cityfan Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 City have had a brilliant season, but been on a wobble since Wolves, almost relegation form really over the last 10 games, both home and away. http://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2 Cardiff now have a chance to be Champions of the division if they keep this form up. Will Neil Warnock become the most successful promoted manager ever this season? it looks that way. Neil Warnock http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/neil-warnock/ Steve Bruce http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/steve-bruce/ The foreign managers of Wolves and Fulham are not measureable Wolves have the most money, Cardiff have the most successful manager, Aston Villa have a manager who was a very successful player at the highest level and relatively speaking has been a successful manager including at this level. Taking bias and hate (for some) out of the equation, you have to admire Warnock and all that he is achieving. Whether they go up, whether they stay up if they go up, he is doing a brilliant and consistent job. Very reliable, very dependable and steeped in knowledge in the art of management. I'm a City fan since a boy and now in my mid fifties. They doesn't detract from my admiration of Warnock Excellent man manager and obviously admired and respected by those who play for him and action what he requires. For the opposite, look at the Chelsea players; for another season, not doing what they're being asked to do. Too much player power in the game, but not so in a Warnock team. Managers manage or should do and players should play to the best of their ability and to the remit set. It would be no different in a normal workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTBLUE Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 There is absolutely no ART in his style of management,he is completely anti-artisan.I might be alone in thinking this,somehow I doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said: There is absolutely no ART in his style of management,he is completely anti-artisan.I might be alone in thinking this,somehow I doubt it though. I’d say you definitely are because nobody else knows what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTBLUE Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: I’d say you definitely are because nobody else knows what that means. ?.... really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: I’d say you definitely are because nobody else knows what that means. I understand what that means. Still trying to decide if I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, cityfan said: Excellent man manager and obviously admired and respected by those who play for him and action what he requires. For the opposite, look at the Chelsea players; for another season, not doing what they're being asked to do. Too much player power in the game, but not so in a Warnock team. Managers mange or should do and players should play to the best of their ability and to the remit set. It would be no different in a normal workplace. Exactly right. Most great managers have to be benevolent dictators. Look at the Dutch national team, only Rinus Michels has succeeded in delivering silverware, despite the Oranje possessing an ambundance of world class talent at major tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, cityfan said: City have had a brilliant season, but been on a wobble since Wolves, almost relegation form really over the last 10 games, both home and away. http://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2 Cardiff now have a chance to be Champions of the division if they keep this form up. Will Neil Warnock become the most successful promoted manager ever this season? it looks that way. Neil Warnock http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/neil-warnock/ Steve Bruce http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/steve-bruce/ The foreign managers of Wolves and Fulham are not measureable Wolves have the most money, Cardiff have the most successful manager, Aston Villa have a manager who was a very successful player at the highest level and relatively speaking has been a successful manager including at this level. Taking bias and hate (for some) out of the equation, you have to admire Warnock and all that he is achieving. Whether they go up, whether they stay up if they go up, he is doing a brilliant and consistent job. Very reliable, very dependable and steeped in knowledge in the art of management. I'm a City fan since a boy and now in my mid fifties. They doesn't detract from my admiration of Warnock Excellent man manager and obviously admired and respected by those who play for him and action what he requires. For the opposite, look at the Chelsea players; for another season, not doing what they're being asked to do. Too much player power in the game, but not so in a Warnock team. Managers mange or should do and players should play to the best of their ability and to the remit set. It would be no different in a normal workplace. I agree and disagree. What Warnock excels at is getting short-term results. That is important, for sure, and it might well get Cardiff up and - if you have a manager focusing on the short-term and other at the club focusing on developing the club for the long-term - it can be a great strategy. At the same time, it is no coincidence that no club Warnock has managed has successfully built on his impact after he left and a number of clubs have dropped completely. I think Warnock might get Cardiff up this season but I do not think he will keep them up and I think they will find themselves ill-equipped