Academy success

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

https://planning.n-somerset.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=neighbourComments&keyVal=P0SKSYLP02J00

Have a look why people are supporting this. Lots of comments wanting community use 

An opportunity to provide a stunning facility for the use of the local community should be supported.

I have read it, and I'm sure everyone wants something for nothing. Personally I think City already does engage with the wider community, and whilst it could clearly do more, there is no reason why it needs to be at this particular facility.

Just my view and I appreciate others see it differently.

[DavidNoble]

On 19/03/2018 at 14:47, nebristolred said:

As far as I can tell the last match where we didn't have an academy player play at any point in the 90 minutes will have been the 3-0 defeat away at Rotherham on 28th November 2015 - which is 112 league games ago, and 129 games ago including cup competitions.

On the day of that defeat to Rotherham, Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid and Max O'Leary were all unused substitutes.

Very interesting! So we still had academy graduates in the match day squad... when was the last game that we didn't have any academy graduates in the match day squad at all?

[The Fat Controller]

19 minutes ago, DavidNoble said:

Very interesting! So we still had academy graduates in the match day squad... when was the last game that we didn't have any academy graduates in the match day squad at all?

I'd guess there'd be a game towards the end of the season that Skuse left when neither he nor Carey were in the squad, but before Joe Bryan and Wes Burns regularly started making the squad. 

But I'm damned if im gonna check back through 4 or 5 seasons aorth of teams for that. 

[Cowshed]

14 hours ago, Loon plage said:

Good response mate.

I do understand how it works, I just dislike the automatic planning gain approach. As you say many of the objectors are self serving.

I would personally prefer City to make facilities and personnel available voluntarily rather than as a planning condition, and i'm sure that they do just that for the benefit of the wider community. It just doesn't have to be this facility in my view.

I coach for a charity and  one of Bristol's biggest junior clubs ... I will bite my tongue here ... It is in my post history. 

Bristol City need their own facility to further what they do. Other clubs do this via their academies and training facilities. If not at this proposed facility when and where!

[nebristolred]

12 hours ago, DavidNoble said:

Very interesting! So we still had academy graduates in the match day squad... when was the last game that we didn't have any academy graduates in the match day squad at all?

 

12 hours ago, Chris_Brown said:

I'd guess there'd be a game towards the end of the season that Skuse left when neither he nor Carey were in the squad, but before Joe Bryan and Wes Burns regularly started making the squad. 

But I'm damned if im gonna check back through 4 or 5 seasons aorth of teams for that. 

Exactly! It was relatively easy to check that stat as either Reid or Bryan have played most games in the past few seasons, so I just had to check the games they didn't play in. Prior to that it gets more murky and would literally have to check every game.

[nebristolred]

13 hours ago, DavidNoble said:

Very interesting! So we still had academy graduates in the match day squad... when was the last game that we didn't have any academy graduates in the match day squad at all?

 

On 19/03/2018 at 14:47, nebristolred said:

As far as I can tell the last match where we didn't have an academy player play at any point in the 90 minutes will have been the 3-0 defeat away at Rotherham on 28th November 2015 - which is 112 league games ago, and 129 games ago including cup competitions.

On the day of that defeat to Rotherham, Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid and Max O'Leary were all unused substitutes.

So I think the last time we fielded a whole matchday squad without an academy graduate would be the 1-0 home loss to Sheffield United under Sean O'Driscoll on 23rd November 2013. Which I think is 221 league games ago, and 237 games ago including cup competitions.

Lineup that day was:
Parish, Moloney, Cunningham, Pack, Flint, Osborne, Wagstaff, Elliott, Baldock, Emmanuel-Thomas, Shorey
Subs: Fielding, Williams, Taylor, Harewood, Brundle, McLaughlin, Gillett

I did think Brundle might be an academy graduate but turns out he was a free signing from Yeovil. We lost 1-0 thanks to an own goal from a certain Aden Flint.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I coach for a charity and  one of Bristol's biggest junior clubs ... I will bite my tongue here ... It is in my post history. 

Bristol City need their own facility to further what they do. Other clubs do this via their academies and training facilities. If not at this proposed facility when and where!

Do you also think the private schools that have facilities in the Failand area should open them for community use?

Or perhaps they do already?

Once the Facility is in use then presumably SGS will be available (unless Rovers move from the Community facility they already use).

what demand is there for such facilities from locals, it's not exactly an over populated area, presumably transport of some kind would need to be provided?

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, nebristolred said:

 

So I think the last time we fielded a whole matchday squad without an academy graduate would be the 1-0 home loss to Sheffield United under Sean O'Driscoll on 23rd November 2013. Which I think is 221 league games ago, and 237 games ago including cup competitions.

