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Davefevs

Yes, The January Transfer Window - The Proven Striker

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Just throwing some stats out there.

Of the proven goalscorer names touted in the window how have they done...some subjectivity too:

Benik Afobe - 25 - joined Wolves on loan from Bournemouth on 31/1

Loan deal rumoured to be £2m, wages possibly too rich for us on top of that loan fee

Starts: 0, Subs: 6, Goals 1, Assists: 0 (W3, D2, L1 although not a huge contribution to that)

Gary Madine - 27 - joined Cardiff from Bolton on 31/1

Transfer fee widely reported as £6m, wages I expect in our structure

Starts: 4, Subs: 0, Goals: 0, Assists: 1 (W3, D1, L0 played his part)

Lewis Grabban - 30 - joined Villa on loan from Bournemouth on 31/1 having been on loan at Sunderlsnd

Loan Deal £unknown, wages rumoured to be £50-60k, although not sure how much Villa are paying - probably out of range

Starts: 2, Subs:3, Goals: 3, Assists: 0 (W3, D1, L1 significant part played)

How much game time would they have got against our two....ignoring Diony who hasn’t done enough to get in this post!

Bobby Reid - 25 - homegrown

No fee and likely low wages 

Starts: 7, Subs: 0, Goals: 5, Assists: 2 (W1, D3, L3)

Famara Diedhiou - 25 - signed from our "French Feeder" club Angers for £5.3m in the summer

Wages likely to be in the top third at our club but not excessive

Starts: 7, Subs: 0, Goals: 4, Assists: 0 (W1, D3, L3)

My view is that the vast majority on this forum wanted a Striker (a proven one at that) and a Right Back as priority.  Walsh was a "ready now" but you’re going to have to fight Smith and Pack.

The return on Diedhiou has seen our front two combine for 9 of our 11 goals (Brownhill and Flint getting the others).  Whereas we have scored throughout the team this season, perhaps since Xmas, it’s been a bit left to our front two.  11 goals in 7 games does not point to a problem up front.  10 conceded in 7 is probably 3 too many going into the run in....and perhaps had we gone and got the RB we needed it maybe different. One clean sheet in 7....Wright had been playing with a niggle for 3/4 games, and Pisano returns.  I’m not saying it would’ve been easy to bring in a RB, and imagine spending £3-4m on one....and then telling Pisano, he’s not gonna start, when he’s been working so hard to get fit and moved his family over lock, stock and barrel to be first choice.  His performances have shown he is quality.

Perhaps Vyner going on loan before we knew the injury return date was the mistake?

Interested in your views.

Was there another ‘proven’ striker I missed (not Chris Martin)?

 

 

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Mitrovic Newcastle > Fulham.

We could've done with another goalscorer of course, even if it was one who could've made an impact from the bench.

But for me the massive omission was a RB, all the more confusing given LJ stated back in October he would likely be looking to the loan market for one. 

I think the full back positions have cost us badly this season. Mags/Wright not good enough. New LB would've meant Bryan could push forward to LM, his best position IMO

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Alexander Mitrovic - 23 - joined Fulham on loan from Newcastle (didn’t realise he was that young!)

Loan fee £unknown, wages £significant but how much are Fulham paying

Starts: 5, Subs: 2, Goals: 5, Assists: 0 (W5, D2, L0 played a very big part)

 

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Mitrovic loan fee was supposedly around £600,000 so not the biggest loan fee. But I expect they're probably paying a healthy chunk of his wages if the loan fee is that small. 

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5 minutes ago, hodge said:

Mitrovic loan fee was supposedly around £600,000 so not the biggest loan fee. But I expect they're probably paying a healthy chunk of his wages if the loan fee is that small. 

Yes they probably are however they showed ambition in Jan, we didn't.

There no arguing that our front two have done very well the problem would come if either got suspended, injured or lost form - there is nobody of note in the current squad to step in and deliver.

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Striker is the glamour position so some fans always want to sign one regardless of need. Though it has to be a 'big name' of course regardless of wages outside our scope and the lessons we have learned from past mistakes.

We have scored 1 more than Cardiff and conceded 14 more. We give away too many bad goals. Quite how that shows we need another striker is not clear to me.

Nor am I sure who of Fammy or Bobby we should drop to accommodate this big name.

Funny old game innit?

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22 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Yes they probably are however they showed ambition in Jan, we didn't.

There no arguing that our front two have done very well the problem would come if either got suspended, injured or lost form - there is nobody of note in the current squad to step in and deliver.