for the top flight having focused all their resources on a short-term target. I reckon within three years they will be struggling at the bottom of the Championship with grave financial problems. Maybe that is a price some would pay for a season or two in the premier league but I don't think that I would, especially as other clubs like Burnley and Swansea have shown there is a more sustainable approach. I think the Chelsea comparison is deeply unfair. For a start, Conte won the title last season, which is substantially more than Warnock has achieved. Secondly, Chelsea have more "player power" because they have much more notable players than Cardiff. I don't think parachuting Warnock into Chelsea would have the same results. Thirdly, I don't think you can accurately see Chelsea's problem as being not doing what they are asked to do. Whatever your questions about the game plan against Barcelona or Man City, the players certainly executed it. They lack quality in depth and have replaced Matic and perhaps Costa with an inferior player but that is not anything to do with player power. I would not want Warnock at Bristol City and genuinely believe, even if we had short-term success, it would leave us a poorer team down the line. Much as he and Gary Johnson dislike each other, I think the result would be similar - a period of qualified success followed by the manager leaving and a realisation we have poor players with short-term worth on long-term contracts and we would be back to where we were in 2011. I really like the fact that Lansdown is now trying to build a club, rather than a briefly successful team with no infrastructure behind it. Yes, there is more of a learning curve with someone like Johnson but I think there is also the potential for much better results in the long-term. That said, I would be interested to see Warnock as England manager. Someone focussed on short-term results and with the nous to win games would be utterly perfect for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampshire Red Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Unbelievable how many people write about this guy who failed as a player to play as many games as modest Lee Johnson, who has failed two interviews with Steve Lansdown and who rightly incites the wrath of tv pundits (if they think Chelsea are a problem for football hear what they really think of Warnock), anyone who likes honest entertaining football and football fans up and down the country. I wont start another thread on the bloke but anyone who saw him manage clubs like Rotherham at Ashton Gate would never pay old ST prices (let alone new ones) to watch that regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Tony Pulis is a great manager too. He wasn't exactly a roaring success at City. Warnock has his thing and he does it very well but it's by no means certain that it would have worked at City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityfan Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 My point about Chelsea was in regards to Eden Hazard this week, his apparent run-in with Conte and Hazard reflecting the views of the dressing room that Chelsea are allegedly asked to play negative football by Conte. I think Warnock is terrific for Chairman chasing the dream. After all, it is a £100 million pay day, even if for just one season and it helps some Chairman, maybe foreign owners, sell their newly acquired brand overseas. So football can materially help their own business interests. Aside of that Palace game, does anyone know why Neil Warnock and Gary Johnson don't get on? Listening to a radio interview the other day, it's obviously shifted to Lee as well. Also, I didn't know Steve Lansdown had interviewed Warnock twice. Can you add some detail to that for me please. I assume it is not a case of disliking Warnock or the assumed potential legacy otherwise he wouldn't have interviewed him for the position for a second time. If Cardiff do go up and then come back down again and not in such a good financial position, is that the responsibility of a manager these days or, a Chairman. Managers invariably manage the team these days and Chairman do manage the finances. So financially, I would say it is the Chairman's responsibility. One final thing on Neil Warnock, where has he ever been where he has had funds to build a club and a legacy? He is usually brought in to save clubs and then the following year, on a shoestring, he usually manages to get some magic out of them and take them to great heights, punching above their weight, ergo, the art of management. Thus, he is not in a position to prepare them for a lengthy period in the Premiership and deliver continuity and growth. The comment about England manager and short-term results is very interesting. Not to dissimilar to big Sam I appreciate my response is combined and to both Hampshire Red and LondonBristolian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Everything @LondonBristolian said. Good management is not one size fits all and it's not so simple as to say there is a right or wrong approach - it depends what a club wants to achieve. Unfortunately too many clubs hire name/personality first before thinking about their specific requirements, just as some businesses veer off strategy. Colin is no more the right answer than Cotts is the wrong answer. It depends what the question is. 5 pillars was a cliche but at least it set out the need. There is no art to management, except perhaps man-management. Everything else is nuanced to resources you have and how they are best employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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