Lineup that day was:
Parish, Moloney, Cunningham, Pack, Flint, Osborne, Wagstaff, Elliott, Baldock, Emmanuel-Thomas, Shorey
Subs: Fielding, Williams, Taylor, Harewood, Brundle, McLaughlin, Gillett

I did think Brundle might be an academy graduate but turns out he was a free signing from Yeovil. We lost 1-0 thanks to an own goal from a certain Aden Flint.

I’m not exaggerating, but that was the worst game of professional football I’ve ever watched.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not exaggerating, but that was the worst game of professional football I’ve ever watched.

Couldn't agree more, it was the most cowardly display by a City team I can ever remember, absolutely no interest in winning the game.

So far as I was concerned SOD was a dead man walking after that game.

[Cowshed]

43 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Do you also think the private schools that have facilities in the Failand area should open them for community use?

Or perhaps they do already?

Once the Facility is in use then presumably SGS will be available (unless Rovers move from the Community facility they already use).

what demand is there for such facilities from locals, it's not exactly an over populated area, presumably transport of some kind would need to be provided?

Come the revolution yes in answer to your question.

However a football academy cannot be likened to BGS/QEH. The entrance exam in football terms knows no socio economic boundary. The academy takes kids of local clubs. FC and academy can give back a little more. Its a symbiotic relationship. See my point about sharing coaching and ideas for the good of club and comunity.

SGS is the other side of the City. There is always a demand for sports facilities and quality football coaching. BS3 is also in that locality  Not everybody (many) in that area can afford no1 football academy at the David Llyod centre or afford membership of the centre.

Transport ... Going off at a tangent a little ... Parents were generally driving to the Community trust now closed post school coaching sessions around the City ... Sorry I do not quite get the point there.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Come the revolution yes in answer to your question.

However a football academy cannot be likened to BGS/QEH. The entrance exam in football terms knows no socio economic boundary. The academy takes kids of local clubs. FC and academy can give back a little more. Its a symbiotic relationship. See my point about sharing coaching and ideas for the good of club and comunity.

SGS is the other side of the City. There is always a demand for sports facilities and quality football coaching. BS3 is also in that locality  Not everybody (many) in that area can afford no1 football academy at the David Llyod centre or afford membership of the centre.

Transport ... Going off at a tangent a little ... Parents were generally driving to the Community trust now closed post school coaching sessions around the City ... Sorry I do not quite get the point there.

Why can't it be likened to a private school, they give opportunities to children who are clever, but whose families are poor. They serve the locals communities, providing jobs, both directly and indirectly, I don't see the councils insisting those schools open their doors.

The academy takes kids from up to sixty miles away, unless I'm mistaken, so it isn't just local kids.

Should the academy provide facilities to the communities those children are part of?

My point about transport is that unless those who want to use the facility can get there,  there is no point or demand in providing it.

I'm unaware what facilities are available in BS3 and wether they are adequate or not,  the proposed training ground is many miles away, as is SGS, I really can't see why a demand to share facilities should be accommodated or why it should fall solely on the private company that is Bristol City to do so in a location that is remote not just from BS3 but from the whole of Bristol.

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities are already underused, perhaps the local councils would be better served coordinating the existing facilities rather than imposing unnecessary constraints on the club.

[BCFC11]

On 18/03/2018 at 22:18, DavidNoble said:

Just seen the gas tweeted this before their Plymouth game:

NEWS:

Today’s first team fixture against #PlymouthArgyle will be the 250th consecutive league game to have an Academy developed player on the pitch.

The last fixture to not see an Academy player feature was back in December 2012!

#WeProduceOurOwn

 

with our recent academy successes im wondering if we have a similar stat?

bryan, reid, vyner, golbourne, burns, skuse, Carey etc have all featured over recent years...

Shame for them that none of them are ever any good.

[Cowshed]

14 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Why can't it be likened to a private school, they give opportunities to children who are clever, but whose families are poor. They serve the locals communities, providing jobs, both directly and indirectly, I don't see the councils insisting those schools open their doors.

The academy takes kids from up to sixty miles away, unless I'm mistaken, so it isn't just local kids.

Should the academy provide facilities to the communities those children are part of?

My point about transport is that unless those who want to use the facility can get there,  there is no point or demand in providing it.

I'm unaware what facilities are available in BS3 and wether they are adequate or not,  the proposed training ground is many miles away, as is SGS, I really can't see why a demand to share facilities should be accommodated or why it should fall solely on the private company that is Bristol City to do so in a location that is remote not just from BS3 but from the whole of Bristol.

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities are already underused, perhaps the local councils would be better served coordinating the existing facilities rather than imposing unnecessary constraints on the club.

BGS and QEH give opportunity to kids whose parents can afford fourteen to fifteen thousands pounds a year, and pass the exam.  The also offer sports scholarships .. To the superhuman. 