If you're talking at healthy wage for Mitrovic that's probably at least £30,000 a week, but what happens if one of Bobby and Fam didn't get injured etc? I doubt Mitrovic would have wanted to come to us to sit on the bench. As for the part about if one did get injured, suspended etc then we could always go back to playing Paterson in his free role behind, or the 4141 that worked well against Fulham. 

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Think they thought Pisano would be back earlier than he was.

Also not sure if Taylor was injured in jan, but guess they thought they had enough cover there.

i wanted more in January tbh, but we don’t know who they went after that didn’t come off

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mitrovic Newcastle > Fulham.

We could've done with another goalscorer of course, even if it was one who could've made an impact from the bench.

But for me the massive omission was a RB, all the more confusing given LJ stated back in October he would likely be looking to the loan market for one. 

I think the full back positions have cost us badly this season. Mags/Wright not good enough. New LB would've meant Bryan could push forward to LM, his best position IMO

Yep this is spot on. We could have had a deal in place to loan in a RB on the first of january. Pisano is quality but here we are 10 days into March and he has played 60 minutes of football. Could have had someone in there for a good 10 games already and allowing Pisano some u23 matches. It was our biggest failing even with as well as Wright has played there. 

Sure Kent and Diony have been underwhelming but at least the had some form of pedigree. I can excuse them not fitting in because frankly, I think before seeing them play, most were happy with the acquisitions on paper. Walsh was also good young cover for our 3 CM with a view for the futire. In hindsight, not a great window but at the time seemed good business outside of not bringing in a RB.  

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My take on the goal scoring all season and the porous defence since Christmas is:-

Goals scored. The two strikers have done their job so far this season. Plus those scored by Flint and Bryan. 

Leaves the deficiency in midfield. Goals from that department are as rare as snow in the Bahamas. 

Now the goals conceded. Some of this must be attributed to the constant changes of personnel due to injurues and suspensions. But how much responsibility are the midfielders? I believe too much. The times they are all caught too far forward is very noticeable. And then a lack of pace could also be a factor. 

I'm now open to be shot down. 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Alexander Mitrovic - 23 - joined Fulham on loan from Newcastle (didn’t realise he was that young!)

Loan fee £unknown, wages £significant but how much are Fulham paying

Starts: 5, Subs: 2, Goals: 5, Assists: 0 (W5, D2, L0 played a very big part)

 

Derby signed Cameron Jerome

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28 minutes ago, Murraysrightplum said:

Think they thought Pisano would be back earlier than he was.

Also not sure if Taylor was injured in jan, but guess they thought they had enough cover there.

i wanted more in January tbh, but we don’t know who they went after that didn’t come off

We've needed cover at right back since before the season even started . 

I don't buy your argument I'm afraid. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bobby Bollax said:

Derby signed Cameron Jerome

Yes, that’s the one, knew there was one.

Cameron Jerome - 31, signed from Norwich on 16/1

£1.5m fee and £substantial wages, maybe too rich for us.

Starts: 4, Subs:5, Goals: 1, Assists: 0 (P9, W1, D6, L2 not helped improve their run, his debut versus City when they were second)

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Not many proven strikers would’ve come knowing they’d be behind Reid and Diedhiou in the pecking order though. Diony and Kent have worsened us a team though imo. 

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A bit off topic as more to do with defence that strikers...but strangely it seems like the versatility of our players (Bryan, Wright, Mags, Korey, Bobby) has worked against us with regards to new signings.

Lots of players can ‘do a job’ in other positions and that’s probably why LJ didn’t prioritise a RB.

If those players weren’t as flexible he would of had to bring someone in. Catch 22

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Think just a right back would've done for me. Vyner needed games but there was no excuse not to bring in a short term replacement there while Pisano was getting back to fitness.

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mitrovic Newcastle > Fulham.

We could've done with another goalscorer of course, even if it was one who could've made an impact from the bench.

But for me the massive omission was a RB, all the more confusing given LJ stated back in October he would likely be looking to the loan market for one. 

I think the full back positions have cost us badly this season. Mags/Wright not good enough. New LB would've meant Bryan could push forward to LM, his best position IMO

With hindsight I think these comments about a new RB are fair.

But as always, we never know who were in for and who we might have missed out on. 

You can then add the argument that Wright was doing a solid job back there, especially during our good pre-Christmas run, which everyone has seemed to forget. Plus we had Pisano returning and cover from Brownhill or Korey in emergency. Then you also accommodate Wright, Flint and Baker for now....

The reality is it’s panned out that Bailey Wright got injured, playing through a niggle or two, and Brownhill has had to stay wide right as Kent and Paterson have not found any form out there recently. Had we had a solid wide right player, I wouldn’t have been surprised to see Brownhill play a few more games at RB till Pisano returns, although I’d prefer to have him further forwards obviously.

