regulations and what was clearly a poor deal by the Council, hence the need for a CPO.

As such, given the differing issues and different bodies, I'm not convinced by the conspiracy theory at this stage.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think a conspiracy theory is tempting, is attractive- but I'm not sure I buy it.

• ST Debacle- a club or sections of the club who think in corporate terms, and either forget the fans, or have no experience of being one.
• The policing? A mix of the SAG, plus probably pressure from EFL, FA regarding flares etc. We could have been for the high jump earlier in the season- remember the FA warning about pyro all the way back in August?? That would be the club covering themselves IMO- plus following instructions.
• Parking issues? Again, a complex scenario- a mix of inept local authority and disgruntled, predominantly fairly new residents who care very little for the football club (one I knew who lives in that area, who rather likes rugby, even laughed last season when Bristol Rugby lost- she;s a Bath/Gloucs fan so understandable)! She's just symptomatic of the new types who have moved in round there though. The inept local authority also kicks in around the parking site which seems to be unusable...combined with the weird planning regulations and what was clearly a poor deal by the Council, hence the need for a CPO.

As such, given the differing issues and different bodies, I'm not convinced by the conspiracy theory at this stage.

They clearly have a preferred customer though - probably more a typical rugby demographic if anything. People that will pay a premium, eat and drink in the ground, won’t cause any bother and will buy plenty of merchandise.