You are not mistaken, however that was not the point made. Bristol City's academy obviously has a symbiotic relationship with the City bearing that name. There is no eighty mile radius anymore.

The next question is no. However academies like Man City and Chelsea do host teams from Bristol Inner City.  They do invite junior coaches from Bristol to look at what they do.

I still do not understand your point about transport. Its hardly a pole. One of Bristol City's centres for the Community trust at Keynsham was used by kids from Bristol. 

Bristol City is a football club. It is no private company in a normal sense.  

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities  ... I would suggest you read then link and see what Bristol City fans are writing in favour of this proposed development. Every page is offering support to a facility that can be accessed by the community. 

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities are already underused ... As a coach of a decade , as somebody who works to improve sporting opportunities for the disadvantaged, I would politely suggest to somebody who is unaware of what facilities are in BS3 (look wider) you do that research, and also research what other clubs do with their academies. 

Also with respect research how many schools can offer their kids the opportunity to play football. Many have no pitches. Kids from many schools at the recent EFL cup held at the South Bristol Sports centre at years five and six had played next to no football. Their schools have no teams. Sport to schools is not a priority when they have to make cuts. That is the reality.

This facility when built will not be used 24/7 by the academy. A limited (it can be an hour a day) community use agreement would be a positive for both the club and community. A responsible, spirited and principled positive for a FC with Community as one its pillars. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Do you also think the private schools that have facilities in the Failand area should open them for community use?

Or perhaps they do already?

 

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Come the revolution yes in answer to your question.

However a football academy cannot be likened to BGS/QEH. The entrance exam in football terms knows no socio economic boundary. The academy takes kids of local clubs. FC and academy can give back a little more. Its a symbiotic relationship. See my point about sharing coaching and ideas for the good of club and comunity.

 

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

BGS and QEH give opportunity to kids whose parents can afford fourteen to fifteen thousands pounds a year, and pass the exam.  The also offer sports scholarships .. To the superhuman. 

Back in the day, prior to the 1974 Labour Government, there was a system known as Direct Grant Grammar Schools, where parental income (or lack thereof) was no barrier to entry - I speak from personal experience.

BGS, QEH and, in fact, Bristol Cathedral also (especially if you could sing ) provided not only an excellent education, but also wonderful sporting opportunities.

Alas, in an effort to provide equality to all, Direct Grant Grammar Schools were abolished and standards dropped so that everybody was equal....

I believe it is called progress .

 

[Lrrr]

Not sure there would be any chance of community involvement really, the footballing reasons being academies are normally busy enough as they are, add that we'd have our U23's and first team around as well. But really the problems occur for non footballing reasons when you've then got the potential problem of having anyone walking around if its open to community use which the club can't keep track of. If its City only then you know anyone around is there because of something to do with the club/parents of kids. When kids are involved this would be a big point of contention too for not being able to keep track of who is on premises. 

[Cowshed]

4 minutes ago, hodge said:

Not sure there would be any chance of community involvement really, the footballing reasons being academies are normally busy enough as they are, add that we'd have our U23's and first team around as well. But really the problems occur for non footballing reasons when you've then got the potential problem of having anyone walking around if its open to community use which the club can't keep track of. If its City only then you know anyone around is there because of something to do with the club/parents of kids. When kids are involved this would be a big point of contention too for not being able to keep track of who is on premises. 

At Manchester City the facilities are used at an agreed time to x amount of people. It is not besieged. Manchester City also allow use of their catering facilities for parents. Kids are  supervised by- refs/coaches and parents/family/teachers etc are allowed into designated areas. You sign in and you sign out. It is not problematic.

Chelsea is similar. No catering.

And Southampton.

Bristol Rovers ... Bugger all to use and not much to see.

[Mr X]

22 hours ago, Cowshed said:

BGS and QEH give opportunity to kids whose parents can afford fourteen to fifteen thousands pounds a year, and pass the exam.  The also offer sports scholarships .. To the superhuman. 

You are not mistaken, however that was not the point made. Bristol City's academy obviously has a symbiotic relationship with the City bearing that name. There is no eighty mile radius anymore.

The next question is no. However academies like Man City and Chelsea do host teams from Bristol Inner City.  They do invite junior coaches from Bristol to look at what they do.

I still do not understand your point about transport. Its hardly a pole. One of Bristol City's centres for the Community trust at Keynsham was used by kids from Bristol. 

Bristol City is a football club. It is no private company in a normal sense.  

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities  ... I would suggest you read then link and see what Bristol City fans are writing in favour of this proposed development. Every page is offering support to a facility that can be accessed by the community. 