The same thing applies to LB - Bryan has lost form, he was pre Christmas, the best LB in the league. Now everyone forgets and a few mistakes and poor games and they say he should be a more attacking player. I’m not 100% sure about that yet. In front of him recently has been either Kent or Pato, two players who as I said are not in form and have, especially Pato, let the team down defensively.

But I’m sure with hindsight the club would have loaned a RB. What’s become clear over the last few months is that we don’t have the squad depth of quality we all thought we might have, with several squad players either making no impact or making mistake after mistake.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Think just a right back would've done for me. Vyner needed games but there was no excuse not to bring in a short term replacement there while Pisano was getting back to fitness.

Vyner is a centre back though isn't he ? 

So not only does he lack experience but also some want to put square pegs in round holes.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just throwing some stats out there.

Of the proven goalscorer names touted in the window how have they done...some subjectivity too:

Benik Afobe - 25 - joined Wolves on loan from Bournemouth on 31/1

Loan deal rumoured to be £2m, wages possibly too rich for us on top of that loan fee

Starts: 0, Subs: 6, Goals 1, Assists: 0 (W3, D2, L1 although not a huge contribution to that)

Gary Madine - 27 - joined Cardiff from Bolton on 31/1

Transfer fee widely reported as £6m, wages I expect in our structure

Starts: 4, Subs: 0, Goals: 0, Assists: 1 (W3, D1, L0 played his part)

Lewis Grabban - 30 - joined Villa on loan from Bournemouth on 31/1 having been on loan at Sunderlsnd

Loan Deal £unknown, wages rumoured to be £50-60k, although not sure how much Villa are paying - probably out of range

Starts: 2, Subs:3, Goals: 3, Assists: 0 (W3, D1, L1 significant part played)

How much game time would they have got against our two....ignoring Diony who hasn’t done enough to get in this post!

Bobby Reid - 25 - homegrown

No fee and likely low wages 

Starts: 7, Subs: 0, Goals: 5, Assists: 2 (W1, D3, L3)

Famara Diedhiou - 25 - signed from our "French Feeder" club Angers for £5.3m in the summer

Wages likely to be in the top third at our club but not excessive

Starts: 7, Subs: 0, Goals: 4, Assists: 0 (W1, D3, L3)

My view is that the vast majority on this forum wanted a Striker (a proven one at that) and a Right Back as priority.  Walsh was a "ready now" but you’re going to have to fight Smith and Pack.

The return on Diedhiou has seen our front two combine for 9 of our 11 goals (Brownhill and Flint getting the others).  Whereas we have scored throughout the team this season, perhaps since Xmas, it’s been a bit left to our front two.  11 goals in 7 games does not point to a problem up front.  10 conceded in 7 is probably 3 too many going into the run in....and perhaps had we gone and got the RB we needed it maybe different. One clean sheet in 7....Wright had been playing with a niggle for 3/4 games, and Pisano returns.  I’m not saying it would’ve been easy to bring in a RB, and imagine spending £3-4m on one....and then telling Pisano, he’s not gonna start, when he’s been working so hard to get fit and moved his family over lock, stock and barrel to be first choice.  His performances have shown he is quality.

Perhaps Vyner going on loan before we knew the injury return date was the mistake?

Interested in your views.

Was there another ‘proven’ striker I missed (not Chris Martin)?

 

 

Why did you put Reid and Diedhiou on the list who were not January signings, but you didn't include Diony?!

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7 minutes ago, mozo said:

Why did you put Reid and Diedhiou on the list who were not January signings, but you didn't include Diony?!

Read the sentence before Bobby Reid.

I’m kinda asking did we actually need a striker? 

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R.E Diony - something I’ve been thinking about.

MA alluded to the fact that Diony had been on the radar before his move from Dijon to Saint-Ettiene.

We probably did scouting and due diligence on him then, after the same season Famara scored 9 goals for Angers, when he scored 11 for Dijon, before him becoming too expensive with his move to ASSE.

It’s clear now we relied, or hoped that we were getting the pre-ASSE Diony. A gamble for sure, one that looks like it won’t pay off.

Perhaps we underestimated that gamble, what with Taylor being out and Djuric taking longer to return than expected. 

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16 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

R.E Diony - something I’ve been thinking about.

MA alluded to the fact that Diony had been on the radar before his move from Dijon to Saint-Ettiene.

We probably did scouting and due diligence on him then, after the same season Famara scored 9 goals for Angers, when he scored 11 for Dijon, before him becoming too expensive with his move to ASSE.

It’s clear now we relied, or hoped that we were getting the pre-ASSE Diony. A gamble for sure, one that looks like it won’t pay off.

Perhaps we underestimated that gamble, what with Taylor being out and Djuric taking longer to return than expected. 

That's an interesting angle on the Diony story and it makes even more sense that we should sign him on loan as soon as it became possible. I still maintain he was a good signing if you ignore the games he has played for City - basically ignore anything learnt since he arrived.

He was fairly prolific, clearly worth a few quid, no injury issues, offered something different and had played with Diedhiou - often useful to have a friend/countryman within the club.

It seems unlikely that we'll keep him but I don't blame anyone at the club for signing him on loan.

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34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Read the sentence before Bobby Reid.

I’m kinda asking did we actually need a striker? 

I don't disagree with you. It just seems like the science of your post isn't quite right

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4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mitrovic Newcastle > Fulham.

We could've done with another goalscorer of course, even if it was one who could've made an impact from the bench.

But for me the massive omission was a RB, all the more confusing given LJ stated back in October he would likely be looking to the loan market for one. 

I think the full back positions have cost us badly this season. Mags/Wright not good enough. New LB would've meant Bryan could push forward to LM, his best position IMO

This all day.

To be fair to Wright though, I don’t think he thinks he’s a RB either, but due to Pisano’s awful availability record, the baffling decision to send Vyner out on loan & no replacement signed, he has given it his best shot there.

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55 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Vyner is a centre back though isn't he ? 

So not only does he lack experience but also some want to put square pegs in round holes.

That's what I'm saying, he needed games, and even if he could play right back, it made more sense for him to go out on loan to get that experience.

The failure to sign a right back is a glaring omission, but I assume we were in for someone at some point.

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2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

That's what I'm saying, he needed games, and even if he could play right back, it made more sense for him to go out on loan to get that experience.

The failure to sign a right back is a glaring omission, but I assume we were in for someone at some point.

So he goes on loan to Plymouth & where has he played in their last two games?

Right back!

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1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

Not many proven strikers would’ve come knowing they’d be behind Reid and Diedhiou in the pecking order though. Diony and Kent have worsened us a team though imo. 

Think that is a bit harsh on Diony. He hasn’t looked very good but has had few minutes in our truly best team and with XI men. A good 40-45 minutes have been with 10 on the pitch. So a good 25% of his minutes with us. Plus don’t think he will have been in a football match like the Cardiff game before. I’d really like to see him partner Reid before I decide about him. Not that it should just be given to him just think he hasn’t been done many favours in terms of circumstance. 

With Kent he has had loads if minutes and starts and not done much good. Frequently forgets to track his man either by lack of focus or just not caring. Seems selfish either wanting to score or play a silly killer ball looking for “end product” which I think he openly says. He was a signing I didn’t really get as we still had options on the wings especially with Diedhiou coming back allowing Pato to move to the wing. Could have utilised Bryan further forward as well. 

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Also don’t forget Djuric who played for u23s recently. If he’s fit and firing he’ll be a great option I believe we haven’t seen anything like his best yet. 

RB we could’ve got a loan in maybe but who? Especially knowing Eros was nearing a comeback they might have quickly become an expensive bench warmer. 

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39 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

That's what I'm saying, he needed games, and even if he could play right back, it made more sense for him to go out on loan to get that experience.

The failure to sign a right back is a glaring omission, but I assume we were in for someone at some point.

Never assume . It makes an ' ass ' out of ' u ' and ' me '.

 

 

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Some interesting points in this thread regarding the full backs and Diony. For me one of the biggest problems has been the loss of COD and the way we have had to change as a team. With COD in front of Bryan we are much more able to hassle and hurry the opposition down that side. Likewise, Brownhill in front of Pisano strikes me as being fairly solid. With these two in the side our team together plays very differently than with Wright and Magnússon occupying these positions. Joe Bryan being pushed forward on the left doesn't work for me either, as his pressing and tracking back are both far too inconsistent. 

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2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

We've needed cover at right back since before the season even started . 

I don't buy your argument I'm afraid. 

 

 

Agree but the decision in January was based on flint and baker being the CB pairing and Wright decent at RB, albeit exposed at times, with Pisano to return shortly. Maybe they thought they had enough. I don’t agree with the decision but there we go

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

I don't disagree with you. It just seems like the science of your post isn't quite right

Making the case that since the transfer window ended our 2 guys have scored plenty, and no worse than any of the so-called proven strikers who would’ve cost us money have.

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1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

That's what I'm saying, he needed games, and even if he could play right back, it made more sense for him to go out on loan to get that experience.

The failure to sign a right back is a glaring omission, but I assume we were in for someone at some point.

It only made sense because our manager didn't trust him.  He got away with moving Smith there when Wright was suspended.  Viner should only have gone when we secured someone instead. Major error

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