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities are already underused ... As a coach of a decade , as somebody who works to improve sporting opportunities for the disadvantaged, I would politely suggest to somebody who is unaware of what facilities are in BS3 (look wider) you do that research, and also research what other clubs do with their academies. 

Also with respect research how many schools can offer their kids the opportunity to play football. Many have no pitches. Kids from many schools at the recent EFL cup held at the South Bristol Sports centre at years five and six had played next to no football. Their schools have no teams. Sport to schools is not a priority when they have to make cuts. That is the reality.

This facility when built will not be used 24/7 by the academy. A limited (it can be an hour a day) community use agreement would be a positive for both the club and community. A responsible, spirited and principled positive for a FC with Community as one its pillars. 

Both schools offer a significant number of either reduced price or free places to kids who come from a financially poor background! It's only those kids that come from a richer family that have to pay full whack. 

[bpexile]

On 20/03/2018 at 21:26, Loon plage said:

Developed by the famous Senrab then West Ham before being released and getting picked up by Rovers aged 18, so whilst they would typically claim him as a "product" he was anything but.

This isn't a criticism of the post but for me there's too many grey areas within the "product" & "graduate" claims. Why don't we just enjoy the fact that young players can make the grade if they put the work in.

[redapple]

On 23/03/2018 at 11:32, nebristolred said:

 

So I think the last time we fielded a whole matchday squad without an academy graduate would be the 1-0 home loss to Sheffield United under Sean O'Driscoll on 23rd November 2013. Which I think is 221 league games ago, and 237 games ago including cup competitions.

Lineup that day was:
Parish, Moloney, Cunningham, Pack, Flint, Osborne, Wagstaff, Elliott, Baldock, Emmanuel-Thomas, Shorey
Subs: Fielding, Williams, Taylor, Harewood, Brundle, McLaughlin, Gillett

I did think Brundle might be an academy graduate but turns out he was a free signing from Yeovil. We lost 1-0 thanks to an own goal from a certain Aden Flint.

I think that was probably the worst game ever in the whole history of football. 

[JBFC II]

On 3/23/2018 at 21:10, Cowshed said:

BGS and QEH give opportunity to kids whose parents can afford fourteen to fifteen thousands pounds a year, and pass the exam.  The also offer sports scholarships .. To the superhuman. 

You are not mistaken, however that was not the point made. Bristol City's academy obviously has a symbiotic relationship with the City bearing that name. There is no eighty mile radius anymore.

The next question is no. However academies like Man City and Chelsea do host teams from Bristol Inner City.  They do invite junior coaches from Bristol to look at what they do.

I still do not understand your point about transport. Its hardly a pole. One of Bristol City's centres for the Community trust at Keynsham was used by kids from Bristol. 

Bristol City is a football club. It is no private company in a normal sense.  

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities  ... I would suggest you read then link and see what Bristol City fans are writing in favour of this proposed development. Every page is offering support to a facility that can be accessed by the community. 

I would suggest that if you take a look around you will find many public facilities are already underused ... As a coach of a decade , as somebody who works to improve sporting opportunities for the disadvantaged, I would politely suggest to somebody who is unaware of what facilities are in BS3 (look wider) you do that research, and also research what other clubs do with their academies. 

Also with respect research how many schools can offer their kids the opportunity to play football. Many have no pitches. Kids from many schools at the recent EFL cup held at the South Bristol Sports centre at years five and six had played next to no football. Their schools have no teams. Sport to schools is not a priority when they have to make cuts. That is the reality.

This facility when built will not be used 24/7 by the academy. A limited (it can be an hour a day) community use agreement would be a positive for both the club and community. A responsible, spirited and principled positive for a FC with Community as one its pillars. 

Being a pupil at qeh, and having been brought up by a single mother on a small salary, your first point is completely incorrect, the school offers highly subsidised and free places to those who are bright but can't afford the fees (think they got confused with me haha). That being said, it is only to a minority and many at my school are very rich... 

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Being a pupil at qeh, and having been brought up by a single mother on a small salary, your first point is completely incorrect, the school offers highly subsidised and free places to those who are bright but can't afford the fees (think they got confused with me haha). That being said, it is only to a minority and many at my school are very rich... 

My Son is at QEH. The cost was covered by a remortgaged house. Yes its a very small minority in a small (brilliant) school for mainly Sons (and a few older Daughters now) of the affluent, which does not render my point null and void.

[JBFC II]

11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

My Son is at QEH. The cost was covered by a remortgaged house. Yes its a very small minority in a small (brilliant) school for mainly Sons (and a few older Daughters now) of the affluent, which does not render my point null and void.

I never said your point was null and void, it is just you were giving the impression that the school only allows boys (or girls...) who can afford the 14000 a year to get in, unless you are exceptionally good at sport, which isn't the case.